Relaxation of restrictions Part II

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Is it nonsense though? Was it not actually proven on the first weekend after the restrictions were implemented when many videos circulated of people not social distancing?

It is nonsense. The deadly disease brigade will tell you Swedes are locked up and are voluntarily staying home.

When in reality, out of population of 5m of Ireland or 10m of Sweden you will have 100,000 + disregarding ANY rules you impose. This thread is talking about idealism of - hey, lockdown, people stay at home unless exercising or getting food. Reality = house parties. That will be the case even if Leo puts on a gardai uniform and starts walking door to door doing checks.

Crocked wrote: »

You said hospital capacity increases by four fold or more, that is patiently not true. There is neither the staff or space to do that. That's why the western world shut down their economies and built some extra capacity as best they could. The fact our efforts were so far successful in reducing the need to the extra capacity should be lauded. We got fairly close to using up all ICU capacity as it was.

Good to know thousands of people dying is grand for you though, cause sure they'd have died anyway!!

Well the fact that you created 22% unemployment in the state should also be lauded. 14% permanent unemployment September onward into the next year. How many suicide deaths will occur from us sitting at home and putting younger generation into poverty? how many drug addicts will we create? Leo will not even give you an estimate, because it would be much higher than 1300.

And younger generation has 50 + years ahead of them. Government has made a huge error and it will be very clear in a matter of 6 months from now.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well the fact that you created 22% unemployment in the state should also be lauded. 14% permanent unemployment September onward into the next year. How many suicide deaths will occur from us sitting at home and putting younger generation into poverty? how many drug addicts will we create? Leo will not even give you an estimate, because it would be much higher than 1300.

And younger generation has 50 + years ahead of them. Government has made a huge error and it will be very clear in a matter of 6 months from now.

What would you have done and when?

hmmm wrote: »

Your big plan is instead of telling people what they should be doing in the face of a new pandemic, you're going to tell them to use "cop on" and "common sense"?

OK.

Yes...you know, the kind of common sense that had the crowds heading for Cheltenham and packing out pubs in Dublin even after virus warnings had been given.


.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

When in reality, out of population of 5m of Ireland or 10m of Sweden you will have 100,000 + disregarding ANY rules you impose. This thread is talking about idealism of - hey, lockdown, people stay at home unless exercising or getting food. Reality = house parties. That will be the case even if Leo puts on a gardai uniform and starts walking door to door doing checks.

You just pulled those numbers from your bottom (or somewhere worse!) to try and make a poor argument.

On the "reality = house parties" I don't think so. Not from what I've seen, its relaxed a bit I think last few days, more people out and about I think but the sun has been splitting the stones.

If I may pull figures out of my own fundament/go on anecdote I'd say people egregiously flouting restrictions/actively trying to spread this virus by gathering close together in groups, hosting parties etc would be more like 1 % or even fewer. Fear is a very good motivator.

I don't think anyone knows (yet) exactly why the virus has behaved exactly as it has in different countries. Imagine it is going to be subject of alot of research.

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened here if we'd done nothing/far less (as regards the "lockdown"/enforced closures of businesses, restrictions of public gatherings etc) at an official level. There is that fear thing again, where if hospitals started to fill up with patients & people's elderly relatives were being struck down in droves, joe public may not be inclined to just ignore it & soilder on in their job/going out and about + enjoying themselves for sake of the economy.

We can look at the UK which is our closest comparator which acted a bit more slowly than us, and does seem to have been hit somewhat harder.

Cina wrote: »

To be clear, I didn't at any point argue that our roadmap isn't overly restrictive compared to other countries, only that it's wrong to underestimate how dangerous this virus actually is if nothing is done about it or if people start to become too lax about it.

But why are we assuming that we are being lax about it?

You mentioned comparisons with other countries for example.

Its obvious every country has to take it seriously and take the appropriate measures.

What no one seems to know is that for some reason we have to be far more restrictive and take far more restrictive measures in our country compared to almost every other country in the world even those that were hit way more than us.

If we have to take the measures we are taking then so be it, if we have to be far more restrictive than other countries and more careful then so be it.

But do people not wonder why?

Is our Health Service such a mess that we have to?
Have we made mistakes along the way?
Is it more serious here than in other countries even though the numbers dont back that up?

