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what CoronaVirus precautions are your club taking?

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    #632
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,199 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    celtic_oz wrote: »
    https://vm.tiktok.com/Wv4M67/
    It's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, MEEEEEE!


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    #633
    fred funk }{
    Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    NYC Opening courses


    https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/new-york-golf-courses-can-reopen-with-coronavirus-restrictions/


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    #634
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,199 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    fred funk }{ wrote: »
    NYC Opening courses


    https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/new-york-golf-courses-can-reopen-with-coronavirus-restrictions/
    That's all NY state courses, not just NYC.

    The idea of putting something in the cup to stop the ball dropping down into it is a good one. I saw one course using what looked like a short piece of waste pipe (the 40mm or 50mm diameter type) which the pin can go down through, but prevents the ball dropping all the way to the bottom, making it easy to take out without touching any of the surfaces.


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    #635
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    It's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, MEEEEEE!


    As I've said before "all in favour of proshop and club house being closed, but I dont see why people cant play golf on their own, or with people they live with.

    Golf by its nature does not involve a lot of proximity with anyone else."

    Some people think that there needs to be some sort of penance to be paid during the shutdown and that there should be no enjoyment. Thats why no-one complained when people go to church and stay in their cars even though its outside the 2 KM limit ( it's penance )

    There is less risk playing golf alone than going to the hardware dept's that recently opened, and thats a FACT


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    #636
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    The way I see it, is that it is very likely that the first openings will be membership only. This will make tracing in cases were someone does contract the virus much easier

    I think 3 balls will be the number too


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    #637
    jamesbondings
    Registered Users Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭jamesbondings


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    The way I see it, is that it is very likely that the first openings will be membership only. This will make tracing in cases were someone does contract the virus much easier

    I think 3 balls will be the number too

    Agree about members only. Might help some clubs convert those on the fence. I only joined corballis about a week before lockdown and have 2 or 3 mates ready to join too. They just didn't get a chance before lockdown.

    Hopefully we can get back out soon enough. I'm going mad here at home. Hardware shops being open only adds to my stress - gives the better half ammunition for me to do "stuff". What I wouldn't give for a few hours on a course 😂


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    #638
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    fred funk }{ wrote: »
    NYC Opening courses


    https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/new-york-golf-courses-can-reopen-with-coronavirus-restrictions/

    Within the next week there will be more deaths from Covid than the numbers of Americans killed during the Vietnam war. I’m not too sure we should be following their example.
    The GUI are amongst a number of sporting organisations preparing a submission to the government making a case for the resumption of their sports. I would be hopeful that this will lead to the resumption of golf in restricted circumstances.


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    #639
    fred funk }{
    Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Within the next week there will be more deaths from Covid than the numbers of Americans killed during the Vietnam war. I’m not too sure we should be following their example.
    The GUI are amongst a number of sporting organisations preparing a submission to the government making a case for the resumption of their sports. I would be hopeful that this will lead to the resumption of golf in restricted circumstances.

    I wasn't implying we should follow their lead but the more golf that's opened up around the world will give us a better chance of getting back playing.

    Whether we like it or not, we tend to follow the UK and US in a lot of things (not all thank God).


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    #640
    Glebee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Glebee


    Has the media started to put a positive spin on things all of a sudden?? Can suddenly see us being back on 5th May with club houses still closed and social distancing restrictions.


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    #641
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Within the next week there will be more deaths from Covid than the numbers of Americans killed during the Vietnam war. I’m not too sure we should be following their example.
    The GUI are amongst a number of sporting organisations preparing a submission to the government making a case for the resumption of their sports. I would be hopeful that this will lead to the resumption of golf in restricted circumstances.

    Every week there's a new one of these little "stats".

    You just shouldn't look at the US like that. View it state by state.

    NY are doing a fantastic job while Indiana for example are not.

    European media often miss the nuance of the US political machine. It's vastly different to anything in Europe but they make it seem apples to apples when it's not remotely the case.


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    #642
    jamfer
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭jamfer


    In this instance we are not following either the UK or the US, I don't believe we should be putting any pressure on our representatives to even think about it. This whole "the cure must not be worse than the disease" is code for I am wealthy enough to be able to protect myself, but my businesses are not making money so I need you back at work making me money. You are expendible, it is the economy that is important. Do not, for one second, think that the US or the UK have their citizens interests first and foremost. There is a mendacious calculation of accceptable losses, Trump was pitcing 100,000 to 250,000 as likely. Now he's talking that 60,000 dead would be an acceptable toll. That it will be a success. As of now, 12 noon on Sunday 19th April they are on 39,015. 3,000 killed on September 11, 2001 led them to invest trillions into a decades long "War on Terror".

    Covid-19? Get back to work folks, we need the economy! Sweep them bodies out of the way, strong economy coming through.


