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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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Comments

  • #4862
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    growleaves wrote: »
    Lol

    When it was rising exponentially and people such as yourself were hearing the word "exponential" for the first time, you refused to believe that it would rise, level out and drop of itself - just like every UTRI does year after year, decade after decade including normal strains of influenza and extraordinary diseases like Hong Kong Flu, Asian Flu, encephalitica lethargica.

    So you bought into the lockdown emotionally and then.. the disease levelled out and dropped just like most other diseases.

    Emotionally the lockdown has been vindicated in your mind and there's nothing more to be said. Scientifically, we are still at the beginning of comprehension and have to start trying to establish what did and didn't happen and why.

    Like I said, it has to be studied by someone who understands the subject.

    You are beyond ludicrous. Address my points not some emotions you are projecting on to what I say. You have failed to address a single point I made with any evidence to back it up. Show me just one scientific report or paper that backs up your point. Just one. No, we are to believe you based on because.

    The lockdown addresses the slope of the exponential curve reducing the peak. I may talk exponents with you in more detail if you actually address something with facts, rather than spouting complete nonsense


  • #4863
    D3V!L
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    We're being fed some sh!t from the media and government about this coming weekend, compliance and check points.

    I'm a key worker and had to go into work for literally 10 minutes this evening. I live in North County Dublin, work in Dublin 1 and passed one single checkpoint which was small and a single Garda car out on patrol during my 50 kilometre round trip.

    To top it off the M1 was full of cars and trucks on the way into and out of town. Around Drumcondra had a very large footfall and on the way home through Swords , Santry it was the same.


  • #4864
    oceanman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭oceanman


    greenfield21 wrote: »
    I think we're going to see a full lifting of restrictions next week, its the right time the people have had enough. Its time for the big reopening to get the economy back on track.
    don't hold your breath...


  • #4865
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,858 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    smelly sock wrote: »
    I wouldn't. The hospitality sector will ramp up gouging in the aftermath of this.

    They won't be able to- the population will be broke with huge numbers of work. Many will simply go under tbh


  • #4866
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    So disappointed in what I’m seeing today.
    Felt a semblance of hope when Sam McConky finally spoke some sense to RTÉ this morning.
    However that was followed by Leo with vague answers and no idea what he’s going to do next.
    Culminating in none other than George Lee sitting on the RTÉ news couch setting out the checklist needed to exit lockdown - is he a health minister or doctor? Is this a leak? Why is he giving us this list? Has no one else the courage to speak to the public?
    What have the government and HSE been doing for the past few weeks if not planning for entry and exit strategies to this lockdown.
    I’m disgusted that the ball has been dropped on this issue. It is the biggest decision that has been taken regarding the population in 100 years or more. It is not something that should be extended by one single day never mind weeks unless it is absolutely necessary.
    This is regarding people’s quality of life, Ireland’s ability to pay the bills, societal collapse and dysfunction, a cancer epidemic, depression and anxiety, etc. To those who are in charge, wake up!


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  • #4867
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    This might help us all to stay in when we get annoyed at the restrictions

    https://www.rte.ie/culture/2020/0429/1135577-nursing-home-chaos-diary-of-a-pandemic-doctor/


  • #4868
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Expected outcome: 5x deaths
    Action: lockdown
    Result: 1x deaths
    Cause: definitely not the lockdown, no evidence, sure that’s what would have happened anyway, sure they changed the models, and the country that was 5x was different anyway

    That doesn't tell us if shutting down the entire country versus properly isolating a narrow section would make a difference in numbers.

    Sweden have taken the latter approach and now have a lesser death rate than us.

    Personally I favoured the NZ or Taiwanese effort at containment but that boat has long since sailed.

    The idea that we can contain this is long past. That leaves living with it until a vaccine and mitigating risks to those most likely to die or end up in ICU in a very specific and targetted way.

    By the way we are very likely to hit 5000 deaths from this on the current path.


  • #4869
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    D3V!L wrote: »
    We're being fed some sh!t from the media and government about this coming weekend, compliance and check points.

    I'm a key worker and had to go into work for literally 10 minutes this evening. I live in North County Dublin, work in Dublin 1 and passed one single checkpoint which was small and a single Garda car out on patrol during my 50 kilometre round trip.

    To top it off the M1 was full of cars and trucks on the way into and out of town. Around Drumcondra had a very large footfall and on the way home through Swords , Santry it was the same.

    I think that's a pretty big issue they have, they have nowhere near the numbers to police it properly let alone if things turn sour and people decide that they don't care anymore.


  • #4870
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,009 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Finland opening all schools on May 15th.


  • #4871
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Just coming out saying the numbers aren't 'good enough' is actually not good enough.

