Relaxation of restrictions Part II

bloodless_coup · 02-05-2020 09:20PM

The golf isn’t the biggest problem there necessarily.
You drive 240km and you need to stop for fuel. That’s an unnecessary stop.
You drive 240km that takes maybe 3 hours, play golf for 4/5 hours and you have an 8/9 hour day so you need food as well. That’s an unnecessary stop.

You put more cars on the road you risk more accidents. That’s unnecessary.

You can look at anything in isolation and make a case for it, but you need to look at the bigger picture.

Need to get petrol at some stage even if you are driving with your 5km area.

Bring food in a cooler / lunch box.

_Kaiser_ · 02-05-2020 09:25PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The golf isn’t the biggest problem there necessarily.
You drive 240km and you need to stop for fuel. That’s an unnecessary stop.
You drive 240km that takes maybe 3 hours, play golf for 4/5 hours and you have an 8/9 hour day so you need food as well. That’s an unnecessary stop.

You put more cars on the road you risk more accidents. That’s unnecessary.

You can look at anything in isolation and make a case for it, but you need to look at the bigger picture.

Or, you could consider these as essential to keeping those businesses open that - so long as precautions are taken by both customer and business - pose minimal health risk but significant economic benefits.

The truth that is continuously ignored here is that this virus has an extremely low mortality rate, almost exclusively in a particular demographic, and that the vast majority of the population will recover just fine even if they do get it.

The only thing stopping me from travelling at the moment is the checkpoints. That's not because I'm a rebel, but because the risk to me or anyone else by me driving alone from A-B to an empty house and back is non-existent.

FintanMcluskey · 02-05-2020 09:25PM

bloodless_coup wrote: »

Need to get petrol at some stage even if you are driving with your 5km area.

Bring food in a cooler / lunch box.

Putting petrol in a car is not an activity thats been made any more dangerous due to covid, or will be made any safer because Leo said its ok to drive.

Some of the opinions here are utterly baffling

gormdubhgorm · 02-05-2020 09:25PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

What this thread has descended into is essentially this.

I’m going to ignore / bend the rules because, I’m sick of the rules, I know better, I’ve adapted my own precautions, they experts don’t have a clue, the restrictions are unnecessary.

Justify your breaking of necessary restrictions all you want to yourself but this disease is invisible for large periods of time that it’s spreading.

You may not be vulnerable because you don’t have underlying conditions but many many people do, your going to spread it and more people will die.

Maybe you don’t have grandparents, or give a **** about anyone else’s, maybe your don’t Know anyone with poor immune systems But they do exist.

So go about your business, and spit on the most vulnerable that exist.

Good series on netflix about the covid19. Only watched the first one. But they did mention that viruses that are asymptomatic and are not as vicious as the likes of the Spanish flu 1918 - spread more.
Because -
1) People do not realise they have it
2) It is not bad enough to make the person stay at home
3) The person thinks they just have a cold.

It was interesting that they mentioned the St Louis v Philadelphia differing attitudes to the Spanish Flu 1918.

https://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-how-st-louis-vs-philadelphia-treated-1918-flu-pandemic-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

St Louis went into lockdown flattened the curve. But St Louis lifted it's social distancing measures too soon and they had a second spike. Had to lockdown a second time.

normanoffside · 02-05-2020 09:27PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It appears the department of health have stated golf falls within the 5km limit. That will stop a large percentage of golfers returning on the 18 may. Very few dubliners live within 5km of their golf course.

The golf isn’t the biggest problem there necessarily.
You drive 240km and you need to stop for fuel. That’s an unnecessary stop.
You drive 240km that takes maybe 3 hours, play golf for 4/5 hours and you have an 8/9 hour day so you need food as well. That’s an unnecessary stop.

You put more cars on the road you risk more accidents. That’s unnecessary.

You can look at anything in isolation and make a case for it, but you need to look at the bigger picture.

Better just stay in bed and not eat until there is a vaccine.

Every time you eat you have to buy the food- that's unnecessary.

