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Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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  • #4412
    FrToddUnctious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭FrToddUnctious


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Why is this not being more widely discussed by the media ? Covid is potentially much more dangerous than initially thought

    The article was posted 12 hours ago, maybe give them a chance?


  • #4413
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Ficheall wrote: »
    It's not pointless if it dispels the "it's only old people" notion that people are using to justify selfishly abandoning precautions.

    It is pointless because its not based in evidence. There is so far no evidence that young people are having strokes as a result of this virus. We all know its not only old people dying, although they are disproportionately affected. But the vast majority of people, young and old, will recover. Let's not forget that.


  • #4414
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    All this rampant speculation about strokes, heart problems etc is pointless. We won't know anything for sure, from death rate to potential long term effects until after this is all over. I've been reading, and at times, stressing, about this since January, when it was "only" in China.

    Its here now (wherever here is for posters,its here), we're dealing with it, successfully in most places. Its not the apocalypse. I'm done stressing. I've done my part to flatten the curve along with most people. It's worked. Now let's gradually get back to whatever normal we can.

    I think it's a major positive. They are starting to understand how this virus works. The more that's understood, the most brilliant minds in the world weigh in, and they learn how to treat it.

    Imagine if it's blood thinners that manages to avoid the severe symptoms of this disease. We can fix that!

    Once we have a system of treatment, life returns to what we know as normal.
    Bravo to the scientists learning more every day globally and sharing that info.


  • #4415
    jibber5000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭jibber5000


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Why is this not being more widely discussed by the media ? Covid is potentially much more dangerous than initially thought

    It still appears to be a very rare phenomenon. Unfortunately, all we have is speculation on so many issues relating to Covid at this point.


  • #4416
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,617 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    That's the big question isn't it. It would seem likely that this will be the new reality, and once the health service can cope on an on-going basis, something that becomes the new flu. (Not that I would compare this to flu :eek:)

    This is more or less what the HSE Consultant outlined in the AMA with boards.


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  • #4417
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    It is pointless because its not based in evidence. There is so far no evidence that young people are having strokes as a result of this virus. We all know its not only old people dying, although they are disproportionately affected. But the vast majority of people, young and old, will recover. Let's not forget that.

    The blood clots are hard evidence? Did you read the articles?
    They discovered it first via post mortems and ICU what's app chats
    Where they realised they were all seeing the same clotting issues and that sparked a wider conversation with mount Sinai in us wading in.. and China had seen the same?


  • #4418
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    I think it's a major positive. They are starting to understand how this virus works. The more that's understood, the most brilliant minds in the world weigh in, and they learn how to treat it.

    Imagine if it's blood thinners that manages to avoid the severe symptoms of this disease. We can fix that!

    Once we have a system of treatment, life returns to what we know as normal.
    Bravo to the scientists learning more every day globally and sharing that info.

    No need to take the piss. I've been here since thread one. I happen to think life will return to normal, sooner rather than later. We'll deal with it like we have with so many other things, regardless of your political persuasion.


  • #4419
    mandrake04
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    is_that_so wrote: »
    NZ has an average population density of 46 people per sq mile, about a quarter of ours. We have had our issues but we did start well enough until every hypochondriac in the country demanded to get tested once the online system was set up. 20,000 requests a day and what was tested was barely at 3% positive some days.

    That’s exactly right their population is roughly same but as you say density is a lot lower in pockets here and there but their land area is 3.5 times that of Ireland split across 2 islands, that just makes the logistics of testing more challenging.

    115K tests conducted in NZ just 1.27% were positive cases, compare that with S. Korea 1.8% positive cases

    The issue are unless you testing properly you don’t know if you are Arthur or fućking Martha.


  • #4420
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,525 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    No need to take the piss. I've been here since thread one. I happen to think life will return to normal, sooner rather than later. We'll deal with it like we have with so many other things.

    We are been told that life will not return to normal soon.

    There is no normal when you are living with a virus that causes havoc to 20% of the population, and the term "mild" is greatly exaggerated for large swathes of others.


  • #4421
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    That's the big question isn't it. It would seem likely that this will be the new reality, and once the health service can cope on an on-going basis, something that becomes the new flu. (Not that I would compare this to flu :eek:)

    If I was still in my 20s and 30s I would probably - no definitely - be quite a bit more blasè about covid 19, except for not wanting to infect others. I am not overly concerned now as Im healthy thank goodness but being 52 means I am edging up towards the more affected cohorts. So there is less of a casual shrug on my behalf in that I don't want this fecken thing. I hate that it has come into being. I also feel really REALLY sorry for elder people in community settings because they have to face into a much greater fear of consequences and simultaneously a much higher presence in their surroundings of this damn disease. If they can face it, I have been telling myself, then I should be brave like them too.


