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School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework

AmberGold

I have three children under 12, none of their schools are taking the opportunity to avail of the latest technology to provide lessons.

Given WhatsApp, Teams and Zoom etc are free this is disappointing as all we seem to have is teachers flinging homework over the wall & lots of it at that.

I appreciate teachers have their own children to look after but an hour or two a day wouldn’t be too much to ask.

Is this unique to the schools my children attend or are our educators missing a trick, I’m thinking about contacting the principal of the school to voice my concern.

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YFlyer

Teach30 wrote: »

Right and have my mother roaring at me do I want my dinner/am I going to the shop now/will I answer the phone/what am I doing etc etc or their grandchildren running in on top of me - they have NO boundaries. I would actually be mortified for my students to see that living situation.

Lock the door and say you are working.

gnf_ireland

Dravokivich wrote: »

My son is in Senior Infants, so I've been focused on his reading, writing and maths. I don't need his teacher to do a video call, to talk about reading, writing and maths.

I think at this stage for primary schools really need to consider drawing a line on this academic year and closing the schools early and put absolute efforts into ensuring children can go back to school in some meaningful way in August/September.

If this is not possible in the classrooms, have teachers go to the classrooms and have the facilities they need to do the best job they can from there.

While some teachers are clearly doing their best - and fair play to them. But it’s inconsistent at best ... and probably of limited value as they will have to go over the material later anyway. Just let kids be kids and look to other life skills for the next 2 months

JustAThought

The indignant self entitlement to a salary paid for little if nothing and the ‘how dare you question me’ by teachers on thus tread is staggering . Lets hope the parents concerned log and make formal complaints to both the schools and the minister and have each teachers and ‘classroom assistant’ performance evaluated.

No doubt contracts can be reevaluated and that salaries can be clawed back if the work of teaching was just being ignored or dismissed as too much effort/ spurious to their personal resistance to effort and their childminding requirements.

[Deleted User]

gnf_ireland wrote: »

You might find this unusual but many people provide feedback on people’s performance - not just their peers. How many times have you been sent surveys asking for your opinion on the service offered by an organisation.

While you may rate their feedback more importantly, wider feedback is part and parcel of most roles these days. It’s called 360 evaluation and looks at all people you interact with and not just your management teams.

But as you say - what do I know. I am just a parent and you are the professional who cannot be questioned in any way.

I am sure everyone would much prefer to get back to work and for things to return to ‘normal’ and let the status quo return - parents and teachers alike. But I am not sure this is going to happen any time soon and I genuinely hope the efforts of those teachers who went above and beyond during this time are rewarded in spades someway

We'll leave it at that as we are going down a silly path that has veered off the original point.

Good luck with everything.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

We are seriously impressed with the commitment from the young senior infants teacher here as are all the other parents we've been in contact with.
Tbe 2nd class teacher has really shown her true colours though- stereotypical mid 40's with obviously no interest in the job apart from the paycheck- it's disgusting really.
Again the principal is mid 50's and also very impressive in these times.
Have read through posts from some of the teachers in here as well and a lot seem to be on top if their game and should be applauded for that.

Right I left it until after 10 to give the benefit of the doubt.
School here starts at 9.15 and at 9.10 an email came from senior infants teacher setting out some work and ideas for the week and also going to set up a hangout to do some singing and Irish later in the week. Now I know that there is not much point at that age of engaging with the kids but it shows a genuine interest in them and it's nice for the kids as well to see "teacher".
Not a word from the older girls teacher even after having two weeks off to throw together even a ten minute email outlining something for the week.
It's really such a shame to think that someone could be so uninterested in their job or the kids they are being paid to educate.

Dravokivich

gnf_ireland wrote: »

You might find this unusual but many people provide feedback on people’s performance - not just their peers. How many times have you been sent surveys asking for your opinion on the service offered by an organisation.

While you may rate their feedback more importantly, wider feedback is part and parcel of most roles these days. It’s called 360 evaluation and looks at all people you interact with and not just your management teams.

But as you say - what do I know. I am just a parent and you are the professional who cannot be questioned in any way.

I am sure everyone would much prefer to get back to work and for things to return to ‘normal’ and let the status quo return - parents and teachers alike. But I am not sure this is going to happen any time soon and I genuinely hope the efforts of those teachers who went above and beyond during this time are rewarded in spades someway

Here's a 360 evaluation for you. It's very weird to see you be so critical of something, in an apparent informed manner, then shrug your shoulders admitting you don't know. You are constantly talking about "simple" technology solutions for an environment that has shown it's hard for students to work. And expecting somehow teachers should be able to just get on with it?

