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Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #2672
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I find it remarkable that suggesting an infected person went from Wuhan to New York in November or December is akin to a conspiracy theory.

    What sort of absolute bellend do you have to be to argue that it's impossible it made it from a city of eleven million to a city of nine million.

    Impossible. You're a conspiracy theorist if you think it could have happened.


  • #2673
    rm212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭rm212


    owlbethere wrote: »
    Some airplanes are small and tight, it wouldnt really matter if the middle seat is free for social distancing.

    Yeah you're right... there is no way to safely fly on an airplane with social distancing rules... there should be a full ban on nonessential air travel, not a removed middle seat rule.


  • #2674
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,011 ✭✭✭growleaves


    rm212 wrote: »
    Yeah you're right... there is no way to safely fly on an airplane with social distancing rules... there should be a full ban on nonessential air travel, not a removed middle seat rule.


    Can we have a ban on the neologism 'nonessential'? Its inessential.


  • #2675
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I find it remarkable that suggesting an infected person went from Wuhan to New York in November or December is akin to a conspiracy theory.

    What sort of absolute bellend do you have to be to argue that it's impossible it made it from a city of eleven million to a city of nine million.

    Impossible. You're a conspiracy theorist if you think it could have happened.
    I linked to a 2018 study from Finland at some point in this thread which examined airports and infections. Those trays for putting your stuff on came out worst!


  • #2676
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10538997/flu-cases-soar-death-toll-intensive-care/

    When you see old articles like this, you would imagine that it was here and working it's tragic before we knew, and before it was even known as a new virus

    Holy fcuk


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  • #2677
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Some good news , cases look to be on downward trajectory. These are not my charts. I'm far too lazy for that craic. Luckily HPSC make them for us so feel free to critique them via post on why they are doing it wrong. I'm sure they welcome any and all feedback.

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/COVID-19%20Epidemiology%20report%20for%20NPHET%2022.04.2020_v1.0_website.pdf

    510627.png


    Some bad news. Number of health care worker as percentage of total rising. Now at 28%.

    510626.png


  • #2678
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    smelly sock wrote: »
    It's not that simple though. We can't continue with an indefinite lockdown of our economy. The benefits in terms of tackling Covid will be outweighed by the impact of unemployment and social problems caused by this.

    We need to plan for an easing of restrictions. I think everyone agrees with this. How we do it is another matter and I'm sure our policy makers are discussing that all the time.

    People who advocate for a lockdown to continue aren't living in the real world. This virus ain't going anywhere in the near future so lets try and coexist as best possible with it.

    Give the groups who are a minimal risk more freedom and let them keep the economy going for the less fortunate.

    Yep, maybe this is the 'divisive' part of the government plan? Those under 40/50 without conditions get out and work, etc. Hard if those are living with vulnerable people

    Looking like austria's idea of reopening shops is going slower than they'd like however, DIY shops are seeing trade but other small retailers arent having much at all. Guess it's hard to strike a balance between scaring people into lockdown but not so much they'll come out afterwards. Even if they opened everything, with social distancing, it means less staff, less potential footfall, etc.


  • #2679
    EB_2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 811 ✭✭✭EB_2013


    owlbethere wrote: »
    Some airplanes are small and tight, it wouldnt really matter if the middle seat is free for social distancing.

    Even if you had a whole aisle to yourself it wouldn't make much difference.

    Unless you could bring your own air supply I wouldn't fancy getting on a flight until the numbers are miniscule. Everytime I come off a flight I always end up with a cold a few days afterwards.


  • #2680
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    growleaves wrote: »
    Can we have a ban on the neologism 'nonessential'? Its inessential.
    It's actually non-essential! Unessential also exists.


  • #2681
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    ek motor wrote: »
    On the subject of wearing masks, a few things people may or may not have noticed:

    Austria made wearing masks compulsory in supermarkets and public transport on April 6th. New infections dropped 90% after this. (source - Dr. John Campbell's latest video)

    Both Slovakia and Czech Republic have made mask-wearing in public compulsory. Both countries have a much lower number of cases and related deaths than ourselves, despite all of these countries being more populous.

    This is what we need to do regardless how much they are telling us how great we are doing. The virus is here to stay, we need to wear face masks. It's a no brainer really.


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  • #2682
    lbj666
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭lbj666


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They are not sold on the effectiveness of them is why.

    They started doing the expected uturn on it last night.
    I've no problem with them telling lies at the beginning to ensure ppe was there for Frontline staff.


  • #2683
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Tony EH wrote: »
    People trying to hammer him over this is a bit silly, for sure. But at the same time, this is the title of his most important project. He really should know what it means.

    Not only that, he SHOULDN'T just be making up what it means out of whole cloth, when a 2 second Google search will inform him.

    Thanks for that Tony E Holohan... stop trying to defend your buddy simple Simon. He deserves the criticism, for such a ridiculous gaffe! :P

    But it's not even necessarily just that error, it's probably more so the implications for what else he might not quite understand. He is afterall, just some random minster who got dumped with this role, after the music stopped... because lets face it, nobody wants this poisoned chalice of a job.

