The Chinese Big Lie

cryptocurrency · 22-04-2020 07:25PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

Yeah you are right, butt hurt is so mature and not child like at all.

You are deflecting from your beloved CCP trying to pass the blame to Europe, US and anyone but China.

The thread title is "The Chinese big lie" not the awful response of the west.

There is no thread called the awful response of the west and anyone that is even remotely connected I don't see you post on. You are obsessed because you have unsavoury ideas.

Also, I don't and haven't defended the CCP or any government. I am just not obsessed like you about the Chinese.

It's obvious as you don't talk about anything else.

Grab All Association · 22-04-2020 08:36PM

Anti-austerity/PBP CCP defenders are trying to get thread locked. Don't bite. Respond with facts/truth to what they are posting and don't retaliate back. You'll be the one carded and banned from the forum.

22-04-2020 08:38PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

The China bots here know what. They want to turn this into some kind of race thing the sad sacks of you know what.

This is about the CCP always has been but deflect deflect deflect.....

Ahh well, when someone like yourself pushes the China bots angle (which you often do) then, it's easy to see racism being at play. Since it's an attempt to dismiss those who disagree with you... regardless of the manner of that disagreement.

If it was only about the CCP there wouldn't be so many attacks at Chinese people about the wet markets, or traditional behavior, like traditional medicine. You'd see more patience for the needs of Chinese people to develop their nation to the state where such negatives become far less common. There's heaps of comments on this thread which describe Chinese people in rather nasty terms.

There's elements of both going on. There is a focus on the CCP, but there are also a lot of ignorant comments happening too, which is directed at Chinese people in general.

Many posters want to pretend its only about the CCP because it gives them license to promote stereotypes or ignorant generalisations.

Ryu Hayabusa · 22-04-2020 08:59PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

Butt hurt?

Is that an American teenager saying or what.

Butt hurt would be something a child would revert to saying, as the individual is probably not progressed intellectually far enough to have a better vocabulary

BanditLuke · 22-04-2020 09:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh well, when someone like yourself pushes the China bots angle (which you often do) then, it's easy to see racism being at play. Since it's an attempt to dismiss those who disagree with you... regardless of the manner of that disagreement.

If it was only about the CCP there wouldn't be so many attacks at Chinese people about the wet markets, or traditional behavior, like traditional medicine. You'd see more patience for the needs of Chinese people to develop their nation to the state where such negatives become far less common. There's heaps of comments on this thread which describe Chinese people in rather nasty terms.

There's elements of both going on. There is a focus on the CCP, but there are also a lot of ignorant comments happening too, which is directed at Chinese people in general.

Many posters want to pretend its only about the CCP because it gives them license to promote stereotypes or ignorant generalisations.

I challange you to find one post from me that say's anything insulting or derogatory about Chinese people.

Go ahead i await your response.

22-04-2020 09:09PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

I challange you to find one post from me that say's anything insulting or derogatory about Chinese people.

Go ahead i await your response.

I said that you often post about CCP bots. Am I incorrect about that?

[I didn't say that you said anything insulting or derogatory about Chinese people]

BanditLuke · 22-04-2020 09:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I said that you often post about CCP bots. Am I incorrect about that?

[I didn't say that you said anything insulting or derogatory about Chinese people]

You said attacks on Chinese people in your post in response to me.

Please stop attempting to paint me as some sort of racist. I despise the CCP for what they have done to us and yes i find anyone who defends the disaster they have inflicted on the planet a CCP bot.

22-04-2020 09:53PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

You said attacks on Chinese people in your post in response to me.

Please stop attempting to paint me as some sort of racist. I despise the CCP for what they have done to us and yes i find anyone who defends the disaster they have inflicted on the planet a CCP bot.

If I wanted to paint you as a racist, I wouldn't be subtle about it. You have repeatedly dismissed those who object to this ranting about China as being a CCP bot. You're a lot like the leftists who paint everyone who doesn't agree with them as some kind if ism, or ist. A black/white outlook at the situation. Either you agree or you're a CCP bot or CCP defender.

I don't like the CCP. They're a corrupt nasty organisation, and China would be far better without them. However, the removal of the CCP is a fantasy, because they're a cancer with tendrils of influence throughout all of Chinese society and modern culture.