Whatever work it is you do, if a major component of that workflow was to be removed, and you're then told just do it. What do you expect the outcome to be?

[Deleted User]

There is no policies in place to have education operational remotely.
I don't think there ever will be either as there are too many variables at play.
Do all students have broadband and hardware? Do Teachers? What age groups can be expected to maturely take part? Who pays for it if the answers are no to the above.

Schools should stay closed to September, with maybe the exception of Leaving Cert.

Primary school students can be left alone, they'll catch back up next term.

Secondary school students are old enough to know better. They can revise what they've learned this year and read on if they want.

There is no point in teachers dishing out lots of homework just to be seen as doing something.

gnf_ireland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My performance is reviewed by the department and their inspectorate - I had a three hour inspection in my class as part of the whole school evaluation this year - and then by the principal at the end of every year. They are educators who are qualified to do their job and have vast experience in the field.

I take their feedback very seriously and implement what they tell me. I am guessing you would not take kindly to people with absolutely no experience in your field telling you how to do your job.

You are a parent and not a professional educator. There's a difference, despite what many parents believe. While you may have a great insight into your child's learning, why would you think that you have a right to tell a professional you don't know how to improve their performance? I wouldn't dream of doing it to anyone in another profession.

If you have an issue with your child's teacher then contact them directly and explain your grievances. If you are not happy with the teacher's response contact the school.

Overall, I do agree with your point, though, that there should be greater consistency in the approach from schools. I do know that my sister would love to be in daily contact with her class but has been told not to by her principal.

Good luck working with your kid and hopefully we all get back to school as soon as possible. I'm sure there are some teachers out there who are happy with their lot at the moment, but in my experience the vas majority such as myself would do anything to get back to school asap.

You might find this unusual but many people provide feedback on people’s performance - not just their peers. How many times have you been sent surveys asking for your opinion on the service offered by an organisation.

While you may rate their feedback more importantly, wider feedback is part and parcel of most roles these days. It’s called 360 evaluation and looks at all people you interact with and not just your management teams.

But as you say - what do I know. I am just a parent and you are the professional who cannot be questioned in any way.

I am sure everyone would much prefer to get back to work and for things to return to ‘normal’ and let the status quo return - parents and teachers alike. But I am not sure this is going to happen any time soon and I genuinely hope the efforts of those teachers who went above and beyond during this time are rewarded in spades someway

s1ippy

stinkbomb wrote: »

Its all very well asking for online classes but many homes will have one laptop if they are lucky. That doesn't work with multiple children in different classes as well as parents trying to work from home.

Sending the work out for the week and a bit of engagement via class dojo or equivalent is just fine.

I actually had a parent ring me just before the mid term and basically fúck me out of it because apparently the list of (entirely optional) work was too much. I had to just go "OK, OK, yeah, no problem" while she went on a 40 minute tirade about how they only have one computer and her child is under pressure. I emphasised a few times that the work is more to keep the kids busy and that I highlight the things they really should be doing each day and she would start yelling at me again that her child was upset that he wasn't getting it done. She basically bullied me down the phone for three quarters of an hour and demanded that I give less work.

I put out a survey and her opinion was largely not shared by the other parents, who understood that the work was optional and were happy that their child be given it as an option. They also said that they were happy when the way the content was delivered. So now I'm in a position where I have to deliver the whole curriculum but one vindictive parent has a huge issue and might try and f me over if I put a foot out of line somehow. That definitely doesn't instil confidence in me about recording videos or doing a live chat. This morning I'm online like I am every evil morning to deal with anything they need and there are no students here, as has happened almost all times after a break. But I'll stick around to respond to messages until break. Oh and there's the parent mentioned emailing me because the work I posted up isn't what she demanded before the break and she wants to control everything.

People hate teachers, even other teachers as is evidenced by this thread. I don't know if it's because they had bad experiences in school themselves, begrudgery that they can't do it or they can't control situations... I personally feel like I'm walking a knife edge at all times in this job. Being attacked by the public, your management, parents and sometimes even students. I'm just getting on with things as best I can. If gmf Ireland has a problem they can fly up my hole

gnf_ireland

Teach30 wrote: »

Yea coping as best I can. You do realise it would take more than a few minutes a day to stream classes.

Why Can’t they cope with email instruction alone? I am doing my job that way.

I am going to be facetious here for a minute

If teaching is as simple as emailing written instructions to students - why do we need teachers. Sure any robot can do that !!

