Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

The Mulk · 21-04-2020 10:32AM

bodhrandude wrote: »

I tried to buy something the other day over the 30 Euro contactless method and the amount has not been raised yet, I thought we were trying to get away from handling cash, I had to input my number to make the sale, was this not supposed to be raised a few weeks ago to a 50 Euro limit.

Certain banks limit the number of contact-less you can do in a row, before you need to enter your pin.
PTSB used to be 3, i'm not sure if it was changed.
Would this be the issue?

Gynoid · 21-04-2020 10:37AM

Onesea wrote: »

Being fit and healthy are not the same thing.

Haha okay...now we are down to nit picking. They are not equivalent, though there is a reasonable enough correlation. Okay, the fire fighters may have these underlying conditions, a mantra repeated as the new voodoo charm that some people think will ward off the plague from themselves. But I reckon that one could assume or at least hope that people who serve to run towards fires are healthy enough. Hopefully we are not deploying too many asthmatics with cardiovascular conditions in those roles.

Wibbs · 21-04-2020 10:39AM

Onesea wrote: »

Dare i ask,why wasnt the world held to house arrest during mers and sars?

Both were localised and contained O, though restrictions were put in place where they were localised and that's what contained them. They also had a couple of vital differences, people were infectious before they were symptomatic and there were very few asymptomatic infected(none found IIRC).

So if you caught the dose you were clearly sick so would seek treatment/could be more avoided/quarantine and there weren't a load of people feeling fine or with very mild symptoms walking about infecting others. Yes they have a far higher fatality rate, but weren't nearly as good at spreading basically.

It's why something like Hollywood's fave ebola is unlikely to ever go pandemic. Unless it went airborne in droplets and had enough asymptomatic carriers. It's too obvious in the sick and is harder to catch. The Covid SARS virus is in that "sweet spot" of transmissability. A dangerous flu virus would be similar, because a third of flu infected people have no symptoms and would be spreading the virus.

tobefrank321 · 21-04-2020 10:39AM

Onesea wrote: »

Dare i ask,why wasnt the world held to house arrest during mers and sars?

They managed to contain it largely in Asia. Early containment is the only way to beat these coronaviruses. If you lose that battle you're really going to struggle after that.

Wibbs · 21-04-2020 10:40AM

Gynoid wrote: »

Hopefully we are not deploying too many asthmatics with cardiovascular conditions in those roles.

Interestingly asthmatics appear to be not of much extra risk if any of Covid19 and this is surprising many in the medical field. Just like the relative lack of smokers actually catching it badly enough to need hospital in the first place.

21-04-2020 10:44AM

Gynoid wrote: »

Haha okay...now we are down to nit picking. They are not equivalent, though there is a reasonable enough correlation. Okay, the fire fighters may have these underlying conditions, a mantra repeated as the new voodoo charm that some people think will ward off the plague from themselves. But I reckon that one could assume or at least hope that people who serve to run towards fires are healthy enough. Hopefully we are not deploying too many asthmatics with cardiovascular conditions in those roles.

Loads of world class athletes are asthmatics, load of people who are relatively fit have diagnosed or undiagnosed hypertension and/or cardiovascular issues in their 40's and 50's, lots of auto-immune conditions out there that most can live a normal healthy, active life with but leave you vulnerable to Covid-19.

caveat emptor · 21-04-2020 10:47AM

seamus wrote: »

Yes. "Nosocomial" specifically refers to the acquisition of an infection by a patient while being treated in hospital. HCW will generally be classed as community transmission, since they won't know exactly where or when they picked up the infection.

There's a good chance they're avoiding using the "hospital-acquired" classification because it might prevent people from seeking necessary treatment in hospitals.

Dr Tony came out and said that HCW were not getting infected in work. Where is this metric being recorded. Lumping them all under "community" for albeit a valid public health reason fails to acknowledge whether the protective measures are adequate.

I personally don't think they are. As our cases grow so to does the number of HCW who get infected. This has been a constant. 1:3 throughout.

For every 4 people infected 1 is a HCW.

I've scanned over this doc and some of the advice seems completely inadequate given what we now know about the virus. Transporting patients. No PPE required if able to maintain 1 metre distance from patient. Seems to pass level of criminal negligence.

