School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework

Dravokivich · 20-04-2020 09:38AM

noodler wrote: »

It doesn't really sound like you are even trying to cope tbh.

I've no idea why you think a few minutes a day from a blank background in your bedroom will "give away" that you live at home.

Have you video called before? You know there is a mute mic option for when you aren't speaking?

Sorry kids, no lessons as teacher is a bit embarrassed about living from home... I wasn't aware employees had an option not to do their job out of perceived embarrassment.

Have you ever been on a conference call with about 30 people? Those who don't have anything to say, tend to be doing other work.

Forget about trying to point fingers at someone who doesn't even have the facilities to do a video call. But take into account who his attendees are going to be. A kid is not going to sit at a video call for any lenght of time. Let alone a virtual classroom environment. Even the schools that pushed ahead with iPads, have found they needed to reign that in, because the kids didn't respond well to it!

Technology is not the answer to how do we effectively continue our child's education during this. We as parents need better guidance on how to fill that gap.

My son is in Senior Infants, so I've been focused on his reading, writing and maths. I don't need his teacher to do a video call, to talk about reading, writing and maths.

Teach30 · 20-04-2020 09:38AM

noodler wrote: »

It doesn't really sound like you are even trying to cope tbh.

I've no idea why you think a few minutes a day from a blank background in your bedroom will "give away" that you live at home.

Have you video called before? You know there is a mute mic option for when you aren't speaking?

Sorry kids, no lessons as teacher is a bit embarrassed about living from home... I wasn't aware employees had an option not to do their job out of perceived embarrassment.

Yea coping as best I can. You do realise it would take more than a few minutes a day to stream classes.

Why Can’t they cope with email instruction alone? I am doing my job that way.

gnf_ireland · 20-04-2020 09:43AM

pwurple wrote: »

The difficulty is the variance really. My own kids, the younger class the teacher is absolutely brilliant , she does a 15 minute video from her phone every day, reading a story, and asks the kids to do some phonics work. Find things in the house beginning with an S sound for example, and write them down. It's small, simple, the kids enjoy it and it keeps them in a little routine and maintains the teacher relationship.

My older daughter in 3rd class has had absolutely nothing from the same school. Zero emails, no work, no interaction. Just complete radio silence since March. Now, they have Aladdin, they have private FB groups, they have a school website. The PA bought ALL the teachers laptops last year.

I understand people have family commitments, may be looking after people, but even a note to say that would have been appreciated.
We are doing our own thing with her, in the absense of anything else. She practically drinks books, and we've set up a book swap on the street (yes they all get wiped down and stored for a few days in sealed boxes). Lots of time messing about outside. And we do some online stuff, not much. I've set her up with my own work laptop in the evening when I finish and she's doing a little online typing course. RTE and TG4 are on for an hour each day too.

But I know we are the exception in her class. Her friends parents send messages occasionally to a group whatsapp asking has anyone seen any work. People respond no, and talking about how it's a great break for them. When the schools go back, it will be messy to get them all back on track I'd say.

Absolutely agree re variance within the same school. A bit of consistency would be fantastic

@pwurple you might consider setting up google classroom yourself or maybe signing up to something like reading eggs to give something different.

You should also look at scratch programming - it’s designed by MIT for kids and a great introduction to it. Some courses on Udemy if you need a bit of a helping hand. I get my daughter to write the story she wants to build and then we build it together using scratch. She absolutely loves it !!

Dr Turk Turkelton · 20-04-2020 09:46AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd say there's plenty of trades people using their Internet devices to remote work alright!

Are these trades people getting their full wages and allowances as if they were doing their full day's work while being at home?

stinkbomb · 20-04-2020 09:51AM

Its all very well asking for online classes but many homes will have one laptop if they are lucky. That doesn't work with multiple children in different classes as well as parents trying to work from home.

Sending the work out for the week and a bit of engagement via class dojo or equivalent is just fine.

lawred2 · 20-04-2020 09:52AM

Got a circular from the kid's school that they were "starting now" to investigate remote learning solutions..

