School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework

AmberGold

I have three children under 12, none of their schools are taking the opportunity to avail of the latest technology to provide lessons.

Given WhatsApp, Teams and Zoom etc are free this is disappointing as all we seem to have is teachers flinging homework over the wall & lots of it at that.

I appreciate teachers have their own children to look after but an hour or two a day wouldn’t be too much to ask.

Is this unique to the schools my children attend or are our educators missing a trick, I’m thinking about contacting the principal of the school to voice my concern.

cocopops

Unfortunately a lot of schools are between a rock and a hard place due to 1) GDPR regulations, 2) lack of a relevant remote learning policy in place and even if one was drawn up, getting it ratified by the Board of Management, 3) possibly not every teacher having good broadband access and 4) not all schools can afford to provide the hardware needed 5) not wanting to put families under pressure when it’s possible they don’t have suitable broadband/devices either

Black_Knight

cocopops wrote: »

Unfortunately a lot of schools are between a rock and a hard place due to 1) GDPR regulations, 2) lack of a relevant remote learning policy in place and even if one was drawn up, getting it ratified by the Board of Management, 3) possibly not every teacher having good broadband access and 4) not all schools can afford to provide the hardware needed 5) not wanting to put families under pressure when it’s possible they don’t have suitable broadband/devices either

Unfortunately I think a few might be happy to lean into a few of those excuses. Things can be put in place if teachers want to. Yes there's grpr and no remote policy, but for the sake of their students, do now, ask for forgiveness later.
Fair dues to the ones being proactive and making an effort.

Jim_Hodge

I know many teachers are struggling to get work uploaded due to broadband speeds in their homes. Some had been going in to the school to upload work but that is no longer allowed.

Speak Now

Dont forget lots of very poor connectivity around also. Working from home myself and its painfully frustrating and slow.

Speak Now

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

I know many teachers are struggling to get work uploaded due to broadband speeds in their homes. Some had been going in to the school to upload work but that is no longer allowed.

If only we had a national broadband plan!

afatbollix

I asked this around with a few teacher mates as it seems a perfect time to show what technology can do.

Do you have 3 laptops? Since it would be just your luck that each kid's hour with the teacher would be at the same time.

What about kids who do not have a laptop, Maybe the parents need it for there own work.

Same with the teachers, A lot of schools don't give laptops to the staff and its a GDPR issue to use your own one.

Some teachers wouldn't know what to do, We also expect zoom and the lot that its like TV and that the teachers should preform like TV presenters which they are not so it gets very boring after a few minutes. It's not like they are in the room to move them around or discipline them.

Teachers are trying there best but they need to find a simple balance, I know a few who are now making videos for the class each morning, They have set up a uploading website so they can mark work and give back feedback. As well as doing powerpoints lessons and whatnot.

AmberGold

Should have added based in Dublin where 99% have excellent broadband.

niallo27

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

I know many teachers are struggling to get work uploaded due to broadband speeds in their homes. Some had been going in to the school to upload work but that is no longer allowed.

Come on, this cannot be a valid reason. Even hotspotting on your phone in the back arse of no where would get you 5-6 Mbps.

Jurgen Klopp

niallo27 wrote: »

Come on, this cannot be a valid reason. Even hotspotting on your phone in the back arse of no where would get you 5-6 Mbps.

Oh the naivety :pac:

touts

niallo27 wrote: »

Come on, this cannot be a valid reason. Even hotspotting on your phone in the back arse of no where would get you 5-6 Mbps.

Not all networks allow this. You aren't allowed theather with a three account. They will cancel your account and charge you if you are caught doing this.

Tenzor07

I suppose we can overlook the parents who can't afford laptops, iPads, broadband/data sim cards, separate rooms for kids to learn away from younger siblings, or who have to leave their accomodation for most of the day time?

RugbyLad11

touts wrote: »

Not all networks allow this. You aren't allowed theather with a three account. They will cancel your account and charge you if you are caught doing this.