The majority of my posts "defending" the CCP are not about actually defending the CCP, but objecting to the ignorant comments, like seeking punishment (reparations, sanctions, etc) of China, and yet, that's often when you've dropped the CCP bot remark.

I posted the racism comments in regards to your remark about "deflect deflect deflect", and you had raised racism in your own post. "they". Just as I used "they". Not "You".

Again. I am not calling you a racist. I genuinely don't believe that you are.

cryptocurrency · 22-04-2020 11:26PM

Ryu Hayabusa wrote: »

Butt hurt would be something a child would revert to saying, as the individual is probably not progressed intellectually far enough to have a better vocabulary

You could argue the same for those who cry bot. The butt hurt term was about the behaviour and was in line with the language of someone who uses the term bot.

The whole crux of the disagreement on these exchanges isn't about anyone supporting the CCP or not, nobody does. It is about the fact that the monumental efforts being made by some posters to parrot lines from some of the more Jim Corr type media sources by obsessively focusing in if or if not some handful of days window would of made a blind bit of difference...the logical argument, coupled with the weight of evidence of what has unfolded since is clearly No. That's it. It's child like to think that this new virus would have magically been contained by the same people who were disapproving of Chinas heavy-handed approach at the start.

The real story here, one the same people are ignoring, is the gawd awful response and the shambolic actions day in day out over the last 12 weeks since. This whole thread, and all the traction it has gained, has mainly been driven by people so fixated and obsessed about deflecting everything to China that they are refusing to discuss this.....the far bigger story.

This is the problem with kids today. They cannot understand responsibility, how to stand up and be counted and grow a pair. They are the epitome of the behaviour we see everyday at the Whitehouse press conferences. Sulky and child like.

MadYaker · 22-04-2020 11:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless the CCP belief that the virus didn't originate in China is true. It's possible that they were just the first ones to detect this current strain of covid, and that previous deaths in other countries were labeled as something else. There's no absolute evidence that the virus started in China (yet). It's only that it was detected in China.

Personally, considering the numbers of people who feel that they had the virus already (before it spread from Wuhan), it's very possible that there was another strain of the virus in the world. At this stage, anything is possible considering the lack of evidence to show the definite origin of covid (if we ever manage to find out for sure).

I don't think anyone is. There is a difference between being realistic and giving them a free ride. Demanding punishments or that the CCP should be abolished would be unrealistic.

I'm highly doubtful of that, since a large percentage of the population are members of the CCP and gain benefits from their membership. I suspect the majority of people don't care in the slightest... and those that do care, will have their own reasons.. and within those reasons, will be people pushing various agendas.

The vast majority of people couldn't care less about China or the Chinese people... until it directly affects them. At that stage their ignorance or lack of knowledge kicks in, and they're easily swayed by stereotypes/generalisations.

In any case, it's not the vast majority of people criticizing Chinese people, or complaining.... It's a very vocal minority. That's what the internet does. It gives the impression that more people are interested than there really is. Same with the media. They're vocal, and in your face, but they're still a minority, and hardly representative of what most people think.

Theres not a hope in hell that thats the case. As far as I'm aware the americans (despite their many foibles) aren't in the habit of picking wild animals which are resevoirs for all kinds of exotic viruses and turning them into soups. You need to stop drinking the CCP koolaid over there. Start watching some European news for balance.

Have you any experience with chinese medecine over there? I assume you must have some sort of health insurance that gets you access to the foreign run hospitals?

23-04-2020 01:03AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Theres not a hope in hell that thats the case. As far as I'm aware the americans (despite their many foibles) aren't in the habit of picking wild animals which are resevoirs for all kinds of exotic viruses and turning them into soups. You need to stop drinking the CCP koolaid over there. Start watching some European news for balance.

Have you any experience with chinese medecine over there? I assume you must have some sort of health insurance that gets you access to the foreign run hospitals?

First off, I didn't blame the US for anything. I didn't say that it originated from there. I said that it's possible that the virus originated elsewhere, or perhaps it did originate in China, but wasn't detected until much later. There are many reports by people in many countries suggesting that they experienced some of the virus symptoms and got better.

Second, the link with exotic animals is still a theory. Not a definite fact. I've said it before on these threads with regards to other diseases such as Ebola. There are theories of where it comes from and the original cross jump for species, but they're still theories.