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    #643
    Whiplash85
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Whiplash85


    Iker Short Thumbnail wrote: »
    Every week there's a new one of these little "stats".

    You just shouldn't look at the US like that. View it state by state.

    NY are doing a fantastic job while Indiana for example are not.

    European media often miss the nuance of the US political machine. It's vastly different to anything in Europe but they make it seem apples to apples when it's not remotely the case.

    Exactly. If you look at Arizona or South Carolina for instance. Populations of 7m and 5 m respectively. They both have lower covid 19 deaths than Ireland. Vastly lower. But people are just consumed with the guy with the funny hair and strange skin tone in the White House who is tweeting loads of rubbish. On a state by state comparison with Ireland I would say US numbers are better than ours in most states and they have more freedoms than us.


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    #644
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,199 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Whiplash85 wrote: »
    Exactly. If you look at Arizona or South Carolina for instance. Populations of 7m and 5 m respectively. They both have lower covid 19 deaths than Ireland. Vastly lower. But people are just consumed with the guy with the funny hair and strange skin tone in the White House who is tweeting loads of rubbish. On a state by state comparison with Ireland I would say US numbers are better than ours in most states and they have more freedoms than us.
    That's true. But a lot of US states are very spread out population wise and also don't have the same kind of global (or even cross-state line) travel that we would have. It's very much apples and oranges.


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    #645
    fred funk }{
    Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    jamfer wrote: »
    In this instance we are not following either the UK or the US, I don't believe we should be putting any pressure on our representatives to even think about it. This whole "the cure must not be worse than the disease" is code for I am wealthy enough to be able to protect myself, but my businesses are not making money so I need you back at work making me money. You are expendible, it is the economy that is important. Do not, for one second, think that the US or the UK have their citizens interests first and foremost. There is a mendacious calculation of accceptable losses, Trump was pitcing 100,000 to 250,000 as likely. Now he's talking that 60,000 dead would be an acceptable toll. That it will be a success. As of now, 12 noon on Sunday 19th April they are on 39,015. 3,000 killed on September 11, 2001 led them to invest trillions into a decades long "War on Terror".

    Covid-19? Get back to work folks, we need the economy! Sweep them bodies out of the way, strong economy coming through.

    The reality is that if businesses don't get back working again fairly soon, a lot of them will remain closed permanently. That will have a huge knock-on affect across the economy via job losses.

    As they have said, what will open first are high value options, low risk/biggest return.


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    #646
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Whiplash85 wrote: »
    Exactly. If you look at Arizona or South Carolina for instance. Populations of 7m and 5 m respectively. They both have lower covid 19 deaths than Ireland. Vastly lower. But people are just consumed with the guy with the funny hair and strange skin tone in the White House who is tweeting loads of rubbish. On a state by state comparison with Ireland I would say US numbers are better than ours in most states and they have more freedoms than us.

    Population density per sq mile.
    Arizona : 63
    Sth Carolina: 158
    Ireland : 186

    Not really comparable tbh.

    Indiana is the closest to our population density and coincidentally their death rate is pretty much the same.

    Their restrictions also sound familiar:

    Indiana's "Stay-at-Home" order was extended through April 20, and Gov. Eric Holcomb says he plans to extend it again, through May 1. That means you should only venture out for things that are essential to the health and safety of you, your family members and others in your household. Here are some examples:
    • Getting medical supplies or medication
    • Visiting a health care professional
    • Going to the grocery store
    • Delivering food, groceries or cleaning products to members of your family
    • Caring for a family member or pet in another household.
    • Going outside for exercise (while maintaining social distancing)

    Strangely their courses are open but competitions are cancelled until May 24th.


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    #647
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Population density per sq mile.
    Arizona : 63
    Sth Carolina: 158
    Ireland : 186

    Not really comparable tbh.

    Indiana is the closest to our population density and coincidentally their death rate is pretty much the same.

    Their restrictions also sound familiar:

    Indiana's "Stay-at-Home" order was extended through April 20, and Gov. Eric Holcomb says he plans to extend it again, through May 1. That means you should only venture out for things that are essential to the health and safety of you, your family members and others in your household. Here are some examples:
    • Getting medical supplies or medication
    • Visiting a health care professional
    • Going to the grocery store
    • Delivering food, groceries or cleaning products to members of your family
    • Caring for a family member or pet in another household.
    • Going outside for exercise (while maintaining social distancing)

    Strangely their courses are open but competitions are cancelled until May 24th.

    None of them are particularly comparable.

    Comparing a state in the US with Ireland or really any country is so difficult that it is effectively pointless.

    There are a myriad of factors to consider, age profile, underlying health, population density, ICU capacity, testing capacity, weather, incubation time & restrictive measures to name a few.

    Looking at population density and deaths then deciding that makes us most like Indiana is futile.

