Bewleys set to close

antimatterx

Set to reopen August 27th

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/bewley-s-grafton-street-cafe-to-reopen-from-august-27th-at-latest-1.4318090

Dempo1

Bewleys reopening tomorrow, I hear humble pie is being served all day

Darc19

Dempo1 wrote: »

Bewleys reopening tomorrow, I hear humble pie is being served all day

€15 a slice

Dempo1

Darc19 wrote: »

€15 a slice

And that's takeaway price

imme

€4 for a croissant,
do you eat it with a knife and fork?

Dempo1

imme wrote: »

€4 for a croissant,
do you eat it with a knife and fork?

LOL , I see THE PR started today, articles in papers etc, 3 generations of campbells, vomit enducing stuff, seems they've forgotten the 120 employee's let go a few months back but just amazing they've found some spare change to pay their rent, arrears and interest, they met their match with a landlord not taking any more nonsense.

Anyone try the Humble pie?, heard its a little bitter

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

Id bet good money it will be trading later this year with the same branding over the door.

..... Well i did say

Dempo1

mickdw wrote: »

..... Well i did say

Yes you did , it was either a reopening or the leaseholder family looking at substantial judgement against them, I'd say they are sick having to reopen, it's certainly not out of choice. It will tick along but no doubt they be back to acting the maggot once the dust settles. Costly little episode, no shrinking violet, their landlord is.

Quackster

Dempo1 wrote: »

Yes you did , it was either a reopening or the leaseholder family looking at substantial judgement against them, I'd say they are sick having to reopen, it's certainly not out of choice. It will tick along but no doubt they be back to acting the maggot once the dust settles. Costly little episode, no shrinking violet, their landlord is.

In fairness, they don't have much longer to run on the current lease and then they can look forward to having their rent slashed to a fraction of what it currently is.

Geuze

Darc19 wrote: »

30k a month - that would be an absolute bargain. 30k a week is the rent.

High, but not outrageously high. The building is about 10,000 Sq ft.

To give an idea of rents in prime areas, Smiggle are paying €200,000 a year for their tiny shop in Dundrum (that's why they are so expensive)

Closer to bewleys, Victoria Secret is paying €1.8million for their store.

Market rent for bewleys building is certainly over €1m a year once covid issue is gone (vaccine will come and the world will get back to normal)

1.5 m per year

125,000 per month

28,850 per week

4,100 per day

All commercial rents in Ireland are way too high.

It's good to read that a more reasonable rent is 33% less.

Let's hope rents fall that much.

Biker79

Will pop up in the morning and see how the lattes are.

Muahahaha

Dempo1 wrote: »

LOL , I see THE PR started today, articles in papers etc, 3 generations of campbells, vomit enducing stuff, seems they've forgotten the 120 employee's let go a few months back but just amazing they've found some spare change to pay their rent, arrears and interest, they met their match with a landlord not taking any more nonsense.

Anyone try the Humble pie?, heard its a little bitter

yeah I saw that photo call with the Campbells outside it on the day of re-opening. Was wondering how they could even look their staff in the eye having just let them go a few months prior despite them having millions in the bank. The staff now know their employer used them as pawns and made them redundant so they could play hardball with the landlord. They ought to find themselves a better employer than that.

Darc19

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah I saw that photo call with the Campbells outside it on the day of re-opening. Was wondering how they could even look their staff in the eye having just let them go a few months prior despite them having millions in the bank. The staff now know their employer used them as pawns and made them redundant so they could play hardball with the landlord. They ought to find themselves a better employer than that.

Most of the staff would have been on the covid payment and I would suspect that they were aware of the game being played.

Bewleys Cafe is loss making. It's the parent company that has money as the wholesale business is strong.

Dempo1

Darc19 wrote: »

Most of the staff would have been on the covid payment and I would suspect that they were aware of the game being played.

Bewleys Cafe is loss making. It's the parent company that has money as the wholesale business is strong.

Let's not sugar coat this, the operators have been acting the maggot since the day they sold this building at a handsome profit and then leased it back, they knew its rental market value, they knew exactly what they were getting into.

As previously stated by them, 120 staff were made redundant and whilst these unfortunate staff were on PUP, it hardly makes it acceptable.

Its only open for one reason, they had too and not out of choice & their recent games backfired spectacularly & at enormous cost, far more if they'd actually been paying their rent before the pandemic. The most disgusting aspect of this entire affair was the cynical way they blamed the pandemic for all their woes.

it will be run on a shoe string until lease up, I believe along with humble pie on the menu, they will now be supplying a fork in sugar bowls from now on.

