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Bewleys set to close

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  • 07-05-2020 4:14pm
    #1
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,613 ✭✭✭✭


    Sad to hear about this and the loss of 110 jobs. Landlord Johnny Ronan would not drop the rent of 30,000 per week so they are closing permanently. Not sure what will become of it now, probably another British high street clothes store
    Social distancing measures once it reopened later in the summer would have forced the cafe to reduce its capacity, Mr Campbell said.

    As a result, it was facing a significant loss of revenue compared to the level it had previously been trading at, he claimed.

    The café's premises is leased and the company was paying almost €1.5m a year in rent to Ronan Group Real Estate, the firm owned by developer Johnny Ronan.

    In 2012 an independent arbitrator had recommended that the rent be cut to €728,000.

    However, that proposal was not accepted by the landlord, which later won a Supreme Court action aimed at overturning a High Court ruling that found the rent should be halved.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0506/1136899-bewleys-grafton-street/


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    #2
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,015 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    It's a protected structure afaik so going to be difficult to do a lot with it.

    It's sad but at the same time the prices in there were ridiculous.

    Someone has set up an online petition, for all the good it will do http://chng.it/sDRzCVhYQY


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    #3
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,535 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Caranica wrote: »
    It's a protected structure afaik so going to be difficult to do a lot with it.

    It's sad but at the same time the prices in there were ridiculous.

    Someone has set up an online petition, for all the good it will do http://chng.it/sDRzCVhYQY

    With the rent at 1.5 million a year prices had to be high,
    I think its an awful shame if it goes ,


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    #4
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Doop


    3.....2.......1.......Starbucks

    Very sad... didn't realise the Ronan Group owned it... they obv have limited social/cultural conscience, I understand they're all out to make money but its not as if the Ronan Group is struggling.


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    #5
    Nunu
    Registered Users Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Nunu


    They were hardly making anywhere near €30,000 a week to cover just the rent alone were they?!


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    #6
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Doop wrote: »
    3.....2.......1.......Starbucks

    Very sad... didn't realise the Ronan Group owned it... they obv have limited social/cultural conscience, I understand they're all out to make money but its not as if the Ronan Group is struggling.


    The name lives on in their coffee and other products.

    A pity that the building as we know it is gone, no one else could make a go of running a cafe with rent of €1.5m it seems.

    How long has Ronan owned the building does anyone know.

    A Starbucks, I feel sick.


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    #7
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    We've been here a couple of times already (from 2004):

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2019/1101/1087992-bewleys-cafes-close/


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    #8
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,745 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Caranica wrote: »
    Campbell Catering have Starbucks already, as well as Bewleys?

    Campbell Catering have neither


    Starbucks in Ireland is Entertainment Enterprises - Leisureplex, Dantes, TGI Fridays, Maos, Hard Rock Cafe.

    Campbell Catering was sold to Aramak but notably *excluding* Bewleys, both retail and wholesale; the Campbell family kept it.


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    #9
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    Garrett Fitzgerald nationalised Bewley's back in the 1980s thus giving it a lifeline until it was re-sold. I wonder if this should be done again?


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    Garrett Fitzgerald nationalised Bewley's back in the 1980s thus giving it a lifeline until it was re-sold. I wonder if this should be done again?

    It should, as an icon of Dublin. It’s like as if Harrod’s in London was turned into a TK Maxx or whatever. There’s the infrastructure, the Harry Clarke glass. Compulsory purchase and turn it into part of the National Museum, maybe culinary history, with coffees & sticky buns served.


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    #11
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    Another thought: Why are landlords of the type who rent to Bewley's apparently happy to risk a period of several months with no rent coming in from their properties, rather than show some flexibility with existing tenants?

    I wonder if there is some legal or tax incentive for them to behave like this? If so, we should be told what it is.


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    #12
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,465 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    Another thought: Why are landlords of the type who rent to Bewley's apparently happy to risk a period of several months with no rent coming in from their properties, rather than show some flexibility with existing tenants?

    I wonder if there is some legal or tax incentive for them to behave like this? If so, we should be told what it is.
    I had it with a company I worked for. Owners sold the company and built them a new factory.
    When the company went into examiner ship they looked for a rent reduction and were told no.
    80 jobs were gone that night.


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    Another thought: Why are landlords of the type who rent to Bewley's apparently happy to risk a period of several months with no rent coming in from their properties, rather than show some flexibility with existing tenants?

    I wonder if there is some legal or tax incentive for them to behave like this? If so, we should be told what it is.

    Quite often, there are break clauses and rent reviews built into long term commercial leases. If they are far enough away from a rent review, and the property is leased for less than market rent, it could be more profitable to boot the tenant out and relet it to someone else for 40k a week.

    Not saying that's the case here, I'm not familiar with the specifics.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It should, as an icon of Dublin. It’s like as if Harrod’s in London was turned into a TK Maxx or whatever. There’s the infrastructure, the Harry Clarke glass. Compulsory purchase and turn it into part of the National Museum, maybe culinary history, with coffees & sticky buns served.

