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Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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  • #5162
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    xtal191 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/DamoBuckley1/status/1254370171361296385

    Cringe


  • #5163
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Your issue is with alcohol and pubs though. Nothing to do with coronavirus, you just appear hopeful that coronavirus will close pubs indefinitely to suit your anti alcohol bias :)

    Yes, exactly... I felt I made that point very clear in my first post.

    What are you confused about?

    It would be one of the more positive things to come out of this crisis, if we had significantly less booze houses by the end of it.

    It's not an anti-alcohol bias btw... alcohol has been proven to have overwhelmingly negative effects on society. So the bias would be the people who would like to keep it going strong - so they can make a tonne of money off the suffering of their fellow citizens!


  • #5164
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    It's not anywhere near the same.

    Some of the products and services provided by these companies have enhanced our lives in many ways. (not all of them)

    Alcohol and pubs add very little of value, and contribute a lot negatively.

    At the end of the day, it's only my opinion... I would be quite happy to see pubs close down and not open back up again. Perhaps you'll be hoping for Apple to shut down... each to their own!

    If pubs were essential businesses, they would probably still be open right now... or be one of the first to open back up after relaxation of restrictions. But they won't be... they'll remain closed for quite a while yet. And life will go on without them.

    They’re pretty essential for our tourism industry. As are hotels that are also closed now and in trouble. I understand what you mean and it is a valid point to a certain extent but if all pubs were to close that’s probably around 100,000 jobs lost. 100,000 jobs lost means children going without food, homes repossessed, possible homelessness. It isn’t black and white we can’t let a whole industry crumble.


  • #5165
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    political analyst wrote: »
    The WHO says there's no evidence that those who have recovered from Covid-19 have immunity to infection second time around. So how can it be determined whether or not they have immunity? If they don't, then does that mean that the virus that causes Covid-19 will never disappear?



    The short answer is 'we don't know' . SARS-CoV-2 simply hasnt been around long enough yet to be able to give the definitive answers to these questions that people understandably want.


  • #5166
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    keynes wrote: »
    A more fundamental question why the hell are they banging out tweets about "no clear evidence" on immunity, human to human transmission etc. This is a complete cop-out. By scientific standards, of course there's no "clear evidence" on anything at this point. So like the organization itself, these musings (and that's all they are) are of no practical value and further underline who useless they are. In the midst of a pandemic, governments want direction, not this nonsense

    That’s fair. I think they are wrongly assuming that people will realise that these statements aren’t unequivocal but a lot of people won’t realise that.


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  • #5167
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    JoChervil wrote: »
    I've watched Sky News today and it was an interview with a British expert. He said: Well, if you recovered from it, you must have an immunity, otherwise, you wouldn't recover. The question is how long this immunity will last.

    And I fully agree with it. Evidence is recovered people.

    HIV is a virus that is suppressed, what if this is something similar?


  • #5168
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    bekker wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    Original WHO statement
    'WHO continues to review the evidence on antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 infection.{2-17} Most of these studies show that people who have recovered from infection have antibodies to the virus. However, some of these people have very low levels of neutralizing antibodies in their blood,{4} suggesting that cellular immunity may also be critical for recovery. As of 24 April 2020, no study has evaluated whether the presence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 confers immunity to subsequent infection by this virus in humans.' ({reference}, emphasis added).

    Twitter post
    We expect that most people who are infected with #COVID19 will develop an antibody response that will provide some level of protection.
    (emphasis added)

    Please indicate how you derive ' said they expect most people to have immunity' from either of those statements.

    FFS.

    Do you understand how immunity and vaccines work? I will give you a chance to explain it first before I respond.

    I will give you a clue. Almost all vaccines and immunity are time limited and rarely 100% effective in 100% of cases.

    The fact that most people have immunity between vaccines is usually enough to confer herd immunity.

    And herd immunity either through vaccine or not is our way out of this.


  • #5169
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,984 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    They also didn't allow for dopes who rehash what they say without questioning it.

    You're not in any position to call anyone a "dope", when you've shown clearly that you are unable to read and comprehend simple tweets.


  • #5170
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    HIV is a virus that is suppressed, what if this is something similar?


    HIV can lie dormant in people for years, but then its a different type of virus (a retrovirus)


  • #5171
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    What's after going so wrong in Cavan? I wouldn't disbelieve that post about the meat factory. There must have been a massive outbreak somewhere there.

    There was the whole hospital incident where doctors from other areas needed to come in to keep the hospital operating as large number of health care workers were self isolating or infected. Again bull**** was called on that story at the time but seems strange that such a low population density county is now the pro rata case total in the country.


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  • #5172
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    They’re pretty essential for our tourism industry. As are hotels that are also closed now and in trouble. I understand what you mean and it is a valid point to a certain extent but if all pubs were to close that’s probably around 100,000 jobs lost. 100,000 jobs lost means children going without food, homes repossessed, possible homelessness. It isn’t black and white we can’t let a whole industry crumble.