Teaching is much more than sending out written instructions. I really value how teachers interact with the kids each day in school and the relationships they build up with them. The kids absolutely love engaging with the teachers at a personal level. It’s really fantastic to watch. And i accept it is at a primary level.

I fully accept you are going through challenging times and honestly do make sure you take care of yourself. I would question whether engaging in these forums online is the best thing for your mental health right now. Maybe consider avoiding teaching related threads for a few days for a bit of a break. Too many comments getting a little too personal on here. And sorry to hear about your wedding !!

lawred2

stinkbomb wrote: »

Its all very well asking for online classes but many homes will have one laptop if they are lucky. That doesn't work with multiple children in different classes as well as parents trying to work from home.

Sending the work out for the week and a bit of engagement via class dojo or equivalent is just fine.

that would be sufficient for us

[Deleted User]

gnf_ireland wrote: »

No I don’t think that was a joke. But unlike my job, parents are the child’s primary educators and we are carrying the bulk of the load at the moment. These are unprecedented times and we all need to work together.

But teachers always seem to have a chip on their shoulder about feedback. It’s like no one knows anything about a child’s education but them and their way (despite every teacher being different) is the best. Every employee of every company has performance reviews each year and feedback is always provided and suggestions made about how things could be done differently. There is absolutely no need to be defensive when someone makes a suggestion.

But to be fair, you appear to be doing your best so well done for that. Compared to my senior infants teacher of a weekly email and that’s it - it’s a world apart.

My suggestion on recording came from the fact most senior infants cannot read fluently yet and therefore voice would make a massive difference to them. But hey, what do I know about my child !!

My performance is reviewed by the department and their inspectorate - I had a three hour inspection in my class as part of the whole school evaluation this year - and then by the principal at the end of every year. They are educators who are qualified to do their job and have vast experience in the field.

I take their feedback very seriously and implement what they tell me. I am guessing you would not take kindly to people with absolutely no experience in your field telling you how to do your job.

You are a parent and not a professional educator. There's a difference, despite what many parents believe. While you may have a great insight into your child's learning, why would you think that you have a right to tell a professional you don't know how to improve their performance? I wouldn't dream of doing it to anyone in another profession.

If you have an issue with your child's teacher then contact them directly and explain your grievances. If you are not happy with the teacher's response contact the school.

Overall, I do agree with your point, though, that there should be greater consistency in the approach from schools. I do know that my sister would love to be in daily contact with her class but has been told not to by her principal.

Good luck working with your kid and hopefully we all get back to school as soon as possible. I'm sure there are some teachers out there who are happy with their lot at the moment, but in my experience the vas majority such as myself would do anything to get back to school asap.

lawred2

Got a circular from the kid's school that they were "starting now" to investigate remote learning solutions..

Not sure what they have been doing up to now. Waiting for the summer probably.

All we've got from the school since it broke off was a list of books to read, and a few urls where we could log in and have a look around. Bit weak to be honest.

I don't want the kids on zoom calls or remote classes really - would be hard to stick rigid to a schedule but I wouldn't mind a little bit of detail once a week on what work they would have been doing that week were they in school. Not really sure why they went into holiday mode.

Certainly not doing "full days" anyway

stinkbomb

Its all very well asking for online classes but many homes will have one laptop if they are lucky. That doesn't work with multiple children in different classes as well as parents trying to work from home.

Sending the work out for the week and a bit of engagement via class dojo or equivalent is just fine.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd say there's plenty of trades people using their Internet devices to remote work alright!

Are these trades people getting their full wages and allowances as if they were doing their full day's work while being at home?

gnf_ireland

pwurple wrote: »

The difficulty is the variance really. My own kids, the younger class the teacher is absolutely brilliant , she does a 15 minute video from her phone every day, reading a story, and asks the kids to do some phonics work. Find things in the house beginning with an S sound for example, and write them down. It's small, simple, the kids enjoy it and it keeps them in a little routine and maintains the teacher relationship.

My older daughter in 3rd class has had absolutely nothing from the same school. Zero emails, no work, no interaction. Just complete radio silence since March. Now, they have Aladdin, they have private FB groups, they have a school website. The PA bought ALL the teachers laptops last year.

I understand people have family commitments, may be looking after people, but even a note to say that would have been appreciated.
We are doing our own thing with her, in the absense of anything else. She practically drinks books, and we've set up a book swap on the street (yes they all get wiped down and stored for a few days in sealed boxes). Lots of time messing about outside. And we do some online stuff, not much. I've set her up with my own work laptop in the evening when I finish and she's doing a little online typing course. RTE and TG4 are on for an hour each day too.

