The Chinese Big Lie

So it seems the chatter coming from the US and the UK in recent days is true. The chinese have been fudging the numbers. There is too much coming out at the moment for this not to be true.
Found this article to be of interest: https://www.the-american-interest.com/2020/03/31/the-chinese-big-lie/

I suppose this then reduces our faith in the WHO as they said China was doing a great job. It also makes containing the virus harder as we don't really know how effective the chine containment was if they are messing with the data.

I tended to believe this was a conspiracy theory but have come to believe that today that the chinese having been messing with the infected/deaths number.

What do my esteemed boardsies think?

Marsden35

You'd have to have been lobotomised to believe the Chinese or Iranian figures.

China has lied every single step of the way and is now using its massive propaganda apparatus to not only appear like the saviours, but to make money from the disaster they lied about. You'll easily spot the CCP agents on forums like this and on Twitter.

And I tell you something, the CCP doesn't feel one iota of guilt, remorse or shame.

Mass casualties to the CCP are water off a duck's back. Bearing in mind Chinese rulers have murdered untold millions without blinking an eye.

Power, dominance and preserving the ruling system are all that matter to the CCP. At any cost.

YouSavedMyLife

After Korea started to shoot up in cases it was obvious the CCP were not telling the whole truth and the spread in Europe simply re-enforced this. Hubei alone has the same population as Italy, not to mention the virus was covered up by local officials for close to 2 weeks before they began to try to tackle it. All this by the way during Chinese New Year where more people travel around the country than any other time of the year. It's the perfect storm

Yakult

Never believe the Chinese imo.

Wish we could just North Korea them. As in restricted travel to and from China. Lock them in and lock the world out.

Marsden35

Oh and the bull**** they fed the WHO who swallowed everything the CCP told them and then regurgitated the bull**** to the rest of the world.

WHO = Chinese megaphone.

Marsden35

https://twitter.com/business/status/1245370023952203786?s=20



No surprise to see George Galloway shilling for the CCP.

TheValeyard

Sure no one except its international mouthpiece (WHO) believes them

banie01

The Chinese showed the WHO exactly what they wanted the WHO to see.

Control the information flow and they control the early narratives.
That leaves everyone else struggling with an R0 and Morbidity in excess of the Wuhan number, appearing either incompetent or ineffective.
Whilst the Chinese appear to be managing well and appear to the world as a "leader".
All while the rest of the world are struggling to contain what is happening.

China are banking a lot of soft power, and even more foreign cash on the back of this.

The mobile phone subscriber number drop in 1st QTR in China points to a fairly extreme event.

Be it people were rounded up and sent for re-education?
Or there was a drop in subscribers for some reason?

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Marsden35 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/business/status/1245370023952203786?s=20



No surprise to see George Galloway shilling for the CCP.

Big shock, intelligence services of a country who is having a trade war with China releases negative info. The same service who wrongly declared Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

_Brian

China is a strange place in a global sense.

There is so much to love about it. The people are friendly the food is mostly amazing the culture is interesting and the countryside can be stunning. Other than party officials I’ve not met one unfriendly person there on my few visits.

The government is such a dominant force it’s hard to comprehend it’s strength and ability to rule with an iron fist. But it’s not just the party that’s bad at management. Local government is all messed up too. Look at how they mismanaged the swine flu in pigs to the extent that it decimated the protein food stocks of the whole country and much of the region.

The party have very cleverly crept in to a position where they have major influence over western finance, USA for one is on serious hock that they are unlikely to ever pay out. Other nations too but to lesser extents.

DeVore

TheValeyard wrote: »

Sure no one except its international mouthpiece (WHO) believes them

Ok so I dont entirely believe the Chinese numbers but I'm also dubious about the timing of this sort of mass propoganda rush today too, just as the scale of the massive mishandling of the US response becomes clear.

Everyone needs to be careful of "Confirmation Bias" (including myself). If you instantly agree with a piece, which doesnt have solid sources and data, then you need to ask why you arent being a tough on this piece as you would be on one you disagree with.

