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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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12357…326

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    #122
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    What’s your solution? Continue lockdown indefinitely until we have a vaccination? No one is allowed go back to work until we have a cure?

    This situation is completely unsustainable and people are rightly wondering when they’re going to be allowed to earn a living again.
    The €350 a week payment isn’t going to last forever and the longer people are out of work, the less likely the chance of them having a job to go back to is.
    The economy is in a chokehold while Tony H bleats on about 2 more weeks, as if two more weeks is going to kill off the virus but the virus is going nowhere. We need to learn to live alongside it.
    This is the new normal and we need to adapt to it, sooner rather than later.

    We need to protect the elderly and vulnerable by cocooning them & supporting them in any way we can, and allow the young healthy majority of the population go back to work.
    What were supposed to be temporary layoffs are turning into permanent ones as the days go on.
    This simply cannot continue. This is going to cost as many lives, if not more than covid-19 in the long run.

    When did the government or Tony H say continue lockdown until there is a vaccine? Your being over dramatic. Rabble rabble rabble.


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    #123
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    deisedevil wrote: »
    This would be your expert opinion of course, yes? You've reviewed what literature is available and studied the data?

    Or are you talking out your hoop?

    Edit. Just to add. Seeing as you've made your very informed opinion on the situation. You might also enlighten us as to how we would fare if we were to suddenly remove the restrictions only to see an increase in deaths and then have to roll back again. Do you know what that might do for the economy? Did you think about how many times worse it will be if we have to go back to square one?

    Missed the part where virtually everyone who wants the economy reopened still wants social distancing among the healthy and the vulnerable to remain cocooned as they currently are?


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    #124
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    So we should shut up and leave it to our betters then? I guess you'll still be doffing your cap when you get sacked so.

    No, your right. We should go with the lads that shout loudest and talk through their hoop having done no research or made any decent effort to come up with an informed decision. Let's follow the lead from the lads acrss the Atlantic. Murica!


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    #125
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    Right so what's your master plan then, hole up until there's a vaccine? See you in 12-18 months so.

    Leave the current restrictions in place for three/four weeks. Try to ensure that community transmission is eradicated.

    Make sure all testing, tracing and turnaround systems are robust, accurate and efficient.

    Re open society, place enormous emphasis on social distancing, hygiene measures and make face masks/coverings mandatory in public places.

    I'd start with all of that.


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    #126
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Arghus wrote: »
    I'm not concerned personally that I'll die of Covid, but I'd be concerned about helping to spread it to other people who might become seriously ill or worse because of it.

    If someone isn't already terminally ill or approaching end of life the risk is not very high.
    So assuming you are adhering to government directive now as you should(avoiding vulnerable), going back to work won't mean you can automatically reintegrate with those vulnerable people and put them at risk


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    #127
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Arghus wrote: »
    I'm not concerned personally that I'll die of Covid, but I'd be concerned about helping to spread it to other people who might become seriously ill or worse because of it.

    Why on earth would you be going near anyone you think is vulnerable?


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    #128
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Arghus wrote: »
    Leave the current restrictions in place for three/four weeks. Try to ensure that community transmission is eradicated.

    Make sure all testing, tracing and turnaround systems are robust, accurate and efficient.

    Re open society, place enormous emphasis on social distancing, hygiene measures and make face masks/coverings mandatory in public places.

    I'd start with all of that.

    Well thats not absurd.

    Its not Tonys plan however


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    #129
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    Missed the part where virtually everyone who wants the economy reopened still wants social distancing among the healthy and the vulnerable to remain cocooned as they currently are?

    And that's on the way.

    If we do it too quickly when we haven't prepared properly for it, we'll make an absolute mess of it and could end up having to roll back. Be some craic reading comments from the same people on here then when the economy would be in a far far worse state than it already is.

    Having to bring back restrictions would end up being so much worse. So why not get it right first time and not just go and chance it.


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    #130
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    This would be your expert opinion of course, yes? You've reviewed what literature is available and studied the data?

    Here's the problem in a nutshell. Literature reviews, data, peer review, expert medical opinion, statistical analyses etc. are not the sole criteria by which the nation is governed.

    Ireland is a country, not a giant university in which the professor with the most PhDs outranks the rest of the faculty.

    The real leaders of this country, the Taoiseach and the Cabinet, can ask for and take Holohan's advice but they have balance it against other important factors and they can't pass off responsibility onto him either.

    The people who live here get some say as well, they don't have to produce expert scientific credentials before they can object to the dismantling of all economic life and civil society.


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    #131
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    Why on earth would you be going near anyone you think is vulnerable?

    Well, I mightn't myself, but I could easily spread it to someone who might. It's a highly transmissible virus.