    It's not like he was headhunted and chosen from an esteemed list of highly qualified candidates with great credentials to do the job! (And it shows - unfortunately)


  • #2684
    rm212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭rm212


    growleaves wrote: »
    Can we have a ban on the neologism 'nonessential'? Its inessential.

    Both words are well defined and nonessential is certainly not a neologism.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nonessential
    adjective
    not essential; not necessary:

    ORIGIN OF NONESSENTIAL
    First recorded in 1745–55

    Can we have a ban on nonessential pedantry?


  • #2685
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    Yeah but these people are putting an even greater burden on the system during this crisis. They should forgo obesity inducing foods until this crisis has abated. It's pure selfishness at this time.

    https://twitter.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/1251023936818688004?s=20

    It would be interesting to see how Obesity is impacting Covid deaths in the US.


  • #2686
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,011 ✭✭✭growleaves


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's actually non-essential! Unessential also exists.


    From now on, I'm going with 'void of essence'.


  • #2687
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    lbj666 wrote: »
    They started doing the expected uturn on it last night.
    I've no problem with them telling lies at the beginning to ensure ppe was there for Frontline staff.
    That was in a medical environment and all they did was change it to include more medical staff, based on WHO guidance. The position in relation to the rest of us has not changed.


  • #2688
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Ah you've finished the correspondence course in statistics. Good for you. When we did and what effects that had will be reviewed for Ireland not through any old graph that suits what you've already decided.
    The results as found speak for themselves, no opinion of mine, or yours will change that. Oh and the graphs are their official government ones, posted on wikipedia. Other sources of same are available. Again double our population, landlocked nation, higher living densities; 203 dead for them 769 dead for us. Include the figures for the island of Ireland - which we may as well with no border checks - and that difference is starker again.
    is_that_so wrote: »
    They are not sold on the effectiveness of them is why.
    It has been far more about the supply rather than the science. It's been written in black and white since this kicked off, by the WHO, the ECDC, the USCDC, the HSE. Masks are more needed for healthcare workers. The USCDC went further and stated not to buy masks because of their shortage of PPE for healthcare workers. A few authorities there are now suggesting face coverings and homemade masks over proper masks for this reason. The Czechs faced with similar PPE shortages went along with that idea from the start.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #2689
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brycen Round Symbol wrote: »
    You do realise that not all notified influenza cases here are swabbed and lab checked right?

    Clinical criteria diagnosis is commonly made without lab results to back that up, usually in a primary care setting.

    We had our own hospitals overrun here in December with 'the flu'. 15% increase approx on previous years despite a larger uptake in flu vaccines.

    Half of all patients in hospital emergency departments in December were there with flu like symptoms (and those are just the ones who were bad enough to wind up in hospital).

    A couple of relatives of mine ended up hospitalised but never tested positive for influenza while their blood results showed they were fighting 'something'.

    Article referred to New York where widespread Flu testing is completed to confirm cases
    The number of new confirmed flu cases in New York just for the week ending Dec. 14 was 3,264, which is a 77% increase. Of those 3,264 cases, 2,028 were in New York City, 319 were on Long Island and 119 were in Westchester.

    Dr. Dyan Hes, medical director at Gramercy Pediatrics, said the number of people who have the flu is likely even higher than the number of confirmed cases, since not everyone who comes in with symptoms is tested.


  • #2690
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    I honestly can’t believe that a compulsory mask wearing measure hasn’t been introduced yet. I’ve been wearing masks everywhere and getting funny looks.

    I can! In this country.

    We've been slavishly following WHO advice... so our leaders were never going to form any sort of opinion on this issue themselves. We've had to wait until it becomes painfully obvious, before getting any guidance from our "leaders"... (which of course, has more than likely cost us many lives!)


  • #2691
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    Yep, maybe this is the 'divisive' part of the government plan? Those under 40/50 without conditions get out and work, etc. Hard if those are living with vulnerable people

    Looking like austria's idea of reopening shops is going slower than they'd like however, DIY shops are seeing trade but other small retailers arent having much at all. Guess it's hard to strike a balance between scaring people into lockdown but not so much they'll come out afterwards. Even if they opened everything, with social distancing, it means less staff, less potential footfall, etc.

    I have noted as this goes on that the age, the magical age, at which one becomes vulnerable is dropping in posters' comments. Age should not be a factor in deciding vulnerability. There are many eighty year olds who are far healthier and fitter than people half their age. The focus should be on general health.


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  • #2692
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That was in a medical environment and all they did was change it to include more medical staff, based on WHO guidance. The position in relation to the rest of us has not changed.
    Indeed, the Schrodinger's mask position; masks are at the same time highly effective risk reducers in one setting, highly ineffective risk reducers in another.