Marsden35

Ramona Full Tuber wrote: »

Big shock, intelligence services of a country who is having a trade war with China releases negative info. The same service who wrongly declared Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Hi CCP Gazz, other intelligence agencies also believe your handlers in China are lying scumbags.

banie01

DeVore wrote: »

Ok so I dont entirely believe the Chinese numbers but I'm also dubious about the timing of this sort of mass propoganda rush today too, just as the scale of the massive mishandling of the US response becomes clear.

Everyone needs to be careful of "Confirmation Bias" (including myself). If you instantly agree with a piece, which doesnt have solid sources and data, then you need to ask why you arent being a tough on this piece as you would be on one you disagree with.

That the source of the Info is US/UK is something to keep at the forefront when assessing this.

There have been rumblings for 3 months that the numbers were inaccurate but Trump is on a mission to paint the deaths of an expected minimum of 100k Americans as a win for him in his war against the virus.
The virus that up until the 17th of march was in his eyes a flu.

He is pushing a narrative that his mitigation strategy is saving lives.
He can't blame a virus, he can however blame China.

DeVore

DeVore wrote: »

Ok so I dont entirely believe the Chinese numbers but I'm also dubious about the timing of this sort of mass propoganda rush today too, just as the scale of the massive mishandling of the US response becomes clear.

Everyone needs to be careful of "Confirmation Bias" (including myself). If you instantly agree with a piece, which doesnt have solid sources and data, then you need to ask why you arent being a tough on this piece as you would be on one you disagree with.

Second hand but, my friend left the UK on March 11th, she is still in quarantine in Shanghai. No symptoms, but anyone arriving from Europe was given 1 month forced quarantine.

If the US, and even here, if we had quarantines from hotzones like italy things might be different.

Marsden35

banie01 wrote: »

That the source of the Info is US/UK is something to keep at the forefront when assessing this.

There have been rumblings for 3 months that the numbers were inaccurate but Trump is on a mission to paint the deaths of an expected minimum of 100k Americans as a win for him in his war against the virus.
The virus that up until the 17th of march was in his eyes a flu.

He is pushing a narrative that his mitigation strategy is saving lives.
He can't blame a virus, he can however blame China.

The reason you aren't seeing every country go public about this is because sadly they're dependent on the Chinese to make the life saving equipment needed to combat the very virus they're responsible for.

Marsden35

Marsden35 wrote: »

The reason you aren't seeing every country go public about this is because sadly they're dependent on the Chinese to make the life saving equipment needed to combat the very virus they're responsible for.

The Chinese aren't responsible for the virus. It originated there, but it wasn't their fault.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Marsden35 wrote: »

Hi CCP Gazz, other intelligence agencies also believe your handlers in China are lying scumbags.

With your new account and frenzied talk......

Del Griffith

Marsden35 wrote: »

Hi CCP Gazz, other intelligence agencies also believe your handlers in China are lying scumbags.

LOL

Marsden35

Deleted User wrote: »

The Chinese aren't responsible for the virus. It originated there, but it wasn't their fault.

Oh, it's definitely their fault.

It's definitely the fault of a modern country still having medieval food hygiene practices that even most of the 3rd world has overcome.

Despite this happening previously, they still insist on eating animals specifically known to carry diseases that can be transmitted to humans.

It's also definitely their fault that they lied about it and tried to cover it up.

It's also their fault that they're still lying about it.

It's also their fault that they fed false information to the WHO.


But I'm sure your CCP pay cheque is on the way for your valiant defence of them.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Marsden35 wrote: »

Oh, it's definitely their fault.

It's definitely the fault of a modern country still having medieval food hygiene practices that even most of the 3rd world has overcome.

Despite this happening previously, they still insist on eating animals specifically known to carry diseases that can be transmitted to humans.

It's also definitely their fault that they lied about it and tried to cover it up.

It's also their fault that they're still lying about it.

It's also their fault that they fed false information to the WHO.

This guy is blaming China for the Spanish Flu as well
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113001011&postcount=803

But I'm sure your CCP pay cheque is on the way for your valiant defence of them.