    I never said the whole industry... I said it would be great to see about 50% of pubs go under.

    Children go without food and homes get repossessed because of alcohol addiction too, just to remind you.

    And like I said, all the people spending their time and considerable amounts of money in pubs every week... they will go elsewhere. And they will spend that money elsewhere. So the pub sector shrinking, will cause other sectors to grow as a result... and job opportunities will grow in these sectors too.

    Not to mention all the other positive net effects of having less people spending their free time in boozers... there are plenty of more positive things you do with your time than sit in a pub drinking!


  • #5173
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    ek motor wrote: »
    HIV can lie dormant in people for years, but then its a different type of virus (a retrovirus)

    Agree it's different but it is also a retrovirus.
    The genome size of coronaviruses ranges from approximately 26 to 32 kilobases, one of the largest among RNA viruses.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus


  • #5174
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,776 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    There was the whole hospital incident where doctors from other areas needed to come in to keep the hospital operating as large number of health care workers were self isolating or infected. Again bull**** was called on that story at the time but seems strange that such a low population density county is now the pro rata case total in the country.
    Agreed something definitely went wrong. They nearly have the same number of cases as us in Cork.


  • #5175
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    Agree it's different but it is also a retrovirus.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus


    Where in that article does it say SARS-CoV-2 is a retrovirus ?


  • #5176
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    The context to WHO's tweets on immunity is important. They warned against the idea of immunity passports or certs for workers who wanted to return to work or travel for example.

    However these will be required to get us back to some sort of "normal".

    By the way when they do come up with a vaccine we will all have to show proof we got the vaccine. This is pretty much a given.


  • #5177
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    A good article with German expert and advisor. Well worth the read.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/virologist-christian-drosten-germany-coronavirus-expert-interview

    That's a good find. This bit from the piece:

    In Germany, people see that the hospitals are not overwhelmed, and they don’t understand why their shops have to shut. They only look at what’s happening here, not at the situation in, say, New York or Spain. This is the prevention paradox, and for many Germans I’m the evil guy who is crippling the economy. I get death threats, which I pass on to the police.

    This attitude is all over, unfortunately. You see it here on boards, you see it on the new in America, I came across it on an English forum, you see it even in real life, people flaunting the restrictions and the guidelines.

    It small mindedness. Where the virus hasn't hit a person personally, they just don't care. Some people want to believe that the virus is not real or its just a little cold and they don't care about anything or life beyond themselves.

    I mean here's a new virus and our governments are trying to surpress the virus.


  • #5178
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,984 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Not disagreeing or agreeing with you. I was responding to your point that



    Whatever about when they did it, they did it in a pretty much deferential way:

    "As I have said repeatedly since my return from Beijing, the Chinese government is to be congratulated for the extraordinary measures it has taken to contain the outbreak"

    "The speed with which China detected the outbreak, isolated the virus, sequenced the genome and shared it with WHO and the world are very impressive, and beyond words. So is China’s commitment to transparency and to supporting other countries."

    "In many ways, China is actually setting a new standard for outbreak response. It’s not an exaggeration."

    "Let me be clear: this declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China. On the contrary, WHO continues to have confidence in China’s capacity to control the outbreak."

    They're still not promoting a "Chinese agenda" though, are they? Offering words of encouragement and congratulations isn't promoting an agenda.

    As I said, you don't get cooperation out of countries if you start out by kicking them in the balls. The WHO and others were merely giving them lip service, because they need to know what was going on in Wuhan.

    Say, if the WHO, America, Britain, France, Germany and what have you simply just called the Chinese reports lies in January. What do you think would have happened then. China would take umbrage, naturally, and close off itself to the outside, leaving us all completely in the dark and therefore worse prepared if and when the virus spread out from there.

    It would have served nobody any purpose at all.

    So, when countries and organisations hand off a few kind words about China's tackling of Covid-19 (and in fairness some of what they did was impressive) all they are doing is simply showing that they are not antagonists in this situation.

    Which is a good thing, if you are relying on them to provide you with information and they are they only one's with any.

    It's very, very, basic diplomacy.


  • #5179
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,464 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    I never said the whole industry... I said it would be great to see about 50% of pubs go under.

    Children go without food and homes get repossessed because of alcohol addiction too, just to remind you.

    And like I said, all the people spending their time and considerable amounts of money in pubs every week... they will go elsewhere. And they will spend that money elsewhere. So the pub sector shrinking, will cause other sectors to grow as a result... and job opportunities will grow in these sectors too.

    Not to mention all the other positive net effects of having less people spending their free time in boozers... there are plenty of more positive things you do with your time than sit in a pub drinking!

    Can't wait to go back to a football match on a Friday night and then go for a few pints after. I think I can live with spending 50 quid on a Friday night after working all week.

    Or do you want to tell me I cant do that either ?

    People like to go and catch up with friends and others in the pub, let them have their social life without being shamed about it.


  • #5180
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    there are plenty of more positive things you do with your time than sit in a pub drinking!