Third, I'm in Ireland now. As for health insurance, I have state coverage which comes out of my salary. I also have private international health insurance which has coverage for both Ireland and China. In China, I wouldn't trust the majority of health services, and would only use either the Military hospitals, or the expat private groups.

Fourth, I have plenty of experience of Chinese traditional medicine. I have a shaking disorder which affects the whole of my body, which in western medicine only has two extreme treatments. Both treatments are pretty awful, and not really worth considering. I have used a variety of traditional medicine treatments, most didn't help, some did. Acupuncture is extremely helpful, more so, than any of the treatments I received from western specialists over two decades of "testing". Still, I view the majority of Chinese medicine to be a scam, and not effective. The majority. Some parts though are effective. The problem with their medicine is that there's a lot of scam artists involved, so you need to be careful to find a genuine expert in the field. They're rare.

Fifth, western media, I do pay attention to, however, I don't view it as being remarkably reliable either. Western media are businesses out to make a profit, and have their own agendas to push. Most of them are compromised in some way with links to political groups, or have a "moral" agenda to push. So.. balance? Sure, I compare reports from all sides, and I make up my own mind, by checking them against reports on blogs or smaller sources.

Sixth, As for CCP cool aid. I'm probably more aware of the level of their BS than you are. I read the Chinese media regularly whether I'm here or over there. It pays to know what line the CCP are plugging... and It's interesting.. because I have said many times on this thread, that I don't believe or trust the CCP, and I think they lie all the time, but I'm still somehow some kind of CCP advocate or believer of their propaganda.

I am capable of suggesting that the virus came from elsewhere, or that there was a different strain in Europe/US without it being regurgitated from what the CCP were saying. It is possible. At the moment, we have very little concrete evidence of most things and are relying on theories. Which is what you've just done. You've taken a theory and made it gospel.

2u2me · 23-04-2020 01:20AM

I've always been irked by the idea of 'traditional medicine'. If it was effective it would be incorporated into normal medicine. That's why it remains 'traditional medicine'.

This idea of 'chinese medicine' like it uses a different type of science to everyone else is preposterous. Certainly part of the 'Chinese Big Lie'.

Sure we have Western Media, Chinese Media but the idea of Western/Chinese medicine is ridiculous. There is medicine that works then there is everything else that doesn't work.

archer22 · 23-04-2020 02:44AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh well, when someone like yourself pushes the China bots angle (which you often do) then, it's easy to see racism being at play. Since it's an attempt to dismiss those who disagree with you... regardless of the manner of that disagreement.

If it was only about the CCP there wouldn't be so many attacks at Chinese people about the wet markets, or traditional behavior, like traditional medicine. You'd see more patience for the needs of Chinese people to develop their nation to the state where such negatives become far less common. There's heaps of comments on this thread which describe Chinese people in rather nasty terms.

There's elements of both going on. There is a focus on the CCP, but there are also a lot of ignorant comments happening too, which is directed at Chinese people in general.

Many posters want to pretend its only about the CCP because it gives them license to promote stereotypes or ignorant generalisations.

Klaz, are you actually defending those horrific markets and traditional so called medicines that involve shocking Animal cruelty, are the major factor driving many species to extinction and have now caused a worldwide human disease pandemic.
You do realise there are many in China also who want those practises banned permanently along with the Dog meat trade.
Indeed there are many good people who go to that abomination the Yulan Dog meat festival every year to rescue Dogs by purchasing them..and others who have taken a less legal route by forcing the trucks transporting the Dogs off the road.
Why is it that those people have never been listened to there

We would all be in a better situation now if they had!
Instead of getting endless excuses about "traditions".
Although I will readily admit we are not clean in that regard in Ireland either with our 'sports' of Fox hunting and Hare coursing.

23-04-2020 07:09AM

archer22 wrote: »

Klaz, are you actually defending those horrific markets and traditional so called medicines that involve shocking Animal cruelty,

That's quite a leap in logic to suggest that I am..

I'm not defending wet markets, nor defending Chinese traditional medicine. I've made multiple posts concerning the wet markets and why it's impractical to demand their instant closure... and that's the kind of attitude that has been shown on this thread. That the markets should be closed immediately without any consideration for the realities of the situation.