Haha not a chance! I've been using three hotspot on my phone for years and nothign has ever happened.

RoryMac

touts wrote: »

Not all networks allow this. You aren't allowed theather with a three account. They will cancel your account and charge you if you are caught doing this.

I do this all the time on Three

noodler

God all I've been reading is how teachers were doing full days

gnf_ireland

cocopops wrote: »

Unfortunately a lot of schools are between a rock and a hard place due to 1) GDPR regulations, 2) lack of a relevant remote learning policy in place and even if one was drawn up, getting it ratified by the Board of Management, 3) possibly not every teacher having good broadband access and 4) not all schools can afford to provide the hardware needed 5) not wanting to put families under pressure when it’s possible they don’t have suitable broadband/devices either

In my opinion all challenges which can be over come with a bit of initiative. We are all in extra ordinary times and we all are doing things we would prefer not to, rather than hiding behind red tape and formalities. Things can happen if there is a desire to make them work

This may have been the case on 12th March when the schools closed. It should not be the case over a month later.

That said, and I repeated this on another thread earlier, some teachers are going above and beyond but seem to be in the minority (albeit based on chats I have had with people). But to those teachers fair play and keep up the good work. It is appreciated by parents and children alike

thomasdylan

afatbollix wrote: »

Same with the teachers, A lot of schools don't give laptops to the staff and its a GDPR issue to use your own one.

Why would it be a GDPR issue to use your own laptop?

Teach30

I refuse to do this zoom thing with students I feel no way comfortable with it so don’t see why we should be pressurised into it. Currently using my own mobile phone data to upload and download work, my home internet is far too poor to send pictures etc. I’ve run out of data and my bill will be astronomical next month. Who’s going to foot the cost?

I have no laptop and using a phone with a cracked screen. My home circumstance mean it’s not possible to record videos unless you want to hear my elderly parents on the phone in the background or the tv/radio blaring all day. They have zero concept of being quiet.

So who ever here thinks it’s easy for teachers to teach from home I can assure you not everyone has appropriate circumstances.
I would give anything to get back into the classroom. If only for peace from my parents.

I firmly believe I’m doing my best under the circumstances, if I manage to email them
work I’m doing well. I’ll correct it when I get it but it takes hours to download, open, correct and then send replies. I had serious eye strain before the break from looking at phone.

gnf_ireland

Speak Now wrote: »

Dont forget lots of very poor connectivity around also. Working from home myself and its painfully frustrating and slow.

Yes but you still have to do it and make it work - rather than use it as an excuse.

Connectivity is important - I accept that. But solutions need to be found. It’s not like there will be a magic vaccine rolled out globally come September

gnf_ireland

Speak Now wrote: »

If only we had a national broadband plan!

And people will still complain about the cost and whether it’s a good idea or not !

The Bishop Basher

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I suppose we can overlook the parents who can't afford laptops, iPads, broadband/data sim cards, separate rooms for kids to learn away from younger siblings, or who have to leave their accomodation for most of the day time?

The vast majority of kids have internet access in some form or another.

I’m amazed that my youngest daughter (5th year) hasn’t had as much as 1 class on Skype or zoom. Lots of homework being sent but zero interaction.

I spent most of my working day on video calls and can’t understand why teachers aren’t exploring this option.

touts

AmberGold wrote: »

I have three children under 12, none of their schools are taking the opportunity to avail of the latest technology to provide lessons.

Given WhatsApp, Teams and Zoom etc are free this is disappointing as all we seem to have is teachers flinging homework over the wall & lots of it at that.

I appreciate teachers have their own children to look after but an hour or two a day wouldn’t be too much to ask.

Is this unique to the schools my children attend or are our educators missing a trick, I’m thinking about contacting the principal of the school to voice my concern.

It depends very much on the teacher. My son is in primary and gets an message every Monday with his homework for the week and that's the last we hear from the teacher for the week.

