Relaxation of restrictions Part II

hmmm · 07-05-2020 01:40PM

snotboogie wrote: »

The fastest ever vaccine turnaround was 5 years. You think we'll have one within 9 months of the disease being identified?

Oxford expect to know whether their vaccine works by early July. Two Chinese vaccines have been in Phase 1/2 trials for several weeks. There are two US companies also. Pfizer put four vaccine candidates into trials just this week. Curevac in Germany hope to start in June. In many of these, animal trials have already shown they work - there has never been so many attention from major drug companies and biotechs focused on a single problem.

We'll know relatively quickly whether they work. After that, the question is how long will regulators require to ensure they are safe. This may take a long time, but a vaccine would become available for emergency use (e.g. first responders) before full testing is complete.

uli84 · 07-05-2020 01:43PM

350€ payment to be extended beyond mid-June, scary

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0507/1137039-taoiseach-confirms-350-payment-scheme-will-be-extended/

Balf · 07-05-2020 01:47PM

hmmm wrote: »

We'll know relatively quickly whether they work. After that, the question is how long will regulators require to ensure they are safe. This may take a long time, but a vaccine would become available for emergency use (e.g. first responders) before full testing is complete.

So you want to give a potentially unsafe vaccine to first responders and others.

Any potential downside to that?

is_that_so · 07-05-2020 01:47PM

uli84 wrote: »

350€ payment to be extended beyond mid-June, scary

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0507/1137039-taoiseach-confirms-350-payment-scheme-will-be-extended/

Common sense really, that brings us close to Phase 5. Remember it was implemented when 12 weeks seemed long enough, way in advance of the plan.

Thelonious Monk · 07-05-2020 01:48PM

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

It's hard alright. I see kids from different households outside now playing with each other, zero fcuks given.

It was like that from the start, but it's not just kids there are well heeled people in Clontarf meeting up for walks etc and not social distancing, I see it all the time.
I think if we had an actual proper lockdown that was policed properly we could be talking about opening things back up a lot sooner. I have seen the Garda do absolutely nothing to enforce anything apart from stopping a few cars, but what do we expect, we have one of the most hands off police force in the world.

is_that_so · 07-05-2020 01:52PM

boring accountant wrote: »

The government has just introduced the most draconian measures since the public safety act of 1928 and those who question it have an agenda? I think those who promote this policy unquestioningly are the ones with the agenda.

If that question has merit sure but you had better have something an awful lot better. Caution is the byword here. Who says people have been unquestioning? There are some elements of it which not been as good as could have been hoped for but if we had known .....

FintanMcluskey · 07-05-2020 01:52PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I have seen the Garda do absolutely nothing to enforce anything apart from stopping a few cars, but what do we expect, we have one of the most hands off police force in the world.

Yeah. We need more hands on police. Proper stuff, Im talking teeth missing for having tax expired on a car. Buff guys like paddygreen on the force taking no s##t

growleaves · 07-05-2020 01:54PM

NY police union warns city will 'fall apart' if enforcement of social distancing does not end

The union representing New York City’s police officers warned that the city will “fall apart” if the police force is used to enforce social distancing measures.

“This situation is untenable: the NYPD needs to get cops out of the social distancing enforcement business altogether,” Patrick Lynch, the president of the Police Benevolent Association of the City of New York, said in a statement, referring to the New York Police Department.

.@NYCPBA calls for end of @NYPDnews policing of social distancing: "As the weather heats up & the pandemic continues to unravel our social fabric, police officers should be allowed to focus on our core public safety mission. If we don’t, the city will fall apart before our eyes.” pic.twitter.com/YPYZUh4TG2
— NYC PBA (@NYCPBA) May 4, 2020

ADVERTISEMENT

The NYPD’s involvement in enforcing the city’s social distancing orders is facing scrutiny after video surfaced of an officer hitting a man in Manhattan while trying to separate people. Three men in total were arrested in the incident, and an officer is on modified duty, pending an internal review.

