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The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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Comments

  • #3572
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,411 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Aegir wrote: »
    They issued that several times, showing out of the numbers published, how many died on what dates.

    IIRC it resulted in people on here accusing them of cooking the books.

    Genuine question. How many have died in non hospital settings in the UK?

    They seem determined to only publicise the lowest number possible.


  • #3573
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Genuine question. How many have died in non hospital settings in the UK?

    They seem determined to only publicise the lowest number possible.

    Look at the ONS data. It is all there.

    You can compare it to Ireland’s if you want. When the Irish government decide to stop fishing the figures that is.


  • #3574
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,411 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Aegir wrote: »
    Look at the ONS data. It is all there.

    You can compare it to Ireland’s if you want. When the Irish government decide to stop fishing the figures that is.

    Fair enough. So, you don't know.

    If anything the Irish figures include too many deaths due to including any death where the patient was c19 positive but died of an underlying cause.


  • #3575
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Fair enough. So, you don't know.

    If anything the Irish figures include too many deaths due to including any death where the patient was c19 positive but died of an underlying cause.

    But ignore the ones where the person wasn’t tested.


  • #3576
    Dave0301
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,796 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    Aegir wrote: »
    Look at the ONS data. It is all there.

    You can compare it to Ireland’s if you want. When the Irish government decide to stop fishing the figures that is.

    Any reports or news links to substantiate this? I know that Ireland's numbers aren't great when compared to other similar seized countries, but I wasn't aware there was evidence that they were trying to muddy the waters.

    At least not like say the UK were for example.


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  • #3577
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,411 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Aegir wrote: »
    But ignore the ones where the person wasn’t tested.

    You're joking right? We're testing over 2.5 times per capita the UK figure.

    You just seem determined to lob red herrings and not answer a straightforward question.

    Good luck with that.


  • #3578
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dave0301 wrote: »
    Any reports or news links to substantiate this? I know that Ireland's numbers aren't great when compared to other similar seized countries, but I wasn't aware there was evidence that they were trying to muddy the waters.

    At least not like say the UK were for example.

    The official figures clearly state the number of deaths of people diagnosed with covid 19.

    Therefore those not diagnosed, or not tested, are not included.


  • #3579
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    You're joking right? We're testing over 2.5 times per capita the UK figure.

    And?

    There are plenty of allegations floating around but a distinct lack of accountability by the government.


  • #3580
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    devnull wrote: »
    Department of Health and Social Care has now issued a political statement aimed at Sky News about their coverage of the Times article
    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1251954702453018625

    Why is a DHSC official account being used for what is a political/PR issue?

    They really are going full Trump it seems, scary times for the UK.

    Have only skimmed the points made but that they're still trying to portray Johnson missing five cobra meetings as completely normal immediately sticks out. No way is it normal. I checked back over cobra records and it was definitely not normal for either May or Cameron to miss a cobra meeting. Certainly not 5 in a row. I hope somebody breaks rank and offers clarification on that because it is just a blatant spin job imo. A crisis meeting as a potential global situation looms - what attentive leader isnt going to want to be at hand to monitor that? For almost a month what more pressing business did this pm have?


  • #3581
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Aegir wrote: »
    What led you to that interpretation?

    Bigotry, paranoia, obsession? Hatred? Or just being full of bull****. Who knows.

    Two weeks ago the IHME issued a report that people on here were stating must be true because the IHME were a respected organisation. It showed that two days ago, the UK was going to have just under 3000 deaths in one day, but also how ****ing awesome Ireland was because there would only be 400 deaths here by the end of August.

    I dismissed it off hand and was told then “ nothing to see here”

    I’ll pop back in two weeks to see if the usual no lifers are still spouting ****e or if they’ve gone back on to any of their usual anti British threads.

    So you don't have an answer so if they are still being done or why they aren't counting deaths in care homes?

    My my. I am shocked and then we get the "anti-British" trope you've love to throw out when you get questioned on your sycophancy.


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  • #3582
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Aegir wrote: »
    The official figures clearly state the number of deaths of people diagnosed with covid 19.

    Therefore those not diagnosed, or not tested, are not included.