Who knew boards was a hotbed of Chinese Communist Party sleeper cells

banie01

I was until recently employed in Telecoms at a fairly high level mainly in Regulatory and Compliance area.

In light of that particular industry experience, articles like this make very interesting reading
https://www.lightreading.com/asia/china-operators-shed-subscribers-in-saturated-mobile-market/d/d-id/757737

Losing subscribers is par for the course in a saturated market.
That mainly results in what's known in the industry as churn.
Subscribers migrate from one provider to another, total market penetration remains fairly constant.

Numbers in a saturated market do not just drop tho.
Where did the subscribers go?
It would be a very interesting thought experiment to see what people think happened those numbers.

Multiple subscribers consolidating all their subs?
Subs being canx?
Subscribers no longer taking service due to death?
Subscribers no longer taking service due to some massive event or intervention?

In a Western market context, this makes zero sense.
In a market where every phone is tied to a state issued ID?
It's even more perplexing, IMO.

_Brian

Marsden35 wrote: »

Oh, it's definitely their fault.

It's definitely the fault of a modern country still having medieval food hygiene practices that even most of the 3rd world has overcome.

Despite this happening previously, they still insist on eating animals specifically known to carry diseases that can be transmitted to humans.

It's also definitely their fault that they lied about it and tried to cover it up.

It's also their fault that they're still lying about it.

It's also their fault that they fed false information to the WHO.


But I'm sure your CCP pay cheque is on the way for your valiant defence of them.

For the majority, China is a third world country. Only a tiny % of the population have a western style lifestyle.

TheValeyard

DeVore wrote: »

Ok so I dont entirely believe the Chinese numbers but I'm also dubious about the timing of this sort of mass propoganda rush today too, just as the scale of the massive mishandling of the US response becomes clear.

Everyone needs to be careful of "Confirmation Bias" (including myself). If you instantly agree with a piece, which doesnt have solid sources and data, then you need to ask why you arent being a tough on this piece as you would be on one you disagree with.

Well the WHO cant even say Taiwan.... Or can it.

banie01

TheValeyard wrote: »

Well the WHO cant even say Taiwan.... Or can it.

I bet auld Bruce went out to Taiwan or 2 on after his technical issues too

Marsden35

_Brian wrote: »

For the majority, China is a third world country. Only a tiny % of the population have a western style lifestyle.

The ruling class are not third world. They have the power to transform China.

They can pick out a dissident out of 1.3 billion people but can't stop people eating civet cat soup? give over.

Oh and most of the potions with exotic and endangered animals are quite expensive and it tends to be the better off that enjoy a bit of Tiger penis for breakfast.

DeVore

DeVore wrote: »

Ok so I dont entirely believe the Chinese numbers but I'm also dubious about the timing of this sort of mass propoganda rush today too, just as the scale of the massive mishandling of the US response becomes clear.

Everyone needs to be careful of "Confirmation Bias" (including myself). If you instantly agree with a piece, which doesnt have solid sources and data, then you need to ask why you arent being a tough on this piece as you would be on one you disagree with.

I just wish we could stop the politicking and get to the bottom of this.

_Brian

Marsden35 wrote: »

The ruling class are not third world. They have the power to transform China.

They can pick out a dissident out of 1.3 billion people but can't stop people eating civet cat soup? give over.

Oh and most of the potions with exotic and endangered animals are quite expensive and it tends to be the better off that enjoy a bit of Tiger penis for breakfast.

It’s a communist dictatorship, improving the lives of citizens isn’t a priority, perhaps not even a goal. Nothin happens if it doesn’t add to gdp

tigerboon

Marsden35 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/business/status/1245370023952203786?s=20



No surprise to see George Galloway shilling for the CCP.

So what's the clasified bit in the classified report?? Fudging numbers is hardly the classified bit considering the whole world suspects it anyway.

_Brian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just wish we could stop the politicking and get to the bottom of this.

Jesus even club football is all politics now, so that’s not going to happen.

