Is it just me or have SF vanished?

armaghlad · 08-05-2020 09:58PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There is definitely an undercurrent there with SF. Don't mind what it says on the SF website. Many vote SF because they don't want the immigrants coming in and Vadradkar is an Indian Fággot anyway etc.
Ties in with the true Gael guff - freedom and so on.

I remember the people of Ardoyne, republican stronghold welcoming with open arms Syrian refugees. There are Syrian kids playing for GAA clubs in west Belfast. SF MPs in both constituencies. Some undercurrent there alright

armaghlad · 08-05-2020 09:59PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There is definitely an undercurrent there with SF. Don't mind what it says on the SF website. Many vote SF because they don't want the immigrants coming in and Vadradkar is an Indian Fággot anyway etc.
Ties in with the true Gael guff - freedom and so on.

I remember the people of Ardoyne, republican stronghold welcoming with open arms Syrian refugees. There are Syrian kids playing for GAA clubs in west Belfast. SF MPs in both constituencies. Some undercurrent there alright

08-05-2020 10:18PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

^^

Surprise Surprise. Another long ramble of a post.

What has his killing got to do with a SF thread. Work it out yourself.

I do find it terrible the best you could come up with for SF was they sat in opposition, even the PBP numties got things done in the short time they where in government. Must be fairly deflating to spend all your time defending a party who have done nothing in 30 years for Ireland. But you keep supporting them, I am sure they will come good soon, maybe sometime around 2050

When were PBP in government?

McMurphy · 08-05-2020 10:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When were PBP in government?

PBP ministers.....

**Gets popcorn**

This will be epic, even better than the ceann comhairle boo-boo.

08-05-2020 10:46PM

McMurphy wrote: »

PHP ministers.....

**Gets popcorn**

This will be epic, even better than the ceann comhairle boo-boo.

Like its unfathomable the level of stupid involved....but now his mistake,will somehow be a SF conspiracy

Shefwedfan · 08-05-2020 11:21PM

McMurphy wrote: »

PHP ministers.....

**Gets popcorn**

This will be epic, even better than the ceann comhairle boo-boo.

It’s 11 on a Friday, that’s the most pathetic post I have ever seen

Leave you to it lads, work it out for yourselves

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 01:54AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well like your free to not believe it....but there is zero evidence to support your inane ramblings here (but your free to believe them,and thats ok too)

from forgienpolicy.com

See below:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/29652064_Why_is_there_no_Radical_Right_Party_in_Ireland

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 02:05AM

armaghlad wrote: »

I remember the people of Ardoyne, republican stronghold welcoming with open arms Syrian refugees. There are Syrian kids playing for GAA clubs in west Belfast. SF MPs in both constituencies. Some undercurrent there alright

Well it is not like that in Dublin take a visit to Balbriggan (Dublin Fingal) and Louise O'Reilly topped the poll there.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/people-before-profit-candidate-blasts-racist-facebook-post-mocking-his-name-976486.html

09-05-2020 08:44AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

See below:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/29652064_Why_is_there_no_Radical_Right_Party_in_Ireland

Indeed

This paper argues that that this is because the ‘space’ usually occupied by such parties - for young, poor people disaffected by economic change - is taken up by Sinn Féin, which though it has similarities to radical right parties, differs markedly in its attitudes to immigrants.

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 11:49AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So there isn't anything on the website saying this stuff...there isn't a single SF policy in existence that is designed to 'stop immigrants coming in', in fact they spend a lot of time doing the opposite and calling for reform of Direct Provision etc, and one Councillor goes off on an incoherent waffle (did he use that F word to describe Leo?...I don't think he did) and it is an 'undercurrent with SF' and 'many vote for them because they don't want immigrants coming in'?

You don't require a lot of proof do you? You seem to have a bit of a problem with exaggeration actually (e.g The 'F' word)

That is all for show on the SF website trying to get the middle ground more educated to vote for them. If you actually talk to the majority of the SF core vote they are all for increased social welfare but not as long as 'the foreigners' don't get it. That type of talk. Proud Irish people.

As is said in the article attached below.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/29652064_Why_is_there_no_Radical_Right_Party_in_Ireland

And attached for download.