    For example, Indiana has only conducted about 70% the tests which Ireland has done but have 4x our ICU capacity.

    Apples to Oranges again.


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    #648
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    The Robert Koch Institute who do all the virology knowledge and data crunching for the German government released some interesting figures about a week ago.

    The core message is in the graph below.
    Full article here: https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Die-drastischen-Corona-Verbote-bringen-kaum-etwas-4707056.html "The drastic Corona lockdown has barely any effect"

    It focuses on the development of that R number, the one that says how many people get infected from one infected person.

    And it appears from a starting value of between 3 and 4 (exponential growth) it got down to about 1 a month ago and hovers around there ever since. Remember we need it there to easy the pressure on the hospitals and of course ideally we want it below 1 to stop the spread altogether.

    The interesting bit and the one that relates to golf and such is in the timeline.

    It appears that the fall off came from the lockdown 1.0; the working from home or not at all unless you're in an essential job, the improvement of hygienic standards (wash your hands) and the distancing.

    It appears that the introduction of the more stringent measures aka lockdown 2.0 where we closed parks and beaches and golf courses and are told to stay at home didnt really have much of an impact after that.

    I guess thats why Germany feels its possible to try paddling back on many of those.

    A bit early for an 'I told you so' but encouraging in general and especially for our sport. Maybe we will be back to playing (with restrictions?) after May 5th.

    reproduktion-347b9236d6b3ef13.jpeg


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    #649
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,199 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Alan Kelly of the GUI talking about the chances of a gradual opening of courses in the not too distant future. Initially small groups (three ball max), members only and expanded time sheet gapping. Worth a listen.


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    #650
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    The Robert Koch Institute who do all the virology knowledge and data crunching for the German government released some interesting figures about a week ago.

    The core message is in the graph below.
    Full article here: https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Die-drastischen-Corona-Verbote-bringen-kaum-etwas-4707056.html "The drastic Corona lockdown has barely any effect"

    It focuses on the development of that R number, the one that says how many people get infected from one infected person.

    And it appears from a starting value of between 3 and 4 (exponential growth) it got down to about 1 a month ago and hovers around there ever since. Remember we need it there to easy the pressure on the hospitals and of course ideally we want it below 1 to stop the spread altogether.

    The interesting bit and the one that relates to golf and such is in the timeline.

    It appears that the fall off came from the lockdown 1.0; the working from home or not at all unless you're in an essential job, the improvement of hygienic standards (wash your hands) and the distancing.

    It appears that the introduction of the more stringent measures aka lockdown 2.0 where we closed parks and beaches and golf courses and are told to stay at home didnt really have much of an impact after that.

    I guess thats why Germany feels its possible to try paddling back on many of those.

    A bit early for an 'I told you so' but encouraging in general and especially for our sport. Maybe we will be back to playing (with restrictions?) after May 5th.

    I certainly hope you're not basing your potential "I told you so" on that graph.

    Without getting too deep into the amateur epidemiology, the immediate thing I notice is that the graph above is a reproductive number for Germany and not for Ireland.

    It's not remotely comparable.

    Notwithstanding being the 3rd oldest country in the world, they have managed to control the virus incredibly well among the elderly. That's possibly the thing Ireland have managed worst of all.

    That makes it very clear that German lockdown measures/versions and their timelines do not directly map on to us.

    I'm not saying we won't get back or that it's not a good sign per se but it means very little to Ireland. Our situation is unique as is every other country's.


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    #651
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    the German government released some interesting figures

    I'm not discounting the data, but have you ever been to Germany? I guarantee day one of lockdown 1.0 will have been followed to the tee by the population all across Germany simultaneously. As such their data set likely does not map perfectly to other European countries populations :eek:


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    #652
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,199 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    RoadRunner wrote: »
    I'm not discounting the data, but have you ever been to Germany? I guarantee day one of lockdown 1.0 will have been followed to the tee by the population all across Germany simultaneously. As such their data set likely does not map perfectly to other European countries populations :eek:
    The other issue is the delay between infection, symptoms, testing and results. All governments were operating at least a week behind the data and they would have been grossly negligent not to act on the figures they were getting. Hindsight might indicate that higher levels of lockdown may not have been necessary, but that's still not clear and would have been a huge gamble. And even the 'lockdown 2.0' was not a full lockdown, so essential services needed to be protected.


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    #653
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I know Germany isn't the same as Ireland but the numbers are what the numbers are. And the lockdown and its stages was very much comparable to Ireland's and compliance is the same I'd say. Vast vast majority goes along with it and a few idiots around, too. I have family over there. If anything I would have said Germany's numbers might be more accelerated than Ireland's due to higher population density?

    It's not a bad trend, let's agree on that.