I've posted the problems with closing wet markets, at least a dozen times on this thread. I'm not going to write it all up again. My objection is not with the closure of wet markets themselves, but the demands that refuse to tolerate that China needs some actual time to develop itself, and why there is such demand for wet markets to exist.

are the major factor driving many species to extinction and have now caused a worldwide human disease pandemic.

Such a strange sentence. In any case, I didn't say anything about the extinction of any species.. dunno why you decided to throw that one at me. And as for causing a worldwide human disease pandemic, I said theories... I didn't say that those venues or practices didn't cause covid.

You do realise there are many in China also who want those practises banned permanently along with the Dog meat trade.

Yes, I do. Two cities in China have already banned to sale of dog meat, in addition to the CCP's introduction of further laws to prevent the trade of any kind of exotic meats. It will continue "underground" or "off the radar" for a while. It's the culture that really needs to change, and that will take time (and for a lot of older gen. to die off)

Why is it that those people have never been listened to there
We would all be in a better situation now if they had!
Instead of getting endless excuses about "traditions".

You answered your own question. Tradition.

Okay. Think of Ireland with relation to the Catholic Church. For decades people on a community level knew that individual priests were involved in pedophilia, conceiving children with their housekeeper, physical abuse of students, etc. The negatives of the Catholic Church were known, but the traditional belief in the power of the Church prevented many from coming forward to stand against them. When my parents were young, mainstream Ireland was a very traditional society, which followed many practices we would be dismissive of today. That tends to happen in poorer countries.

China's wealth is not distributed equally (geographically), and the opening up in 1978 didn't suddenly caused instant success everywhere. The success of the Chinese economy only really affects the main cities, and large parts of China are still very poor, and by default, very traditional. The poor from the countryside move to the cities to find work, remain mostly poor, and keep to the traditions because it's cheaper that way. And the rich do what the rich do... they play their own game.

And no. I'm not defending it. I'm pointing out why it is that way. The reality is that huge numbers of people in China are extremely poor, and don't have a decent level of education. They're not going to really consider the practical implications of such behavior, any more than a poor person in Ireland 30 years ago, would have done the same.

Although I will readily admit we are not clean in that regard in Ireland either with our 'sports' of Fox hunting and Hare coursing.

Animal cruelty is an abhorrent behavior that happens around the world, with a string of justifications. Fox hunting and hare coursing are on the way out. Given time, they will disappear entirely from Ireland, or enough people will want it gone, that it will be made illegal. Given time.

23-04-2020 07:29AM

2u2me wrote: »

I've always been irked by the idea of 'traditional medicine'. If it was effective it would be incorporated into normal medicine. That's why it remains 'traditional medicine'.

Well, western medicine has it's own problems with traditional thinking. Take Hypnosis for example.. it works. For some people. It's extremely helpful in a wide range of situations but the practice of Hypnosis was/is illegal in many US states. There are a variety of alternative medicines that have successes behind them, but there's no hard science to prove it's reliability, so they're all dismissed as being useless.

Traditional medicine covers a lot of territory. There are some practices within traditional medicine which have value, but the majority is quackery.

This idea of 'chinese medicine' like it uses a different type of science to everyone else is preposterous. Certainly part of the 'Chinese Big Lie'.

Sure it is, but it's a lie that has been indoctrinated into Chinese people for decades. They genuinely believe in it's value.

Sure we have Western Media, Chinese Media but the idea of Western/Chinese medicine is ridiculous. There is medicine that works then there is everything else that doesn't work.

It's not that simple. Western medicine is mass produced. I'll use my "condition" as an example. I started shaking at the age of 11. Nothing had happened to cause the change, but it happened all the same. I went to GPs got a variety of treatments which all failed (but had nasty side-effects with the medicines used). then I started on the long journey of specialists, all of whom were unable to treat my condition. They all pursued the same tests (even though they had the records of previous specialists), and for two decades, I suffered through the experience of drug cocktails that just needed to be fine tuned for my body chemistry.