It describes SF as the tolerant party with intolerant supporters.

"The argument is not that Sinn Féin is an anti-immigrant party in
disguise rather that its anti-establishment position and its radical nationalism might be attractive to the type of voter who in another country, with a different nationalist past, might support a radical right-wing party"

"Sinn Féin votes in the last three elections which are very much in line with what are usually called radical or extreme right parties. Sinn Féin’s voters are (statistically and substantively) significantly more likely to be working class. There is an obvious and strong relationship with age. Support among the young is four times higher than among pensioners."

--

There many in the SF core vote especially in working class areas who think like this in my personal experience. So I believe the study is definitely on to something.
If you look at how the actual far right parties performed

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cRMr-UKxXikJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-far-right-candidates-put-in-dismal-showing-1.4169078+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

Surely it means that the far right vote/leaning went somewhere else? And who got the most rise in the 2020 election? SF and the 'protest vote'.

I am not the only one who thinks that SF is a left wing party in name - but has right wing traits.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-rhetoric-is-dangerous-and-its-exclusion-from-power-is-justified-1.4164037?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fsinn-f%25C3%25A9in-s-rhetoric-is-dangerous-and-its-exclusion-from-power-is-justified-1.4164037

Shefwedfan · 09-05-2020 12:02PM

If you want to see about SF and “da foreigner”....how long was MLM on the LLS before she got a dig in about the Keeling workers

It’s an undercurrent that run through the party and supporters

Not saying it’s not in other parties by the way

The issue with Keeling was nothing to do with social distancing, it was that “da foreigner” was working in Ireland

Not that the people in Ireland that should be working for Kelling would ever do it, too easy sitting on the social

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 12:10PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you want to see about SF and “da foreigner”....how long was MLM on the LLS before she got a dig in about the Keeling workers

It’s an undercurrent that run through the party and supporters

Not saying it’s not in other parties by the way

The issue with Keeling was nothing to do with social distancing, it was that “da foreigner” was working in Ireland

Not that the people in Ireland that should be working for Kelling would ever do it, too easy sitting on the social

Yeah someone else posted a thread about social distancing on boards.ie, gave out about Keelings etc, then proceeded to say Travellers in Ireland could go where they like. And people from NI can go wherever they like in the ROI.
You could see the them and us mentality.

It is definitely there, in a cohort of the SF vote. Ireland for the Irish etc. But the irony is many of these types hardly speak a word of Gaeilge (I don't know what SF's excuse is for the last 100 years - re- the Irish language). But they want the 'Brits out', and have tattoos of British soccer teams.
While failing to see the irony.

It would be like you having a large tattoo of Sheffield Wednesday while giving out about 'The Brits'. I have no time for them, they are pure eejits looking for a cause with some mystic. A 'gang' effect more than a political party.

FrancieBrady · 09-05-2020 12:23PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah someone else posted a thread about social distancing on boards.ie, gave out about Keelings etc, then proceeded to say Travellers in Ireland could go where they like. And people from NI can go wherever they like in the ROI.
You could see the them and us mentality.

It is definitely there, in a cohort of the SF vote. Ireland for the Irish etc. But the irony is many of these types hardly speak a word of Gaeilge (I don't know what SF's excuse is for the last 100 years - re- the Irish language). But they want the 'Brits out', and have tattoos of British soccer teams.
While failing to see the irony.

It would be like you having a large tattoo of Sheffield Wednesday while giving out about 'The Brits'. I have no time for them, they are pure eejits looking for a cause with some mystic. A 'gang' effect more than a political party.

'Definitely there' but not a single official pronouncement that would point to it being a 'policy' or intention of SF?
In fact you have the exact opposite happening.

It is funny reading.

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 12:24PM

Meanwhile we have SF doing what they do best playing with words.

Has anyone ever noticed that SF never call the Republic of Ireland by it's proper name?

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VdYpqZCxvDMJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/why-sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-will-not-call-the-state-by-its-name-1.4182195+&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

It is always the Southern State or the Free State (when being derogatory). The irony is he DUP often refer to 'The Republic'.