Muahahaha

yeah agreed, its not about the PUP, its about management playing with their staffs lives and making them uncertain of their future just so they could use them as pawns in a high stakes poker game.

strandroad

For what it's worth, there was a line out of the door almost to the corner yesterday and it was past lunch time.

Atlantic Dawn

Geuze wrote: »

1.5 m per year

125,000 per month

28,850 per week

4,100 per day

All commercial rents in Ireland are way too high.

It's good to read that a more reasonable rent is 33% less.

Let's hope rents fall that much.

If they are still paying this level of rent they won't be around this time next year. I would think they should have got a big reduction seeing as the property is only worth a fraction of what it was at the start of the year as retail is struggling.

Mr.S

Mr.S wrote: »

Breathes a bit of life onto Grafton Street which is badly needed.

Do the Property companies have the same sentiment?

Quackster

Dempo1 wrote: »

Let's not sugar coat this, the operators have been acting the maggot since the day they sold this building at a handsome profit and then leased it back, they knew its rental market value, they knew exactly what they were getting into.

As previously stated by them, 120 staff were made redundant and whilst these unfortunate staff were on PUP, it hardly makes it acceptable.

Its only open for one reason, they had too and not out of choice & their recent games backfired spectacularly & at enormous cost, far more if they'd actually been paying their rent before the pandemic. The most disgusting aspect of this entire affair was the cynical way they blamed the pandemic for all their woes.

it will be run on a shoe string until lease up, I believe along with humble pie on the menu, they will now be supplying a fork in sugar bowls from now on.

It reopened because they wanted to, not because they had to.

The landlord made it clear they could walk away from the lease and he previously offered to buy them out.

The Campbells clearly consider it of sufficient value to the Bewley's brand to hold onto it and continue running it at a loss for now, knowing their rent will be slashed in a few years.

Dempo1

The Saga continues. During the week Paddy Campbell announced he was donating the famed stained glass panels and other artifacts to the nation, Worth an estimated €2 million, I thought how generous and I'm sure there's a tax efficient angle, but wondered, how was such a generous offer possible, given he sold the Building and is only leasing it. He discussed his recent (and by no means the first spat) he's had with his landlord, claiming it was never personal.

It is now and yet again it appears the Campbell"s have stirred a hornets nest. You'd have to wonder what planet these people are on, yet another excuse use to close I wonder and blame the big bad landlord?

https://amp-independent-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/trouble-brewing-johnny-ronans-firm-claims-it-owns-bewleys-stained-glass-windows-39873168.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16081895663927&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Firish-news%2Ftrouble-brewing-johnny-ronans-firm-claims-it-owns-bewleys-stained-glass-windows-39873168.html

L1011

If you've been inside the building, they are clearly internal fittings and not part of the fabric. They are either backlit electrically or fitted over an external window.

Just Ronan stirring the pot before he gets hammered on lease renewal due to the possible rent collapsing

If Ronan wants to claim he owns the fixtures and fittings he may want to retrospectively contribute to 30 years of upkeep!

Dempo1

L1011 wrote: »

If you've been inside the building, they are clearly internal fittings and not part of the fabric. They are either backlit electrically or fitted over an external window.

Just Ronan stirring the pot before he gets hammered on lease renewal due to the possible rent collapsing

If Ronan wants to claim he owns the fixtures and fittings he may want to retrospectively contribute to 30 years of upkeep!

I've been there many times and these windows have been in situ since 1927. To suggest they are not part of the fabric of the building is a little odd. Whilst I'm certainly no expert on what constitutes fixtures and fittings, it would seem windows certainly would, whatever their design or make up. This particular argument over the windows has come up before and prior to initial closure and whilst Senior Counsel advice sought on both sides, it went nowhere.

More pertinent is regardless of ownership dispute , hell would freeze over if they were ever removed so in essence, the owner of the property, Johnny Ronan, will retain ownership as long as he's legal owner, Not Paddy Campbell , who is a Tenant. I'm not at all sure why he actually made his bizzare offer to the Nation, they will remain in place regardless, I suspect given the history of his Tenancy it's more of a PR and attempted tax break stunt.

I'm absolutely no fan of Johnny Ronan by the way.

