Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Turtwig · 03-05-2020 01:02PM

iguana wrote: »

That is the plan with the most promising vaccines though isn't it. Mass production before it's known if they are definitely effective. If they are proven effective, then great we are ready to go. If not they are scrapped. It's a massive waste of money if they have to be scrapped but the time saving if they work is worth so much more that the risk is worth it. We did all this 11 years ago. The turn around on the H1N1 vaccine was so rapid that if the Covid vaccine was as fast, mass vaccines would be starting in a few weeks. Which they won't. But if they are ready in the next few months it won't be historically fast.

It won't be historically and yet it could be.
This is very nuanced. H1N1 was really similar to previous flu strain in 1977 so vaccine production was comparatively easy. That said there were still issues. Swine flu caused narcolepsy in some cases. People who were given the live vaccine were exposed to this potential, albeit at a much lesser risk.

This is a novel virus. Many of vaccines in development are using novel methods. In that context their production and development would be historically fast. One of the biggest positives that may come from this pandemic is the effective development of RNA vaccines. That it took a global pandemic for it happen however should be held as a constant black mark against us.:(

Discodog · 03-05-2020 01:03PM

Strumms wrote: »

To do a job, which in the instance shown they didn’t have the required resources to do.

Like sending Roger Federer into Wimbledon without a racket.

Maybe if they didn't have so many pointless checkpoints it would free up Gardai to deal with the real issues.

Gael23 · 03-05-2020 01:03PM

Heads on plates time
https://extra.ie/2020/05/03/news/irish-news/everybodys-worst-nightmare-family-given-wrong-body-after-covid-19-mix-up-in-irish-hospital

Stheno · 03-05-2020 01:04PM

In an interview with the Indo Cillian de Gascun says the plan for widespread antibody testing so they can gauge how widespread the infection is in the community is to start doing it in June

Sorry it's actually the IT https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/cillian-de-gascun-team-sports-are-going-to-be-in-a-very-difficult-position-1.4243847?mode=amp

wakka12 · 03-05-2020 01:06PM

GT89 wrote: »

So you are admitting what I'm saying is true basically. It's only killing the elderly and people with under lying health conditions that's the truth. The response to this is completely riddiculous and over exagerated

No, I replied with actual proof that the vast vast majority of COVID patients died because of the disease, not with COVID. versus your 'hunch' that they would die anyway and just happened to have COVID.

Elderly and having health conditions means relatively little without further clarification, you can have underlying conditions which put you at much greater risk but the diseases themselves have no impact on lifespan in normal circumstances when treated correctly such as hypertension, and you can be elderly and have 20 years left to live under normal circumstances. COVID is taking many years of life from these groups of people

Turtwig · 03-05-2020 01:07PM

iguana wrote: »

That is the plan with the most promising vaccines though isn't it. Mass production before it's known if they are definitely effective. If they are proven effective, then great we are ready to go. If not they are scrapped. It's a massive waste of money if they have to be scrapped but the time saving if they work is worth so much more that the risk is worth it. We did all this 11 years ago. The turn around on the H1N1 vaccine was so rapid that if the Covid vaccine was as fast, mass vaccines would be starting in a few weeks. Which they won't. But if they are ready in the next few months it won't be historically fast.

It won't be historically and yet it could be.
This is very nuanced. H1N1 was really similar to previous flu strain in 1977 so vaccine production was comparatively easy. That said there were still issues. Swine flu caused narcolepsy in some cases. People who were given the live vaccine were exposed to this potential, albeit at a much lesser risk.

This is a novel virus. Many of vaccines in development are using novel methods. In that context their production and development would be historically fast. One of the biggest positives that may come from this pandemic is the effective development of RNA vaccines. That it took a global pandemic for it happen however should be held as a constant black mark against us.:(

yew_tree · 03-05-2020 01:10PM

alexv wrote: »

Less used back roads around towns should be pedestrianized to encourage people to safely exercise while respecting social distancing measures.

This should become a permanent arrangement.

That’s one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen. Every back road has homes and farm land along them...are you gonna stop people driving to their homes and farmers to their land? You didn’t think that one out.