At the same time my wife is a secondary School teacher. She records classes each day on PowerPoint and uploaded them to Google classroom in the mornings. In the afternoons Sha holds zoom calls with the classes to answer any questions. Only 5-10 students dial in but that is their issue.

My wife is involved with national associations and says the discussion there is that it is likely that inspectors will look to see what teachers did during the lockdown. Those that make an effort may not be rewarded with pay etc because the unions won't allow it as they mainly protect the lazy (she says most of the ASTI leadership are teachers who couldn't hack it in the classroom and protect their own). But those that sat on their arses and did nothing will find it difficult to get a promotion or a move to another school for several years. All application forms etc for posts and principalships will have to contain an inspectorate report and anyone who did nothing for these weeks will find promotion very difficult to come by.

plodder

cocopops wrote: »

Unfortunately a lot of schools are between a rock and a hard place due to 1) GDPR regulations,

What is the problem with GDPR?

Tenzor07

thomasdylan wrote: »

Why would it be a GDPR issue to use your own laptop?

People generally don't have a clue about GDPR apart from what it stands for, so is easily misinterpreted..

gnf_ireland

afatbollix wrote: »

I asked this around with a few teacher mates as it seems a perfect time to show what technology can do.

Do you have 3 laptops? Since it would be just your luck that each kid's hour with the teacher would be at the same time.

What about kids who do not have a laptop, Maybe the parents need it for there own work.

Same with the teachers, A lot of schools don't give laptops to the staff and its a GDPR issue to use your own one.

Some teachers wouldn't know what to do, We also expect zoom and the lot that its like TV and that the teachers should preform like TV presenters which they are not so it gets very boring after a few minutes. It's not like they are in the room to move them around or discipline them.

Teachers are trying there best but they need to find a simple balance, I know a few who are now making videos for the class each morning, They have set up a uploading website so they can mark work and give back feedback. As well as doing powerpoints lessons and whatnot.

I have to disagree a bit. SOME teachers are trying their best but lots are doing very little. An email once a week is not anyone’s best and is insulting to all the teachers who are trying to say it is

GDPR is an excuse. It’s about consent to use personal data for its intended purpose and not use it for purposes that permission has not been granted for. Not an excuse to hide behind every time someone suggests a bit of innovation

Asking teachers if they are doing their best is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Of course they are doing their best - who is going to say “no we are on a state funded holiday and there is nothing anyone can do about it”.

LaLa2004

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/dublin-gaa-club-apologises-to-parents-after-kids-online-coaching-session-is-zoombombed-with-inappropriate-content-39103093.html

Here's one issue with Zoom, particularly when dealing with those under 18.

Tenzor07

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

The vast majority of kids have internet access in some form or another.
I’m amazed that my youngest daughter (5th year) hasn’t had as much as 1 class on Skype or zoom. Lots of homework being sent but zero interaction.
I spent most of my working day on video calls and can’t understand why teachers aren’t exploring this option.

Like a teacher on this thread has posted, not everyone is in the position to conduct education through technology.

gnf_ireland

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I suppose we can overlook the parents who can't afford laptops, iPads, broadband/data sim cards, separate rooms for kids to learn away from younger siblings, or who have to leave their accomodation for most of the day time?

So no point in trying to help some because all kids have to be treated equally ! How very noble of you :-)

The Bishop Basher

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Like a teacher on this thread has posted, not everyone is in the position to conduct education through technology.

Well they’re going to have to figure it out.

Times have changed for the foreseeable future.

mirrorwall14

I have my two children with me, both under five. I cannot and will not do live video. The 18 month old needs constant supervision because he’s a climbing holy terror and there would be tears. Lots of them.

However I am working every night and weekends prepping and recording lessons for all my class periods as per my timetable. Students submit their work via google classroom and I try to view all of it and correct everything that cannot be recorded for group correction (eg maths, I’ll record me presenting the solutions exactly like it would be in class). I carry my phone around with me supervising my own children and reply as fast as I can to any query coming in from students. Yes I’m using some websites that include self correction but that’s just being realistic because I have nearly 200 students a week and cannot possibly correct every piece of work they do individually.