    Not sure if you're serious or not, but, out of curiosity, when's the last time you set foot in / purchased anything in Bewleys?


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    #15
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,474 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Nunu wrote: »
    They were hardly making anywhere near €30,000 a week to cover just the rent alone were they?!

    6.50 for a hot chocolate I remember... God knows how much a sandwich was. There were plenty of gullible tourists around to keep them going.


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    #16
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Jonny Ronan is an absolute charlatan, a toxic stain that should of been kept in liquidation.


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    #17
    Dubmany
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭Dubmany


    Bewleys in some ways is similar to Clery's, two iconic Dublin establishments that people talked warmly about but rarely frequented. Even without the Covid-19 crisis and the high rent, I think its time would have been limited.


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    #18
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Id bet good money it will be trading later this year with the same branding over the door.


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    #19
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 12,015 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    mickdw wrote: »
    Id bet good money it will be trading later this year with the same branding over the door.

    Starbucks @ Bewley's Grafton St. ?


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dubmany wrote: »
    Bewleys in some ways is similar to Clery's, two iconic Dublin establishments that people talked warmly about but rarely frequented. Even without the Covid-19 crisis and the high rent, I think its time would have been limited.

    And the very same reason why there will never ever be an Apple Store in Grafton Street.


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    #21
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,060 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    Another thought: Why are landlords of the type who rent to Bewley's apparently happy to risk a period of several months with no rent coming in from their properties, rather than show some flexibility with existing tenants?

    I wonder if there is some legal or tax incentive for them to behave like this? If so, we should be told what it is.
    Even in normal conditions, Bewley's in Grafton Street traded at a loss. A coffee shop, however upmarket, simply doesn't generate the revenue need to pay rents at Grafton Street levels on a premises of that size. The Grafton St cafe was being cross-subsided by the rest of the Bewley's operation.

    In these circumstances, you don't need "legal or tax incentives" to make the landlord reluctant to grant a rent reduction or a rent holiday; simple common sense will do it. There is no foreseeable time when trading conditions in Bewley's in Grafton St will reach a point where the cafe can pay the market rent; it has to be subsidised from somewhere. And, the landlord will reason, if the wider Bewley's group is no longer willing to subsidise Bewley's Grafton Street, why should we be? For obvious reasons, the landlord's natural preference is to let the premises to a tenant whose business can support the market rent; the landlord has no economic incentive to subsidise a less secure tenant to remain on in the premises.

    It's a shame, but I don't think the landlord is to blame.


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    #22
    BillyBiggs
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭BillyBiggs


    Hard to see anybody renting it in the next 6-8 months. The doorway will make a nice bed for somebody.


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    #23
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,294 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    It's a shame, but I don't think the landlord is to blame.

    There is a cohort that will always blame landlords. They are the easiest target and will usually be called 'greedy' for accepting the market rent on a property


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    #24
    BillyBiggs
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭BillyBiggs


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    There is a cohort that will always blame landlords. They are the easiest target and will usually be called 'greedy' for accepting the market rent on a property

    I’d like to see them try get the “market rent” for it now.


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    #25
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,294 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    BillyBiggs wrote: »
    I’d like to see them try get the “market rent” for it now.

    Well that is the point. The next tenant WILL pay the market rent.


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    #26
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    Another thought: Why are landlords of the type who rent to Bewley's apparently happy to risk a period of several months with no rent coming in from their properties, rather than show some flexibility with existing tenants?

    I wonder if there is some legal or tax incentive for them to behave like this? If so, we should be told what it is.
    None whatsoever.

    The business lost €1.5m last year, so if the rent was free it would still not be profitable.

    Basically the business itself failed and was unable to pay the rent.


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    #27
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,745 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Well that is the point. The next tenant WILL pay the market rent.

    Its almost definite that the market rent for a protected cafe that can't be used for anything other than a cafe is a lot less than 1.5m


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    #28
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,060 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    L1011 wrote: »
    Its almost definite that the market rent for a protected cafe that can't be used for anything other than a cafe is a lot less than 1.5m
    SFAIK it can be used for purposes other than a cafe, so long as the listed elements of the structure are retained.

    It could be a restaurant, for example. Perhaps quite a high-end one. And I dare say it could be adapted as a luxury goods outlet without too much problem.


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    #29
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,881 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    SFAIK it can be used for purposes other than a cafe, so long as the listed elements of the structure are retained.

    It could be a restaurant, for example. Perhaps quite a high-end one. And I dare say it could be adapted as a luxury goods outlet without too much problem.

    Until social distancing is removed no one will be taking on any new restaurant or cafe venture and a lot more won't be reopening. The margins are tiny in food and loosing half, at best, seating capacity makes them not viable


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    #30
    rolling boh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    Unless Bewleys actually owned the premises not a hope it could trade profitable. Too much competition and steep prices made this inevitable not the first time unfortunately. The videos of Johnny Ronan down in South Africa also do him no favours in a lot of people eyes of course .


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    #31
    Loozer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Loozer


    Is the turnover figures available for Grafton st branch


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