Marsden35

tigerboon wrote: »

So what's the clasified bit in the classified report?? Fudging numbers is hardly the classified bit considering the whole world suspects it anyway.

No one wants to make an enemy of China just now.

I expect broad action by countries against China once the pandemic is over. A lot of divesting will be going on.

_Brian

Marsden35 wrote: »

No one wants to make an enemy of China just now.

I expect broad action by countries against China once the pandemic is over. A lot of divesting will be going on.

It would take decades to get local manufacturing to a position that countries would be comfortable treating China harshly.
Raw materials and spare parts for near everything comes out of China. A country that pisses them off will find its manufacturing dead.

I expect it will be motions, strongly worded letters and “bringing it up at meetings.

Marsden35

Marsden35 wrote: »

But I'm sure your CCP pay cheque is on the way for your valiant defence of them.

You're clearly just anti-china. I have no interest in debating something with someone who is biased.

rossie1977

It's irrelevant what the Chinese numbers were.

The US and UK are now trying to pass the blame for their horrible handling of situation between January and mid March.

No the Chinese numbers are not correct but neither are the Italian numbers according to Italian officals. The UK and US still had 2 months to prepare for the worst and they spent that time sprouting bs like 'Democratic hoax', 'its just the flu bro' and herd immunity.

Chinese used every resource available to beat back the disease (there are loads of videos on YouTube showing the heaven and earth they moved) . We in the west think closing school and hairdressers thinking that will have an effect...

_Brian

rossie1977 wrote: »

It's irrelevant what the Chinese numbers were.

The US and UK are now trying to pass the blame for their horrible handling of situation between January and mid March.

No the Chinese numbers are not correct but neither are the Italian numbers according to Italian officals. The UK and US still had 2 months to prepare for the worst and they spent that time sprouting bs like 'Democratic hoax', 'its just the flu bro' and herd immunity.

Chinese used every resource available to beat back the disease (there are loads of videos on YouTube showing the heaven and earth they moved) . We in the west think closing school and hairdressers thinking that will have an effect...

Spot on.
World politics is as much about making the other guy look worse or distracting from your own f-up by making shiit up about others.

TheValeyard

rossie1977 wrote: »

It's irrelevant what the Chinese numbers were.

The US and UK are now trying to pass the blame for their horrible handling of situation between January and mid March.

No the Chinese numbers are not correct but neither are the Italian numbers according to Italian officals. The UK and US still had 2 months to prepare for the worst and they spent that time sprouting bs like 'Democratic hoax', 'its just the flu bro' and herd immunity.

Chinese used every resource available to beat back the disease (there are loads of videos on YouTube showing the heaven and earth they moved) . We in the west think closing school and hairdressers thinking that will have an effect...

I think you're right in what your seeing. Suppose that's the difference of a population living under an authoritarian regime and a western democracy. But hopefully closing schools early, shutting pubs, social distancing, etc, can make a difference that stops this virus from turning us into the next Italy or Spain.

beauf

banie01 wrote: »

I was until recently employed in Telecoms at a fairly high level mainly in Regulatory and Compliance area.

In light of that particular industry experience, articles like this make very interesting reading
https://www.lightreading.com/asia/china-operators-shed-subscribers-in-saturated-mobile-market/d/d-id/757737

Losing subscribers is par for the course in a saturated market.
That mainly results in what's known in the industry as churn.
Subscribers migrate from one provider to another, total market penetration remains fairly constant.

Numbers in a saturated market do not just drop tho.
Where did the subscribers go?
It would be a very interesting thought experiment to see what people think happened those numbers.

Multiple subscribers consolidating all their subs?
Subs being canx?
Subscribers no longer taking service due to death?
Subscribers no longer taking service due to some massive event or intervention?

In a Western market context, this makes zero sense.
In a market where every phone is tied to a state issued ID?
It's even more perplexing, IMO.

Chinese phones often have 2 or even 3 Sims. So I assume is common over there to have 2 or 3 Sims. The assumption being if people aren't working and not traveling to the region's or switched to 5g on a better deal they might have conciliated their costs while in lock down. Who knows. I don't believe the Chinese or the us propaganda either.