_Kaiser_ · 07-05-2020 01:54PM

So Leo reckons Covid may indeed have been here earlier this year/last year

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said it is possible that the coronavirus was already in Ireland last year or in January this year.

“We should not assume that it came here from Italy in late February just because the first confirmed case did so, ” he said.

Mr Varadkar said retrospective testing suggested the virus was circulation in France as far back as December last year, before it even had a name or test.

This in some ways “was not surprising as France was well connected to China with dozens of flights every day and Ireland is very connected to France,” he said.

I wonder is this the first step to moving the dates forward?

boring accountant · 07-05-2020 01:55PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

In other countries everybody is taken to a hotel for their 14 days self isolation

No choice in the matter

If anybody fails to fill up the form that should happen here and bill people for their stay afterwards

So it’s okay to compare us to other when they are more draconian but not when they’re less draconian?

seamus · 07-05-2020 01:55PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It was like that from the start, but it's not just kids there are well heeled people in Clontarf meeting up for walks etc and not social distancing, I see it all the time.
I think if we had an actual proper lockdown that was policed properly we could be talking about opening things back up a lot sooner. I have seen the Garda do absolutely nothing to enforce anything apart from stopping a few cars, but what do we expect, we have one of the most hands off police force in the world.

It's easy to get annoyed about this stuff, plenty of groups of teenagers hanging out with zero distancing.

But the reality is that we would know if the measures weren't working due to non-compliance. But they are, which would indicate that the general compliance is high, especially in the places where it matters.

As much as it feels like a kick in the teeth to see kids out playing football when all you want to do is go sit and chat with your family, you can't control the behaviour of others, and the measures are working despite these kids.

The irony is the parents of these kids are probably the same Facebook hunzos sharing rants on Facebook about social distancing and putting "StayAtHome" stickers on their profiles.

sterz · 07-05-2020 01:56PM

sterz wrote: »

Who do you go to if you have any questions regarding the roadmap published last week? I know they cannot cover every scenario but it's difficult to plan for certain businesses if you're unsure as to which phase you fall in to.

Anyone?

boring accountant · 07-05-2020 01:57PM

is_that_so wrote: »

If that question has merit sure but you had better have something an awful lot better. Caution is the byword here. Who says people have been unquestioning? There are some elements of it which not been as good as could have been hoped for but if we had known .....

I think we should be cautious towards the economy. Why do lockdowners have a monopoly on caution?

easypazz · 07-05-2020 01:58PM

hmmm wrote: »

Oxford expect to know whether their vaccine works by early July. Two Chinese vaccines have been in Phase 1/2 trials for several weeks. There are two US companies also. Pfizer put four vaccine candidates into trials just this week. Curevac in Germany hope to start in June. In many of these, animal trials have already shown they work - there has never been so many attention from major drug companies and biotechs focused on a single problem.

We'll know relatively quickly whether they work. After that, the question is how long will regulators require to ensure they are safe. This may take a long time, but a vaccine would become available for emergency use (e.g. first responders) before full testing is complete.

What planet are you on?

How about adequate PPE instead.

is_that_so · 07-05-2020 01:59PM

sterz wrote: »

Anyone?

DoH/Dept of an Taoiseach? Or you could ask on Twitter. https://twitter.com/roinnslainte

Hooked · 07-05-2020 02:01PM

uli84 wrote: »

350€ payment to be extended beyond mid-June, scary

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0507/1137039-taoiseach-confirms-350-payment-scheme-will-be-extended/

Not really scary... more 'expected' as a result of our ridiculous approach:-

By August, 1/4 of the country will have no jobs to go back to...
and their 3/6 month mortgage breaks will be gone/near an end...

A LOT of people are going to be FLAT BROKE.

You know the type... Healthy, young, under 65 years,
not living in care homes!

hmmm · 07-05-2020 02:05PM

Balf wrote: »

So you want to give a potentially unsafe vaccine to first responders and others.