But I know we are the exception in her class. Her friends parents send messages occasionally to a group whatsapp asking has anyone seen any work. People respond no, and talking about how it's a great break for them. When the schools go back, it will be messy to get them all back on track I'd say.

Absolutely agree re variance within the same school. A bit of consistency would be fantastic

@pwurple you might consider setting up google classroom yourself or maybe signing up to something like reading eggs to give something different.

You should also look at scratch programming - it’s designed by MIT for kids and a great introduction to it. Some courses on Udemy if you need a bit of a helping hand. I get my daughter to write the story she wants to build and then we build it together using scratch. She absolutely loves it !!

Teach30

noodler wrote: »

It doesn't really sound like you are even trying to cope tbh.

I've no idea why you think a few minutes a day from a blank background in your bedroom will "give away" that you live at home.

Have you video called before? You know there is a mute mic option for when you aren't speaking?

Sorry kids, no lessons as teacher is a bit embarrassed about living from home... I wasn't aware employees had an option not to do their job out of perceived embarrassment.

Yea coping as best I can. You do realise it would take more than a few minutes a day to stream classes.

Why Can’t they cope with email instruction alone? I am doing my job that way.

Dravokivich

noodler wrote: »

It doesn't really sound like you are even trying to cope tbh.

I've no idea why you think a few minutes a day from a blank background in your bedroom will "give away" that you live at home.

Have you video called before? You know there is a mute mic option for when you aren't speaking?

Sorry kids, no lessons as teacher is a bit embarrassed about living from home... I wasn't aware employees had an option not to do their job out of perceived embarrassment.

Have you ever been on a conference call with about 30 people? Those who don't have anything to say, tend to be doing other work.

Forget about trying to point fingers at someone who doesn't even have the facilities to do a video call. But take into account who his attendees are going to be. A kid is not going to sit at a video call for any lenght of time. Let alone a virtual classroom environment. Even the schools that pushed ahead with iPads, have found they needed to reign that in, because the kids didn't respond well to it!

Technology is not the answer to how do we effectively continue our child's education during this. We as parents need better guidance on how to fill that gap.

My son is in Senior Infants, so I've been focused on his reading, writing and maths. I don't need his teacher to do a video call, to talk about reading, writing and maths.

gnf_ireland

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd say there's plenty of trades people using their Internet devices to remote work alright!

Would you believe my alarm technician posted me out a number of batteries and then rang me via FaceTime and talked me through each of the steps to check the alarm and worked out the batteries that were running low etc and I changed them myself.

Was it ideal - no ! Was it better than not having a working alarm - absolutely !!

noodler

Teach30 wrote: »

Yea I dont want my students knowing I live at home with my parents. The noise levels they create make it an unsuitable area for streaming from.

Just like us all the students will have to cope. Resilience is a key feature of wellbeing and this is a great time to work on that.

Nothing wrong with using email to assist in remote learning, they can ask their parents/guardians for help if they need to and I’m only an email away if they have questions.

It doesn't really sound like you are even trying to cope tbh.

I've no idea why you think a few minutes a day from a blank background in your bedroom will "give away" that you live at home.

Have you video called before? You know there is a mute mic option for when you aren't speaking?

Sorry kids, no lessons as teacher is a bit embarrassed about living from home... I wasn't aware employees had an option not to do their job out of perceived embarrassment.

Dravokivich

thomasdylan wrote: »

Why would it be a GDPR issue to use your own laptop?

Data accessible to and stored on the device. Would be a concern, regarding any potential exposure of the device. Especially a device that's not managed by the organisation. How many people here encrypt their Laptops Hard Drive?

Teach30

maninasia wrote: »

You said you couldn't work because your parents are noisy. Fact is everybody has to adjust right now. Better done than not done. You think the rest of us working from home have it any better ?
Students need to be in contact with teachers, they don't want their teachers hiding away behind email.

Yea I dont want my students knowing I live at home with my parents. The noise levels they create make it an unsuitable area for streaming from.

Just like us all the students will have to cope. Resilience is a key feature of wellbeing and this is a great time to work on that.

Nothing wrong with using email to assist in remote learning, they can ask their parents/guardians for help if they need to and I’m only an email away if they have questions.

Teach30

noodler wrote: »

I'm sorry you are feeling that way.

However, what would you be doing if school was on? Would you be going? Or would you stay home to look after your elderly parents?

You have so many excuses in your posts and some of them are incredulous as excuses for not doing a bit of work with your atudents.

No excuses just reality. If the school building was open I would gladly attend and use the facilities there. As is stands I have to assist in caring for the elderly, they think when I’m at home I will help them, going to shop etc they dont get this online learning.