Given we have supply issues why not use reusable respirators etc. In wuhan all HCW stayed in hotels so as not tp spread potential infection to families. I think we are letting them down big time. They. can't speak out for fear of being fired. Just as in China incidentally.

https://twitter.com/purviparwani/status/1245818745836077057?s=20

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/guidance/infectionpreventionandcontrolguidance/ppe/Interim%20Guidance%20for%20use%20of%20PPE%20%20COVID%2019%20v1.0%2017_03_20.pdf

Gynoid · 21-04-2020 10:50AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Loads of world class athletes are asthmatics, load of people who are relatively fit have diagnosed or undiagnosed hypertension and/or cardiovascular issues in their 40's and 50's, lots of auto-immune conditions out there that most can live a normal healthy, active life with but leave you vulnerable to Covid-19.

Then there is little reason for people to be taking such comfort from the underlying conditions voodoo charm. From the beginning I have said most of us have some sort of underlying condition of various degrees , human life will do that to a body.

Mic 1972 · 21-04-2020 10:50AM

Gynoid wrote: »

In a similar vein to bus drivers (well ....ish) I see 18 fire fighters in Dublin airport caught the virus, 2 ended up in ICU and one is still there. Fire fighters were drafted in to Dublin airport from Cork to provide emergency cover. For those who repeat about it being the elderly or infirm at risk of a bad dose I presume fire fighters are fairly fit people.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/two-in-icu-as-airport-fire-service-hit-by-wave-of-infections-39144031.html

That's correct, young and healthy get sick very often if they get repeated exposure to the virus, see HSE workers, bus drivers and so on
If community spread picks up again the risks will be higher for everybody

Charles Babbage · 21-04-2020 10:58AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Both were localised and contained O, though restrictions were put in place where they were localised and that's what contained them. They also had a couple of vital differences, people were infectious before they were symptomatic and there were very few asymptomatic infected(none found IIRC).

So if you caught the dose you were clearly sick so would seek treatment/could be more avoided/quarantine and there weren't a load of people feeling fine or with very mild symptoms walking about infecting others. Yes they have a far higher fatality rate, but weren't nearly as good at spreading basically.

It's why something like Hollywood's fave ebola is unlikely to ever go pandemic. Unless it went airborne in droplets and had enough asymptomatic carriers. It's too obvious in the sick and is harder to catch. The Covid SARS virus is in that "sweet spot" of transmissability. A dangerous flu virus would be similar, because a third of flu infected people have no symptoms and would be spreading the virus.

People were infectious with SARS only after they had symptoms. In Singapore, when this came along they deployed their anti SARS methodology, with temperature scanners in buildings and metro stations etc, but they have still ended up on lockdown because people were infectious without any high temperature.

Gynoid · 21-04-2020 10:58AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Interestingly asthmatics appear to be not of much extra risk if any of Covid19 and this is surprising many in the medical field. Just like the relative lack of smokers actually catching it badly enough to need hospital in the first place.

That is good to know given how many asthmatic people we have.

Smoking has long had a paradoxical relationship with disease. For example it is protective against Parkinsons, Alzheimers, certain thyroid problems and I have seen it said that a bit of tobacco toughening of the lungs helps against environmental pollutants. Among other miscellaneous oddities.
Okay I have earphones on so I cannot hear the mob screech at me for making such dastardly suggestions. PS I don't smoke. Unfortunately. It looks like a nice occasional outdoors hobby for a summer evening with a glass of wine.

Quantum Erasure · 21-04-2020 11:00AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Loads of world class athletes are asthmatics,.

Cyclists especially

Wibbs · 21-04-2020 11:03AM

Gynoid wrote: »

Smoking has long had a paradoxical relationship with disease. For example it is protective against Parkinsons, Alzheimers, certain thyroid problems and I have seen it said that a bit of tobacco toughening of the lungs helps against environmental pollutants. Among other miscellaneous oddities.

Ulcerative colitis is another one that smokers rarely get. Fewer mouth ulcers too. There can also be positive effects in conditions like ADHD That said it's the nicotine that appears to be protective in those cases, the method of self administering it is one of the single worst things someone can do for their health with systemic negatives throughout the body.