Not sure what they have been doing up to now. Waiting for the summer probably.

All we've got from the school since it broke off was a list of books to read, and a few urls where we could log in and have a look around. Bit weak to be honest.

I don't want the kids on zoom calls or remote classes really - would be hard to stick rigid to a schedule but I wouldn't mind a little bit of detail once a week on what work they would have been doing that week were they in school. Not really sure why they went into holiday mode.

Certainly not doing "full days" anyway

20-04-2020 09:54AM

gnf_ireland wrote: »

No I don’t think that was a joke. But unlike my job, parents are the child’s primary educators and we are carrying the bulk of the load at the moment. These are unprecedented times and we all need to work together.

But teachers always seem to have a chip on their shoulder about feedback. It’s like no one knows anything about a child’s education but them and their way (despite every teacher being different) is the best. Every employee of every company has performance reviews each year and feedback is always provided and suggestions made about how things could be done differently. There is absolutely no need to be defensive when someone makes a suggestion.

But to be fair, you appear to be doing your best so well done for that. Compared to my senior infants teacher of a weekly email and that’s it - it’s a world apart.

My suggestion on recording came from the fact most senior infants cannot read fluently yet and therefore voice would make a massive difference to them. But hey, what do I know about my child !!

My performance is reviewed by the department and their inspectorate - I had a three hour inspection in my class as part of the whole school evaluation this year - and then by the principal at the end of every year. They are educators who are qualified to do their job and have vast experience in the field.

I take their feedback very seriously and implement what they tell me. I am guessing you would not take kindly to people with absolutely no experience in your field telling you how to do your job.

You are a parent and not a professional educator. There's a difference, despite what many parents believe. While you may have a great insight into your child's learning, why would you think that you have a right to tell a professional you don't know how to improve their performance? I wouldn't dream of doing it to anyone in another profession.

If you have an issue with your child's teacher then contact them directly and explain your grievances. If you are not happy with the teacher's response contact the school.

Overall, I do agree with your point, though, that there should be greater consistency in the approach from schools. I do know that my sister would love to be in daily contact with her class but has been told not to by her principal.

Good luck working with your kid and hopefully we all get back to school as soon as possible. I'm sure there are some teachers out there who are happy with their lot at the moment, but in my experience the vas majority such as myself would do anything to get back to school asap.

lawred2 · 20-04-2020 09:55AM

stinkbomb wrote: »

Its all very well asking for online classes but many homes will have one laptop if they are lucky. That doesn't work with multiple children in different classes as well as parents trying to work from home.

Sending the work out for the week and a bit of engagement via class dojo or equivalent is just fine.

that would be sufficient for us

gnf_ireland · 20-04-2020 09:55AM

Teach30 wrote: »

Yea coping as best I can. You do realise it would take more than a few minutes a day to stream classes.

Why Can’t they cope with email instruction alone? I am doing my job that way.

I am going to be facetious here for a minute

If teaching is as simple as emailing written instructions to students - why do we need teachers. Sure any robot can do that !!

Teaching is much more than sending out written instructions. I really value how teachers interact with the kids each day in school and the relationships they build up with them. The kids absolutely love engaging with the teachers at a personal level. It’s really fantastic to watch. And i accept it is at a primary level.

I fully accept you are going through challenging times and honestly do make sure you take care of yourself. I would question whether engaging in these forums online is the best thing for your mental health right now. Maybe consider avoiding teaching related threads for a few days for a bit of a break. Too many comments getting a little too personal on here. And sorry to hear about your wedding !!

s1ippy · 20-04-2020 10:09AM

stinkbomb wrote: »

Its all very well asking for online classes but many homes will have one laptop if they are lucky. That doesn't work with multiple children in different classes as well as parents trying to work from home.

Sending the work out for the week and a bit of engagement via class dojo or equivalent is just fine.