But when I see public transport here empty I don't assume the worst either.

_Brian

TheValeyard wrote: »

I think you're right in what your seeing. Suppose that's the difference of a population living under an authoritarian regime and a western democracy. But hopefully closing schools early, shutting pubs, social distancing, etc, can make a difference that stops this virus from turning us into the next Italy or Spain.

Imagine if Italy had the population of China. They essentially did nothing until a 1000 people were dead.

There is also lots of talk among medial personnel that the virus was in Italy back in December and they didn’t recognise it. The worst affected area was seeing unusual pneumonia deaths in December and chalked it up to a “bad flu”.

thebaz

I found this Australian short documentary about how China tried to cover up quite revealing :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEQcvcyzQGE

When this whole mess quietens down a little, China and WHO have serious questions to answer, the carnage this has cause to nearly every society, and could have been avoided if people had acted properly and done ther job correctly.

jmayo

Ramona Full Tuber wrote: »

Big shock, intelligence services of a country who is having a trade war with China releases negative info. The same service who wrongly declared Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

You do know a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Oh and those same intelligence services do manage to get a lot of stuff right.
That would be one of the reasons the world has managed to stop so many would be terrorist attacks over the last number of years.

The reason this is being pushed right now is to try make US and British administrations look somewhat capable.

Deleted User wrote: »

The Chinese aren't responsible for the virus. It originated there, but it wasn't their fault.

Bullshyte, yes they are fooking responsible.

fiveleavesleft

thebaz wrote: »

I found this Australian short documentary about how China tried to cover up quite revealing :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEQcvcyzQGE

When this whole mess quietens down a little, China and WHO have serious questions to answer, the carnage this has cause to nearly every society, and could have been avoided if people had acted properly and done ther job correctly.

I'd be wary of that programme. It has an agenda which is fine but they get so much stuff wrong, it twists a lot of stuff also & what's the deal with the missing doctor? she's been on her social media in recent days & is supposed to be livestreaming tomorrow. Is she missing?

Good Trump impersonation though:D

maestroamado

_Brian wrote: »

For the majority, China is a third world country. Only a tiny % of the population have a western style lifestyle.

This is partly our fault. If our Governments applied the same rules as there is being suggested for Brexit they would have reasonable life conditions or we would not be doing business.
The Western lifestyle you mention are for us greedy wealthy corporate people.
There is a change coming... China will look after only China as we only care about cheap stuff.... consumerism thats us...

_Brian

maestroamado wrote: »

This is partly our fault. If our Governments applied the same rules as there is being suggested for Brexit they would have reasonable life conditions or we would not be doing business.
The Western lifestyle you mention are for us greedy wealthy corporate people.
There is a change coming... China will look after only China as we only care about cheap stuff.... consumerism thats us...

I don’t thinking’s our fault as such. If a different system were in place in China perhaps more people would share in the wealth, have free education and health, but that’s not the way it works.
I think China have worked hard to make themselves indispensable to the west. They make all our products from cheap tat to high end. They have countries like the US in hock with debt. Heck they convinced the U.K. to let them build major infrastructure projects now.

I don’t see us playing hard ball with them any time soon. It will be hand wringing, letter writing and recommendations while striking trade deals to jumpstart western economies after this recession.

Governments would be wise to start building systems to break reliance on China for everything, all your eggs in one basket leaves you depending on whomever carries the basket.

FVP3

Marsden35 wrote: »

.

China has lied every single step of the way and is now using its massive propaganda apparatus to not only appear like the saviours, but to make money from the disaster they lied about. You'll easily spot the CCP agents on forums like this and on Twitter.

And I tell you something, the CCP doesn't feel one iota of guilt, remorse or shame.

Mass casualties to the CCP are water off a duck's back. Bearing in mind Chinese rulers have murdered untold millions without blinking an eye.

Power, dominance and preserving the ruling system are all that matter to the CCP. At any cost.

lol at the CCP propaganda service. The US has the world's biggest propaganda arm and the OP's post is from the AEI, a rabid neo con venture, full of war mongers.