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  • #4422
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    No need to take the piss. I've been here since thread one. I happen to think life will return to normal, sooner rather than later. We'll deal with it like we have with so many other things.

    Been here with you Ceadoin.

    From the first thread when warning of the virus/global impact I'm called a fear monger, and when I see a gleam of light on the horizon I'm 'taking the piss'..

    Have a beautiful day!! And enjoy the sun!


  • #4423
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Why is this not being more widely discussed by the media ? Covid is potentially much more dangerous than initially thought

    The reason it not being is because it's not proven .
    Many of these papers realised are simply not peer reviewed .
    Many have been released from the same groups that simply contradict each other.
    It's going to take years of research to prove if the virus caused the problem or if the problem was there all along and just made worse by the virus.
    The treatment of the patient could in theory be a factor.


  • #4424
    D.Q
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    It is pointless because its not based in evidence. There is so far no evidence that young people are having strokes as a result of this virus. We all know its not only old people dying, although they are disproportionately affected. But the vast majority of people, young and old, will recover. Let's not forget that.

    Yeah a story about young people having strokes is obviously going to attract eyes. It's pretty sensational and awful. But I think we also need to remember that while that is a scary prospect, the statistics show that the vast vast majority of relatively young people will survive it. It's not like people are dropping dead all over the place from stroke. It's a very small amount of people affected.


  • #4425
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    No need to take the piss. I've been here since thread one. I happen to think life will return to normal, sooner rather than later. We'll deal with it like we have with so many other things, regardless of your political persuasion.


    we will deal with it but how we proceed is the question. Covid throws new things out there everyday. it is a nove virus as you know and the med community are learning all the time and reassessing. THey have patients with unusually low oxygen levels who come into A/e talking when they should be collapsed. THey are having to reasses use of vents, now we have blood clotting issues. It is an unconventional diesease.


  • #4426
    D.Q
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    "I've been here since thread one" is an absolutely ridiculous statement haha are we gatekeeping ****ing pandemics now


  • #4427
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Boggles wrote: »
    We are been told that life will not return to normal soon.

    There is no normal when you are living with a virus that causes havoc to 20% of the population, and the term "mild" is greatly exaggerated for large swathes of others.

    Its not 20% of the "population" though is it? Its 20% of infected people who are tested. And studies suggest that 50% + of infected people don't even have symptoms. So..


  • #4428
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Not in Kansas wrote: »
    Hi there Speckle. I actually work in the field of Arts & Health and people working in that area have been quite active in reaching out to each other to talk about ways to work through the crisis. artsandhealth.ie had a video conference the other day and there is also a global conference coming up.

    In terms of giggging musicians and creative artists, the Arts Council have a limited number of supports. The Nialler9 - Irish Music industry Facebook page is a place where questions can be asked and information shared. The key word is: adapt!

    Many musicians I know are livestreaming quality home concerts with a PayPal Tip Jar. Many are also offering online lessons or bespoke video tutorials. It's going to be a rocky ride, but look for support anywhere you can. If you find a way to be a musician within your own community you will be surprised at what may pop up.
    thanks for your thoughtful reply.

    Checked the artsandhealth.ie site. Some very interesting pieces there re practising amidst a pandemic. Really get them. Loved the bit about juggling your art, home schooling the kids and having to share internet bandwidth. Also found interesting the comparsions of arts practise during the plague centuries ago.
    links for other artists that are interested.

    http://www.artsandhealth.ie/2020/04/23/covid-chronicles-aideen-barry-portrait-of-an-artist-in-a-time-of-plague/
    http://www.artsandhealth.ie/2020/04/19/covid-chronicles-living-inside-by-eszter-nemethi/


  • #4429
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Why is this not being more widely discussed by the media ? Covid is potentially much more dangerous than initially thought

    It's baffling alright. The more i read about this the more i realise this didn't come from some bat and is something a lot more sinister.


  • #4430
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    D.Q wrote: »
    "I've been here since thread one" is an absolutely ridiculous statement haha are we gatekeeping ****ing pandemics now

    I mean I've been following this for what seems like ****ing years now. Like in January I was mentioning it to people. Gatekeeping my arse. I can see how its developed over that time because I was following it obsessively and tbh I don't feel worried anymore.


  • #4431
    Unelected CMO
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 35 ✭Unelected CMO


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    It's baffling alright. The more i read about this the more i realise this didn't come from some bat and is something a lot more sinister.

    Source?


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  • #4432
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I mean I've been following this for what seems like ****ing years now. Like in January I was mentioning it to people. Gatekeeping my arse. I can see how its developed over that time and tbh I don't feel worried anymore.