This is enough in my opinion. Students are almost always seeing/hearing my work for their class as to be honest I’m finding it takes as long to find decent YouTube videos etc taught the way I want it taught as it does to just prep and record it. Students have my email and google classroom if they need to ask me a specific question.

I was absolutely exhausted maintaining this by the Easter break and I would far far prefer to be back in school but it is what it is and this is the best I can do.

The only alternative beyond this would be for me to apply for parental leave. In which case there would be no substitute teacher at all because they can’t be found for love nor money

gnf_ireland

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

The vast majority of kids have internet access in some form or another.

I’m amazed that my youngest daughter (5th year) hasn’t had as much as 1 class on Skype or zoom. Lots of homework being sent but zero interaction.

I spent most of my working day on video calls and can’t understand why teachers aren’t exploring this option.

I am not even suggesting classes over video. I was nearly lynched on another forum earlier for suggesting teachers should try contact students directly and have a 5 minute chat with them. Give some encouragement, ask if they need help at anything in particular etc.

I spend 80% of my day on calls - whether voice or video. Much prefer to do them in person but needs must. Don’t think my boss would accept - sorry I don’t want to. He would say take a 350 euro a week break there until this is resolved - and rightly so

We all need to adapt to our new situation !

Upforthematch

AmberGold wrote: »

Is this unique to the schools my children attend or are our educators missing a trick, I’m thinking about contacting the principal of the school to voice my concern.

Honestly do you not think the principal has enough problems without getting (probably yet another) call from a back seat driver telling them how to run their school?

It's a national crisis and the children are getting homework so they are continuing their learning all considered.

Teaching children via the internet does not equal a company zoom meeting.

And I'm not a teacher by the way. I just think this idea is petty.

Benicetomonty

touts wrote: »

It depends very much on the teacher. My son is in primary and gets an message every Monday with his homework for the week and that's the last we hear from the teacher for the week.

At the same time my wife is a secondary School teacher. She records classes each day on PowerPoint and uploaded them to Google classroom in the mornings. In the afternoons Sha holds zoom calls with the classes to answer any questions. Only 5-10 students dial in but that is their issue.

My wife is involved with national associations and says the discussion there is that it is likely that inspectors will look to see what teachers did during the lockdown. Those that make an effort may not be rewarded with pay etc because the unions won't allow it as they mainly protect the lazy (she says most of the ASTI leadership are teachers who couldn't hack it in the classroom and protect their own). But those that sat on their arses and did nothing will find it difficult to get a promotion or a move to another school for several years. All application forms etc for posts and principalships will have to contain an inspectorate report and anyone who did nothing for these weeks will find promotion very difficult to come by.

That is absolute codswallop. I cant even...

Teach30

No it’s the reality of my situation.

I’ll gladly take any suggestions as how to remedy the situation. If the school opened tomorrow I would willingly stream my teaching from there but I will not invite students into my bedroom - where I work from.

Jucifer

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I suppose we can overlook the parents who can't afford laptops, iPads, broadband/data sim cards, separate rooms for kids to learn away from younger siblings, or who have to leave their accomodation for most of the day time?

That is a problem of course. But should everyone lose out since the technology is available to teach remotely? Maybe we should ensure the children without technology should get access somehow rather than accepting less. Not saying give everyone free laptops but there must be.a solution.

AmberGold

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I suppose we can overlook the parents who can't afford laptops, iPads, broadband/data sim cards, separate rooms for kids to learn away from younger siblings, or who have to leave their accomodation for most of the day time?

Re tech yes you can, in this day and age as rare as unicorns!

BonsaiKitten

Primary teacher here. Zoom have tightened up on their privacy issues and there are a lot of things teachers can put in place to increase security (setting up waiting rooms, meeting can't begin without the teacher, disable participant screen sharing etc). I am using Zoom with my class and we have had no issues.