I dunno have SF vanished. But the name the 'Republic of Ireland' might if SF get into power. I suppose they could call it the 26 counties. Amend the ROI 1948 and amend article 4 of the constitution if they ever got in power. I mean Ireland or Eire is not as catchy as the 26 counties/southern state is it?

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 12:30PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Definitely there' but not a single official pronouncement that would point to it being a 'policy' or intention of SF?
In fact you have the exact opposite happening.

It is funny reading.

I never said it was SF policy. If you read the article you can see the writer clearly makes the point that "SF is the tolerant party with intolerant supporters."

If you have ever talked to a flag waving (rough around the edges) SF supporter from a working class area in Dublin - it is clear that there is intolerance there. With the nationalistic rhetoric and so on. And not being fond of the foreigners/other.

Shefwedfan · 09-05-2020 12:31PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah someone else posted a thread about social distancing on boards.ie, gave out about Keelings etc, then proceeded to say Travellers in Ireland could go where they like. And people from NI can go wherever they like in the ROI.
You could see the them and us mentality.

It is definitely there, in a cohort of the SF vote. Ireland for the Irish etc. But the irony is many of these types hardly speak a word of Gaeilge (I don't know what SF's excuse is for the last 100 years - re- the Irish language). But they want the 'Brits out', and have tattoos of British soccer teams.
While failing to see the irony.

It would be like you having a large tattoo of Sheffield Wednesday while giving out about 'The Brits'. I have no time for them, they are pure eejits looking for a cause with some mystic. A 'gang' effect more than a political party.

I laugh about it, hate the English but then support the premiership and travel over all the time....height of stupidity

The Irish language is laughable, SF stopping the government in north over Irish language that 0.2% of the population use in the North. No consideration for the 99.8% of people that need a government

My kids go to irish school, FF and FG politician, plus a couple of independent have assisted in the school, never seen a S.F. person near it

Maybe they are interested somewhere else, I must live in the wrong area

FrancieBrady · 09-05-2020 12:33PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Meanwhile we have SF doing what they do best playing with words.

Has anyone ever noticed that SF never call the Republic of Ireland by it's proper name?

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VdYpqZCxvDMJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/why-sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-will-not-call-the-state-by-its-name-1.4182195+&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

It is always the Southern State or the Free State (when being derogatory). The irony is he DUP often refer to 'The Republic'.

Although this has been debunked before...I'll give you 50 cents if you try really hard to figure out why they have a problem calling each parts of an island that has - in their political view, wrongly and illegitimately been partitioned - the name the whole island should have. Actually I will give you 50 cents and a bag of fizzy sweets if you are quick.

FrancieBrady · 09-05-2020 12:37PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I never said it was SF policy. If you read the article you can see the writer clearly makes the point that "SF is the tolerant party with intolerant supporters."

If you have ever talked to a flag waving (rough around the edges) SF supporter from a working class area in Dublin - it is clear that there is intolerance there. With the nationalistic rhetoric and so on. And not being fond of the foreigners/other.

Can you see why a writer that has a bias might phrase a theory in that way?

Because they don't have to prove it, so giving them the liberty to waffle away at their wee heart's content.

Like, I couldn't care less what some members of Fine Gael think about Same Sex Marriage or Women's Rights as long as they don't legislate those views into laws we all have to obey.

Again...all party's have supporters that are objectionable. If the party is not airing or lobbying for those views...so fecking what?

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 12:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Although this has been debunked before...I'll give you 50 cents if you try really hard to figure out why they have a problem calling each parts of an island that has - in their political view, wrongly and illegitimately been partitioned - the name the whole island should have. Actually I will give you 50 cents and a bag of fizzy sweets if you are quick.

How has it being debunked? SF are always very careful in thier language to the point of comedy. Playing with words. You argue it is because they do not want to appear partitionist - fair enough

But considering during the GE that Mary Lou did not want SF's record in the NI scrutinized. She clearly stated she is from Dublin not 'the North'. I would argue she became defacto partitonist (when it suited her) to deflect from SF's performance in NI. Also, the very fact that SF have two different leaders both North and South is a tactic acceptance of partition.

