Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 23-04-2020 07:35AM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

They clearly said licences would not be granted for >5000. They couldn't say <5000 would not be licenced as they don't ever need licencing any way. Blame the journalist, because the statement made it clear that no mass gatherings were likely.

But you seem determined to be outraged, so have at it.

I'm not outraged - just again frustrated with the poor level of communication from our government.

My point is why bother mentioning that exact figure at all? Just keep it straight forward, and say there will be no concerts or large sporting events going ahead this summer? Simple.

It's obviously government speak, but that's not the best way to communicate with the general public. You're just putting a number in everyone's head. Whether you intended to or not, is irrelevant...

People know that restrictions are going to be relaxed at some point... and now our government has put that figure of an upper limit of 5,000 people in everyone's head. Which is really dumb... because we're not going to even be capable of gatherings of 500 people by the end of the summer, never mind 5,000...

You can say it should be obvious, and make fun of people for not engaging the brain... but I personally know people who have been confused by that unclear statement. And they're not idiots either btw. They think our government is aiming for gatherings under that threshold by the end of the summer... because that's exactly how it reads to someone who is not actively engaged in every bit of info coming out on a daily basis.

bennyl10 · 23-04-2020 07:45AM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But even if we only include hospital deaths from the virus, and exclude nursing & care homes... Ireland is still in the top 15 worst affected countries in europe.

Does anyone actually have a list of nations that are reporting covid deaths using the exact same criteria as Ireland (or very similar) ??

And if so, where do we rank on that particular list? That's the WHO criteria, right? So does the WHO compile a list based on their standards?

Waters are being deliberately muddied, by people who have an agenda and don't want our country being compared to anyone else... because they know damn well, it will shine an unflattering light on our governments sloppy handling of this!

Sloppy handling is, quite frankly. BS.

They followed health advise. What were they meant to do, go off on their own?

We couldn’t have followed the same route as Aus and NZ, despite what being seem to be enamoured with. We have a much denser population, and also have a land border with another country, which we couldn’t close due tithe CTA and the fact that the EU exists!

Are the nursing homes very sad? Yes. Could a lot have been done to prevent infection there? Not really. Look all over the world, care home environments are where this spreads hugely, simply due to their make up. Short of closing them all down, the mass testing we’re doing now is the best step.
Our death rate. Right now, sure it looks high, but we can’t compare it to anywhere right now, when we’re are counting all deaths from covid symptoms in our reported figures, and many countries are only counting hospital confirmed deaths! Of course ours was going to be higher. We are using a bigger metric!

We are seeing graphs in cases and hispital admissions stable out and drop. This is due to the governments imposed restrictions, and is prove of their working.

Far from a huge fan of FG or Harris, but they followed medical and WHO advice and it seems to be working!

bennyl10 · 23-04-2020 07:47AM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I'm not outraged - just again frustrated with the poor level of communication from our government.

My point is why bother mentioning that exact figure at all? Just keep it straight forward, and say there will be no concerts or large sporting events going ahead this summer? Simple.

It's obviously government speak, but that's not the best way to communicate with the general public. You're just putting a number in everyone's head. Whether you intended to or not, is irrelevant...

People know that restrictions are going to be relaxed at some point... and now our government has put that figure of an upper limit of 5,000 people in everyone's head. Which is really dumb... because we're not going to even be capable of gatherings of 500 people by the end of the summer, never mind 5,000...

You can say it should be obvious, and make fun of people for not engaging the brain... but I personally know people who have been confused by that unclear statement. And they're not idiots either btw. They think our government is aiming for gatherings under that threshold by the end of the summer... because that's exactly how it reads to someone who is not actively engaged in every bit of info coming out on a daily basis.

Events of over 5000 need a licence issued in advance, that councils tend to work through in the early summer. It can’t be a day before thing

That’s why the government uses that figure, to simply tell licensing bodies not to consider it

No events are going ahead tjis summer. 100 or 100,000 attendees

Wibbs · 23-04-2020 07:48AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

None of us expect Harris to be a virologist or to understand the virus and disease it causes in great deal.
But as Minister for Health he should at least understand why its called covid 19. This is the bare minimum qualification required, litterly the entry level requirement.

I'm sick of moronic ministers who rely on experts and advisors to help and spoon feed them and who struggle to understand the basics themselves. I think we've reached a new low in that regard. The guy is out of his depth.