Someone has to produce the food in a factory- that's unnecessary

They have to drive to the factory and that causes them to stop and fill up with petrol- that's unnecessary

They might have to stop at a shop to buy lunch- that's unnecessary

After production the food has to be brought to a warehouse- That's unnecessary.

The person bringing it to the warehouse has to stop to fill up petrol- that's unnecessary

It goes on and on....

We can't live in a cocoon forever. Life is one big risk.

drunkmonkey · 02-05-2020 09:29PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

I don't know why any one would be against having the app. That would stop this. It is obviously what will hold are easing down back and put people at risk if they are vulnerable.
The app is one of the biggest reasons South Korea was able to avoid a lock down on a scale like we have and they are on the road to recovery.

The app is no use, it might help a bit. It's not any kind of a solution. The most vunlerable don't have smartphones, half the people with them don't even know how to download an app.
The app will be lost on those who need it most. HSE should be reporting cases by area not this there's 500 cases in louth crap, give us the details, where in louth etc.

foundation10 · 02-05-2020 09:30PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

im looking forward to having a big steak and a chips and a few pints at a restauruant from june 29th. im glad say i was kind of right saying we would be out having a few pints and food from end of june. i think we are doing very well and new cases should be low by end of june. i presume with hotels opening on july 20th , these will be as good as pubs to some people for going for a drink. by the sounds of leo last night there seems to be a high degree of confidence that the virus will be well under control by mid july. he also said if things get on better they might be brought forward a few weeks. have to say its great to be able to have a date inn your mind when you can look forward to this. like june 29th is basically the end of next month.

The hotel bar will not open when hotels open, july looks like another month on the dry, we will be lucky to have a pint by Xmas!

SweetCaliber · 02-05-2020 09:30PM

bloodless_coup wrote: »

I see the same workers in the supermarkets now as before this thing.

You'd think that seeing supermarkets are the only place people can go, they'd be hotbeds for infection. Yet none of the staff are getting it. So if physical distancing is this effective in places like supermarkets, why the need for the any other restrictions?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There not going to tell you, it's hush hush, business as normal.

I work in a rather large Tesco store, none of my colleagues have had it, neither have I (touch wood), have the same regular customers in twice a week or so also since this began so don't see much of us being asymptomatic.

What we don't do is:

* Wear Gloves (They just give a false sense of security and actually spread more bacteria)
* Wear Masks (although they are available if we want them)

What we do, do is:

* Wash our hands every half hour/hour and when necessary.
* Cover our mouths when we sneeze/cough/yawn.
* Try our best to social distance (impossible in the aisles).

I honestly thought I would see loads of colleagues out when this started, but amazed we haven't had a single sickness since this began.

SusieBlue · 02-05-2020 09:33PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Good series on netflix about the covid19. Only watched the first one. But they did mention that viruses that are asymptomatic and are not as vicious as the likes of the Spanish flu 1918 - spread more.
Because -
1) People do not realise they have it
2) It is not bad enough to make the person stay at home
3) The person thinks they just have a cold.

It was interesting that they mentioned the St Louis v Philadelphia differing attitudes to the Spanish Flu 1918.

https://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-how-st-louis-vs-philadelphia-treated-1918-flu-pandemic-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

St Louis went into lockdown flattened the curve. But St Louis lifted it's social distancing measures too soon and they had a second spike. Had to lockdown a second time.

There is going to be a second spike when we lift restrictions, regardless of whether we do it on Tuesday or whether we wait till August 10th. Waiting it out doesn’t mean it won’t happen cause it will.

Also Philadelphia didn’t just lift its social distancing measures and ease its restrictions, they hosted a parade to boost morale for the war efforts of which over 250k people attended.
That is why their numbers exploded.
I don’t see anyone here calling from complete removal of social distancing measures and total ease of restrictions.
I don’t see anyone advocating for a celebratory parade that half the country will attend on Tuesday either.
So they aren’t completely comparable situations.