As for yourself a 'new' dyed in the wool SF supporter - how would you normally refer to the state you live in?
Because SF are going to give themselves fierce headaches

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 12:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you see why a writer that has a bias might phrase a theory in that way?

Because they don't have to prove it, so giving them the liberty to waffle away at their wee heart's content.

Like, I couldn't care less what some members of Fine Gael think about Same Sex Marriage or Women's Rights as long as they don't legislate those views into laws we all have to obey.

Again...all party's have supporters that are objectionable. If the party is not airing or lobbying for those views...so fecking what?

Well from personal experience on 'the ground' with working class SF voters from Dublin - I believe the article rings true.
Also it makes logical sense. Working class area, disenfranchised looking to be anti-establishment.
When you see the comments from the likes of AOS calling Alan Shatter 'Goebbels'. You do not have to dig too deep to find the true face of SF.

FrancieBrady · 09-05-2020 12:51PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How has it being debunked? SF are always very careful in thier language to the point of comedy. Playing with words. You argue it is because they do not want to appear partitionist - fair enough

But considering during the GE that Mary Lou did not want SF's record in the ROI scrutinized. She clearly stated she is from Dublin not the North. I would argue she became defacto partitonist when it suited her to deflect from SF's performance in NI. Also the very fact that SF have two different leaders both North and South is a tactic acceptance of partition.

As for yourself a 'new' dyed in the wool SF supported how would you normally refer to the state you live in?
Because SF are going to give themselves fierce headaches

I refer to the 'Dublin government'...'the island of Ireland', 'NI', 'northern Ireland', A whole multitude of terms depending on the point I am making or to what i am referring.

It was debunked because 'evidence' (you know that stuff you have an aversion to?) was presented of SF using the term at times.

I have no issue whatsoever with them making it known, when appropriate, that the whole island is Ireland.

And thereason why you cannot compare SF in the north and Sf in the south is because they are completely different scenarios and political entities.
It is beyond stupid at this stage that people still do it.

McMurphy · 09-05-2020 12:54PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well from personal experience on 'the ground' with working class SF voters from Dublin - I believe the article rings true.
Also it makes logical sense. Working class area, disenfranchised looking to be anti-establishment.
When you see the comments from the likes of AOS calling Alan Shatter 'Goebbels'. You do not have to dig too deep to find the true face of SF.

Well now, in light of your completely impartial judgemental anecdote, I'm certainly convinced now.

FrancieBrady · 09-05-2020 12:57PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well from personal experience on 'the ground' with working class SF voters from Dublin - I believe the article rings true.
Also it makes logical sense. Working class area, disenfranchised looking to be anti-establishment.
When you see the comments from the likes of AOS calling Alan Shatter 'Goebbels'. You do not have to dig too deep to find the true face of SF.

If somebody called a FGer 'Hitler', would that make them anti-Catholic given he was raised as a Catholic OR would it more likely be the case that they are making a comparison to what Hitler did?

Goebbels was a world infamous Minister for Propaganda...any chance that a man who has never been otherwise found to be anti-semitic may have been using that comparison??? Think hard now.

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 01:01PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I refer to the 'Dublin government'...'the island of Ireland', 'NI', 'northern Ireland', A whole multitude of terms depending on the point I am making or to what i am referring.

It was debunked because 'evidence' (you know that stuff you have an aversion to?) was presented of SF using the term at times.

I have no issue whatsoever with them making it known, when appropriate, that the whole island is Ireland.

And thereason why you cannot compare SF in the north and Sf in the south is because they are completely different scenarios and political entities.
It is beyond stupid at this stage that people still do it.

"completely different scenarios and political entities" - ergo tactic acceptance of partition no mater how you cut it.

So when the covid19 is over and Francie goes on his holidays.
Chatting to a foreigner in some idyllic location

Foreigner: Francie where do you live?

Francie: the 'Island of Ireland'

Foreigner: Oh I love Golf Rory Mcllroy is great. Which part Francie?

Francie: The part run by the Dublin government.

Foreigner: What is the country called?

Francie: Ireland/The 26 Counties/The Free State

Foreigner: Is that all the same place? Is that what it says on your passport?