I actually had a parent ring me just before the mid term and basically fúck me out of it because apparently the list of (entirely optional) work was too much. I had to just go "OK, OK, yeah, no problem" while she went on a 40 minute tirade about how they only have one computer and her child is under pressure. I emphasised a few times that the work is more to keep the kids busy and that I highlight the things they really should be doing each day and she would start yelling at me again that her child was upset that he wasn't getting it done. She basically bullied me down the phone for three quarters of an hour and demanded that I give less work.

I put out a survey and her opinion was largely not shared by the other parents, who understood that the work was optional and were happy that their child be given it as an option. They also said that they were happy when the way the content was delivered. So now I'm in a position where I have to deliver the whole curriculum but one vindictive parent has a huge issue and might try and f me over if I put a foot out of line somehow. That definitely doesn't instil confidence in me about recording videos or doing a live chat. This morning I'm online like I am every evil morning to deal with anything they need and there are no students here, as has happened almost all times after a break. But I'll stick around to respond to messages until break. Oh and there's the parent mentioned emailing me because the work I posted up isn't what she demanded before the break and she wants to control everything.

People hate teachers, even other teachers as is evidenced by this thread. I don't know if it's because they had bad experiences in school themselves, begrudgery that they can't do it or they can't control situations... I personally feel like I'm walking a knife edge at all times in this job. Being attacked by the public, your management, parents and sometimes even students. I'm just getting on with things as best I can. If gmf Ireland has a problem they can fly up my hole

gnf_ireland · 20-04-2020 10:11AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My performance is reviewed by the department and their inspectorate - I had a three hour inspection in my class as part of the whole school evaluation this year - and then by the principal at the end of every year. They are educators who are qualified to do their job and have vast experience in the field.

I take their feedback very seriously and implement what they tell me. I am guessing you would not take kindly to people with absolutely no experience in your field telling you how to do your job.

You are a parent and not a professional educator. There's a difference, despite what many parents believe. While you may have a great insight into your child's learning, why would you think that you have a right to tell a professional you don't know how to improve their performance? I wouldn't dream of doing it to anyone in another profession.

If you have an issue with your child's teacher then contact them directly and explain your grievances. If you are not happy with the teacher's response contact the school.

Overall, I do agree with your point, though, that there should be greater consistency in the approach from schools. I do know that my sister would love to be in daily contact with her class but has been told not to by her principal.

Good luck working with your kid and hopefully we all get back to school as soon as possible. I'm sure there are some teachers out there who are happy with their lot at the moment, but in my experience the vas majority such as myself would do anything to get back to school asap.

You might find this unusual but many people provide feedback on people’s performance - not just their peers. How many times have you been sent surveys asking for your opinion on the service offered by an organisation.

While you may rate their feedback more importantly, wider feedback is part and parcel of most roles these days. It’s called 360 evaluation and looks at all people you interact with and not just your management teams.

But as you say - what do I know. I am just a parent and you are the professional who cannot be questioned in any way.

I am sure everyone would much prefer to get back to work and for things to return to ‘normal’ and let the status quo return - parents and teachers alike. But I am not sure this is going to happen any time soon and I genuinely hope the efforts of those teachers who went above and beyond during this time are rewarded in spades someway

20-04-2020 10:13AM

There is no policies in place to have education operational remotely.
I don't think there ever will be either as there are too many variables at play.
Do all students have broadband and hardware? Do Teachers? What age groups can be expected to maturely take part? Who pays for it if the answers are no to the above.

Schools should stay closed to September, with maybe the exception of Leaving Cert.

Primary school students can be left alone, they'll catch back up next term.

Secondary school students are old enough to know better. They can revise what they've learned this year and read on if they want.

There is no point in teachers dishing out lots of homework just to be seen as doing something.

Dravokivich · 20-04-2020 10:17AM

gnf_ireland wrote: »

You might find this unusual but many people provide feedback on people’s performance - not just their peers. How many times have you been sent surveys asking for your opinion on the service offered by an organisation.

While you may rate their feedback more importantly, wider feedback is part and parcel of most roles these days. It’s called 360 evaluation and looks at all people you interact with and not just your management teams.