Any potential downside to that?

Phase 1 trials are to establish safety and they are already underway, phase 3 extends that and already requires vaccinating large numbers of people. In the case of Ebola the vaccine was released for emergency use as part of an extended phase 3 trial in those areas directly affected, I'm sure we'll see the same with Covid.

hmmm · 07-05-2020 02:06PM

easypazz wrote: »

What planet are you on?

How about adequate PPE instead.

The best thing we can do for healthcare workers is not let the disease spread, so maybe don't lecture anyone about PPE on a thread where people are pushing for relaxing restrictions and evaluating the "economic use" of people.

07-05-2020 02:07PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

In other countries everybody is taken to a hotel for their 14 days self isolation

No choice in the matter

If anybody fails to fill up the form that should happen here and bill people for their stay afterwards

Hardly any countries do this. Can you name a single European country that does? France don't even require intra-EU travellers residents to self quarantine at all upon arrival. Italy have said they are going to open up. Germany has the same rule as us. I don't see us going out on a limb here, especially when we have a land border that would be impossible to police anyway. The rules are fine, and in line with most other countries. It is just about enforcement....collect the forms before you go through immigration and fines if the info is wrong or you're not contactable

Ginger n Lemon · 07-05-2020 02:07PM

Here, I only wish the best for people on these forums, please do not under any circumstance consider any vaccines from China. Regardless which side of lockdown you are on.

"
A Chinese vaccination firm has been fined $1.3bn (£988m) after it was found to have illegally produced the human rabies vaccine.

Changchun Changsheng had blended different batches of vaccine fluid and used expired fluid to produce some of the batches, according to state news agency Xinhua.

The company also falsified production data for the vaccine.

This is not the first major vaccine scandal to hit China."

tobefrank321 · 07-05-2020 02:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Some other countries - most do not

Several of the countries with low numbers of deaths do. They are very strict about it.

It is proven to work. So there's zero chance of it being brought in here.

A lockdown isn't a proper lockdown if you don't quarantine people coming in.

At the moment we are stuck in a no mans land with a half assed lockdown which is costing lives and ruining our economy.

Either the government lock down borders and quarantine people coming in or they might as well just forget about lockdown.

As it stands our lockdown is about as useful as drinking soup with a fork.

easypazz · 07-05-2020 02:16PM

Hooked wrote: »

Not really scary... more 'expected' as a result of our ridiculous approach:-

By August, 1/4 of the country will have no jobs to go back to...
and their 3/6 month mortgage breaks will be gone/near an end...

A LOT of people are going to be FLAT BROKE.

You know the type... Healthy, young, under 65 years,
not living in care homes!

And the care homes will have the paw out next, they will have increased operating costs and a lot of their customers are deceased.

The universities were at it the other day with the paw out.

The pharmacies too.

This is becoming an endless cycle.

NetChat101 · 07-05-2020 02:17PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It was like that from the start, but it's not just kids there are well heeled people in Clontarf meeting up for walks etc and not social distancing, I see it all the time.
I think if we had an actual proper lockdown that was policed properly we could be talking about opening things back up a lot sooner. I have seen the Garda do absolutely nothing to enforce anything apart from stopping a few cars, but what do we expect, we have one of the most hands off police force in the world.

Yeah, I think a lot of people just did their own version of lockdown - "Lockdown Lite".

07-05-2020 02:19PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Several of the countries with low numbers of deaths do. They are very strict about it.

It is proven to work. So there's zero chance of it being brought in here.

A lockdown isn't a proper lockdown if you don't quarantine people coming in.

At the moment we are stuck in a no mans land with a half assed lockdown which is costing lives and ruining our economy.

Either the government lock down borders and quarantine people coming in or they might as well just forget about lockdown.

As it stands our lockdown is about as useful as drinking soup with a fork.