That organisation was one of the major supporters of the Iraq war and every single subsequent genocidal war proposed by the yanks, killing millions in the middle east alone.

Sonics2k

Has it really come down to a pissing contest between which of two countries, both built on absolutely -massive- propaganda machines are the worst for pushing propaganda?

Believe it or not, it's more than possible that China has been lying (obviously) and that Trump has not handled this well and actively denied it being a thing (obviously).

FVP3

TheValeyard wrote: »

Sure no one except its international mouthpiece (WHO) believes them

You people are quite deranged. A non political organisation that is head quartered in Geneva is apparently controlled by China merely because it refuses to bow down to US/UK propaganda on the number cases in China. There's a reason why the US has set its propaganda dogs on the attack - once US numbers climbed above the Chinese numbers it was a huge embarrassment and so the numbers were disputed immediately, mostly based on an argument to incredulity or neo-mccarthyism.

FVP3

Sonics2k wrote: »

Has it really come down to a pissing contest between which of two countries, both built on absolutely -massive- propaganda machines are the worst for pushing propaganda?

Believe it or not, it's more than possible that China has been lying (obviously) and that Trump has not handled this well and actively denied it being a thing (obviously).

Except the evidence for China lying is nonsense. Why wouldn't the lockdown in China work? If the cases in China were not falling where would any lockdown work and why are we doing lockdowns? Wuhan was locked down on Thursday, 23 January.

The supposed evidence is that they "closed the chinemas again". That's exactly what you would do if the cases rose, which they have slightly.

I am sure the Chinese haven't tested everybody, but who has?

BanditLuke

Like i said weeks ago now when all this is said and done China is going to be sent back to the dark ages by the world community lead by the US. They are going to be really sorry they suppressed what was really going on in the early days of this outbreak.

Sonics2k

FVP3 wrote: »

Except the evidence for China lying is nonsense. Why wouldn't the lockdown in China work? If the cases in China were not falling where would any lockdown work and why are we doing lockdowns? Wuhan was locked down on Thursday, 23 January.

The supposed evidence is that they "closed the chinemas again". That's exactly what you would do if the cases rose, which they have slightly.

I am sure the Chinese haven't tested everybody, but who has?

I know two people in China, not excessively far from Wuhan and both within the quarantine zone. Both are straight up saying it's worse than China was admitting to.

Let's also not forget that China has a long, long history of telling some big old lies to avoid looking bad.

FVP3

BanditLuke wrote: »

Like i said weeks ago now when all this is said and done China is going to be sent back to the dark ages by the world community lead by the US. They are going to be really sorry they suppressed what was really going on in the early days of this outbreak.

There's no hope of that. China isn't another few million people whose economy the US genocidalists can bully or bomb, like Iran, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Vietnam, or Cambodia, or Honduras, or Iraq, or Libya, or Syria, or even Russia. And I am sure I have missed out dozens there.

It's the world's second largest economy and sending it back to the "dark ages" would send the world economy back to the dark ages, not least because China owns so much US debt.

FVP3

That said it was a huge mistake for the West to concentrate so much manufacturing power in China, but that itself was driven by American dominated ideologies like neoliberalism and globalisation.

The capitalists wanted cheap labour and now that the chinese are competing on the world market by actually making their own devices ( smartphones etc) the US is crying foul.

FVP3

Sonics2k wrote: »

I know two people in China, not excessively far from Wuhan and both within the quarantine zone. Both are straight up saying it's worse than China was admitting to.

Let's also not forget that China has a long, long history of telling some big old lies to avoid looking bad.

I'll take that anecdote not all that seriously.

Can someone please explain why the severe measures taken by China wouldn't work? And how can they hide all this? Remember the hospitals they built? They are lying empty now.

China may be authoritarian but if these hospitals were full some kind of information would get out. Plenty of smart phones out there.


What is happening here is typical disinformation campaign, and a pretty weak one, even by the standards of the US intelligence outlets.