I don't get the shock around politician's gaffes over things like this. Leo is an exception in that he's qualified as a doctor, most politician's main qualification is shaking hands outside GAA matches, with extra courses in reading out other people's speeches and door stopping. They're most qualified to be politicians, the one qualification that should make them exempt from the role.

Achasanai · 23-04-2020 08:07AM

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't get the shock around politician's gaffes over things like this. Leo is an exception in that he's qualified as a doctor, most politician's main qualification is shaking hands outside GAA matches, with extra courses in reading out other people's speeches and door stopping. They're most qualified to be politicians, the one qualification that should make them exempt from the role.

It's a basic understanding of a virus that has been the primary focus of his department for numerous months. We're not expecting an epidemiologist, but you might expect one with a basic understanding of what Covid19 is.

uncleoswald · 23-04-2020 08:10AM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But even if we only include hospital deaths from the virus, and exclude nursing & care homes... Ireland is still in the top 15 worst affected countries in europe.

Does anyone actually have a list of nations that are reporting covid deaths using the exact same criteria as Ireland (or very similar) ??

And if so, where do we rank on that particular list? That's the WHO criteria, right? So does the WHO compile a list based on their standards?

Waters are being deliberately muddied, by people who have an agenda and don't want our country being compared to anyone else... because they know damn well, it will shine an unflattering light on our governments sloppy handling of this!

Waters are not been muddled, people are just pointing out the flaws in YOUR very obvious agenda to paint everything about Ireland's response as a disaster. While mistakes were clearly made, by painting everything as negative all of your criticisms just end up sounding like white noise.

15 out of countries in Europe? Covid didn't strike everywhere in Europe, or the world, at the exact same time. For example comparing Italy's response to anywhere else's doesn't make much sense because the rest of the western world reacted to what happened in Italy. That is why the UK came in for such criticism, they made the wrong choices even AFTER the evidence was clear.

Dublin airport is one of the 15 busiest in Europe, we have a massive tourist industry compared to most of eastern Europe, and Dublin is one of the business and tech capitals of Europe. We may be an island but we can't be compared to somewhere like Slovakia, who just wouldn't have seen the number of visitors that Ireland saw in the weeks before the outbreak. By the time Covid 19 was recognised as a serious threat it had already spread through Dublin. Could we have shut down sooner and more effectively? Sure, but we are still been compared negatively to other countries that shut down AFTER we did and whose response could be less thorough because they had the luxury of time and the fact that most travel around Europe stopped.

Simply by been so close to where the new epicentre of the pandemic was, and with such high volumes of movement around western Europe, Ireland was a lot closer to being the next Italy than most of the countries around the world you are trying to negatively compare us to. And it gets us no closer to understanding the right and wrong aspects of our, and other countries, responses.

Gynoid · 23-04-2020 08:11AM

bb12 wrote: »

so we all need to buy a pulse oximeter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html

The Infection That’s Silently Killing Coronavirus Patients
This is what I learned during 10 days of treating Covid pneumonia at Bellevue Hospital.

Good article. Reflects what a NY ICU doctor said a good while ago on a video I watched, think her name was Colleen, that they were seeing the covid lung damage in people who were in ICU for unrelated reasons. Also similar to what Cameron Kyle Sidell and the Italian doctor based in Gottingen say. Cannot remember his name. Giaconni or something. If people are looking for pulse oximeters they better get the finger out, (yep).

Edit Luciano Gattinoni

Seamai · 23-04-2020 08:12AM

zinfandel wrote: »

A friend of a friends great aunt swears chugging down coconut oil will stop it , better get it on your list before the shops run out :rolleyes:

I'd say you might need plenty of toilet paper to hand if you tried that.

tigger123 · 23-04-2020 08:15AM

Anyone know what the gist of the Irish Times lead article this morning? Its behind a paywall. It discusses a jaw dropping memo ... ?

stephenjmcd · 23-04-2020 08:22AM

tigger123 wrote: »

Anyone know what the gist of the Irish Times lead article this morning? Its behind a paywall. It discusses a jaw dropping memo ... ?

If it's the same one as the independent then it's that they expect the plan to reopen the country to be divisive.

Not a whole lot of detail in the article really. Unless the Irish times has more detail than independent

Gynoid · 23-04-2020 08:22AM

tigger123 wrote: »

Anyone know what the gist of the Irish Times lead article this morning? Its behind a paywall. It discusses a jaw dropping memo ... ?

I can read it even though I have no account....

A confidential Government memo has warned the next phase of the coronavirus crisis has the potential to be “far more divisive” as the full implications of the pandemic sink in with the public.