    A lot of people have been following it since January and it is concerning that just as they think they have seen it all that damn little virus throws another spanne in the workslike the clotting technique or low oxygen, ability to mutate, on the one hand fascinating for those who study novel diseases but on the other frustrating when trying to make a vaccine.


  • #4433
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,594 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Unelected CMO wrote:
    Source?
    He's giving an opinion.


  • #4434
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    SeaBreezes wrote: »
    The blood clots are hard evidence? Did you read the articles?
    They discovered it first via post mortems and ICU what's app chats
    Where they realised they were all seeing the same clotting issues and that sparked a wider conversation with mount Sinai in us wading in.. and China had seen the same?

    Just reading up there and having low oxygen and there's an increased risk of blood clots.

    We all need a pulse oximeter to measure oxygen and get treatment as quickly as possible when oxygen levels fall below normal.


  • #4435
    Unelected CMO
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 35 ✭Unelected CMO


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He's giving an opinion.

    He’s not. He is suggesting that due to the rigorous research he is conducting, he has deduced that the virus didn’t come from a flying mammal but rather is “something more sinister” I’m just asking him to point us to the obviously high standard, peer reviewed things he is reading that has lead him to his conclusions.


  • #4436
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,594 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Unelected CMO wrote:
    He’s not. He is suggesting that due to the rigorous research he is conducting, he has deduced that the virus didn’t come from a flying mammal but rather is “something more sinister†I’m just asking him to point us to the obviously high standard, peer reviewed things he his reading that has lead him to his conclusions.
    Seems like his own opinion to me.


  • #4437
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Just reading up there and having low oxygen and there's an increased risk of blood clots.

    We all need a pulse oximeter to measure oxygen and get treatment as quickly as possible when oxygen levels fall below normal.

    Can buy them online and they come into Aldi and Lidl when they sell the bp cuffs etc. Handy yoke to have. Interesting reading the med professions disbelieve at some of the oxygen levels, so low the person should be on a vent but they are sitting talking to the doctor, it is an interesting anomaly alright.


  • #4438
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    khalessi wrote: »
    A lot of people have been following it since January and it is concerning that just as they think they have seen it all that damn little virus throws another spanne in the workslike the clotting technique or low oxygen, ability to mutate, on the one hand fascinating for those who study novel diseases but on the other frustrating when trying to make a vaccine.

    But is there actual evidence that this virus causes clotting issues though? Or is it just a few anecdotal reports?


  • #4439
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    One thing I’m finding very strange about this virus is why it is proving so difficult to develop a reliable antibody test. This should, in theory, be relatively easy or certainly much easier than finding a vaccine.
    A virtually bulletproof antibody test is a prerequisite for developing a vaccine. Otherwise how could you prove that a vaccine works or not.
    There are all sorts of theories about why some people do not get Covid at all when they are exposed to it or are asymptomatic if the do get it. There are suggestions that maybe some people have antibodies for other viruses that just happen to protect them against Covid. I’ve heard suggestions that the BCG vaccine offers some protection. Nobody knows for sure but it might explain why it’s difficult to develop a reliable antibody test that works in every case.
    I have also head that anti-viral drugs might be the answer and point to the way HIV has been controlled. That would be scary because typically anti-virals have to be taken long term if not for life. No cure or vaccine has ever been found for HIV.
    I have no doubt that the best and brightest minds are working on this but so far there are very few answers.


  • #4440
    jibber5000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭jibber5000


    khalessi wrote: »
    Can buy them online and they come into Aldi and Lidl when they sell the bp cuffs etc. Handy yoke to have. Interesting reading the med professions disbelieve at some of the oxygen levels, so low the person should be on a vent but they are sitting talking to the doctor, it is an interesting anomaly alright.

    It is undoubtedly helpful but can be very deceptive in Covid.

    A person may have a good oxygen saturation on the pulse oximeter. An arterial blood gas is then taken however which reveals that the oxygen levels in their blood are very low.

    In short, if you're short of breath and symptomatic I wouldn't solely rely on pulse oximeter.


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  • #4441
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    But is there actual evidence that this virus causes clotting issues though? Or is it just a few anecdotal reports?

    Is it Paul and Bob sharing warstories post surgery or have they set up medical conferences? Well the fact that they are noting it as being unusual and striking in the way it is occuring ahd highlighting it to the medical community is more then ancedotal but have they written studies done research on i, I dont know. What is interesting is that this virus is novel and as so is throwing up new effects all the time, a few weeks ago people were pooing idea it damaged the heart and it is now known that it can, the low oxygen levels were queried, the loss of smell and taste, red eyes, are vents causing more harm then good.

    These were all unknowns at the beginning but are now being studied and s recognised as being symptoms or for some patients resutls of Covid19 and it looks like the clotting is another one


This discussion has been closed.
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