    They have already stated that if someone in the home is sick, or caring for someone who is sick masks are a risk reducer and should be utilised, yet we know that asymptomatic and highly infectious people are common with this virus, but again masks magically lose their effectiveness outside clinical settings and the home of sick people.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #2693
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    lbj666 wrote: »
    They started doing the expected uturn on it last night.
    I've no problem with them telling lies at the beginning to ensure ppe was there for Frontline staff.
    I heard the most outrageous lie on BBC breakfast this morning by a minister . He was asked about masks and the efficacy of wearing them. He answered " We have been advised that there is no benefit in a healthy person wearing a face mask!!!!!" I was under the impression that people in the community with the virus who are asymptomatic pose a large risk for spreading the virus.:rolleyes:

    By this stage we all know that the health care workers on the front line are having difficulty protecting themselves and their patients due to lack of PPE. Why cant he just say that instead of lying and treating people like idiots. By doing this he is causing anxiety to increase and more panic to set in.


  • #2694
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I find it remarkable that suggesting an infected person went from Wuhan to New York in November or December is akin to a conspiracy theory.

    What sort of absolute bellend do you have to be to argue that it's impossible it made it from a city of eleven million to a city of nine million.

    Impossible. You're a conspiracy theorist if you think it could have happened.

    That is different to suggesting there were widespread outbreaks going unnoticed throughout the western world months ago as several posters are implying. Many countries such as the UK performed thousands of tests for the virus in January and February, these were highly skewed towards both people displaying symptoms of the virus and those who had travelled to hotspots, if the UK for example had widespread infection at least some of these tests would have come back positive, but almost none did until late february and early march.
    There is much stronger proof there were no widespread outbreaks in the west before march than there is proof to the contrary

    https://news.sky.com/story/governments-emergency-committee-called-to-discuss-coronavirus-11916445
    Thousands of people who flew from Wuhan to the UK were tested as far back as January. None of these people tested positive, the number of positives in the UK remained extremely low until the known outbreak in March onwards


  • #2695
    joe_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭joe_99


    V8 Interceptor wrote: »
    So the USA with 2,000 miles of land border and 1.5 million people flying in every day can stop immigration.

    Yet a poster the other day told me it was impossible to close wee Ireland's borders :o

    USA has closed borders. Every entry has a check point. We have an open border with hundreds of entry points unmanned.


  • #2696
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Wibbs wrote: »
    The results as found speak for themselves, no opinion of mine, or yours will change that. Oh and the graphs are their official government ones, posted on wikipedia. Other sources of same are available. Again double our population, landlocked nation, higher living densities; 203 dead for them 769 dead for us. Include the figures for the island of Ireland - which we may as well with no border checks - and that difference is starker again.

    It has been far more about the supply rather than the science. It's been written in black and white since this kicked off, by the WHO, the ECDC, the USCDC, the HSE. Masks are more needed for healthcare workers. The USCDC went further and stated not to buy masks because of their shortage of PPE for healthcare workers. A few authorities there are now suggesting face coverings and homemade masks over proper masks for this reason. The Czechs faced with similar PPE shortages went along with that idea from the start.

    What they did was react very fast, we reacted moderately fast. After that you're comparing apples and mangoes in how it played out. Our review will not refer to any other country, just our own actions.
    As for masks when they tell me to wear one I will. I don't believe we will get to that point and mandatory will not work here. The ECDC position is not definitive at all, it uses "could" and "should" a lot. I think the USCDC is Trump leaning on them for ways to get the economy open again.


  • #2697
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    growleaves wrote: »
    From now on, I'm going with 'void of essence'.

    I'm going with essentialless.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Indeed, the Schrodinger's mask position; masks are at the same time highly effective risk reducers in one setting, highly ineffective risk reducers in another.

    Ohh, that sounds cool! Where can I get/not get one? All my friends will be so envious!! :pac:

    (I'm most definitely pro-masks, anyway)


  • #2698
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Indeed, the Schrodinger's mask position; masks are at the same time highly effective risk reducers in one setting, highly ineffective risk reducers in another.

    They have already stated that if someone in the home is sick, or caring for someone who is sick masks are a risk reducer and should be utilised, yet we know that asymptomatic and highly infectious people are common with this virus, but again masks magically lose their effectiveness outside clinical settings and the home of sick people.
    For certain circumstances yes, we do know that but the effectiveness outside of that is what is deemed questionable.


  • #2699
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Hrududu wrote: »
    That's great. Not sure why anyone cares. Nobody's spreading infections sitting in their cars waiting.

    until someone in the takeaway tests postive but hopefully not.


  • #2700
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    is_that_so wrote: »
    For certain circumstances yes, we do know that but the effectiveness outside of that is what is deemed questionable.

    Right, there's no proof that they're effective, you say. There's no proof they aren't, either. So why not err on the side of caution?


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  • #2701
    poppers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 677 ✭✭✭poppers


    speckle wrote: »
    until someone in the takeaway tests postive but hopefully not.


    But you could say the same about any supermarket/petrol station that open,


This discussion has been closed.
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