The note comes as the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance indicated the Government is to consider extending Covid-19 measures such as the rent freeze and the ban on evictions, but will assess how special welfare payments can be tapered off in the coming months.

In a note sent to the Cabinet from the Department of the Taoiseach this week, Ministers were told that while the initial stage was “both swift and unprecedented, and was experienced by everyone together and in a relatively unified spirit”, this may change as the long-term effects come into play.

“This includes unemployment, reduced income, increased debt, closure of businesses, reduced educational opportunities, restrictions on movement and social interactions, and ultimately the loss of loved ones.”

The note, the tone of which was described as “jaw-dropping” by sources, outlined the challenges ahead, such as the difficulty of opening some sections of the economy and not others, reducing income supports and tightening procedures for those entering the country, as well as opportunities.

Accountability
It also touched on political accountability, in what some were interpreting as concern about a caretaker government dealing with such a crisis.

“The issue of government formation and the role of the Oireachtas is outside the remit of this note. However, given the scale and impact of the decisions that will have to be taken in the coming months, it would be important that measures are put in place to enable proper political debate and public accountability.”

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar suggested on Wednesday afternoon that rent freezes and other temporary actions could be extended if the pandemic continues into June, as experts anticipate.

Earlier, Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe said the Government would consider “tapering and changing” the special €350 pandemic payment when the initial 12-week period runs out in mid-June. There is growing concern in the Department of Finance that the current unprecedented State supports are unsustainable in the medium term

Nonoperational · 23-04-2020 08:24AM

I missed the talk here (if there was any) about Simon Harris thinking that it was covid 19 because it was the 19th coronavirus.

Personally think trying to hammer him with that is mental. For the first few years of my medical training I thought that a certain common abbreviation meant something slightly different to what it actually is. Sometimes your brain just jumps and sticks. Some of the Twitter gloating over it is crazy imo.

Wibbs · 23-04-2020 08:25AM

Gynoid wrote: »

Good article. Reflects what a NY ICU doctor said a good while ago on a video I watched, think her name was Colleen, that they were seeing the covid lung damage in people who were in ICU for unrelated reasons. Also similar to what Cameron Kyle Sidell and the Italian doctor based in Gottingen say. Cannot remember his name. Giaconni or something. If people are looking for pulse oximeters they better get the finger out, (yep).

Edit Luciano Gattinoni

Interesting alright, though the 50% O2 level is mad, they should be in a coma or nearly dead at that level.

Seamai wrote: »

I'd say you might need plenty of toilet paper to hand if you tried that.

And the circle of life panic buying is complete.

is_that_so · 23-04-2020 08:29AM

Gynoid wrote: »

I can read it even though I have no account....

A confidential Government memo has warned the next phase of the coronavirus crisis has the potential to be “far more divisive” as the full implications of the pandemic sink in with the public.

The note comes as the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance indicated the Government is to consider extending Covid-19 measures such as the rent freeze and the ban on evictions, but will assess how special welfare payments can be tapered off in the coming months.

In a note sent to the Cabinet from the Department of the Taoiseach this week, Ministers were told that while the initial stage was “both swift and unprecedented, and was experienced by everyone together and in a relatively unified spirit”, this may change as the long-term effects come into play.

“This includes unemployment, reduced income, increased debt, closure of businesses, reduced educational opportunities, restrictions on movement and social interactions, and ultimately the loss of loved ones.”

The note, the tone of which was described as “jaw-dropping” by sources, outlined the challenges ahead, such as the difficulty of opening some sections of the economy and not others, reducing income supports and tightening procedures for those entering the country, as well as opportunities.

Accountability
It also touched on political accountability, in what some were interpreting as concern about a caretaker government dealing with such a crisis.

“The issue of government formation and the role of the Oireachtas is outside the remit of this note. However, given the scale and impact of the decisions that will have to be taken in the coming months, it would be important that measures are put in place to enable proper political debate and public accountability.”

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar suggested on Wednesday afternoon that rent freezes and other temporary actions could be extended if the pandemic continues into June, as experts anticipate.

Earlier, Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe said the Government would consider “tapering and changing” the special €350 pandemic payment when the initial 12-week period runs out in mid-June. There is growing concern in the Department of Finance that the current unprecedented State supports are unsustainable in the medium term

Memos are just discussion documents and there'd be a lot more noise if it hadn't been raised. It is not that hard to see that in the post-pandemic world we may not be as supportive of government decisions. 2009-2014 is a good benchmark on that.

is_that_so · 23-04-2020 08:32AM

Nonoperational wrote: »

I missed the talk here (if there was any) about Simon Harris thinking that it was covid 19 because it was the 19th coronavirus.