But as you say - what do I know. I am just a parent and you are the professional who cannot be questioned in any way.

I am sure everyone would much prefer to get back to work and for things to return to ‘normal’ and let the status quo return - parents and teachers alike. But I am not sure this is going to happen any time soon and I genuinely hope the efforts of those teachers who went above and beyond during this time are rewarded in spades someway

Here's a 360 evaluation for you. It's very weird to see you be so critical of something, in an apparent informed manner, then shrug your shoulders admitting you don't know. You are constantly talking about "simple" technology solutions for an environment that has shown it's hard for students to work. And expecting somehow teachers should be able to just get on with it?

Whatever work it is you do, if a major component of that workflow was to be removed, and you're then told just do it. What do you expect the outcome to be?

Dr Turk Turkelton · 20-04-2020 10:18AM

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

We are seriously impressed with the commitment from the young senior infants teacher here as are all the other parents we've been in contact with.
Tbe 2nd class teacher has really shown her true colours though- stereotypical mid 40's with obviously no interest in the job apart from the paycheck- it's disgusting really.
Again the principal is mid 50's and also very impressive in these times.
Have read through posts from some of the teachers in here as well and a lot seem to be on top if their game and should be applauded for that.

Right I left it until after 10 to give the benefit of the doubt.
School here starts at 9.15 and at 9.10 an email came from senior infants teacher setting out some work and ideas for the week and also going to set up a hangout to do some singing and Irish later in the week. Now I know that there is not much point at that age of engaging with the kids but it shows a genuine interest in them and it's nice for the kids as well to see "teacher".
Not a word from the older girls teacher even after having two weeks off to throw together even a ten minute email outlining something for the week.
It's really such a shame to think that someone could be so uninterested in their job or the kids they are being paid to educate.

20-04-2020 10:19AM

gnf_ireland wrote: »

You might find this unusual but many people provide feedback on people’s performance - not just their peers. How many times have you been sent surveys asking for your opinion on the service offered by an organisation.

While you may rate their feedback more importantly, wider feedback is part and parcel of most roles these days. It’s called 360 evaluation and looks at all people you interact with and not just your management teams.

But as you say - what do I know. I am just a parent and you are the professional who cannot be questioned in any way.

I am sure everyone would much prefer to get back to work and for things to return to ‘normal’ and let the status quo return - parents and teachers alike. But I am not sure this is going to happen any time soon and I genuinely hope the efforts of those teachers who went above and beyond during this time are rewarded in spades someway

We'll leave it at that as we are going down a silly path that has veered off the original point.

Good luck with everything.

JustAThought · 20-04-2020 10:21AM

The indignant self entitlement to a salary paid for little if nothing and the ‘how dare you question me’ by teachers on thus tread is staggering . Lets hope the parents concerned log and make formal complaints to both the schools and the minister and have each teachers and ‘classroom assistant’ performance evaluated.

No doubt contracts can be reevaluated and that salaries can be clawed back if the work of teaching was just being ignored or dismissed as too much effort/ spurious to their personal resistance to effort and their childminding requirements.

gnf_ireland · 20-04-2020 10:24AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

My son is in Senior Infants, so I've been focused on his reading, writing and maths. I don't need his teacher to do a video call, to talk about reading, writing and maths.

I think at this stage for primary schools really need to consider drawing a line on this academic year and closing the schools early and put absolute efforts into ensuring children can go back to school in some meaningful way in August/September.

If this is not possible in the classrooms, have teachers go to the classrooms and have the facilities they need to do the best job they can from there.

While some teachers are clearly doing their best - and fair play to them. But it’s inconsistent at best ... and probably of limited value as they will have to go over the material later anyway. Just let kids be kids and look to other life skills for the next 2 months

YFlyer · 20-04-2020 10:31AM

Teach30 wrote: »

Right and have my mother roaring at me do I want my dinner/am I going to the shop now/will I answer the phone/what am I doing etc etc or their grandchildren running in on top of me - they have NO boundaries. I would actually be mortified for my students to see that living situation.