    Not doubting that they aren't, but if you say something like that you also need to say what number is good enough. There need to be hard measurements for what 'good enough' is. Goal posts have been shifted a couple of times already.

    I understand its a fluid and unprecedented situation, but so are the restrictions in their severity and length. They are in fact so severe for any western democracy that the government must expect full scrutiny at all times with regards to their appropriacy, proportionality and ultimately legitimacy.

    It is our right and our duty as citizens to hold our government to this standard and they should not expect anything else from us. What I'm seeing right now isn't good enough in that regard. Communication is lazy at best borderline outrageous at worst.

    We also need to see some plan B. What if we can't get the numbers down any time soon to 'good enough'? There has to be a plan for that case, too. There should be one already.

    The government needs to get the finger out. Time to get from just reacting to stuff to making stuff happen. Swiftly.


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  • #4872
    uli84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭uli84


    Discodog wrote: »
    Finland opening all schools on May 15th.

    Is there any country actually NOT opening apart from the UK?


  • #4873
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,139 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    growleaves wrote: »
    What you have is a cause-and-effect assumption - then you've jumped to a conclusion.

    This cause-and-effect assumption has to be tested by an inquiry, i.e. Were other aggravated factors in place in Lombardy which caused it be particularly bad? To what extent were these factors operative compared to other regions? To what extent had Ireland increased its ICU capacity? etc.

    I don't think many people realise that the Italian healthcare system imploded in 2017 when they had a particularly bad flu epidemic. It seems having one of the oldest populations in Europe has some side effects.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #4874
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    uli84 wrote: »
    Is there any country actually NOT opening apart from the UK?

    No we are the strictest in Europe now. But its not actually a leadership issue, its purely because of proven complacency on our behalf. Seismic activity has been through the roof and Tony is fed up of our behavior. He said he was going to lift all the restrictions but not any more and we are to stay in our rooms


  • #4875
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    That doesn't tell us if shutting down the entire country versus properly isolating a narrow section would make a difference in numbers.

    Sweden have taken the latter approach and now have a lesser death rate than us.

    Personally I favoured the NZ or Taiwanese effort at containment but that boat has long since sailed.

    The idea that we can contain this is long past. That leaves living with it until a vaccine and mitigating risks to those most likely to die or end up in ICU in a very specific and targetted way.

    By the way we are very likely to hit 5000 deaths from this on the current path.

    We would have to isolate that sector for 12 months plus and that is akin to prison and treating a large portion of society as second class citizens.


  • #4876
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,015 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    No we are the strictest in Europe now. But its not actually a leadership issue, its purely because of proven complacency on our behalf. Seismic activity has been through the roof and Tony is fed up of our behavior. He said he was going to lift all the restrictions but not any more and we are to stay in our rooms
    What country are you in?


  • #4877
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,009 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    No we are the strictest in Europe now. But its not actually a leadership issue, its purely because of proven complacency on our behalf. Seismic activity has been through the roof and Tony is fed up of our behavior. He said he was going to lift all the restrictions but not any more and we are to stay in our rooms

    I have no evidence, apart from anecdotal, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of essential workers are choosing to drive rather than use public transport.


  • #4878
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    This might help us all to stay in when we get annoyed at the restrictions

    https://www.rte.ie/culture/2020/0429/1135577-nursing-home-chaos-diary-of-a-pandemic-doctor/

    But wait...
    There's essential dog grooming to be done....


  • #4879
    uli84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭uli84


    Hope this is a joke, especially schools opened in Sept

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/revealed-phased-plan-to-exit-coronavirus-lockdown-in-ireland-may-see-cafes-reopen-by-midsummer-1.4240404?mode=amp


  • #4880
    Podge201
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭Podge201


    What is the latest from Hooligan on the restrictions?


  • #4881
    Long_Wave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 136 ✭✭Long_Wave


    The men of 1916 would be absolutely disgusted at the mob who have taken over this country, brainwashed fools sitting on their hole at home on €350 dole perweek.


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  • #4882
    GazzaL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭GazzaL


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    So disappointed in what I’m seeing today.
    Felt a semblance of hope when Sam McConky finally spoke some sense to RTÉ this morning.
    However that was followed by Leo with vague answers and no idea what he’s going to do next.
    Culminating in none other than George Lee sitting on the RTÉ news couch setting out the checklist needed to exit lockdown - is he a health minister or doctor? Is this a leak? Why is he giving us this list? Has no one else the courage to speak to the public?
    What have the government and HSE been doing for the past few weeks if not planning for entry and exit strategies to this lockdown.
    I’m disgusted that the ball has been dropped on this issue. It is the biggest decision that has been taken regarding the population in 100 years or more. It is not something that should be extended by one single day never mind weeks unless it is absolutely necessary.
    This is regarding people’s quality of life, Ireland’s ability to pay the bills, societal collapse and dysfunction, a cancer epidemic, depression and anxiety, etc. To those who are in charge, wake up!