    So what you're saying is that it's wrong that deaths that have nothing linking them to coronavirus, are not being counted as deaths related to coronavirus and you have a bit of an issue with this?

    I'm at a loss as to why we are deflecting about the Irish government in a thread which is about the UK response to Coronavirus. But since the UK response is the topic at hand, I thought I'd have a look at what the UK reports.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1251861744273809409
    Why are you talking about the Irish not including those who were not tested in a thread about the UK whilst not mentioning the fact the UK are taking an approach of also not including people who had a test and that test was positive?

    Just seems an awful lot like deflection to me.


  • #3583
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Have only skimmed the points made but that they're still trying to portray Johnson missing five cobra meetings as completely normal immediately sticks out. No way is it normal. I checked back over cobra records and it was definitely not normal for either May or Cameron to miss a cobra meeting. Certainly not 5 in a row. I hope somebody breaks rank and offers clarification on that because it is just a blatant spin job imo. A crisis meeting as a potential global situation looms - what attentive leader isnt going to want to be at hand to monitor that? For almost a month what more pressing business did this pm have?

    There's a hell of a lot of spin in there and the same kind of tactics of which were used against the FT who exposed the government a few weeks ago, where they deliberately misinterpreted what the claim was saying and giving a response that didn't answer the explicit point that was being made as they don't want to respond to directly because it would be incriminating.

    For instance this one
    Times:
    By the time the Prime Minister chaired a COBR meeting on March 2 ‘the virus had sneaked into our airports, our trains, our workplaces and our homes. Britain was on course for one of the worst infections of the most insidious virus to have hit the world in a century.'

    Government
    This virus has hit countries across the world. It is ridiculous to suggest that coronavirus only reached the UK because the Health Secretary and not the PM chaired a COBR meeting.

    The Times never said that the coronavirus reached the UK because the health secretary chaired a COBR meeting, they said that the Prime Minister was absent when he should have been there. The government knows this but instead tried to spin the point that was being made for their troll farm to try and paint a false narrative about what the Times was actually saying.

    This is despicable stuff, deliberately taking stuff out of context as part of their propaganda operation. Also clear that they didn't approve of Sky News calling out their lies today, hence the direction of the tweet.

    I really fear that the UK is heading towards a Trump style situation.


  • #3584
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    devnull wrote: »
    So what you're saying is that it's wrong that deaths that have nothing linking them to coronavirus, are not being counted as deaths related to coronavirus and you have a bit of an issue with this?

    I'm at a loss as to why we are deflecting about the Irish government in a thread which is about the UK response to Coronavirus. But since the UK response is the topic at hand, I thought I'd have a look at what the UK reports.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1251861744273809409
    Why are you talking about the Irish not including those who were not tested in a thread about the UK whilst not mentioning the fact the UK are taking an approach of also not including people who had a test and that test was positive?

    Just seems an awful lot like deflection to me.

    Why are we talking about the Irish numbers in an Irish forum, is there not something about not criticising the spec in your neighbours eye?

    The ONS figures include people who died where covid 19 was either suspected, or a suspected factor, even if the casualty did not have a test.

    Each region reports the numbers that died in hospital and the regional statistics office report in the numbers that have died elsewhere, albeit with a delay due to the complexities of collating that data

    It would be really really good if the Irish government did that, to avoid any ambiguity, would it not?

    Instead they chose to hide behind the CMO and their twitter accounts and avoid any direct questioning from the media.

    Let me ask you something.

    You have gone to extraordinary lengths to cross check all the numbers published by the various is in the uk. Have you done the same for Ireland and if not, why?


  • #3585
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    devnull wrote: »
    There's a hell of a lot of spin in there and the same kind of tactics of which were used against the FT who exposed the government a few weeks ago, where they deliberately misinterpreted what the claim was saying and giving a response that didn't answer the explicit point that was being made as they don't want to respond to directly because it would be incriminating.

    For instance this one


    The Times never said that the coronavirus reached the UK because the health secretary chaired a COBR meeting, they said that the Prime Minister was absent when he should have been there. The government knows this but instead tried to spin the point that was being made for their troll farm to try and paint a false narrative about what the Times was actually saying.