No one is looking for normality and a total free for all, people are looking for a little bit of hope for the economy. Right now there is absolutely none.

UrbanFret · 02-05-2020 09:34PM

I wouldnt like to be running some of the cars posters on here are driving. I drive a 2008 accord 2.2 diesel. over 500 miles or 800 kilometers on a full tank.

brookers · 02-05-2020 09:37PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

im looking forward to having a big steak and a chips and a few pints at a restauruant from june 29th. im glad say i was kind of right saying we would be out having a few pints and food from end of june. i think we are doing very well and new cases should be low by end of june. i presume with hotels opening on july 20th , these will be as good as pubs to some people for going for a drink. by the sounds of leo last night there seems to be a high degree of confidence that the virus will be well under control by mid july. he also said if things get on better they might be brought forward a few weeks. have to say its great to be able to have a date inn your mind when you can look forward to this. like june 29th is basically the end of next month.

Are you a youngish person. Im not over 70 but would have very little confidence going into a pub or restaurant end of june. I honestly cant see them opening then. How are chefs and waiters and all the people associated with restuarants and pubs be able social distance. Leo is letting people believe all of this to give them some kind of hope, but everything will be pushed back, kids wont be going back in september, my kids school is so small and bursting at the seams, will be october november before they are all able to sit down together id say and even then who knows.....

Stormyteacup · 02-05-2020 09:38PM

SweetCaliber wrote: »

I honestly thought I would see loads of colleagues out when this started, but amazed we haven't had a single sickness since this began.

Not hugely surprised. Of 343 cases reported today, 247 are from clusters. So 96 not in clusters - and that’s just reported, no knowing when they were tested.

Still high numbers but efforts should be targeted on workplaces and RCHs that either can’t or don’t enforce social distancing.

Definitely not dire enough to cripple our entire economy when there are ways to suppress smarter.

mille100piedi · 02-05-2020 09:40PM

Simon Harrison wrote: »

This is borderline impossible, nobody will be forced to download an app.

they will not force you,but you will not be able to go in some place if you download it

foundation10 · 02-05-2020 09:40PM

No one is looking for normality and a total free for all, people are looking for a little bit of hope for the economy. Right now there is absolutely none.[/QUOTE]

Agree with you, all we need is a bit of hope. It doesn't do hope any good when we have the minister saying that we will not have incoming or outgoing flights for the rest of the year. While this may or may not be the case its basically dealing another blow to hospitality/tourism sector. Yet only two months ago we apparently couldn't even stop an incoming flight from Northern Italy. We also need a government and decisions need to be made by the elected representatives.

riclad · 02-05-2020 09:41PM

I think we will see some American states
Open up and then go back into lock down as the no
Of infections rise again
Hair salons and tattoo parlors are opening up
Which makes no sense too me
You can't have social distance when you
Are getting a haircut
I think at least 5 per cent of Americans
might have covid 19
Its dangerous as you can have it and have
Not know it so a barber or a shop worker
can spend it to customers or family members
If a business opens up in America its employees
will have to go back to work Eg they won't
Get welfare payments if they choose to
Stay at home because they are afraid
Of getting the virus

drunkmonkey · 02-05-2020 09:43PM

SweetCaliber wrote: »

I work in a rather large Tesco store, none of my colleagues have had it, neither have I (touch wood), have the same regular customers in twice a week or so also since this began so don't see much of us being asymptomatic.

What we don't do is:

* Wear Gloves (They just give a false sense of security and actually spread more bacteria)
* Wear Masks (although they are available if we want them)

What we do, do is:

* Wash our hands every half hour/hour and when necessary.
* Cover our mouths when we sneeze/cough/yawn.
* Try our best to social distance (impossible in the aisles).

I honestly thought I would see loads of colleagues out when this started, but amazed we haven't had a single sickness since this began.