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    #654
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    I know Germany isn't the same as Ireland but the numbers are what the numbers are. And the lockdown and its stages was very much comparable to Ireland's and compliance is the same I'd say. Vast vast majority goes along with it and a few idiots around, too. I have family over there. If anything I would have said Germany's numbers might be more accelerated than Ireland's due to higher population density?

    It's not a bad trend, let's agree on that.

    Take Dublin city, our most densely populated city, it represents approx 11% of our population.

    Berlin/Munich/Stuttgart represent around 7% of Germany's population and are their 3 most densely populated cities.

    Dublin and Munich about same population density.

    Dublin around 15% more densely populated than Munich.

    Dublin around 25% more densely populated than Stuttgart.

    Ireland is more densely populated than Germany in the densely populated areas.

    Nationwide, Germany has a population density of around 623 people per sq mile, Ireland has a population density of 190 people per sq mile. I think population density is only one factor, it can differ just so much.

    Like I said, it's just extremely complex and hard mapping one to another.


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    #655
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I'm not saying that those numbers are transferrable. Maybe they are, maybe they're not. I don't know. That was never my point. I should have been clearer.

    What I am saying is those numbers - Germany numbers or not - tell us something about how the virus spreads and what is effective against that spread and what is not.

    It appears the initial lockdown that had us away from gatherings like work, schools, pubs, restaurants, public transport etc with observing hygiene and distancing was an effective measure. It appears keeping us inside on top of it doesn't add much to it if anything. It is an ineffective measure but also the most restrictive one.


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    #656
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,845 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    RoadRunner wrote: »
    I'm not discounting the data, but have you ever been to Germany? I guarantee day one of lockdown 1.0 will have been followed to the tee by the population all across Germany simultaneously. As such their data set likely does not map perfectly to other European countries populations :eek:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3EBs7sCOzo


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    #657
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    ^ That is funny. I could totally see that conversation happening alright.


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    #658
    newport2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭newport2


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    ^ That is funny. I could totally see that conversation happening alright.

    I remember being in Munich years ago heading home from pub/club at about 2.30am. Reached a road and not a car in sight (it was deserted, small city centre road), so I proceeded to cross. I sensed something had changed and realised I was the only one crossing. Looked behind me and sure enough about 10 people were waiting for the green man, looking at me as if I'd just carried out a mass shooting. I'll never forget the look of horror on one woman's face. I scurried off quickly.


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    #659
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Its safe to say that such an observation may not be representative for other parts of Germany.
    Munich .Bavaria. Those weird catholics down south. Need I say more?


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    #660
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    I don’t like the sound of the utterings of our political and medical masters these last few days regarding the relaxation of the lockdown. They seem to be suggesting that if there is any relaxation at all after May 5th, it will be very minimal and and we would still have to maintain ‘social distancing’ (which would seem to rule out most sporting activity) and that the at risk groups would still have to be ‘shielded’.
    The point has been made in this thread that golf is a game that can be played while keeping our distance but it wouldn’t look good politically if an exception were made for golf which is seen by many as an elitist passtime.
    Golf is one of the few popular sports that is actively played by the over 70s, who are being singled out as high risk for Covid and will be subject to different guidelines. My club, like many others, has a reduced subscription for that cohort of members and at last years AGM it was reported that over 30% of our members are in that category. Not all of them are actively playing, of course, but many are.
    There is no doubt in my mind that even if the government concedes that golf can be played with the ‘new normal’ distancing rules, the over 70s will be specifically excluded and will be banned from the courses either by the GUI or by the clubs themselves.
    This would be a sad state of affairs.


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    #661
    Benicetomonty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Benicetomonty


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I don’t like the sound of the utterings of our political and medical masters these last few days regarding the relaxation of the lockdown. They seem to be suggesting that if there is any relaxation at all after May 5th, it will be very minimal and and we would still have to maintain ‘social distancing’ (which would seem to rule out most sporting activity) and that the at risk groups would still have to be ‘shielded’.
    The point has been made in this thread that golf is a game that can be played while keeping our distance but it wouldn’t look good politically if an exception were made for golf which is seen by many as an elitist passtime.
    Golf is one of the few popular sports that is actively played by the over 70s, who are being singled out as high risk for Covid and will be subject to different guidelines. My club, like many others, has a reduced subscription for that cohort of members and at last years AGM it was reported that over 30% of our members are in that category. Not all of them are actively playing, of course, but many are.
    There is no doubt in my mind that even if the government concedes that golf can be played with the ‘new normal’ distancing rules, the over 70s will be specifically excluded and will be banned from the courses either by the GUI or by the clubs themselves.
    This would be a sad state of affairs.

    Id seriously doubt any club will accept responsibility for telling members who are over 70 that they cant play when everybody else can. Theyl either open for all with safety measures or they wont open. They might advise the most vulnerable to keep away but they wont insist upon it. Thered be absolute war, in my place anyway.


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