Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The statement that those countries have "opened up their economies" is not true either.

They have taken minimal initial steps in a graduated approach each to varying degrees. They are not functioning normally, far from it.

And they are on notice to increase the measures they lift over the next few months again should cases and transmission spike.

There is a lot of simplistic fake news going around (mostly by anti government illumunati cranks) that's being picked up by reasonably intelligent people who just have certain vulnerabilities to the impact (employment or whatever)...and that's fine, some are worried.

It does not change the reality of the situation though and ridiculous remedies like "how many people have died since April 21st" are not impressive either given the nature of the risks.

It's all ludicrous argument but you have to except that. It's a tiny minority and no matter what you say they don't listen anyway.

So just let them roll with it in my humble opinion.

It does not change anything.

Nature of the risks? is this Irish for "Lets stay at home and put young generation into poverty?"

Kermit, has any country on this planet experienced a second wave? If no, are you just scaring us and want us to be in Guinness world book of records for longest lockdown?

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Kermit could we work with facts please instead of science? Science predicted 65,000 dead from Swine flu in UK, 392 died. So, pass.

Ok so Denmark, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Norway, Finland have all opened up their economies, schools opened since 14th of April in Denmark, barbers 21st of April.

Where are those spikes? where is the 2nd wave?? Why are thousands of people not dying in those countries? Why is Bundesliga going to play its games on 16th of May, are they mad?

Ohhh the dreaded 2nd wave, must be applicable in Ireland only?

The governments roadmap is way too slow imo, they seem to think they can afford it and it will work, but if we have to roll back it will be even more of an economic nightmare. One thing to note on those other countries opening up, is that mask wearing seems to be common at least on public transport and in shops. Here, they're only gonna recommend it, if at all, and you can already see the attitude of "well, you better give them out free or I wont wear one" which I worry about. Same attitude of people who think they're beating the system as the restrictions cant be policed, when in reality they're just prolonging the whole thing which causes more economic damage.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I dont think so. I actually think that German government are so confident this is not a deadly disease that they are allowing 22 guys get in close contact with each other for 90 minutes. On 1 corner you ll easily have 18 lads grappling with each other.

You are right, 10 players from 1734 tested did have covid19 and are now isolated. And its still going ahead. And thats wonderful. We need strong leaders like Germany have, who are not going to be flip flopping their strategy based on "models" or "estimates" or "dreaded 2nd wave might come, lets give it 3 more months stay at home to save lives and put people into poverty".

Nothing in this post has anything to do with Easypazz being disingenuous. You are making a separate point.

lord quackinton wrote: »

I am sure this link has been posted already but please I encourage everyone to read it very slowly and think about all the numbers involved
When the Covid 350 and the wage subsidy ends there will be mayhem
This jolly is going to cost us our children’s futures
I hope all the lockdown supporters on here can forgive themselves for the carnage that is coming

Everyone realises there is an economic impact of the measures taken.

I'm hopeful the overall IFR is lower than thought, but there is no way to avoid this overloading our health system if we let it spread unchecked. What number of deaths from Covid would you consider to be an acceptable cost in return for removing some/all of the restrictions?

JoeA3 wrote: »

Ivan Yeats is on fire! Newstalk right now...

What was he saying?

lord quackinton wrote: »

I am sure this link has been posted already but please I encourage everyone to read it very slowly and think about all the numbers involved
When the Covid 350 and the wage subsidy ends there will be mayhem
This jolly is going to cost us our children’s futures
I hope all the lockdown supporters on here can forgive themselves for the carnage that is coming

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136475-covid19-coronavirus-industry/

Out of curiosity, what do you think the economy would look like if the virus wasn't mitigated against? There will likely be an inevitable global recession because most countries have taken similar measures. Think of how much worse it would be without them. Hopefully once people are back into work, cafes, pubs, restaurants start to reopen and economy picks up but yes there will likely be tough economic consequences which I think everyone is aware of.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

What was he saying?

Worth a listen back... it was the intro to his show at 4pm, but I'm sure he'll be talking more about it through the show.