Tesco is one of the places I feels safer shopping, I think gloves should be banned at this stage or if you want to use gloves you take a pair inside the shop, you don't jump out of your car with them on and go into the shop and start handling items checking the dates.
Dunnes is the pits, all checkout staff in facemasks and gloves, no new gloves for each customer, it's a filthy practice.
Centra, Spar, Tesco, Lidl, Aldi all seem to be taking the same approach.
The supermarket I knew of went down not because of the staff a cluster broke out in that town, do you think the HSE would have notified the residents, way too sensible a thing to do.

FintanMcluskey · 02-05-2020 09:44PM

brookers wrote: »

Are you a youngish person. Im not over 70 but would have very little confidence going into a pub or restaurant end of june. I honestly cant see them opening then. How are chefs and waiters and all the people associated with restuarants and pubs be able social distance. Leo is letting people believe all of this to give them some kind of hope, but everything will be pushed back, kids wont be going back in september, my kids school is so small and bursting at the seams, will be october november before they are all able to sit down together id say and even then who knows.....

We can either face this or dismantle society and become reclusive. Kids should be in school as of Tuesday, thus is of no harm to them

bettyoleary · 02-05-2020 09:49PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The app is no use, it might help a bit. It's not any kind of a solution. The most vunlerable don't have smartphones, half the people with them don't even know how to download an app.
The app will be lost on those who need it most. HSE should be reporting cases by area not this there's 500 cases in louth crap, give us the details, where in louth etc.

I agree fully but what happens as we start easing restrictions and more of this happens. You are prob right not all people have or can use smart phones but it could work if someone downloaded the app and showed them. I don't think there is anyone now at this stage cant afford a phone. If does work as I said it did in South Korea

drunkmonkey · 02-05-2020 09:50PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We can either face this or dismantle society and become reclusive. Kids should be in school as of Tuesday, thus is of no harm to them

Had my guys up a mountain at 9 this morning, way better for them than being stuck in a school box waiting to catch something we have no idea of the long term health conditions that might arise from getting it.
The got to see some tadpoles, showed them different flowers, chasing butterflies and hung around in a castle for a bit. I've no intention of letting them back until I'm sure it's 100% safe.

FintanMcluskey · 02-05-2020 09:54PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Had my guys up a mountain at 9 this morning, way better for them than being stuck in a school box waiting to catch something we have no idea of the long term health conditions that might arise from getting it.
The got to see some tadpoles, showed them different flowers, chasing butterflies and hung around in a castle for a bit. I've no intention of letting them back until I'm sure it's 100% safe.

You luckily live within 2km of a mountain. Lots of kids are stuck in urban housing estates.

ceadaoin. · 02-05-2020 09:55PM

riclad wrote: »

I think we will see some American states
Open up and then go back into lock down as the no
Of infections rise again
Hair salons and tattoo parlors are opening up
Which makes no sense too me
You can't have social distance when you
Are getting a haircut
I think at least 5 per cent of Americans
might have covid 19
Its dangerous as you can have it and have
Not know it so a barber or a shop worker
can spend it to customers or family members
If a business opens up in America its employees
will have to go back to work Eg they won't
Get welfare payments if they choose to
Stay at home because they are afraid
Of getting the virus

Well everyone is wearing masks in the salons I saw operating on the news, customers and service providers. Also, people wait in their cars rather than inside so there are only a few people in the store at any one time so they are socially distancing as much possible given the circumstances. Hopefully that will help.

drunkmonkey · 02-05-2020 09:56PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

I agree fully but what happens as we start easing restrictions and more of this happens. You are prob right not all people have or can use smart phones but it could work if someone downloaded the app and showed them. I don't think there is anyone now at this stage cant afford a phone. If does work as I said it did in South Korea

There is a large amount of people who are afraid of technology even though they have it in their hand, there's also the other 15% that don't give a feck about anything, the handle spitters.
I'm not probably right I'm 100% sure I am, auld ones love doros with big buttons and will cry if you try and force them into anything else. They don't want smartphones.

lawrencesummers · 02-05-2020 09:57PM

bloodless_coup wrote: »

Need to get petrol at some stage even if you are driving with your 5km area.