Muahahaha

Dempo1 wrote: »

The Saga continues. During the week Paddy Campbell announced he was donating the famed stained glass panels and other artifacts to the nation, Worth an estimated €2 million, I thought how generous and I'm sure there's a tax efficient angle, but wondered, how was such a generous offer possible, given he sold the Building and is only leasing it. He discussed his recent (and by no means the first spat) he's had with his landlord, claiming it was never personal.

There is a tax law that says if you have an artwork of nationally important significance and you display it in public there are tax benefits derivied from doing so. The item has to have a minimum value of 150k and be displayed to the public in a Revenue approved venue like a museum. Doing so then allows an 80% deduction on income tax or corporation tax. If the owner displays it for 10 years they are then also exempt for capital gains on the sale of the artwork. So for investors they can buy a valuable Irish artwork, outsource its security, storage and insurance to a museum and then sell it 10 years later with no capital gains tax liable on the profits.

Not sure how the above would apply to Bewleys but Im sure a good tax accountant would work it out.

Dempo1

Muahahaha wrote: »

There is a tax law that says if you have an artwork of nationally important significance and you display it in public there are tax benefits derivied from doing so. The item has to have a minimum value of 150k and be displayed to the public in a Revenue approved venue like a museum. Doing so then allows an 80% deduction on income tax or corporation tax. If the owner displays it for 10 years they are then also exempt for capital gains on the sale of the artwork. So for investors they can buy a valuable Irish artwork, outsource its security, storage and insurance to a museum and then sell it 10 years later with no capital gains tax liable on the profits.

Not sure how the above would apply to Bewleys but Im sure a good tax accountant would work it out.

All correct, it was hinted initially this was one of the reasons Campbell came up with this idea, in reality, it's extremely doubtful a fixed window whilst certainly of enormous importance would be considered or count under such a scheme, particularly in an already protected building, the window by default is already on display and certainly won't be permitted to be moved, most of Clarkes stain glass windows are in Church's, already covered by charitable status.

Marcusm

L1011 wrote: »

If you've been inside the building, they are clearly internal fittings and not part of the fabric. They are either backlit electrically or fitted over an external window.

Just Ronan stirring the pot before he gets hammered on lease renewal due to the possible rent collapsing

If Ronan wants to claim he owns the fixtures and fittings he may want to retrospectively contribute to 30 years of upkeep!

The question will be whether they were part of the fabric when Rohan’s company Ickandel acquired the building which certainly predated the 2094 refurb not to mind the more recent one. No doubt the lease was on an FRI basis and there would not have been a reason for the landlord to contribute. There was a court case going back to that earlier refurb. This might end up as a Conrad Gallagher/Peacock Alley position if the windows have been removed from the fabric and now Campbell seeks to transfer ownership.

Darc19

L1011 wrote: »

If you've been inside the building, they are clearly internal fittings and not part of the fabric. They are either backlit electrically or fitted over an external window.

Just Ronan stirring the pot before he gets hammered on lease renewal due to the possible rent collapsing

If Ronan wants to claim he owns the fixtures and fittings he may want to retrospectively contribute to 30 years of upkeep!

I don't understand this thinking that rent will collapse. Market rent is probably about 1.2-1.3m when looking at other comparisons.

That it can serve food and probably open late and potentially have a bar license would see that even higher. Covid will be forgotten by the time the new lease is in place.

RCK1

Darc19 wrote: »

I don't understand this thinking that rent will collapse. Market rent is probably about 1.2-1.3m when looking at other comparisons.

That it can serve food and probably open late and potentially have a bar license would see that even higher. Covid will be forgotten by the time the new lease is in place.

Cant remember where but read at the way things stand now it would drop to 700,000 to 800,000 which would actually let Bewleys some sort of profit on it without support from the parent company.

RCK1

Interesting too see which way this plays out! They aren't a structural element of the building so hopefully Bewleys wins, even if its just to piss the RG off as the windows are worth alot of money
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/bewley-s-wants-taxpayer-to-foot-rent-bill-landlord-tells-court-1.4473241

L1011

RGREs receivers are selling the building. So much for Ronan's posturing.

He can, in theory, hold on to it if he manages to refinance a loan.

The expiring lease and the vast quantities of retail units still empty on Grafton Street won't help the price.

blue5000

As a culchie living in the sticks, who hasn’t been to Dublin since covid started, just how bad are things for retailers in Dublin now? Like how much is coffee and a sandwich in Bewley’s these days? Can you still buy a quarter pound of mint fudge in there?