Is farming actually profitable?

Carmen Angry Advertisement wrote: »

Little background.. moved home from abroad a few years back, teaching close enough to home. Have planning permission on home farm and father is coming close to retirement. Have signed up to do Green Cert. Farm about 60 acres and only sheep on it.

Anyways, been thinking about getting into the "family business". I'd have grown up doing jobs and know a bit about sheep. However, I havent a notion about the finances or running a farm. Its not something I'd do for the love of it or to break even.

I know its a "how long is a piece of string?" question, but could a farm that size be profitable?? All I ever hear is how theres no money in farming.

Thanks for reading and any feedback welcome.

Most of the sheep farmers I know would have more than 60 acres and also work part time or full time at some other job to make ends meet.

Carmen Angry Advertisement wrote: »

Little background.. moved home from abroad a few years back, teaching close enough to home. Have planning permission on home farm and father is coming close to retirement. Have signed up to do Green Cert. Farm about 60 acres and only sheep on it.

Anyways, been thinking about getting into the "family business". I'd have grown up doing jobs and know a bit about sheep. However, I havent a notion about the finances or running a farm. Its not something I'd do for the love of it or to break even.

I know its a "how long is a piece of string?" question, but could a farm that size be profitable?? All I ever hear is how theres no money in farming.

Thanks for reading and any feedback welcome.

Farming is not really very profitable. Not if properly worked out in a money earned vs hours worked kinda way...

You have a primary job teaching, which is a well paid job. If you have no love for it, why would you want to work a second, minimum wage (if that) job?

Birdnuts wrote: »

Depends what you mean?? the vast majority of farmers would be at a loss without CAP payments and even with them many struggle to turn any profit. Its certainly a sad state of affairs with the only winners being big agri-business , corporations etc. who get their hands on a vast amount of farmers produce for below the cost of production. Things were actually alot more sustainable 50 years ago(pre CAP and intensification) with alot less inputs and a much greater diversity of produce coming from most farms eg. back then nearly eveyone milked a few cows, had a few pigs etc so when one market was soft other markets filled the void

Maybe return to the old “a cow, a sow, and an acre under plough”?
It, as you say, would even out the volatility of modern farming. Farm diversification doesn’t necessarily mean opening a farm B&B.

Ask your father to do a profit and loss statement. And you will know about sheep on 60 acres anywayðŸ˜.

+1 to what your parents want, especially your dad, is he the sort of person who wants to retire fully and hand everything over to you while he jets off to Spain every winter etc lol, or much more like the typical older farmer still well happy to tip away at it while he is still able? If its the 2nd and its moreso the current workload and paperwork that's getting to him, can you look at simplifying the system, this would most like mean scale back, but once the farm itself breaks even at the minimum effort, but yous get to hang on to any of the payments going that's as good as your gonna get.

The other alternative is long term lease, could be either all of the farm or say hang onto some to let your dad still farm away if he wants.


What's the current setup on the farm, and have you spotted any obvious low hanging fruit to simplify it?

Only dairy and potatoes is actually profitable

Barrier to entry for potatoes is very large

A full on dairy conversion was circa €250k but in a reasonable year would return 80k as your wage after costs. Milk prices fluctuate and it's a full time enterprise with considerable knowledge needed.

Carmen Angry Advertisement wrote: »

Little background.. moved home from abroad a few years back, teaching close enough to home. Have planning permission on home farm and father is coming close to retirement. Have signed up to do Green Cert. Farm about 60 acres and only sheep on it.

Anyways, been thinking about getting into the "family business". I'd have grown up doing jobs and know a bit about sheep. However, I havent a notion about the finances or running a farm. Its not something I'd do for the love of it or to break even.

I know its a "how long is a piece of string?" question, but could a farm that size be profitable?? All I ever hear is how theres no money in farming.

Thanks for reading and any feedback welcome.

99nsr125 wrote: »

Only dairy and potatoes is actually profitable

Barrier to entry for potatoes is very large

A full on dairy conversion was circa €250k but in a reasonable year would return 80k as your wage after costs. Milk prices fluctuate and it's a full time enterprise with considerable knowledge needed.