Personally think trying to hammer him with that is mental. For the first few years of my medical training I thought that a certain common abbreviation meant something slightly different to what it actually is. Sometimes your brain just jumps and sticks. Some of the Twitter gloating over it is crazy imo.

He's owned up to being an idiot about it and did so after the briefing. Twitter is a failed primordial soup!

Hrududu · 23-04-2020 08:37AM

Looks like the coronavirus was in the US as early as January: https://www.thejournal.ie/us-coronavirus-spread-january-california-5081499-Apr2020/

silverharp · 23-04-2020 08:40AM

is_that_so wrote: »

He's owned up to being an idiot about it and did so after the briefing. Twitter is a failed primordial soup!

I wouldn't be too harsh on Twitter, its actually performing the function of a collective human brain

23-04-2020 08:41AM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

that was the prequel, Covid SARS

SARS Episode I: The Phantom Menace
SARS Episode II: Attack of the Coronavirus
SARS Episode III: Revenge of the MERS
SARS Episode IV: A New PPE
SARS Episode V: The Covid19 Strikes Back
SARS Episode VI: The Return of the Vaccine

is_that_so · 23-04-2020 08:45AM

nacho libre wrote: »

It's not surprising given his history. He knows how to play the political game very well.

Soon Simon and Leo may not reference being led by the science, i feel they have backed himself into a corner somewhat regarding May 5th.

The science also includes that concept of the cure being worse than the disease and he acknowledged the economic element of it very early on. I think it's a safe corner. Listen to his language and how it's gone from "too early" or in "no position to" or "we need to be sure if we". Look at what the data says tonight from Philip Nolan.

23-04-2020 08:45AM

silverharp wrote: »

I wouldn't be too harsh on Twitter, its actually performing the function of a collective human brain

If thats the case we are regressing to amoebas at an alarming rate

Doctors room ghost · 23-04-2020 08:47AM

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of idiotic fools who live amongst us in society.
2 hours some of them queued up yesterday to buy a bag of sh1te in supermacs drive through.
Sure what else would the gombeens have for doing with themselves.
A picture on cllr eddie hoares Twitter of the gombeen Que.

is_that_so · 23-04-2020 08:48AM

silverharp wrote: »

I wouldn't be too harsh on Twitter, its actually performing the function of a collective human brain

A very low-functioning one fuelled by primitive emotions. Sure there is good and useful stuff there but it's an ever shrinking portion of it and one has to be very very discerning.

23-04-2020 08:55AM

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of idiotic fools who live amongst us in society.
2 hours some of them queued up yesterday to buy a bag of sh1te in supermacs drive through.
Sure what else would the gombeens have for doing with themselves.
A picture on cllr eddie hoares Twitter of the gombeen Que.

Supermacs drive thru is the new Lanzarote

is_that_so · 23-04-2020 08:56AM

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of idiotic fools who live amongst us in society.
2 hours some of them queued up yesterday to buy a bag of sh1te in supermacs drive through.
Sure what else would the gombeens have for doing with themselves.
A picture on cllr eddie hoares Twitter of the gombeen Que.

Seems the queue is your real issue. That bag of excrement buys €40m in Irish food, annually.

Quantum Erasure · 23-04-2020 09:02AM

Achasanai wrote: »

It's a basic understanding of a virus that has been the primary focus of his department for numerous months. We're not expecting an epidemiologist, but you might expect one with a basic understanding of what Covid19 is.

what is Covid19?

silverharp · 23-04-2020 09:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If thats the case we are regressing to amoebas at an alarming rate

reflects humanity, best and worst. but it has sped up good ideas being able to get traction

Longing · 23-04-2020 09:08AM

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1253233130342932481

is_that_so · 23-04-2020 09:10AM

silverharp wrote: »

reflects humanity, best and worst. but it has sped up good ideas being able to get traction

That's unlikely to be true as only a very tiny number of actual accounts post. Can you give even one "good" idea? Trending doesn't count as it's largely a whole load of people frothing at the mouth for a day.

Danzy · 23-04-2020 09:12AM

silverharp wrote: »

reflects humanity, best and worst. but it has sped up good ideas being able to get traction

Twitter has become like the Jesuits, a bastion of middle class sanctimony.

Longing · 23-04-2020 09:19AM

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1253235154132381696

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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