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 01:06PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If somebody called a FGer 'Hitler', would that make them anti-Catholic given he was raised as a Catholic OR would it more likely be the case that they are making a comparison to what Hitler did?

Goebbels was a world infamous Minister for Propaganda...any chance that a man who has never been otherwise found to be anti-semitic may have been using that comparison??? Think hard now.

You are been deliberately obtuse there Francie. You think hard why AOS said it to Shatter. I will give you a hint his religion begins with J.

The only one in the DE

Also you just have to look at the comments Reada Cronin said and it becomes crystal clear the mindset of SF. The Paddy Hollahan as well.

It plays to the SF electorate.

FrancieBrady · 09-05-2020 01:07PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

"completely different scenarios and political entities" - ergo tactic acceptance of partition no mater how you cut it.

Did the GFA woosh right over your head?

So when the covid19 is over and Francie goes on his holidays.
Chatting to a foreigner in some idyllic location

Foreigner: Francie where do you live?

Francie: the 'Island of Ireland'

Foreigner: Oh I love Golf Rory Mcllroy is great. Which part Francie?

Francie: The part run by the Dublin government.

Foreigner: What is the country called?

Francie: Ireland/The 26 Counties/The Free State

Foreigner: Is that all the same place is that what it says on your passport?

You talk to some odd foreigners...never once have I had to distinguish my country in that way. I use a 'multitude of terms', if i need to refer to the Republic Of Ireland I do...all the time.
Flags, Anthems, Names of places, doesn't really bother me actually.

Maybe you have done extensive research among foreigners on this, as well?

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 01:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did the GFA woosh right over your head?

You talk to some odd foreigners...never once have I had to distinguish my country in that way. I use a 'multitude of terms', if i need to refer to the Republic Of Ireland I do...all the time.
Flags, Anthems, Names of places, doesn't really bother me actually.

Maybe you have done extensive research among foreigners on this, as well?

So you do call it the Republic of Ireland?

Ergo you are a 'new' SF voter who is partitionist. As you accept the name, laws and rule of the ROI and so on.
Yeah the SF voter is not confused at all.

If the GFA has gone over my head it has certainly gone over the head of some 'good republican's' Sean Quinn murder and so on.

SF want to try and have things both ways. They play with words when it comes to murder and play with words when it comes to referring to the ROI.

FrancieBrady · 09-05-2020 01:12PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are been deliberately obtuse there Francie. You think hard why AOS said it to Shatter. I will give you a hint his religion begins with J.

The only one in the DE

Also you just have to look at the comments Reada Cronin said and it becomes crystal clear the mindset of SF. The Paddy Hollahan as well.

It plays to the SF electorate.

So what if Shatter is a Jew? Was the reference intended to imply Shatter was going to kill himself, because that is what Goebbels and the nazis did?

Goebbels was a world famous Minister for Propaganda.

If AOS has a track record of Anti Semitic comments, fine, your point stands. But he doesn't, so any jury would find he was making a reference that had nothing to do with religion.

FrancieBrady · 09-05-2020 01:16PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So you do call it the Republic of Ireland?

Ergo you are a 'new' SF voter who is partitionist. As you accept the name, laws and rule of the ROI and so on.
Yeah the SF voter is not confused at all.

AWWWWW you got me GGD ......you got me!

I am 'partitionist' because i said Republic of Ireland.

gormdubhgorm · 09-05-2020 01:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbf everyone out my way calls it the free state aswell....seems to be midlands/pale thing to be triggered by that

Out your way? What year do they live in pre-1948? Now we are getting to the truth of the matter.
'Out your way' they still refer to Dublin as the Pale and the ROI as the Free State.
It is obviously a very small bubble you live in.

Yet at the same time you like to think of SF as the party of inclusiveness.

How can SF be inclusive when 'out your way' they do not even use the term ROI. And still refer to the Pale.

This is the real SF. People who do not accept reality it is a dangerous rhetoric.
Free State/Pale and so on.

Why follow the laws in the state you reside in if you do not recognize it?
Surely you should join Saoradh if you feel that strongly?

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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