Cina wrote: »

I agree a middle ground is needed, whatever that is. Our roadmap is overly slow and restrictive. At the same time I think it's dangerous to try downplay this virus now after we've successfully implemented measures to curb its progress.

Italy and Spain had to lock their people indoors completely for two months because their health services were collapsing under coronavirus, but people seem eager to forget that. We shouldn't underestimate what this virus can do if measures aren't in place.

To what extent were the Spanish and Italian health services overwhelmed due to mass health care worker shortages.
Foreign staff returning home, parents at home minding children instead of them being in school and covid positive workers.
If a standard flu season puts hospital staff under pressure, a large staff shortage at a very busy time will cause carnage like what was seen

kippy wrote: »

What would you have done and when?

I would protect the at risk group. I would literally impose lockdowns on people with asthma and over 60 year olds. I would strongly suggest that there is no interaction between elderly and the young until a vaccine or a treatment drug is developed. These arent nice measures but have to be done.

I would encourage public to wash their hands more frequently and follow social distancing where it is possible. And shut down any large public gatherings (1000 + people at concerts etc) temporarily.

We have young, healthy population who can survive HIV let alone a 0.65% mortality virus. Why keep them indoors and let their immune system degrade?
Our immune systems develop through our interaction with the world, with good bacteria and bad bacteria, not through sitting at home watching netflix.

Asal beag dubh wrote: »

Even if you think that a righteous cull of older people who are on death's door anyway is justifiable ... on the tenuous grounds that it's a fair trade off for getting the economy back up and running and for younger people's mental health ...... please take a look at some of the videos that front line healthcare workers have been posting from areas that are overwhelmed from the virus. These people are on the brink. Some have died due to their efforts (from the virus or suicide) and many will probably suffer from some form of PTSD for years to come. These people didn't sign up for this level of risk/stress/trauma but they keep going. Many are still posting messages pleading with people to stay at home. Thankfully we haven't reached this level in Ireland but we weren't far off it - many, many HCW have been sick from COVID. We need to protect them and make sure that if there is a spike, that they're available and have the capacity and energy to deal with it. Please show some consideration.

Its tragic dont get me wrong. Its tragic that Ireland has had 65 times more deaths than New Zealand given identical population size. Am I angry? yes. Do i think government have failed us? yes. Do i think that we should continue making mistakes of sitting at home and wait for a virus to go away? no.

I work in a large department store which sells homewares, seasonal product and clothing. What phase of reopening do ppl think we would fall into? At first I was resigned to June 29th but now I'm not so sure.

mooseknunkle wrote: »

I followed the restrictions for the first 4 weeks and done my part,two weeks ago i started going for longer walks well outside of the 2km radius just me and my dog ,today i got a haircut from a barber and im going to travel over 100km to meet up with a friend sometime tomorrow.

I've given up on these restrictions and won't be following them any longer,best to luck to anyone on here whos willing to sit on their hands at home for the next 3 months and believe everything the government is telling them.

Friend of mine going to take her 7 week old first born to see Granny for the first time today outside the 20KM zone (with distancing, masks etc).
she would normally be very non-rebellious and follow all the rules, was initially hoping for May 5th to be allowed do this, but wuth the news and figures in the week leading up to it, she was prepared for that to be delayed by a few weeks even to end of the month, but the July 20th nonsense made up her mind for her very quickly.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Its tragic dont get me wrong. Its tragic that Ireland has had 65 times more deaths than New Zealand given identical population size. Am I angry? yes. Do i think government have failed us? yes. Do i think that we should continue making mistakes of sitting at home and wait for a virus to go away? no.

Yep, we should have had the same levels of restrictions as New Zealand and even earlier so events like the national league matches, Cheltenham and champions league games didnt happen when they did.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/how-new-zealand-brought-new-coronavirus-cases-down-to-zero.html

But do you think everyone would have been content, at the time, of those levels of restrictions

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

The part of your post that I highlighted in bold is I believe very relevant to what has happened (so far) in Austria since the easing of restrictions there. The wearing of masks will not apply here or at least there are no plans for it to.

pretty simple thing to implement though? they can literally decree that you have to wear a mask or get fined, suddenly everyone will wear them.

should be mandatory in supermarkets / hardware stores imo, not in the open.