Wibbs · 21-04-2020 11:03AM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Cyclists especially

I see what you did there...

Mic 1972 · 21-04-2020 11:06AM

Gynoid wrote: »

That is good to know given how many asthmatic people we have.

Smoking has long had a paradoxical relationship with disease. For example it is protective against Parkinsons, Alzheimers, certain thyroid problems and I have seen it said that a bit of tobacco toughening of the lungs helps against environmental pollutants. Among other miscellaneous oddities.
Okay I have earphones on so I cannot hear the mob screech at me for making such dastardly suggestions. PS I don't smoke. Unfortunately. It looks like a nice occasional outdoors hobby for a summer evening with a glass of wine.

Another good reason to pick up pot again :-)

Gynoid · 21-04-2020 11:06AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Ulcerative colitis is another one that smokers rarely get. Fewer mouth ulcers too. There can also be positive effects in conditions like ADHD That said it's the nicotine that appears to be protective in those cases, the method of self administering it is one of the single worst things someone can do for their health with systemic negatives throughout the body.

Oh I know, I know.
You speak with the fervour of an ex smoker

Gynoid · 21-04-2020 11:09AM

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Another good reason to pick up pot again :-)

I wish! Just don't have the tolerance for it at all these many long years. Nothing I liked more after having walked deep into the woods. Ahh well

C'est la vie.

Inquitus · 21-04-2020 11:10AM

UK deaths could be understated by as much as 40%

The total number of deaths from Covid-19 in England and Wales could be more than 40 per cent higher than previously reported , new figures from the Office for National Statistics suggest.

The latest statistics, covering the week until April 10, show there were 3,833 more deaths in the two countries than recorded by NHS England at the same time. It also shows that more than 15 per cent of all deaths involving coronavirus took place outside of hospitals, including care homes, private homes and hospices.

It came amid warnings from health experts that rushing to ease coronavirus restrictions will likely lead to a resurgence of the illness, as the Cabinet remains split over how to ease lockdown measures in the UK .

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-live-latest-updates-cases-lockdown-a4419516.html

Wibbs · 21-04-2020 11:14AM

Gynoid wrote: »

Oh I know, I know.
You speak with the fervour of an ex smoker

Nope, I very foolishly still smoke, but significantly less than I did.

21-04-2020 11:16AM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Cyclists especially

That's a whole other discussion

speckle · 21-04-2020 11:17AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Speaking of specific immune response. This paper from 3 days ago speaks to that. Worth a read. Main thing I read is the viral sepsis aspect and affect on other organs. (not a doctor). Sharing if helpful. From doctors in wuhan, China.

I am probably wrong but does it look like an autoimmune disease on a high, rampage mode in the worst effected people?
(I was going to say an 'autoimmune disease on steroids' but dont want the common phrase mixed up with the medicine.)

Gynoid · 21-04-2020 11:18AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope, I very foolishly still smoke, but significantly less than I did.

May you be lucky and live long.

My dear granny was a world champion smoker who tore the filters off Majors before use and lived to be ancient and ferocious.

jibber5000 · 21-04-2020 11:22AM

speckle wrote: »

I am probably wrong but does it look like an autoimmune disease on a high, rampage mode in the worst effected people?
(I was going to say an 'autoimmune disease on steroids' but dont want the common phrase mixed up with the medicine.)

Effectively you are correct. Day 8-10 of the virus some of the sicker patients get a massive autoimmune response where the body's defence cells attack themselves.

There is a medication being given to those patients that is promising.
Caveat being it is very expensive so only used in certain criteria.

seamus · 21-04-2020 11:27AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

People were infectious with SARS only after they had symptoms. In Singapore, when this came along they deployed their anti SARS methodology, with temperature scanners in buildings and metro stations etc, but they have still ended up on lockdown because people were infectious without any high temperature.

Singapore is a good case study of why everyone is equal in the face of a pandemic.

They were applauded for their strong response which initially managed to keep a lid on case numbers. I recall many pointing at Singapore's graphs as proof that early and complete lockdown is essential.