All of which failed utterly but did damage to my internal organs because of the mixes used. In the end, I gave up on western treatments because they didn't have a clue what to do. Ever had your skin turn purple for three weeks? Ever coughed up blood, or had blood actually seep through your skin? I have. Yay! Ever had weeks of blinding headaches/Migraines? teeth falling out, and other side effects? I've also had my kidneys shut down twice, because of treatment by specialists.... There are a wide range of side effects for the use of drugs... Modern research on my condition simply is too underfunded, not of interest, and so, millions of people like myself are left to suffer. And the "cure" was worse than the condition.

Western medicine works in some cases. In some situations, it's 100% effective, but in many other cases, there's a lot of guessing and experimentation going on. It's not as clear cut as you're suggesting that it is. They have guidelines to follow, but I know a variety of situations where those guidelines made the problems worse than the original condition.. so.. no.. Western medicine plays some of the same propaganda about it's practice as the Chinese medicine. That it's entirely reliable and scientific based.

Oh, and I've had numerous western specialists recommend various alternative medicines to me. Acupuncture I started in Ireland. Same with hypnosis, and the use of herbal supplements, or the use of aromatic oils. i've even had specialists recommend bio-energy to me... which is one of the more bizarre alt medicine ideas.

archer22 · 23-04-2020 09:42AM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's quite a leap in logic to suggest that I am..

I'm not defending wet markets, nor defending Chinese traditional medicine. I've made multiple posts concerning the wet markets and why it's impractical to demand their instant closure... and that's the kind of attitude that has been shown on this thread. That the markets should be closed immediately without any consideration for the realities of the situation.

I've posted the problems with closing wet markets, at least a dozen times on this thread. I'm not going to write it all up again. My objection is not with the closure of wet markets themselves, but the demands that refuse to tolerate that China needs some actual time to develop itself, and why there is such demand for wet markets to exist.

Such a strange sentence. In any case, I didn't say anything about the extinction of any species.. dunno why you decided to throw that one at me. And as for causing a worldwide human disease pandemic, I said theories... I didn't say that those venues or practices didn't cause covid.

Yes, I do. Two cities in China have already banned to sale of dog meat, in addition to the CCP's introduction of further laws to prevent the trade of any kind of exotic meats. It will continue "underground" or "off the radar" for a while. It's the culture that really needs to change, and that will take time (and for a lot of older gen. to die off)

You answered your own question. Tradition.

Okay. Think of Ireland with relation to the Catholic Church. For decades people on a community level knew that individual priests were involved in pedophilia, conceiving children with their housekeeper, physical abuse of students, etc. The negatives of the Catholic Church were known, but the traditional belief in the power of the Church prevented many from coming forward to stand against them. When my parents were young, mainstream Ireland was a very traditional society, which followed many practices we would be dismissive of today. That tends to happen in poorer countries.

China's wealth is not distributed equally (geographically), and the opening up in 1978 didn't suddenly caused instant success everywhere. The success of the Chinese economy only really affects the main cities, and large parts of China are still very poor, and by default, very traditional. The poor from the countryside move to the cities to find work, remain mostly poor, and keep to the traditions because it's cheaper that way. And the rich do what the rich do... they play their own game.

And no. I'm not defending it. I'm pointing out why it is that way. The reality is that huge numbers of people in China are extremely poor, and don't have a decent level of education. They're not going to really consider the practical implications of such behavior, any more than a poor person in Ireland 30 years ago, would have done the same.

Animal cruelty is an abhorrent behavior that happens around the world, with a string of justifications. Fox hunting and hare coursing are on the way out. Given time, they will disappear entirely from Ireland, or enough people will want it gone, that it will be made illegal. Given time.

So what was your reason for eating all this stuff, I see on another thread "unusual things you've eaten" you claim to have eaten Dog,Snake,Crocodile,Shark fin soup, and a host of other stuff, I am sure that wasn't a tradition where you came from.
And sorry but the world can't wait around for some stupid people to see the light and end their traditions.
How many more pandemics do we have to endure while we wait for them!
As for the excuse of "poor people" there are poor people all over the world who don't resort to eating that stuff and causing pandemics.

Anyhow I don't buy this poor people story...these are exotic dishes and fetch a premium price

23-04-2020 10:21AM

archer22 wrote: »

So what was your reason for eating all this stuff, I see on another thread "unusual things you've eaten" you claim to have eaten Dog,Snake,Crocodile,Shark fin soup, and a host of other stuff, I am sure that wasn't a tradition where you came from.

