Is farming actually profitable?

Bass Reeves

landofthetree wrote: »

Agricultural land sells for very high prices.

Why would people spent so much on buying farms if it wasn't profitable?

In 2019 37k acres were sold. Area of all of Ireland is 32k sq miles. Allowing for the North, lakes, rivers cities towns and villages only 3-4 acres per sq mile changes hand every year or 0.5-1% if land bought and sold every year.

While the perception is that land is dear by seeing prices of 10k plus the average price of agriculture land last year was about 5.5k. This is a car is a variation from forestry land at 2-4k/acre to very good quality land or semi development land for 15k+/acre

HerveyFults

First of all, it depends on the area that you are located in and how much you are ready to invest in it. I think that all the farms are profitable, but they aren't profitable the entire year. If you are 100% into farming, be prepared to get a lot of debts and loans. My grandparents used to have a great farm. However, my old man was never 100% into farming. He even had another source of income. I have recently got the farm back from the bank, as my dad lost it due to his loans. Now I want to get a couple of new tractors from machinerydealer.co.uk and make that place great again.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119239657#Comment_119239657

I can't figure out whether you are an ad or a troll 🤔

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058073786/is-farming-actually-profitable

I would say the biggest cost in farming is time. Could be around 12 hours at the weekend and maybe an hour a day during the week.

You are lucky that you have yourself and your father at it because farming alone is tough. It should be an enterprise ye both like.

Like between subs and output there should be money out of it.

You would want to research different farm enterprise’s. Would a handy amount of sheep in an organic system work?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119239861#Comment_119239861

Well, how many young fellas do you know who that have the cash to pay down the farm loans and then turn around buy a “couple” of new tractors from a third country handling the import process and extra duties? Make a list, you should have plenty of space on the back of a match book. And given the ‘make the place great bit’ maybe concentrate on young lads called Donald ;-)

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119239657#Comment_119239657

A new tractor will sort it. Place will be flying it after thst.

I used the machinery dealer place before and don’t recommend it. Terrible service.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119239657#Comment_119239657

I see a few tarmacadam laying machines for sale on machinery dealer. If you bought one of them you’d be able to lay all your own tarmacadam for the farm road ways. That’d really make the place great again for you.

K.G.

16560610090702792534609846155000.jpg

Might be no harm to bear this in mind.keep away from suckered anyway

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242358#Comment_119242358

That's why the place needs to look great. A few new tractors positioned around the entrance and you'll be beating them off you.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242358#Comment_119242358

Interesting stat that.

Essentially only 40% of suckler farmers are happy

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119239657#Comment_119239657

make that place America great again

Fixed that for you

HerveyFults

First of all, it depends on the area that you are located in and how much you are ready to invest in it

smallbeef

These must be Russian Spambots - they aren't working properly at all.

If the farm is managed holistically it will be profitable.

Otherwise, very hard slog.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243294#Comment_119243294

Only when the kremlin denies it (and they burst into flames) can you be sure.

lalababa

Just an add on....average dairy income is 100k....not too bad eh?

screamer

It depends on many things. If you run it like a business then yes. If you flute around and run a half arsed effort, then no. I’ve seen fellas who rent land and run their operation well make more money than lads who were given a farm but who run it poorly. also see lads who make lots of money but love the big new tractors and toys, they never have any cash just a big brag machine to sit on. Flutes equally.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119246093#Comment_119246093

You summed it up there. I'd like to add find an enterprise and excel at it.

Picking Dasies

Hi,

If you were to keep 6-8 suckler cows to keep the place going with as little input and hardship as possible what would be the preferred breed of cow to give the maximum margins?

Calves to be sold in October.

Cows outwintered as long as possible - inside for Jan and Feb and out with calf in March.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320770#Comment_119320770

I am not sure if it is worth the effort. Are you going to use AI or a bull. AI will mean checking cows for heat constantly arranging AI and getting cow on for breeding. Any decent bull will cost 2k + 4-500/ year maintenance.

Your output will be an average of 1 calf per years less the number of cows over five years.

Gman1987

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320770#Comment_119320770

Forget the cows, buy in a few dry stock instead and keep things as simple as possible for yourself.

Picking Dasies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320846#Comment_119320846

AI. Camera set up on outfarm that will help with identifying in heat cows / calving etc, worked for me this year with all cows done.

I suppose im wondering what cow / calf combination will get me the best balance.

Have a few unhelpful cows which are going this back end and i want to gradually replace with easier stock.

I was thinking Hereford / Sim cows?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320846#Comment_119320846

4 or 500 is a lot of cost for a bull.

Wouldnt the bull live away on grass 9 months of the year. And do with a bit of hay or silage for the rest of the time?

Picking Dasies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320904#Comment_119320904

Dry stock is an option but i find the suckler takes care of themselves for most part of the year, if you look after them well and i love to see the calves!