Lock the door and say you are working.

Mervyn Skidmore · 20-04-2020 10:36AM

touts wrote: »

Not all networks allow this. You aren't allowed theather with a three account. They will cancel your account and charge you if you are caught doing this.

Has that actually ever happened though? I've been running a phone sim in a router for years now without any issue.

gnf_ireland · 20-04-2020 10:49AM

s1ippy wrote: »

People hate teachers, even other teachers as is evidenced by this thread. I don't know if it's because they had bad experiences in school themselves, begrudgery that they can't do it or they can't control situations... I personally feel like I'm walking a knife edge at all times in this job. Being attacked by the public, your management, parents and sometimes even students. I'm just getting on with things as best I can. If gmf Ireland has a problem they can fly up my hole

Just to be 100% clear - I do not hate teachers in any way whatsoever. What I do get frustrated at is the inconsistency in the way this has been addressed. I have said repeatedly on this thread that some teachers have gone above and beyond and thanked them for it.

I am sorry a parent needed to call you and issue a tirade against you. It was completely uncalled for and if I was you I would block the parents number from your phone and report the incident to the school management. There is no excuse for that sort of behaviour - no matter what is going on in their life right now.

And yes, it’s difficult to keep everyone happy. I accept that. But a lot of that does gone to inconsistency.

Believe it or not, teachers are not hated. But they really don’t do themselves any favours at time’s. The fact they often turn on each other shows the lack of unity within the profession

And to all those teachers making a reasonable effort - well done !!

JustAThought · 20-04-2020 10:53AM

they are being paid salary to do so - it is not a volunteer group or charity - some level of quality, quality control by the principles and standard inspection is expected.

Padraig Mor · 20-04-2020 11:02AM

I'm pretty sick as well of hearing that teachers are "doing their best" and "working full days from home". Me bollocks they are. Some no doubt are and should absolutely be applauded but to infer that all or most teachers are doing this is plain bull. It varies by teacher really. I have two kids in primary school - one in 2nd class, one in 5th. The 5th class teacher has been much better - daily work sent and corrected via Edmondo etc and available by email although TBH, I'd prefer to see some interaction especially as it's a Gaelscoil and the kids aren't hearing Irish all day every day. The 2nd class teacher though is ridiculous - she gave them a list of work (essentially page numbers to complete from workbooks) the day the schools shut and at the end of that initial two weeks gave a similar list - that's it, no correcting, interaction, etc. And I know she has access to decent fibre broadband as she lives - quite literally - across the road from me! Right now, at 11am Monday morning, the blinds are still down so guess she's still snoozing or lazing around, has been the same every day since this started.

No-one expects teachers to be on Zoom 9 - 2 or whatever, but some bit of effort would be appreciated.

Jim Root · 20-04-2020 11:02AM

A few teachers really embarrassing themselves on this thread. They shouldn't be getting full pay during this period.

Fair play to those that have adapted.

Jim Root · 20-04-2020 11:04AM

s1ippy wrote: »

I actually had a parent ring me just before the mid term and basically fúck me out of it because apparently the list of (entirely optional) work was too much. I had to just go "OK, OK, yeah, no problem" while she went on a 40 minute tirade about how they only have one computer and her child is under pressure. I emphasised a few times that the work is more to keep the kids busy and that I highlight the things they really should be doing each day and she would start yelling at me again that her child was upset that he wasn't getting it done. She basically bullied me down the phone for three quarters of an hour and demanded that I give less work.

I put out a survey and her opinion was largely not shared by the other parents, who understood that the work was optional and were happy that their child be given it as an option. They also said that they were happy when the way the content was delivered. So now I'm in a position where I have to deliver the whole curriculum but one vindictive parent has a huge issue and might try and f me over if I put a foot out of line somehow. That definitely doesn't instil confidence in me about recording videos or doing a live chat. This morning I'm online like I am every evil morning to deal with anything they need and there are no students here, as has happened almost all times after a break. But I'll stick around to respond to messages until break. Oh and there's the parent mentioned emailing me because the work I posted up isn't what she demanded before the break and she wants to control everything.