The biggest problem is that a lot of the primary curriculum just isn't ideal to teach live online. Kids asking questions etc is near impossible so I worry about my less able students getting left behind. It's better than nothing but they'd probably all be as well off or better doing the work off line.

Tenzor07

gnf_ireland wrote: »

I spend 80% of my day on calls - whether voice or video. Much prefer to do them in person but needs must. Don’t think my boss would accept - sorry I don’t want to. He would say take a 350 euro a week break there until this is resolved - and rightly so
We all need to adapt to our new situation !

I'm assuming that your Boss provides you with a laptop/camera/headset and probably screens etc. And you may even have an I.T support desk.
Probably getting an allowance or payment for your internet connectivity also.

Now try and move all that to the school system, how much time and cost will it take to achieve virtual classrooms right now?

Upforthematch

Teach30 wrote: »

No it’s the reality of my situation.

I’ll gladly take any suggestions as how to remedy the situation. If the school opened tomorrow I would willingly stream my teaching from there but I will not invite students into my bedroom - where I work from.

Nor should you be expected to.

People here are totally forgetting that teaching children is totally different type of work to the jobs most people have dealing with other adults.

Tenzor07

Jucifer wrote: »

That is a problem of course. But should everyone lose out since the technology is available to teach remotely? Maybe we should ensure the children without technology should get access somehow rather than accepting less. Not saying give everyone free laptops but there must be.a solution.

All i'm saying is that you're creating vast inequalities to those who were already disadvantaged in the first place..

AmberGold

Upforthematch wrote: »

Honestly do you not think the principal has enough problems without getting (probably yet another) call from a back seat driver telling them how to run their school?

It's a national crisis and the children are getting homework so they are continuing their learning all considered.

Teaching children via the internet does not equal a company zoom meeting.

And I'm not a teacher by the way. I just think this idea is petty.

What problems would a principal have exactly, sure isn’t the school closed and they just had two weeks holiday. Sure isn’t this what we pay their wages for ?

Nothing petty about this, this is the real world, children are missing out and the technology is accessible for all.

gnf_ireland

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I have my two children with me, both under five. I cannot and will not do live video. The 18 month old needs constant supervision because he’s a climbing holy terror and there would be tears. Lots of them.

However I am working every night and weekends prepping and recording lessons for all my class periods as per my timetable. Students submit their work via google classroom and I try to view all of it and correct everything that cannot be recorded for group correction (eg maths, I’ll record me presenting the solutions exactly like it would be in class). I carry my phone around with me supervising my own children and reply as fast as I can to any query coming in from students. Yes I’m using some websites that include self correction but that’s just being realistic because I have nearly 200 students a week and cannot possibly correct every piece of work they do individually.

This is enough in my opinion. Students are almost always seeing/hearing my work for their class as to be honest I’m finding it takes as long to find decent YouTube videos etc taught the way I want it taught as it does to just prep and record it. Students have my email and google classroom if they need to ask me a specific question.

I was absolutely exhausted maintaining this by the Easter break and I would far far prefer to be back in school but it is what it is and this is the best I can do.

The only alternative beyond this would be for me to apply for parental leave. In which case there would be no substitute teacher at all because they can’t be found for love nor money

And well done for the efforts taken by you !

I doubt anyone is asking for live video classes - in most cases parents are just looking for something

In comparison, one of my daughters teachers sent a 2 page email this evening with work for the week. 50% of it to be downloaded from Twinkl. That’s it for the week - we won’t hear from her until next Sunday evening or Monday morning. No accepting work back, no corrections - radio silence for the week.

And from what I hear - this is pretty common across most of the primary schools friends and colleagues children go to. One friend, their school has not been in contact whatsoever since 12th March !!! Absolutely nothing from them at all.

So people getting frustrated is not directed towards those trying - it’s at those not making any reasonable efforts

Teach30

gnf_ireland wrote: »

I am not even suggesting classes over video. I was nearly lynched on another forum earlier for suggesting teachers should try contact students directly and have a 5 minute chat with them. Give some encouragement, ask if they need help at anything in particular etc.