We all have to adapt so why can’t students adapt to receiving work via email? Seeing me or hearing my voice is not going to motivate them any further. I would have no problem streaming my teaching from an appropriate location e.g a classroom but until then they too will have to adapt and cope like the rest of us.

Wanderer78

facehugger99 wrote:

While the rest of the workforce has had to get on with remote working and make the best of it, the teachers are using every excuse from lack of technology to GDPR - it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

I'd say there's plenty of trades people using their Internet devices to remote work alright!

facehugger99

As a parent of 2 primary school children, the lack of effort from the teachers of either school has been disappointing but unsurprising.

While the rest of the workforce has had to get on with remote working and make the best of it, the teachers are using every excuse from lack of technology to GDPR - it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

pwurple

The difficulty is the variance really. My own kids, the younger class the teacher is absolutely brilliant , she does a 15 minute video from her phone every day, reading a story, and asks the kids to do some phonics work. Find things in the house beginning with an S sound for example, and write them down. It's small, simple, the kids enjoy it and it keeps them in a little routine and maintains the teacher relationship.

My older daughter in 3rd class has had absolutely nothing from the same school. Zero emails, no work, no interaction. Just complete radio silence since March. Now, they have Aladdin, they have private FB groups, they have a school website. The PA bought ALL the teachers laptops last year.

I understand people have family commitments, may be looking after people, but even a note to say that would have been appreciated.
We are doing our own thing with her, in the absense of anything else. She practically drinks books, and we've set up a book swap on the street (yes they all get wiped down and stored for a few days in sealed boxes). Lots of time messing about outside. And we do some online stuff, not much. I've set her up with my own work laptop in the evening when I finish and she's doing a little online typing course. RTE and TG4 are on for an hour each day too.

But I know we are the exception in her class. Her friends parents send messages occasionally to a group whatsapp asking has anyone seen any work. People respond no, and talking about how it's a great break for them. When the schools go back, it will be messy to get them all back on track I'd say.

noodler

Teach30 wrote: »

Right and have my mother roaring at me do I want my dinner/am I going to the shop now/will I answer the phone/what am I doing etc etc or their grandchildren running in on top of me - they have NO boundaries. I would actually be mortified for my students to see that living situation. I am not willing to risk it to be honest.

Overall I’d like to point out that while it may seem that a teacher is doing very little you have no idea what is going on in their lives.

I’m struggling as it is being at home caring for my elderly parents. The lack of contact with friends, the fact my wedding has been cancelled and I can’t see my fiance. My nerves are in shreds, I can’t sleep and I also have to worry about not getting in trouble for lack of internet access. When in reality I am trying my very best to stay on top of things but I feel like I’m sinking as I have no routine in my life.

Let me back in a classroom and I will gladly teach from there.

I'm sorry you are feeling that way.

However, what would you be doing if school was on? Would you be going? Or would you stay home to look after your elderly parents?

You have so many excuses in your posts and some of them are incredulous as excuses for not doing a bit of work with your atudents.

Wanderer78

completedit wrote:

Education is the sum of its parts. What are the life skills you want to give them? How to pay bills? How to buy a house? (I just always see these type or comments under Joe Rogan videos) Seems to completely miss the point. Education provides kids with skills that are hard to quantify because we take it as a given that they will have them. Our education system gives people the skills they need to have the best chance to survive in our environment.

You ll actually find very little of the information we are given in our educational systems is actually used in adulthood, our educational systems are just joint memory competitions, I'd completely agree with David mcwilliams here, they make a whole pile of people think they're really intelligent and another pile think they're really stupid. Our system needs a gigantic overhaul, but that may never happen. I'd prefer to see exercises in more team based activities and collaboration, not our current individualistic competition, prioritisation in wellbeing, both physically and mentally, and stop the damn homework, we re showing kids, if you don't bring your work home with you after school/work, you ll be a failure in life. Ffs, there kids, they only get one go at childhood.

spurious

Ricky Wonderful Addict wrote: »

Yes that would be another good solution. They could align with the secondary schools to do the same (take May, June and July as summer holidays for secondary).

Mocks are held during normal school year and take the full exam format/set up, so no reason why leaving cert couldn't take place in August and everyone back to school come August as well, virus permitting of course. .

Who would examine the papers and what would their classes do during September while they do it? Examining is a full-time 3 week (7 days a week) job.

Gooser14

niallo27 wrote:

Come on, this cannot be a valid reason. Even hotspotting on your phone in the back arse of no where would get you 5-6 Mbps.

Not all phone plans permit you to hotspot.