People hate teachers, even other teachers as is evidenced by this thread. I don't know if it's because they had bad experiences in school themselves, begrudgery that they can't do it or they can't control situations... I personally feel like I'm walking a knife edge at all times in this job. Being attacked by the public, your management, parents and sometimes even students. I'm just getting on with things as best I can. If gmf Ireland has a problem they can fly up my hole

what you've described here isn't different to most jobs, there's always an annoying customer or two that needs/demands an unrealistic tailored solution. This is not unique to teachers.

lawred2 · 20-04-2020 11:14AM

JustAThought wrote: »

they are being paid salary to do so - it is not a volunteer group or charity - some level of quality, quality control by the principles and standard inspection is expected.

Well the principal of our school sends regular circulars applauding her teachers for all the work they are doing behind the scenes at this time... so she's more than happy with the least possible being done

gnf_ireland · 20-04-2020 11:16AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is no policies in place to have education operational remotely.
I don't think there ever will be either as there are too many variables at play.
Do all students have broadband and hardware? Do Teachers? What age groups can be expected to maturely take part? Who pays for it if the answers are no to the above.

Schools should stay closed to September, with maybe the exception of Leaving Cert.

Primary school students can be left alone, they'll catch back up next term.

Secondary school students are old enough to know better. They can revise what they've learned this year and read on if they want.

There is no point in teachers dishing out lots of homework just to be seen as doing something.

Absolutely agree - let’s stop the charade for primary school classes and close the schools now. Put the efforts into making sure September can be a success - no matter what the situation is by then

But there needs to be a policy in place to support this and what happens if social distancing still needs to be in place in September - or the next time something like this happens (hopefully never but you never know).

banie01 · 20-04-2020 11:22AM

I'm just a bit curious as to something here.
Given the Easter Holiday ran until this morning, I'm genuinely curious as to just how much homework has been lashed out to the OP's kids over the past 2 weeks?

To repeat what others have said, the move to online teaching fora.
The Child Protection Guidelines, GDPR, BoM requirement to sign off on any guidelines all place a limit on how quickly some schools can implement online learning.

I know a lot of secondary schools have implemented MS Office365 solutions and they are "working" but and I say this as a 40y.o mature student currently engaged in remote learning due to the shutdown.
It isn't really conducive to efficient or comfortable learning and that's from someone who would be very I.T literate and probably more motivated than a younger student.

I'm using a bespoke, designed for educational use IT platform and quite honestly its both a PoS and PITA combined!

gnf_ireland · 20-04-2020 11:27AM

JustAThought wrote: »

they are being paid salary to do so - it is not a volunteer group or charity - some level of quality, quality control by the principles and standard inspection is expected.

While I agree, let’s leave salary out of the discussion to avoid the discussion turning totally toxic altogether !!

Teach30 · 20-04-2020 11:32AM

Jim Root wrote: »

A few teachers really embarrassing themselves on this thread. They shouldn't be getting full pay during this period.

Fair play to those that have adapted.

Exactly there will always be those who will do the bare minimum. At the end of all this at least some of us will have a clear conscience. I’ve made a record of the hours I have spent doing work so at least I have that should I be questioned.

gnf_ireland · 20-04-2020 11:34AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Well the principal of our school sends regular circulars applauding her teachers for all the work they are doing behind the scenes at this time... so she's more than happy with the least possible being done

Ah the age old - self praise is no praise.

Let’s see if the schools up their game (in general) this week after the break and there is a bit more consistency applied. But given the reactions on here I don’t except there to be

And to all teachers genuinely making an effort. Any frustration is not directed towards you but your profession at large. Keep up the great work ...

And to those who are maybe not doing their best - maybe consider the long term impacts of your actions - such as public support for the next pay increases after the economy recovers somewhat from this mess. At this stage, I am sure nurses will be much higher up the public support scales !!!

School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework

Comments