Bring food in a cooler / lunch box.

normanoffside wrote: »

Better just stay in bed and not eat until there is a vaccine.

Every time you eat you have to buy the food- that's unnecessary.

Someone has to produce the food in a factory- that's unnecessary

They have to drive to the factory and that causes them to stop and fill up with petrol- that's unnecessary

They might have to stop at a shop to buy lunch- that's unnecessary

After production the food has to be brought to a warehouse- That's unnecessary.

The person bringing it to the warehouse has to stop to fill up petrol- that's unnecessary

It goes on and on....

We can't live in a cocoon forever. Life is one big risk.

And here are some downright stupid justifications for breaking the rules.

drunkmonkey · 02-05-2020 10:01PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You luckily live within 2km of a mountain. Lots of kids are stuck in urban housing estates.

It's about 15k. We had the whole mountain to ourselves. Everyone in it's shadow living in fear. The same with the park this evening, nobody there on a lovely sunny evening. The Stockholm syndrome has kicked in for a lot of people.

bettyoleary · 02-05-2020 10:04PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There is a large amount of people who are afraid of technology even though they have it in their hand, there's also the other 15% that don't give a feck about anything, the handle spitters.
I'm not probably right I'm 100% sure I am, auld ones love doros with big buttons and will cry if you try and force them into anything else. They don't want smartphones.

I would have believed you 10 yrs ago. My mum was 75 at the time and thought computers were another species. But a couple of yrs after my dad died she got herself a lap top from Aldi and managed to navigate Plenty of Fish chat away and take herself off on dates!!! You would be very surprised what people can do when they have to believe me!!!!

Jinglejangle69 · 02-05-2020 10:09PM

Speaking to a Croatian lad today telling me if you breach any restrictions in Croatia its automatic fine of 1000 and if you don't pay its prison.

People here saying we are a police state.

Please stop.

SNNUS · 02-05-2020 10:10PM

Death has not gone away, people die everyday. Living in a bubble is not going to protect you. It has been mocked but herd immunity is being discussed as a better alternative with roughly the same deaths.

drunkmonkey · 02-05-2020 10:17PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

I would have believed you 10 yrs ago. My mum was 75 at the time and thought computers were another species. But a couple of yrs after my dad died she got herself a lap top from Aldi and managed to navigate Plenty of Fish chat away and take herself off on dates!!! You would be very surprised what people can do when they have to believe me!!!!

They don't need the app, it's not dependible unless it's north of 90% uptake, a lot I meet don't even know how to put it on silent, tried to convince someone to hold onto a new smartphone the other day, they were so frustrated with it, demanded a button phone.
It'd be great if it works but it won't not enough to protect everyone.
If I see the ma on POF, she's getting a doro, no more iPhone for her.

bettyoleary · 02-05-2020 10:23PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They don't need the app, it's not dependible unless it's north of 90% uptake, a lot I meet don't even know how to put it on silent, tried to convince someone to hold onto a new smartphone the other day, they were so frustrated with it, demanded a button phone.
It'd be great if it works but it won't not enough to protect everyone.
If I see the ma on POF, she's getting a doro, no more iPhone for her.

Or maybe a date!!:P

02-05-2020 10:31PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Social distance will prevent any of the waffle here coming to pass

So certain. And based on what?

The fact is that we don't fully know the extent of this virus, nor do we know that this virus won't mutate or adapt over the next few months. Posters like yourself are the kind of people who promote the misinformation that has plagued the internet and media. So certain of everything, when we know very little for certain. Plenty of theories, but "in the grand scheme of things" we're still very much in the early days of dealing with the virus... which is why it's important not to relax our precautions too early.

Social distancing is the bare minimum. It's been said hundreds of times why both social distancing and the self-isolating was brought in, and it's been ignored just as many times. Some people just want to ignore just how serious this situation is... and encourage others to do likewise. This is simply about delaying the widespread effects of covid until we do know the extent of the virus, and how to cope with it, while minimizing the deaths... why is that so difficult to accept?

But i get it. You won't change your mind...

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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