Ignorance mostly. In some cases, I didn't know what they were at the time of eating and found out during/afterward the meal. People like to shock you when you're out eating in an unfamiliar culture, and don't know the language. In other cases, I just didn't know the risks involved with eating those meats.

And sorry but the world can't wait around for some stupid people to see the light and end their traditions.

It's got little choice in the matter. How are you going to force them to change? We are talking about hundreds of millions here. Laws can be brought in, but as long as people want to eat those things, they'll find a way. Changing culture takes time.

You can scream and shout all you like for the need for change... but it's unrealistic to expect the culture and the people involved to quickly change established beliefs.

How many more pandemics do we have to endure while we wait for them!As for the excuse of "poor people" there are poor people all over the world who don't resort to eating that stuff and causing pandemics.

Well, there are heaps of people in Africa, other parts of Asia, and S.America who eat these meats and haven't caused an epidemic yet. Same with the use of wet markets. What's your answer to that?

No doubt you would want them to stop eating such meats, and the closure of wet markets. So.. how are you going to enact change over three continents that affect hundreds of millions of people? Go on then. Throughout this thread, I have seen the demands for change, but no practical/realistic suggestions for how that change would come about quickly. Enlighten me as to how such change should happen.

Anyhow I don't buy this poor people story...these are exotic dishes and fetch a premium price

Dog is a dirt poor meat. As is snake. Or a host of other meats which are susceptible for cross species diseases. They're only exotic to us. Not all the danger comes from endangered or rare species...

As for not buying the poor people story, then it's obvious you've never experienced genuine poverty in a 3rd world nation. You should travel more...

Beechwoodspark · 23-04-2020 10:29AM

On the topic of Chinese “traditional medicine”

It involves horrific treatment of animals - quick example - bears are caged and their bile is bled from them while kept alive - all for some BS medicine.

It also involves hunting to near extinction of wildlife such as the Majestic tiger so that they can grind down their body parts for quack cures.

If ppl are supportive of this cr*p stop beating about the bush and come out and support it clearly so we know where you stand

archer22 · 23-04-2020 10:31AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ignorance mostly. In some cases, I didn't know what they were at the time of eating and found out during/afterward the meal. People like to shock you when you're out eating in an unfamiliar culture, and don't know the language. In other cases, I just didn't know the risks involved with eating those meats.

It's got little choice in the matter. How are you going to force them to change? We are talking about hundreds of millions here. Laws can be brought in, but as long as people want to eat those things, they'll find a way. Changing culture takes time.

You can scream and shout all you like for the need for change... but it's unrealistic to expect the culture and the people involved to quickly change inherent beliefs.

Well, there are heaps of people in Africa, other parts of Asia, and S.America who eat these meats and haven't caused an epidemic yet. Same with the use of wet markets. What's your answer to that?

No doubt you would want them to stop eating such meats, and the closure of wet markets. So.. how are you going to enact change over three continents that affect hundreds of millions of people? Go on then. Throughout this thread, I have seen the demands for change, but no practical/realistic suggestions for how that change would come about quickly. Enlighten me as to how such change should happen.

Dog is a dirt poor meat. As is snake. Or a host of other meats which are susceptible for cross species diseases. They're only exotic to us. Not all the danger comes from endangered or rare species...

As for not buying the poor people story, then it's obvious you've never experienced genuine poverty in a 3rd world nation. You should travel more...

Wow that post takes the biscuit for arrogant self righteousness...says all that needs to be said about you :eek:

23-04-2020 10:46AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

On the topic of Chinese “traditional medicine”

It involves horrific treatment of animals - quick example - bears are caged and their bile is bled from them while kept alive for some medicine.

It also involves hunting to near extinction of wildlife such as the Majestic tiger so that they can grind down their body parts for quack cures.

If ppl are supportive of this cr*p stop beating about the bush and come out and support it clearly so we know where you stand

Western medicine is an umbrella term. As is Chinese traditional medicine. There are plenty of practices within Chinese medicine that have no relationship with animals. A large amount is still quackery, but not all of it is.