    As it turns out, I happen to work in a retail store where being pretty close to the public is more or less impossible to avoid. And every hour of every day that I'm there I see "vulnerable" people in close proximity to other people. Just flat out avoiding the vulnerable isn't as easy as you seem to believe. Do I know the medical history of every person that stands beside me?


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    #132
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    deisedevil wrote: »
    When did the government or Tony H say continue lockdown until there is a vaccine? Your being over dramatic. Rabble rabble rabble.

    Except I never said Tony H said that, so you must be seeing what you want to see. Unless we plan to stay locked in our houses until there is a vaccine there is no need to delay any further. The virus is going nowhere and hiding at home won’t make it go away.
    Why are you not concerned about the lives that are being ruined and lost to the crashing of the economy and restricted access to other healthcare services?


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    #133
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    deisedevil wrote: »
    And that's on the way.

    If we do it too quickly when we haven't prepared properly for it, we'll make an absolute mess of it and could end up having to roll back. Be some craic reading comments from the same people on here then when the economy would be in a far far worse state than it already is.

    Having to bring back restrictions would end up being so much worse. So why not get it right first time and not just go and chance it.

    The issue is how restrictive Ireland is. The decision today was an indicator that the roadmap is horses##t and all that's due on the 18th of May is an extension.


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    #134
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Arghus wrote: »
    Try to ensure that community transmission is eradicated.

    Open borders and optional/no quarantining among certain groups renders this aspiration impossible.

    If you think a liberal like Varadkar would in a million years demand mandatory quarantine of for example those from the Traveller ethnic minority, you are deluded. He'd rather 1000 died from covid 19 before even thinking of doing this.

    Welcome to the new ultra cool ultra liberal Ireland.


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    #135
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Arghus wrote: »
    Well, I mightn't myself, but I could easily spread it to someone who might. It's a highly transmissible virus.

    As it turns out, I happen to work in a retail store where being pretty close to the public is more or less impossible to avoid. And every hour of every day that I'm there I see "vulnerable" people in close proximity to other people. Just flat out avoiding the vulnerable isn't as easy as you seem to believe. Do I know the medical history of every person that stands beside me?

    Well there is a substantial chance in previous years you have contracted and passed on Influenza.
    The media didnt tell you though so it didnt resonate as much


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    #136
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    deisedevil wrote: »
    And that's on the way.

    If we do it too quickly when we haven't prepared properly for it, we'll make an absolute mess of it and could end up having to roll back. Be some craic reading comments from the same people on here then when the economy would be in a far far worse state than it already is.

    Having to bring back restrictions would end up being so much worse. So why not get it right first time and not just go and chance it.

    We’ve had 7 (8?) weeks to prepare for it. Business owners have had plans in place for weeks on how they will operate their businesses with new social distancing measures in place.
    Now they’re being told they need to wait until July to reopen, they aren’t even being given a fighting chance.

    If at any point the hospitals become overwhelmed, the restrictions will be coming back anyway. I thought that was common knowledge.
    If the health system is under too much strain we will have to stay at home again.
    Right now both the public and private hospitals are all but empty, waiting for a surge that isn’t coming because everyone is in lockdown. It’s a massive waste of resources to say the least.


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    #137
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Arghus wrote: »
    Well, I mightn't myself, but I could easily spread it to someone who might. It's a highly transmissible virus.

    You should be practising social distancing with everyone bar your immediate family.

    And your immediate family/partner should not be going anywhere near anyone vulnerable unless in full PPE.

    If you follow these steps the chances of you infecting someone vulnerable are next to 0.


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    #138
    hamburgham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    Would recommend Covid articles in the Daily Telegraph.Excellent informed writers representing a DIVERSITY of views on the value of lockdown, many extremely sceptical. Complete contrast to our media which apart from Ivan Yates is only interested in generating fear porn.

    Was one very interesting piece which completely rubbished Ferguson’s modelling, quoted a doctor who said the idea of a load of 80+ year olds ending up in ICU was laughable to every med practitioner, it doesn’t happen as sadly their bodies aren’t able for it . This one example of reality wasn’t factored into the model though hence ICUs will be overrun. There was also an analysis of his previous predictions on SARS,MAD COW, Etc ,deaths all massively massively Overstated.


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    #139
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Except I never said Tony H said that, so you must be seeing what you want to see. Unless we plan to stay locked in our houses until there is a vaccine there is no need to delay any further. The virus is going nowhere and hiding at home won’t make it go away.
    Why are you not concerned about the lives that are being ruined and lost to the crashing of the economy and restricted access to other healthcare services?

    I know you didn't say that. What I mean is, who has said we need to do that? Nobody! Restrictions will be lifted slowly, regardless of a vaccine availability.