    This is despicable stuff, deliberately taking stuff out of context

    Yeah noticed that alright. That's clear straw man stuff right there. I mentioned some time back that they'd brought Isaac Levido back into the fold with the brief to run the corona pr like an election campaign. And this is what they're clearly delivering, attack, attack, attack.

    Oh, and you're spot on too about the DHSC being used this way to fight downing streets bloody battles. Civil servants should be furious about that.


  • #3586
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Aegir wrote: »
    Why are we talking about the Irish numbers in an Irish forum, is there not something about not criticising the spec in your neighbours eye?

    The ONS figures include people who died where covid 19 was either suspected, or a suspected factor, even if the casualty did not have a test.

    Each region reports the numbers that died in hospital and the regional statistics office report in the numbers that have died elsewhere, albeit with a delay due to the complexities of collating that data

    It would be really really good if the Irish government did that, to avoid any ambiguity, would it not?

    Instead they chose to hide behind the CMO and their twitter accounts and avoid any direct questioning from the media.

    Let me ask you something.

    You have gone to extraordinary lengths to cross check all the numbers published by the various is in the uk. Have you done the same for Ireland and if not, why?

    I'm pretty sure that people will have discussed the numbers in relation to Ireland and the accuracy of them in the relevant thread but this one is about the UK response to Coronavirus so it's only natural that people will talk about that mainly here, even if there is a lot of deflection going on to avoid discussing the problems that the UK has at the moment.


  • #3587
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    devnull wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that people will have discussed the numbers in relation to Ireland and the accuracy of them in the relevant thread.

    So you have no idea, but are fixated on the UK numbers?

    Are you not Irish or living in Ireland?


  • #3588
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Aegir wrote: »
    So you have no idea, but are fixated on the UK numbers?

    Are you not Irish or living in Ireland?

    You don't understand why he's fixed on UK numbers in the "UK response to Covid-19" thread?

    Are you actually for real?

    Dig up!


  • #3589
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    You don't understand why he's fixed on UK numbers in the "UK response to Covid-19" thread?

    Are you actually for real?

    Dig up!

    Fixated on the UK numbers, but has no clue about the Irish ones.

    Does that not seem odd to you?


  • #3590
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Aegir wrote: »
    Fixated on the UK numbers, but has no clue about the Irish ones.

    Does that not seem odd to you?

    It think it seems odder that you haven't figured out another deflectionary tactic outside of "Buh wabout Éire?" at this stage.

    We get it. The UK is amazing and never puts a foot wrong.


  • #3591
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    On a lighter note the BBC are rolling out their home schooling programming from tomorrow - doing the kind thing that no other broadcaster could hope to match even if they wanted to

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/apr/19/home-schools-back-with-help-from-aguero-oti-and-attenborough

    Some good stuff in there might watch it myself, I trust Horrible Histories will get a more prominent slot for this season. :)


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  • #3592
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    It think it seems odder that you haven't figured out another deflectionary tactic outside of "Buh wabout Éire?" at this stage.

    We get it. The UK is amazing and never puts a foot wrong.

    It isn’t so much about Ireland, it’s more a confusion as to why you guys are obsessed about a foreign government but have no idea what is going on here and are quite happy to let the government, that has a direct affect on our lives, off the hook.

    This is why successive Irish governments have been allowed to get away with all sorts of **** because people are more worried about da Brits.

    As a Brit, I find it exceptionally strange.


  • #3593
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Aegir wrote: »
    It isn’t so much about Ireland, it’s more a confusion as to why you guys are obsessed about a foreign government but have no idea what is going on here and are quite happy to let the government, that has a direct affect on our lives, off the hook.

    This is why successive Irish governments have been allowed to get away with all sorts of **** because people are more worried about da Brits.

    As a Brit, I find it exceptionally strange.

    There's covid 19 threads about Ireland, UK, and Sweden, and the only one with natives trying to deflect furiously, is this one.

    Now can we get back on topic?


  • #3594
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Aegir wrote: »
    It isn’t so much about Ireland, it’s more a confusion as to why you guys are obsessed about a foreign government but have no idea what is going on here and are quite happy to let the government, that has a direct affect on our lives, off the hook.

    This is why successive Irish governments have been allowed to get away with all sorts of **** because people are more worried about da Brits.