He was saying that he was relieved that the powers that be pushed back on NPHET and Tony H, that despite the conservative "road map", that at least there's now an air of what we can do, rather than what we can't do. He also had an amusing dig at civil servants, teachers, etc, who are probably only too happy to sit on their backsides and get paid for months on end...

uli84 wrote: »

Workers aged under 35 account for over 43% of recipients of the payment.

well, hello, how many under 35 died to date? Not too many id say. That sums up why extending this is bad in so many ways

Indeed, so much wasted energy and potential all wasted for nothing.

A few things came to my attention yesterday that seem to be glossed over a little too quickly here..
1. A case has come to light in France dating all the way back to December 27th 2019..if this is the case - person in hospital wards, no PPE, isolation procedures, etc - it stands to reason it was all over France within weeks if it is as infectious as claimed...it also begs the question - how long has Covid 19 been around, and what is the true level of infection in populations and death rate? Was France's peak weeks ago?
France is an EU country, with many flights to Ireland...do the maths. All hospitals need to re-examine cases as far back as last October so we can all get a clear picture.
2. If Ireland's lockdown is so much more 'successful' than the U.K., why are they re-opening schools, etc. before us - on a phased basis. What exactly are NPHET playing at here, and who is their advice coming from? I think the New Zealand Prime Minister likes to praise herself a lot - but she makes a fair point re Ireland's lockdown being painfully slow to come out of.. Joe Duffy said earlier Spain are pushing FORWARD their re-opening as they've had no surge. Neither have Denmark...why is this data not being applied to Ireland?
3. The sooner we get a government the better - but if they don't act fast and start lifting this unnecessary lockdown, they'll have no money and no economy to manage. Paschal & co. better not start with the poor mouth worst recession, tax hikes, etc. talk - because I want to go back to work and earn a living and I am not willing to pay for this unnecessary catastrophe.
4. When did we as a population decide it is ok to treat children and young people the way we currently are. Children cannot leave a 2km zone for weeks, now a measly 5km. They cannot play and interact with friends - screen interactions are not a substitute for young children, teenagers and young people are being vilified for sitting in a park sunning themselves...while staying in groups 2 metres apart...has anyone thought of the consequences this lockdown is going to have on them long-term...nearly 6 months of formal education missed on top of it. Pensioners avoiding and acting strangely around children on walks, they will pick up on it and it's not right.
5. Over the course of history - where did any government implement a policy to save 80+ year olds, while putting the rest of their fit and healthy populations inside and out of work - destroying income, productivity, mental & physical well-being. Yes some people are at risk, they need to take pre-cautions. This is stating the obvious to me...
6. How can Ireland afford to donate millions to a Global Bill Gates Vaccine initiative - why were the public not consulted about this?

lord quackinton wrote: »

If we had not locked down we would have had 2500 deaths max

Hows that? If they're correct that we have 10x more cases, so 200k cases, maybe more, doesnt that mean we'd have current deaths x~20, and that assumes we'd be able to treat all those that need treating.

JoeA3 wrote: »

Worth a listen back... it was the intro to his show at 4pm, but I'm sure he'll be talking more about it through the show.

He was saying that he was relieved that the powers that be pushed back on NPHET and Tony H, that despite the conservative "road map", that at least there's now an air of what we can do, rather than what we can't do. He also had an amusing dig at civil servants, teachers, etc, who are probably only too happy to sit on their backsides and get paid for months on end...

Everytime there's economic trouble, people in the private sector come for teachers. Pick up a form and apply for a job in Education. Easy peasy trying to organise daily activities and education remotely for classes, while minding and teaching ones own children. I'm working in Education and I'm dying to get back to work. I think this lockdown is madness and I cannot stand the way children and young people have been treated in this whole situation. It's turning out they're not even the 'super-spreaders' they were made out to be, just picking up infections off parents.
I'm sick of the dis-respect from people towards teachers, I personally find parents who post such remarks rude and obnoxious, and whose children have zero respect or life skills themselves. It doesn't do you or your child any favours and gives them a bad name...