ChelseaRentBoy · 03-05-2020 01:17PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Heads on plates time
https://extra.ie/2020/05/03/news/irish-news/everybodys-worst-nightmare-family-given-wrong-body-after-covid-19-mix-up-in-irish-hospital

You've never made a mistake ?

yogmeister · 03-05-2020 01:21PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-scientists-conclude-people-cannot-be-infected-twice-11981721

Coronavirus: Scientists conclude people cannot be infected twice :pac:

No they don't. They conclude they haven't relapsed.

Plumbthedepths · 03-05-2020 01:22PM

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

You've never made a mistake ?

I've put colours in with whites, is my mistake in the same category as giving a grieving family the wrong body?

Ficheall · 03-05-2020 01:22PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Heads on plates time
https://extra.ie/2020/05/03/news/irish-news/everybodys-worst-nightmare-family-given-wrong-body-after-covid-19-mix-up-in-irish-hospital

Head photoshopped into lab for some reason..

Fann Linn · 03-05-2020 01:24PM

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

You've never made a mistake ?

That's some mistake.

Sincerest sympathies to deceased family.

alexv · 03-05-2020 01:25PM

yew_tree wrote: »

That’s one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen. Every back road has homes and farm land along them...are you gonna stop people driving to their homes and farmers to their land? You didn’t think that one out.

I've walked plenty of stretches of road in Ireland with not one residential or farm entrance. Presumably you'd have no objection to closing those off to traffic?
Speaking of farms, it's about time Ireland adopted a measure similar to Sweden's freedom to roam principle.

https://visitsweden.com/what-to-do/nature-outdoors/nature/sustainable-and-rural-tourism/freedomtoroam/

Plumbthedepths · 03-05-2020 01:28PM

alexv wrote: »

I've walked plenty of stretches of road in Ireland with not one residential or farm entrance. Presumably you'd have no objection to closing those off to traffic?
Speaking of farms, it's about time Ireland adopted a measure similar to Sweden's freedom to roam principle.

https://visitsweden.com/what-to-do/nature-outdoors/nature/sustainable-and-rural-tourism/freedomtoroam/

I've ran marathons all over Ireland most of them are on quite country roads yet every single road I ran on had houses or field entrances, where are these roads you have walked that someone just decided to lay for no purpose?

cameramonkey · 03-05-2020 01:30PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I've ran marathons all over Ireland most of them are on quite country roads yet every single road I ran on had houses or field entrances, where are these roads you have walked that someone just decided to lay for no purpose?

Parts of the military roads in Dublin and Wicklow have virtually no houses on them.

Plumbthedepths · 03-05-2020 01:32PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

Parts of the military roads in Dublin and Wicklow have virtually no houses on them.

No entrances to fields or forest? The state didn't and doesn't lay roads for the crack, it's an expensive undertaking.

Snow Garden · 03-05-2020 01:32PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Heads on plates time
https://extra.ie/2020/05/03/news/irish-news/everybodys-worst-nightmare-family-given-wrong-body-after-covid-19-mix-up-in-irish-hospital

Nope. There is no accountability in Ireland.
Same will happen when an inquiry is opened on why nursing homes were prioritised so late.

Plumbthedepths · 03-05-2020 01:40PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

Nope. There is no accountability in Ireland.
Same will happen when an inquiry is opened on why nursing homes were prioritised so late.

Not just nursing homes,

Covid-19 outbreaks confirmed in 100 disability settings https://jrnl.ie/5090731

speckle · 03-05-2020 01:53PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not just nursing homes,

Covid-19 outbreaks confirmed in 100 disability settings https://jrnl.ie/5090731

Always the last mental health settings.... still haven't even implemented the vision for change document... My thoughts with them and their familys.

bodhrandude · 03-05-2020 01:53PM

Just heard on RTE radio 1 that authorities mixed up the remains of a covid victim and gave their family the wrong body for burial at Mullingar hospital.

alexv · 03-05-2020 02:02PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I've ran marathons all over Ireland most of them are on quite country roads yet every single road I ran on had houses or field entrances, where are these roads you have walked that someone just decided to lay for no purpose?

*I've run

Silent Running · 03-05-2020 02:04PM

magic17 wrote: »

All the scaremongers will be gutted

That's a bit harsh... but I could get behind it.