Define profit? If you get 5k in glas money 10k in sfp 2k anc per year and you’ve a few cattle or sheep roaming round the place that are covering themselves is that not profit?
Run the car/jeep, heat the house, have light in the house pay your phone bill all through the farm so you get a bit of tax relief on it. Of Course 60 acres can be profitable alongside a job. You won’t make 60k a year on it but you can make a profit on it if you run it like a 60 acre farm.
Many 60 acre farms carry on like they’ve a couple of hundred acres. New land cruiser, ifor Williams, all their own machinery, baler, wrapper slurry tankers because “they don’t want to be waiting for the contractor” to cut 15 acres!!!!
As for the op. If you don’t have a love for it rent it out tax free, then it will definitely be profitable.

99nsr125 wrote: »

Only dairy and potatoes is actually profitable

Barrier to entry for potatoes is very large

A full on dairy conversion was circa €250k but in a reasonable year would return 80k as your wage after costs. Milk prices fluctuate and it's a full time enterprise with considerable knowledge needed.

I think he said 60 acres in Mayo not 60HA in West Cork.

OP if the farm is set up for sheep and is capable of being stocked at 2-3 ewe to the acre if run fairly efficiently will leave a margin of 5-10K, every 20 more that can be carried will add another700-1k in net margin.

SFP will be 3.6k minimum, ANC is 2.5-3k, an enviormental scheme will add 3-4k and depending on your number of ewes different premium will add another 1.5-2k

A farm that size is capable of turning 20k in a net margin minimum if run with profitability mind

Dickie10 wrote: »

100% i kept away from most of this when i started, no jeep, no trailer, i had a 8/4 flat bed with rails, ancient fertiliser spreader which i still have, no slurry tanker or agitator. all i had were a 75 hp tractor and small trialer for the bog. every few year i gathered a few pound for something i badly needed. the car gave up so i got an old 97 landcrusier 3 years ago still flying. bought a new ifor williams deck trailer all right 4 years ago, as i was begining to move around 300 lambs to factory a year so took the plunge. better off put your money into stock numbers , there a good way of keeping money together, spend any extra getting fencing right. i still get contractor to do most jobs like slurry and baling and silage and im farming 150 acres . its a big mistake some lads make buying new shiny things.

Machinery adds cost. You are getting away with a 75HP tractor. If you had a slurry tank and mower you would be looking at a 100HP tractor burning more diesel. Stock for profit and fencing for labour saving after that its a case of limit your machinery

I funny enough have two tractors a Case Cx80 2WD was going to trade it in when looking for the 4WD( bought a MCCormick CX90) but I was getting only 7-8K for it was worth that sitting in the yard. I tried to sell private and best offer was 9K. After that, chain harrow, sprayer, fertlizer spreader, 8' disc mower, 8X5 box, Toyota RAV, a single and double rear handlers, hydraulic bale handler for the loader, as well a front and rear bale spike.

Slurry this year cost 1300 euro, hedges 500 euro, contractor charges 10.bale to mow and bale. Will really consider offloading some few bits and pieces but some are backup in case the 2Wd has to take the workload if the MCCormick acted up

degetme wrote: »

Is your contractor charging you 10e a bale so to mow and bale? What about wrapping and plastic? Are you using net or plastic on the 10e a bale? Any vat being charged

Mow bale and wrap for 10 euro last year might be a drop this year with diesel down so much. He uses net. He is Vat registered, I pay by cheque. I buy the plastic, if I can get it I use silo wrap. If first cut is exceptionally dry I go 6 layers as opposed to 4. I will probably use an additive as well

From my experience and as previous posters have said dairy is the most profitable enterprise followed by vegetables and potatoes and then tillage. Sheep is the most profitable drystock enterprise. There is money out of it but not enough to both reinvest and live off of. The BPS and other schemes like GLAS are a help.

The initial investment for sheep is low. All you need is a good fence, decent handling facilities, a shed and a good dog. If the ground is free draining, sow a winter crop like kale or swedes. It's expensive day one but it pays for itself during the winter. Sheep usually require more handling than cattle and it's harder to put money together with sheep than cattle. I sold all the sheep recently and I am going down the dairy route for 2021

Here is one about farm profitability. Today I had to get two rollers for the garage door. They were 60 euro net.of vat.

Not here is the question about profit monitor for my beef do I allow them as cost at the end of the year. Now the garage is 80-90% domestic use. If I put them in the accounts they will deduct about a euro per bullock from the bottom line. I be crying in my soup if I do not make a profit. If I do not allow me them into my accounts and make a profit the tax man will take about 50% of the euro