Obviously the AI / Calving is the most time consuming.

monseiur

Can I ask a quick question here in relation to farm grants. We visited the OH's uncle in north Mayo at the weekend. He runs roughly 150 ewes on his farm which is low level bog land. Just last week the department wrote to him advising him that he was understocked and that he must up his numbers to have a certain minimium no. of sheep per hectare (not sure of the no. mentioned) but he would have to nearly double the no. of ewes. He does not get the ANC grant but gets what he calls area aid which I guess is the Basic Payment. He was of the opinion that there was no minimium no. of stock required to qualify for the Basic Payment but the rules may have changed. The letter also mentioned his being considered an 'inactive farmer' ! Have the rules & regulations changed recently ? This lad is in his seventies and depends to an extent on the grant to pay for feed, fencing contractors, sheep shearers etc. but he'd be lost without it as it's the only life he knows.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320953#Comment_119320953

He'd eat 4 bales silage minimum and probably 5. Dose him, maybe a hoof pared, a few € for the cost of replacement in time, straw (no bull should be on slats imo), a drop of diesel to feed and clean him out, his share of electricity, insurance, fencing, shed repairs, contractor costs for his share of the dung, maybe an injection for something. Not to mention the cost of the grass that you mention for 9 months.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321366#Comment_119321366

Well in my case he’s staying outside on ground that isn’t fertilised.

So:

3 bales

A pour on

I agree with you on the slats

Danzy

Depends on your land, soil types etc. Location. How early you can get them out.

I've been on a few farms in the south of county Cork during the week. I thought I knew what good land was, I had no Idea.

You also need scale.

Remember though, all of Europe places a premium on cheapness of food supply.

I know some great handlers who are sick of it, long Winter and costs killing it for them.

So it depends..

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119323716#Comment_119323716

I often heard it said that as you travel the road from Youghal to Bandon via Cork, all the land between there and the coast is some of the best in the country.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320953#Comment_119320953

Even if you put him on unfertilised ground that has a value because you could have other animals on it and spread less fertlizer elsewhere.

I used to cost grazing at 50ish c/ day. A bull would cost that anyway. 9 months is 135 euro. 3 bales this year is 105 euro. Herd test dosing,etc another 20-30 euro. Allow fixed costs of 50 euro. That slight over 300 euro.

The biggest issue with a bull is he spends most of the year by himself there fore he takes up more area and more time that most other stock

farawaygrass

you’ll make hardship for yourself if you plan on only housing cows for jan and feb (location is a big factor obviously).

I assume you are in college/working. It’s no fun pulling on waterproof clothing in November/December to go out in the dark and wet.

you said ai, and you have experience from it this year. If it’s working great, but it can be time consuming and frustrating.

the thing about a bull is I find they can be in the way when not with cows.

a great cross is an Angus on bbx cows, if you can get the bbx that will throw shape into the calf. Them calves will sell like hot buns for you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119323821#Comment_119323821

If the bull does the job and say gets 25 or 30 in calf then he is good value at that price.

The biggest cost with a bull is him not getting them in calf, poor calves off him or even worse him throwing absolutely massive calves that can’t be born unassisted.

When you buy a young bull you might only be able to run him on 15 or 20 but he won’t eat as much I suppose.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321114#Comment_119321114

The ANC replaced the Area Aid snd he must have a min stock level maintained for min 7 consecutive months. Does an advisor do his paperwork? if so you, your OH and the uncle need to visit the advisor and see what to do

Picking Dasies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119323826#Comment_119323826

Thanks. I'm working but have looked after the father farm for couple of years only. We don't house till 1st week Dec usually, a number of neighbours strip grazed a few cows well in to Jan last but it was a mild winter. We have the land to keep them out that bit longer. I had cows going out 1st week March this year. Always hardship involved but i was just wondering what others would consider a good breeding mix. Cheers.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119324030#Comment_119324030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321114#Comment_119321114

ANC replaced the disadvantaged area payment. Area aid, along with a few others, all got replaced by the BPS.

BPS requires a minimum stocking density of 0.15 livestock units per hectare for 7 consecutive months of the year. A ewe would be classed as 0.15 of a livestock unit so after that it depends how many hectares he is farming to work out his stocking density.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325605#Comment_119325605

BOS requires no stocking level. ANC dose. BOS requires you to keep the land in good agriculture condition that is all. That will change in the next round of CAP where you can have 20 % of land base in scrub or non agriculture condition

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325634#Comment_119325634

Correct, apologies, ANC was what i had meant to have there.

ANC rules have also changed this year. Previously, 0.15 livestock units per hectare with entitlements was what would get you across the line.

Now, it's 0.15 units for every hectare you have, whether it has entitlements on it or not. So what stock qualified a farmer last year, may not qualify the same farmer this year.

If he's short numbers due to this, lambs count as 0.15 soon as they're born. But, there are important things to go with that, the lambs would need to be on farm for 7 months I believe and he'd need to have the tags bought before the lambs were born. They'd need to be in the register which would have to be sent into the department. Following that, obviously the same lambs need to be retained in the flock or sold, and the dept have to be satisfied with all that before the farmer gets paid.

He needs to talk to a good advisor, I would suggest today. I'm not an advisor so don't rely on this post.