    Newstalk, The Irish Times, Professor McConkey, Ivan Yates, and a few others are thankfully asking the difficult questions and calling out the bull**** from NPHET.


  • #4883
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You have failed to address a single point I made with any evidence to back it up.

    Huh. Your point was that your cause-and-effect assumptions line up with happened and with some of the models. That's a kind of untested evidence. I can't disprove it. I Lol'd because you jumped straight to a definite conclusion ('It works') Bit premature, no?

    I don't think there's been any reports or papers on the lockdown yet. I haven't seen any.

    “So far, no transmission of the virus in supermarkets, restaurants or hairdressers has been proved.” - German virologist
    No, we are to believe you based on because.

    Believe me how? I'm saying that the lockdown is unproven and no should believe in it without cast-iron proof. Since no one wants to be locked up or dis-employed (presumably) what is controversial about saying this?

    Yet some people gasp in shock.


  • #4884
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    uli84 wrote: »
    Hope this is a joke, especially schools opened in Sept

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/revealed-phased-plan-to-exit-coronavirus-lockdown-in-ireland-may-see-cafes-reopen-by-midsummer-1.4240404?mode=amp

    Well there not gonna be open before Sept


  • #4885
    Down9194
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭Down9194


    uli84 wrote: »
    Why is todays announcement at 8pm? Do they need more time to think what number to come up with?

    Yes they need more time to spin more crap as to why we can't have relaxation of lockdown


  • #4886
    GazzaL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭GazzaL


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Just coming out saying the numbers aren't 'good enough' is actually not good enough.

    Not doubting that they aren't, but if you say something like that you also need to say what number is good enough. There need to be hard measurements for what 'good enough' is. Goal posts have been shifted a couple of times already.

    I understand its a fluid and unprecedented situation, but so are the restrictions in their severity and length. They are in fact so severe for any western democracy that the government must expect full scrutiny at all times with regards to their appropriacy, proportionality and ultimately legitimacy.

    It is our right and our duty as citizens to hold our government to this standard and they should not expect anything else from us. What I'm seeing right now isn't good enough in that regard. Communication is lazy at best borderline outrageous at worst.

    We also need to see some plan B. What if we can't get the numbers down any time soon to 'good enough'? There has to be a plan for that case, too. There should be one already.

    The government needs to get the finger out. Time to get from just reacting to stuff to making stuff happen. Swiftly.

    George Lee said on the 6o'clock news, in a roundabout way, that the HSE's failure to achieve the testing capacity is the reason why restrictions aren't being eased. They thankfully have stopped blaming the public, which was a disgusting and disingenuous thing to do.


  • #4887
    D3V!L
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    Well there not gonna be open before Sept

    That reads awfully like the "leaked" document that was doing the rounds on WhatsApp


  • #4888
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    appledrop wrote: »
    Yep nearly 50% of all deaths from Covid are in Nursing Homes. Its a disgrace. Continuing lockdown for another 2 weeks will do nothing to solve this at all. They need personnel in Nursing home now + move residents to isolation units elsewhere if necessary. What about all the private hospitial beds lying empty? They could be used for over crowded nursing homes.

    And yes approx. 50% of deaths are not. There we are.

    And btw Ireland is not unique in having serious issues with high Covid infection rates in care homes. The UK, Sweden, Spain and France have all seen a large number of cases in such facilities.

    Why is that? The problem is that people living there cannot observe social distancing. Added to that the issue of staff members being presymptomstic or asymptomatic. It only takes one infected person for cases in care homes to explode.

    Hospitals themselves are problematic. Most do not have the necessary facilities to care for elderly residents who need more than just a bed.

    That's not saying there isn't solutions which can be implemented.


  • #4889
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Cyprus who had a heavy lockdown in terms of restricted movement announce this evening the start of the relaxation of measures
    https://daily-cyprus.com/2020/04/29/president-address-to-the-nation-on-lifting-restrictive-measures/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


  • #4890
    GazzaL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭GazzaL


    NPHET consists of 40 people on a conference call. No surprise there's no meeting minutes. With that many people involved in a meeting, you can be fully sure there will be zero accountability.


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  • #4891
    johnboy1298
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭johnboy1298


    Another thing that I find annoying about this whole situation is that we have had our ability to make our own decisions taken away from us. Its an interesting one but ultimately as someone who is essential and goes to work daily in a workplace of 170 people about 40 mins away, if I get the virus, as a result of work or travelling to work, that's decided as being acceptable, but if I choose to visit my friends who for the most part aren't allowed to work and are far less likely to have the virus and live 5k away from my house its a crime. Seems a bit stupid really.


This discussion has been closed.
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