Do you have evidence for any of this, or is it just your musings?

easypazz · 07-05-2020 02:19PM

hmmm wrote: »

The best thing we can do for healthcare workers is not let the disease spread, so maybe don't lecture anyone about PPE on a thread where people are pushing for relaxing restrictions and evaluating the "economic use" of people.

There won't be any money for healthcare workers if we don't relax restrictions at some point.

We won't be able to afford your dodgy vaccine either.

tobefrank321 · 07-05-2020 02:21PM

hmmm wrote: »

Oxford expect to know whether their vaccine works by early July. Two Chinese vaccines have been in Phase 1/2 trials for several weeks. There are two US companies also. Pfizer put four vaccine candidates into trials just this week. Curevac in Germany hope to start in June. In many of these, animal trials have already shown they work - there has never been so many attention from major drug companies and biotechs focused on a single problem.

We'll know relatively quickly whether they work. After that, the question is how long will regulators require to ensure they are safe. This may take a long time, but a vaccine would become available for emergency use (e.g. first responders) before full testing is complete.

Would you take a rushed vaccine based on limited trials in humans?

Realistically there isn't going to be a vaccine until at least January 1st next year and for good reason.

The vast majority of young people will have no serious complications from covid 19. The same cannot be said of a rushed vaccine. There might be an argument for giving the vaccine to the over 80 age group who may not have to suffer a long life of potentially bad side effects from a rushed vaccine.

And before you say it, no I am not anti vaccines.

tobefrank321 · 07-05-2020 02:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you have evidence for any of this, or is it just your musings?

How I hate posts like this.

Evidence for what? Can you be more specific? Instead of a generalised generic "have you evidence for this?" type post.

I've no problem arguing specific points in detail, if you pick out those points.

boring accountant · 07-05-2020 02:24PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Would you take a rushed vaccine based on limited trials in humans?

Realistically there isn't going to be a vaccine until at least January 1st next year and for good reason.

The vast majority of young people will have no serious complications from covid 19. The same cannot be said of a rushed vaccine. There might be an argument for giving the vaccine to the over 80 age group who may not have to suffer a long life of potentially bad side effects from a rushed vaccine.

And before you say it, no I am not anti vaccines.

I agree. The swine flu vaccine has been linked (by credible official sources) to narcolepsy. No one could have seen that coming. The effects of covid on me are quite predictable so I’ll take my chances on that over an untested vaccine.

As a side note, I’m 100% in favour of vaccination in principle.

07-05-2020 02:35PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How I hate posts like this.

Evidence for what? Can you be more specific? Instead of a generalised generic "have you evidence for this?" type post.

I've no problem arguing specific points in detail, if you pick out those points.

okay then. Here's a list

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

With the exception of New Zealand (and lets not keep doing the nonsensical Ireland - NZ comparison), can you point to any country comparable to Ireland that mandatory quarantines its arrivals (rather than requires self isolation). I can point to Djibouti, Mongolia (21 days in a government facility followed by 14 days at home!!!), Albania and other such places, and if that's your model, then fine. Some, though by no means all, of our peer countries still prohibit arrivals that are not residents or citizens or on essential business (and, for now, I don't think that there would be too many of us with a problem with that), but mandatory quarantine is just not done anywhere

Why do you think no-one is doing it and why do you think that we should go out on a limb and mandatory quarantine arrivals? We have the legislation, we have the forms, we have the Gardai to follow up.....that's all we need

ChelseaRentBoy · 07-05-2020 02:41PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Several of the countries with low numbers of deaths do. They are very strict about it.

It is proven to work. So there's zero chance of it being brought in here.

A lockdown isn't a proper lockdown if you don't quarantine people coming in.

At the moment we are stuck in a no mans land with a half assed lockdown which is costing lives and ruining our economy.

Either the government lock down borders and quarantine people coming in or they might as well just forget about lockdown.

As it stands our lockdown is about as useful as drinking soup with a fork.

Exactly. We are stuck in no man's land.

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Comments