    Bollox. Name just one! :D


  • #5181
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,984 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    keynes wrote: »
    A more fundamental question why the hell are they banging out tweets about "no clear evidence" on immunity

    Because they have NO CLEAR EVIDENCE.
    keynes wrote: »
    , human to human transmission etc.

    Because in early January, China said in their preliminary tests, they found no evidence of H2H transmission.

    :confused:


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  • #5182
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    ek motor wrote: »
    Where in that article does it say SARS-CoV-2 is a retrovirus ?

    I think they meant hiv is a retrovirus


  • #5183
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,464 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Bollox. Name just one! :D

    Telling people they cant go drinking looks like one


  • #5184
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Nobody tried that.

    They were correcting you on your reading comprehension. ;)

    Get lost. You were talking nonsense last night and even more today.

    You and the WHO were handed their ass*s in the last 24 hours.

    Yet again the WHO have been caught out talking sh*t. And no amount of word games will change that.

    If they don't have proof then they need to stay quiet.


  • #5185
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    The context to WHO's tweets on immunity is important. They warned against the idea of immunity passports or certs for workers who wanted to return to work or travel for example.

    However these will be required to get us back to some sort of "normal".

    By the way when they do come up with a vaccine we will all have to show proof we got the vaccine. This is pretty much a given.

    Well, they’ll be unreliable based on current antibody testing. Many factors can give a false positive or negative as an excellent post here outlined yesterday or the day before. So people who have never had covid 19 could think they did have had it, especially as some people are relatively asymptomatic. Somebody could get a false positive, assume they were an asymptomatic carrier and go out, catch it and bring it home.


  • #5186
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    April 2021, good luck with that. There wont be a restaurant or pub left in that case. Theres a full thread on this but hospitality bodies are currently engaged with the government on how to reopen.

    Think your in for a bit of a shock whenever they open in a few months

    I would love pubs and restaurants to open as soon as possible but I am 99% positive it will not be this year.


  • #5187
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Can't wait to go back to a football match on a Friday night and then go for a few pints after. I think I can live with spending 50 quid on a Friday night after working all week.

    Or do you want to tell me I cant do that either ?

    People like to go and catch up with friends and others in the pub, let them have their social life without being shamed about it.

    Who am I shaming?

    Alcohol is not essential for any of the things you mentioned... it's a poison that ruins your body and ruins many lives.

    You'll never stop people from drinking or taking drugs. My only hope is that this crisis might put a huge dent in the industry... so there will be less of you guys around. And some of those people that might have gone into a pub (that no longer exists) will choose something better to do with their time!

    I'm not naive, I don't think you could kill off an entire industry or culture overnight... but you could deliver a hefty blow to it. This virus could be the catalyst for that. :)


  • #5188
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Tony EH wrote: »
    They're still not promoting a "Chinese agenda" though, are they? Offering words of encouragement and congratulations isn't promoting an agenda.

    As I said, you don't get cooperation out of countries if you start out by kicking them in the balls. The WHO and others were merely giving them lip service, because they need to know what was going on in Wuhan.

    Say, if the WHO, America, Britain, France, Germany and what have you simply just called the Chinese reports lies in January. What do you think would have happened then. China would take umbrage, naturally, and close off itself to the outside, leaving us all completely in the dark and therefore worse prepared if and when the virus spread out from there.

    It would have served nobody any purpose at all.

    So, when countries and organisations hand off a few kind words about China's tackling of Covid-19 (and in fairness some of what they did was impressive) all they are doing is simply showing that they are not antagonists in this situation.

    Which is a good thing, if you are relying on them to provide you with information and they are they only one's with any.

    It's very, very, basic diplomacy.

    Not a million miles away from you on this, but they need to be careful how they do public diplomacy. And their tweeting of the Chinese position that there was no evidence of person to person transmission at the time, while only stating a position that the Chinese had, does to an extent suggest to the general public that "there is nothing to worry about here, move along".

    They also stated "facts rather than fear". Unfortunately, the facts are coming slow, and I would have personally preferred a bit more fear in advance. It was the position that anything shown to be "chinese avoidance" was racist, and led to scenes like that dope encouraging people to hug him "I'm not a virus I'm a human" nonsense :rolleyes:

    https://nj1015.com/deadly-virtue-signaling-caused-covid-19-to-kill-italians-opinion/


  • #5189
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,071 ✭✭✭jackboy


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    By the way when they do come up with a vaccine we will all have to show proof we got the vaccine. This is pretty much a given.

    Or a reliable antibody test to show we are immune.


  • #5190
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,776 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Haven't antibodies already been proven? New York did testing already. 14% of the population had antibodies.


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  • #5191
    VonLuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Facts and figures please on how unlikely it is.

    The fact is that if you have zero contact with the Covid-19 virus, you will not contract Covid-19. What more do you need?

    If you adhere by social distancing measures the chances of catching it is minute. If you're looking for figures, that is impossible for anyone to give.


This discussion has been closed.
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