    As a Brit, I find it exceptionally strange.

    I see. You don't know why anyone in this particular thread wants to comment or criticise the UK government?

    Obsesssed with a foreign government?

    It's not like we're talking about the benevolent Nation of Bhutan here, this is a country that we were part of until 1922 and that still has jurisdiction over part of our island.

    - That many millions of us died or emigrated as a result of policies made in London.

    - That had the temerity to call a civil war under their watch, "The Troubles" and othered its very existence.

    It's also a place that a lot of our people live and work and get educated in.

    The thing is you know quite well why we might be interested in the UK's response, and it is simply this: When the UK fúcks up we get ridden as well.

    So don't come in here all coy and acting naive about the "Irish and their interest in a foreign country". Ridiculous carry-on.


  • #3595
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,484 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    pablo128 wrote: »

    Now can we get back on topic?
    That's my job:(

    Now back on topic, which is nothing to do with the Irish numbers


  • #3596
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    I see. You don't know why anyone in this particular thread wants to comment or criticise the UK government?

    Obsesssed with a foreign government?

    It's not like we're talking about the benevolent Nation of Bhutan here, this is a country that we were part of until 1922 and that still has jurisdiction over part of our island.

    - That many millions of us died or emigrated as a result of policies made in London.

    - That had the temerity to call a civil war under their watch, "The Troubles" and othered its very existence.

    It's also a place that a lot of our people live and work and get educated in.

    The thing is you know quite well why we might be interested in the UK's response, and it is simply this: When the UK fúcks up we get ridden as well.

    So don't come in here all coy and acting naive about the "Irish and their interest in a foreign country". Ridiculous carry-on.

    Aah, So it’s just an obsession with da Brits.


  • #3597
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Aegir wrote: »
    Aah, So it’s just an obsession with da Brits.

    So you have no answwrs to the questions posited to you earlier so?

    Grand. We'll move on.


  • #3598
    Dave0301
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,796 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    Aegir wrote: »
    Aah, So it’s just an obsession with da Brits.

    This is so tiresome.

    I want to discuss the response of the UK government in a robust way and am happy to see both sides of the discussion.

    There has not been a perfect response by any country really, although some appear to handle it better than others.

    It is just a pity that you aren't willing to debate it.


  • #3599
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dave0301 wrote: »
    This is so tiresome.

    I want to discuss the response of the UK government in a robust way and am happy to see both sides of the discussion.

    Instead we get this every day or so because you can't seem to accept that the Tories have made mistakes in their approach to this. There has not been a perfect response by any country really, although some appear to handle it better than others.

    It is just a pity that you aren't willing to debate it.

    I am more than happy to debate it, but as usual in these threads, there is no debate it is an echo chamber where anyone who does not agree with the group think is just labelled a Tory, a brexiteer or, oddly, a sycophant. We;ve even had one poster go to great lengths to tell us just how much the Brits are despised and another that wants to give us a history lesson, because apparently the famine is a very relevant :rolleyes:

    To correctly debate something, you need to draw in comparisons, but that apparently is just deflecting, so it isn't easy.


  • #3600
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    So you have no answwrs to the questions posited to you earlier so?

    Grand. We'll move on.

    which bit of "They are in the ONS data" was confusing?


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  • #3601
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,181 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Aegir wrote: »
    I am more than happy to debate it, but as usual in these threads, there is no debate it is an echo chamber where anyone who does not agree with the group think is just labelled a Tory, a brexiteer or, oddly, a sycophant. We;ve even had one poster go to great lengths to tell us just how much the Brits are despised and another that wants to give us a history lesson, because apparently the famine is a very relevant :rolleyes:

    To correctly debate something, you need to draw in comparisons, but that apparently is just deflecting, so it isn't easy.


    Okay lets draw comparisons, even the US is ahead of the UK on tests per million and their testing was a cluster**** to begin with where they spent weeks designing their own tests that didn't work.

    The first cases found in the UK were only 10 days after the US. The UK started rolling out its testing on Feb 26th while the US tests were still massively limited on March 9th

    Why are the UK so far behind vs the US on testing considering the monumental mess the US made of starting testing?


This discussion has been closed.
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