Where do I stand? I feel that most of it is rubbish. I value the acupuncture sessions(which is considered Chinese Medicine), I receive which have given me far better results than everything else I've had. I'm not interested in completely labeling the entire area of traditional medicine as being ****.

23-04-2020 10:47AM

archer22 wrote: »

Wow that post takes the biscuit for arrogant self righteousness...says all that needs to be said about you :eek:

Wow. So.. you can't or won't address the points I made, and instead, feel the need to insult me.

I'd say that shows more about you, than it does me. :rolleyes:

how about you just answer this one:

"No doubt you would want them to stop eating such meats, and the closure of wet markets. So.. how are you going to enact change over three continents that affect hundreds of millions of people? Go on then. Throughout this thread, I have seen the demands for change, but no practical/realistic suggestions for how that change would come about quickly. Enlighten me as to how such change should happen."

I'd love to see you actually doing more than making generalisations, or expressing outrage. Lets see you actually provide some details how these changes you demand, are to come about.

archer22 · 23-04-2020 11:03AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow. So.. you can't or won't address the points I made, and instead, feel the need to insult me.

I'd say that shows more about you, than it does me. :rolleyes:

I will address your "points" short and straight forward

Are you seriously suggesting an authoritarian government cannot enforce it's own laws...even when those laws are vital to national security...thats BS

You say eating stuff like that hasn't caused an epidemic in Africa..ever heard of AIDS and Ebola!.
However my point was there are poor people in the rest of the world who don't eat that stuff...the world is bigger than China and Africa.

You don't know the fcuk how much I have travelled or what I have seen..so don't come along arrogantly down talking to me on that subject :rolleyes:

BanditLuke · 23-04-2020 11:07AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

On the topic of Chinese “traditional medicine”

It involves horrific treatment of animals - quick example - bears are caged and their bile is bled from them while kept alive for some medicine.

It also involves hunting to near extinction of wildlife such as the Majestic tiger so that they can grind down their body parts for quack cures.

If ppl are supportive of this cr*p stop beating about the bush and come out and support it clearly so we know where you stand

China bots to aisle 2, i repeat China bots to aisle 2.

23-04-2020 11:20AM

archer22 wrote: »

I will address your "points" short and straight forward

Are you seriously suggesting an authoritarian government cannot enforce it's own laws...even when those laws are vital to national security...thats BS

You say eating stuff like that hasn't caused an epidemic in Africa..ever heard of AIDS and Ebola!.
However my point was there are poor people in the rest of the world who don't eat that stuff...the world is bigger than China and Africa.

You don't know the fcuk how much I have travelled or what I have seen..so don't come along arrogantly down talking to me on that subject :rolleyes:

That's an answer? seriously? So... you won't address my points at all. Right. And you completely avoided the main question. To be expected, really.

As for talking down to you, you're the one dismissing the situation for poor people in 3rd world countries. But enough... until you start actually responding to questions made to you, you're not worth the time to type the posts.

archer22 · 23-04-2020 11:26AM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's an answer? seriously? So... you won't address my points at all. Right. And you completely avoided the main question. To be expected, really.

As for talking down to you, you're the one dismissing the situation for poor people in 3rd world countries. But enough... until you start actually responding to questions made to you, you're not worth the time to type the posts.

And there ya go again!

So sorry oh great one for wasting your valuable time :pac:

23-04-2020 11:28AM

archer22 wrote: »

And there ya go again!

So sorry oh great one for wasting your valuable time :pac:

It's fine. I won't bother dealing with your posts in the future.

archer22 · 23-04-2020 11:30AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's fine. I won't bother dealing with your posts in the future.

aaaah nooooo!...now I'm in tears

cryptocurrency · 23-04-2020 12:06PM

archer22 wrote: »

I will address your "points" short and straight forward

Are you seriously suggesting an authoritarian government cannot enforce it's own laws...even when those laws are vital to national security...thats BS

You say eating stuff like that hasn't caused an epidemic in Africa..ever heard of AIDS and Ebola!.
However my point was there are poor people in the rest of the world who don't eat that stuff...the world is bigger than China and Africa.