I spend 80% of my day on calls - whether voice or video. Much prefer to do them in person but needs must. Don’t think my boss would accept - sorry I don’t want to. He would say take a 350 euro a week break there until this is resolved - and rightly so

We all need to adapt to our new situation !

I wouldn’t have a 5 minute chat with students in school why would I want to chat with them over zoom? My personality type doesn’t suit “chatting” it’s not something I find easy. I can’t imagine I’m alone in this. In fact I can safely say I’d find chatting one on one very awkward, even if I had the technology for it.

Grand in school if it’s related to a piece of work or giving advice on work but a 5 minute casual conversation with a student is not realistic .

The Bishop Basher

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'm assuming that your Boss provides you with a laptop/camera/headset and probably screens etc. And you may even have an I.T support desk.
Probably getting an allowance or payment for your internet connectivity also.

Now try and move all that to the school system, how much time and cost will it take to achieve virtual classrooms right now?

If all you look for are problems, then all you’ll find are problems.

No one is suggesting video calls are a panacea here but they could be a good solution for many if teachers were willing to try.

sasta le

Doubt Whatsapp would be allowed?

afatbollix

thomasdylan wrote: »

Why would it be a GDPR issue to use your own laptop?

GDPR and children is very serious.

Basically they can't give permission for storage of any of their data not even their names. So for schools or companies who control this (Not the teachers) they only allow the data to be stored on school or company equipment and can be deleted after.

Yes, its a bit crap that something really meant for the googles of the world affects keeping a kids name on a PC but that's what it did.

AmberGold

So far I’ve heard

1 An argument about not streaming a class from a bedroom.

2. Another who wants the school to opened to stream from there.

Let’s face it we all have access to a laptop with a mic and speakers and broadband, beginning to sound like Garda not wanting to adopt the Pulse system.

Enjoy your break as you send out one or two emails a week to your respective classes.

Upforthematch

AmberGold wrote: »

What problems would a principal have exactly, sure isn’t the school closed and they just had two weeks holiday. Sure isn’t this what we pay their wages for ?

Nothing petty about this, this is the real world, children are missing out and the technology is accessible for all.

Ask a principal what their problems are - I just think it's not fair to be adding to them.

Children are missing out - regardless - because they are not in the classroom.

Thankfully the children are not missing out on homework. They have the resources i.e. the books. They have the supervision i.e. you. and they have the deadline i.e. the teacher's email.

From what I can tell, they are missing out the novelty factor of an online class. That's not essential and I don't believe is as 'simple' as you make out.

AmberGold

Upforthematch wrote: »

Ask a principal what their problems are - I just think it's not fair to be adding to them.

Children are missing out - regardless - because they are not in the classroom.

Thankfully the children are not missing out on homework. They have the resources i.e. the books. The have the supervision i.e. you. and they have the deadline i.e. the teacher's email.

From what I can tell, they are missing out the novelty factor of an online class. That's not essential and I don't believe is as 'simple' as you make out.

Whatever.

gnf_ireland

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'm assuming that your Boss provides you with a laptop/camera/headset and probably screens etc. And you may even have an I.T support desk.
Probably getting an allowance or payment for your internet connectivity also.

Now try and move all that to the school system, how much time and cost will it take to achieve virtual classrooms right now?

No actually. As it turns out they don’t. I use my own laptop - although I accept that is pretty rare and absolutely they do not subsidise my internet connection in any way. I need internet to live and the small costs incurred easily offset the commuting costs I am saving

Our school have plenty of laptops and tablets. The parents association purchased ~40 less than 18 months ago for the students to use. Why not utilise them ?

And as I said previously, I don’t think virtual classrooms would work in primary school - but what would work is a level of engagement with the student to see how they are getting on. Something a bit more than a weekly email !!

plodder

afatbollix wrote: »

GDPR and children is very serious.

Why exactly?