    Of course I'm concerned about the lives being ruined. But, I'm far more concerned about how much worse it could become. And I'd be much more comfortable with leaving the decisions to those making them at the minute than the likes of yourself anyway that's for sure. Where do you get the idea that you might have a better grasp of what we need than the people currently making the decisions? Do you think they got their jobs from a lucky bag? Seriously. How brazen are some of you that you think your opinion overrules these people. Have a good think about it. These people and more like them around the world are working their arses off to get countries back to normal. Your opinion that they are wrong means fúck all.


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    #140
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    We’ve had 7 (8?) weeks to prepare for it. Business owners have had plans in place for weeks on how they will operate their businesses with new social distancing measures in place.
    Now they’re being told they need to wait until July to reopen, they aren’t even being given a fighting chance.

    If at any point the hospitals become overwhelmed, the restrictions will be coming back anyway. I thought that was common knowledge.
    If the health system is under too much strain we will have to stay at home again.
    Right now both the public and private hospitals are all but empty, waiting for a surge that isn’t coming because everyone is in lockdown. It’s a massive waste of resources to say the least.

    If we have to bring back in the restrictions and have a lockdown a second time then the economy will be completely on its arsé. Do you not know that? Why do you think they are trying to make so sure that they get it right first time rather than try and try again.

    We can't just have a go at it. We have to be a lot more sure than that.


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    #141
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    hamburgham wrote: »
    Would recommend Covid articles in the Daily Telegraph.Excellent informed writers representing a DIVERSITY of views on the value of lockdown, many extremely sceptical. Complete contrast to our media which apart from Ivan Yates is only interested in generating fear porn.

    Was one very interesting piece which completely rubbished Ferguson’s modelling, quoted a doctor who said the idea of a load of 80+ year olds ending up in ICU was laughable to every med practitioner, it doesn’t happen as sadly their bodies aren’t able for it . This one example of reality wasn’t factored into the model though hence ICUs will be overrun. There was also an analysis of his previous predictions on SARS,MAD COW, Etc ,deaths all massively massively Overstated.

    Check out Dr Marcus Bruns report from last month.

    Also Ivan will get a statue after this, its the only show in town.

    The rest of the populist bulls##t is nauseating


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    #142
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    pv8sixjdbmx41.jpg


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    #143
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Well there is a substantial chance in previous years you have contracted and passed on Influenza.
    The media didnt tell you though so it didnt resonate as much

    Yes. But influenza is less lethal and not as transmissible. That's what makes Covid more dangerous.


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    #144
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,568 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Spain has refused a request from Madrid to ease lock down measures and Italian officals have issued warning over flouting of distancing rules saying measures will be reimposed.
    The Spanish government has refused the Madrid region permission to loosen its coronavirus confinement, as angry officials in Italy issued a warning that they would not hesitate to reimpose strict lockdown restrictions if distancing rules were flouted

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/08/global-report-spain-and-italy-grapple-with-how-to-end-covid-19-lockdown


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    #145
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    deisedevil wrote: »
    These people and more like them around the world are working their arses off to get countries back to normal. Your opinion that they are wrong means fúck all.

    No Ireland are way behind the world. Thats the problem


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    #146
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    growleaves wrote: »
    Here's the problem in a nutshell. Literature reviews, data, peer review, expert medical opinion, statistical analyses etc. are not the sole criteria by which the nation is governed.

    Ireland is a country, not a giant university in which the professor with the most PhDs outranks the rest of the faculty.

    The real leaders of this country, the Taoiseach and the Cabinet, can ask for and take Holohan's advice but they have balance it against other important factors and they can't pass off responsibility onto him either.

    The people who live here get some say as well, they don't have to produce expert scientific credentials before they can object to the dismantling of all economic life and civil society.

    So it's a good thing that not to go with the Eggheads then is it? Shur what would they know. We can make up our own minds. Fúck science.


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    #147
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Arghus wrote: »
    Yes. But influenza is less lethal and not as transmissible. That's what makes Covid more dangerous.

    You don't know that. You just think you do.


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    #148
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    pv8sixjdbmx41.jpg

    Jesus that's rubbish. There's no nuance or satire or anything.


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    #149
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Arghus wrote: »
    Yes. But influenza is less lethal and not as transmissible. That's what makes Covid more dangerous.

    You could of still passed on Influenza and killed someone in the past


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    #150
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    No Ireland are way behind the world. Thats the problem

    Oh I didn't know that. Please, could you send us a link to your data that supports your theory.


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    #151
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    You should be practising social distancing with everyone bar your immediate family.

    And your immediate family/partner should not be going anywhere near anyone vulnerable unless in full PPE.

    If you follow these steps the chances of you infecting someone vulnerable are next to 0.

    I try to practice social distancing, but in my line of work it's next to impossible. I was within 2 metres of literally hundreds of people today. The nature of being on a shopfloor. Unless I hide in the toilets all day.


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