You don't know the fcuk how much I have travelled or what I have seen..so don't come along arrogantly down talking to me on that subject :rolleyes:

Aids is interesting from a compensation point of view. If there gonna be claims made the US is gonna have to pay serious money for the incompetence shown with Aids. The pneumonia that floated around the gay community in NY and SF in the 80s was ignored by the US authorities for ages, and they even continued to have a whole international industry selling blood during this time. They concerns about this pneumonia was repeatedly ignored as the blood trade boomed. The numbers globally infected because of this is huge and was effectively a death sentence at the time.

Cheerful Spring2 · 23-04-2020 01:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So, we've moved away from a US first strike to a Chinese first strike?

Was not aimed at you. I was not denying your posts.

Just highlighting you can’t attack China and limit the damage, when they have a submarine fleet that carries nuclear warheads. They will match an attack with a fierce reply.

The current estimate China has 600 to 800 nuclear warheads.

2u2me · 23-04-2020 01:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, western medicine has it's own problems with traditional thinking. Take Hypnosis for example.. it works. For some people. It's extremely helpful in a wide range of situations but the practice of Hypnosis was/is illegal in many US states. There are a variety of alternative medicines that have successes behind them, but there's no hard science to prove it's reliability, so they're all dismissed as being useless.

For some people taking sugar pills '... it works' This is the placebo effect in action; certainly something we could study more. Hence why we have clinical trials. There's nothing western about it, it's empiricism. Any traditional medicine that even vaguely might work is studied in depth. If it works then it becomes a part of medicine. There is nothing Western or Chinese about medicine.
Please can you show me how hypnosis 'works'.

Traditional medicine covers a lot of territory. There are some practices within traditional medicine which have value, but the majority is quackery.

All quackery.

Sure it is, but it's a lie that has been indoctrinated into Chinese people for decades. They genuinely believe in it's value.

Agree with you here.

It's not that simple. Western medicine is mass produced. I'll use my "condition" as an example. I started shaking at the age of 11. Nothing had happened to cause the change, but it happened all the same. I went to GPs got a variety of treatments which all failed (but had nasty side-effects with the medicines used). then I started on the long journey of specialists, all of whom were unable to treat my condition. They all pursued the same tests (even though they had the records of previous specialists), and for two decades, I suffered through the experience of drug cocktails that just needed to be fine tuned for my body chemistry.
All of which failed utterly but did damage to my internal organs because of the mixes used. In the end, I gave up on western treatments because they didn't have a clue what to do. Ever had your skin turn purple for three weeks? Ever coughed up blood, or had blood actually seep through your skin? I have. Yay! Ever had weeks of blinding headaches/Migraines? teeth falling out, and other side effects? I've also had my kidneys shut down twice, because of treatment by specialists.... There are a wide range of side effects for the use of drugs... Modern research on my condition simply is too underfunded, not of interest, and so, millions of people like myself are left to suffer. And the "cure" was worse than the condition.

It sounds like you should write up your story to a journal. It may help other people with your condition also. You see this is how science and medicine works. There was no such thing as "Lou Gehrig's" disease until it was discovered.

I'm not saying western medicine is a bible of information, but rather is constantly updated to achieve the most that it can. If there is a new treatment that works on a condition coming out of China you can bet your ass that treatment will be monetized, hence becoming a part of 'western medicine'. The only things that remain Chinese medicine are the things that don't work.

Western medicine works in some cases. In some situations, it's 100% effective, but in many other cases, there's a lot of guessing and experimentation going on. It's not as clear cut as you're suggesting that it is. They have guidelines to follow, but I know a variety of situations where those guidelines made the problems worse than the original condition.. so.. no.. Western medicine plays some of the same propaganda about it's practice as the Chinese medicine. That it's entirely reliable and scientific based.

You're right here, they are constantly experimenting with things that work although chinese medicine resides almost exclusively in the realm of not science based. There are a few chemicals they extract that are useful, but would be much easier and cheaper and less brutal on animals to get it the 'western' way.

Oh, and I've had numerous western specialists recommend various alternative medicines to me. Acupuncture I started in Ireland. Same with hypnosis, and the use of herbal supplements, or the use of aromatic oils. i've even had specialists recommend bio-energy to me... which is one of the more bizarre alt medicine ideas.

I've had the same. I never went back to see those quacks. Sure homeopathy is still sponsored under the NHS! All of these schemes would give the rational of placebo, I'm sure.

The Chinese Big Lie

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