Plumbthedepths · 03-05-2020 02:07PM

alexv wrote: »

*I've run

Ok you corrected my post now maybe you can tell me where are all these roads that have no houses or field entrances on them? Or can I assume you just posted nonsense?

BorneTobyWilde · 03-05-2020 02:12PM

snoopboggybog wrote: »

I'm here in the US, 5 states are going to be fecked for quite a while from why i can gather, and I'm in one of them. Giving it till the end of May and I'm fecking home then.

What 5 states

BorneTobyWilde · 03-05-2020 02:16PM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Here we go ramp up testing ramp up testing weekly mantra.

The swab up the nose is bad enough, this Ramp up testing is far worse

speckle · 03-05-2020 02:19PM

Laugh if you want to... anybody know easiest way to cook rhubarb?

Beasty · 03-05-2020 02:28PM

alexv wrote: »

*I've run

Cut out the grammar naziism and discuss the topic

Renjit · 03-05-2020 02:41PM

speckle wrote: »

Laugh if you want to... anybody know easiest way to cook rhubarb?

Steam it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 03-05-2020 02:44PM

iguana wrote: »

Well that's a bullshït article. Take this for example, "We've never accelerated a vaccine in a year to 18 months," Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, tells CNN. "It doesn't mean it's impossible, but it will be quite a heroic achievement." And yet in 2009, the H1N1 vaccine was created, tested and mass vaccination began in 5 months. Yes, the creation of a flu vaccine is different, because it's an adaptation of an existing flu vaccine but clinical trials and mass production were all done and completed in that time.

Yeah but, and I say this as a passionate proponent of vaccines, rushing through the H1N1 vaccine was not without problems. I doubt very much that the testing done on H1N1 was as rigorous as it should have been. In fact, it would be impossible to carry out the full amount of testing needed in the timescale you mention. Putting pressure on companies and researchers to whittle down their testing is hardly something to celebrate. Rushing through thalidomide with insufficient testing was what caused the issues with foetuses. Thalidomide isn't a vaccine of course but any kind of medication or preventative medicine that is introduced to the body should be rigorously tested. It's not just for the craic. I realise they are allowing covid19 to bypass some of the testing and, honestly, that really concerns me.

And the article is also right that whilst a vaccine is likely, it's not a given and it's not just the intractable HIV virus that there hasn't been a vaccine developed for. I don't see what's so controversial about stating that. Surely contingency plans should be made for the possibility that a vaccine won't be found?

Turtwig · 03-05-2020 02:56PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yeah but, and I say this as a passionate proponent of vaccines, rushing through the H1N1 vaccine was not without problems. I doubt very much that the testing done on H1N1 was as rigorous as it should have been. In fact, it would be impossible to carry out the full amount of testing needed in the timescale you mention. Putting pressure on companies and researchers to whittle down their testing is hardly something to celebrate. Rushing through thalidomide with insufficient testing was what caused the issues with foetuses. Thalidomide isn't a vaccine of course but any kind of medication or preventative medicine that is introduced to the body should be rigorously tested. It's not just for the craic. I realise they are allowing covid19 to bypass some of the testing and, honestly, that really concerns me.

And the article is also right that whilst a vaccine is likely, it's not a given and it's not just the intractable HIV virus that there hasn't been a vaccine developed for. I don't see what's so controversial about stating that. Surely contingency plans should be made for the possibility that a vaccine won't be found?

Thalimonide is such an interesting example if any one has anytime I suggest they read up on Frances Kelsey.
tl;dr Amazing Woman in U.S who resisted pressure from politicans, pharma and lobby groups to approve Thalomide.

A vaccine most probably will be found because for most things vaccines haven't been found for it's a matter of cost. Simply put vaccines don't make really money. A vaccine for SARS nCoV-2 would. Only for viruses like HIV where it mutates on a daily basis would a vaccine prove difficult. Nothing to suggest the current novel coronavirus has such characteristics. Regardless, contingency planning for a vaccine not being available for at least 36 months is very much happening. Realistically, if a novel vaccine or antiviral has to be designed and tested it would be at least two years before any such viable treatment would be available. Right now all that's happening is pre-existing treatments, or those already in developmment, are being repurposed for this virus and we hope they work.

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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