But not all lockdowns are equal. Singapore, like the UAE, has built its wealth on a huge low-wage migrant population that lives in ten-bed dormitories. When they were all locked down, the virus gained a foothold in the dorms. And now Singapore has lost control of their case numbers, despite the lockdown.

In the same way that this pandemic is teaching us that we can't farm out our production to low-wage economies, we can't import migrants to create a low-wage microeconomy within our own countries either. It will eventually blow up in our faces.

kenmc · 21-04-2020 11:34AM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Are the staff all catching it so?

Who can tell? It's extremely likely that some, perhaps even many, of the staff are asymptomatic and spreading it to all and sundry. Until there's a reliable antibody test it will not be possible to tell who has had and recovered from covid

podgeandrodge · 21-04-2020 11:45AM

kenmc wrote: »

Who can tell? It's extremely likely that some, perhaps even many, of the staff are asymptomatic and spreading it to all and sundry. Until there's a reliable antibody test it will not be possible to tell who has had and recovered from covid

Agreed. But it is equally likely that if supermarkets are a hot bed of contagion, that many staff will be symptomatic and fall ill.

wakka12 · 21-04-2020 11:47AM

kenmc wrote: »

Who can tell? It's extremely likely that some, perhaps even many, of the staff are asymptomatic and spreading it to all and sundry. Until there's a reliable antibody test it will not be possible to tell who has had and recovered from covid

I doubt it ,at least some of the people visiting the supermarket and the staff will fall ill in large numbers if that were the case and some contact tracing/asking patients there whereabouts would very quickly uncover the source if it was such an obvious one

Nonoperational · 21-04-2020 11:50AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Interestingly asthmatics appear to be not of much extra risk if any of Covid19 and this is surprising many in the medical field. Just like the relative lack of smokers actually catching it badly enough to need hospital in the first place.

Would agree with this anecdotally. Otherwise healthy asthmatics don’t appear to be at any greatly increased risk from what we are seeing.

It’s also really astonishing that children are not, for the most part, getting any significant illness from COVID.

jibber5000 wrote: »

Effectively you are correct. Day 8-10 of the virus some of the sicker patients get a massive autoimmune response where the body's defence cells attack themselves.

There is a medication being given to those patients that is promising.
Caveat being it is very expensive so only used in certain criteria.

Again anecdotally but Toc does seem very promising.

Roger_007 · 21-04-2020 11:52AM

Gynoid wrote: »

May you be lucky and live long. My dear granny was a world champion smoker who tore the filters off Majors before use and lived to be ancient and ferocious.

I had a gran-aunt who smoked 20 a day since she was in her early twenties, or so she claimed. She never married and worked until she was 70. She was never in hospital and never had anything worse than an occasional cold. She claimed that ‘the fags‘ as she called them were the only luxury she had in life and no way could any of us persuade her to quit. She never drank a drop of alcohol.
She died suddenly a month short of her 100th birthday.
We were in no doubt that it was ‘the fags’ that killed her.:eek:

Drumpot · 21-04-2020 11:52AM

seamus wrote: »

Singapore is a good case study of why everyone is equal in the face of a pandemic.

They were applauded for their strong response which initially managed to keep a lid on case numbers. I recall many pointing at Singapore's graphs as proof that early and complete lockdown is essential.

But not all lockdowns are equal. Singapore, like the UAE, has built its wealth on a huge low-wage migrant population that lives in ten-bed dormitories. When they were all locked down, the virus gained a foothold in the dorms. And now Singapore has lost control of their case numbers, despite the lockdown.

In the same way that this pandemic is teaching us that we can't farm out our production to low-wage economies, we can't import migrants to create a low-wage microeconomy within our own countries either. It will eventually blow up in our faces.

Agreed.

It’s also a great example of how detached we are from nature and to a degree reality when it comes to natural disasters.

Humans are not in complete control of our environment. We can manipulate it to our will, but when it responds like it has now, we have to adapt. This includes accepting uncertainty.

It’s annoyingly watching a very predictable response from a significant portion of different populations. Some politicizing it, others demanding a return to norm without any regard for the consequences by taking a blissfully ignorant “well I will be ok” approach. I’m sure the vulnerable and Brave healthcare services appreciate this attitude.

In time of crisis you really do get to see the best and worst of humanity.

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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