Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

polesheep · 19-04-2020 10:57AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Trolling or not, there are many people saying the same thing. One teacher I know says that she doesn’t care if the schools are closed till Christmas. It’s well for her, she gets full pay for doing nothing.

True. I see people saying that they won't allow their children back to school until there is a vaccine. Scaring people worked to achieve a lockdown. Now the various governments will have to put as much effort into reassuring people. A vaccine may never be found and people need to be made aware of this.

youandme13 · 19-04-2020 10:57AM

Even one day a week, how are they going to make sure 35 children in a room keep social distancing? I know my sons class all go mad after even a week off after not seeing each other.

Lundstram · 19-04-2020 10:57AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Trolling or not, there are many people saying the same thing. One teacher I know says that she doesn’t care if the schools are closed till Christmas. It’s well for her, she gets full pay for doing nothing.

Hopefully they'll be the first PS employees to have their salary clipped once all this is over and all those €350s need to be paid back somehow. People need to remember this time when they're threatening to strike yet again.

jibber5000 · 19-04-2020 10:57AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Ah would you Trump getting something right for the wrong reasons is not something that can be used to defend his awful handling of this crisis.

So the US states are different from the rest of the world because what exactly? Why are they ready to open up? Who is saying that? Reputable People in the field or politicians?

What has unemployment numbers got to do with stopping the virus? So the USA is gonna open up because it’s not capable of protecting its most vulnerable and people have to work or die. That’s not a country I would be holding up as a positive benchmark.

Because you can't look at one in isolation.

No point saying ive fixed my broken ankle, all I had to do was cut off my leg.

If the US stays in lockdown for months tens of millions will be adversely affected. You'll have increased mental health issues, suicides, people turning to drugs.

I think it's easy for some people, who usually have well paid fixed jobs, to judge people who don't know where theyre going to get money to feed their family.

irishlad. · 19-04-2020 10:58AM

youandme13 wrote: »

Even one day a week, how are they going to make sure 35 children in a room keep social distancing? I know my sons class all go mad after even a week off after not seeing each other.

I can tell you now, social distancing will go out the window. I could not guarantee that kind of social distancing in a classroom. Keeping the parents 2m apart outside the door will be another problem!

youandme13 · 19-04-2020 10:59AM

polesheep wrote: »

A vaccine may never be found and people need to be made aware of this.

I've said that to a few people to be told don't be silly! But in reality they still don't have a vaccine for SARRS which is a cousin of covid19!

stephenjmcd · 19-04-2020 11:01AM

polesheep wrote: »

True. I see people saying that they won't allow their children back to school until there is a vaccine. Scaring people worked to achieve a lockdown. Now the various governments will have to put as much effort into reassuring people. A vaccine may never be found and people need to be made aware of this.

There is absolutely no point in waiting for a vaccine to reopen things.
Now I'd like a phased reopening over a number of months, not everything at one go, that would just be madness. But the notion that we can't have gatherings until a vaccine is just not feasible, vaccine doesn't have a time line and nobody knows if it'll even work. As the WHO keeps saying we'll have to learn to live alongside this.

Sam Russell · 19-04-2020 11:01AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

Yet our death rate is nearly identical to the US.

118 per million US
116 per million Ireland

The way it's portrayed by the media here we're doing a brilliant job and trump is leading them off a cliff.

All absolute nonsense of course.

The nonsense is in your comparison.

Try comparing Ireland with NY State.

The disease is a plague, and sweeps through countries - particularly one as big as the USA. Your comparison would be valid in a decade when this is all over. It has not reached most of the USA yet.

Most would think we have a very poor health service compared with other countries, particularly the UK. However, the UK has the NHS buckling while our HSE has managed to not run out of ventilators or ICU beds.

We are doing well, because most people are observing the rules. The published figures are historic in that hospitalisation occurs about 15 days after infection, and death 20 to 30 days after infection. Testing is ramping up and has been since it started.

Nursing homes are a problem for several reasons. The care required by residents is very close contact and impossible to provide without risk of infection. The staff are moving from one home to another because more staff are required to cope. They are private businesses and have minimal equipment to cope with the current epidemic. The HSE are now providing PPE to them which was difficult to source for the homes due to worldwide shortages.

It is the Irish population that are fighting this and it is only by all of us continuing this fight by following the rules will we conquer it. The HSE and Dept of Health can only exhort us to do so.

Let us hope that those who choose to ignore the rules are few and will not effect the result. There are always selfish vandals, idiots and criminals in society which we try to control with varying success.

Cork Boy 53 · 19-04-2020 11:03AM

polesheep wrote: »

Once you realise that paddygreen is trolling, he's actually entertaining.

Indeed. Paddy is the boards.ie version of Oliver Callan. Problem is some posters here seem to take him seriously.

Danzy · 19-04-2020 11:05AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

Nobody said it was insightful leadership. But he did it and that's part of the reason that the vast majority of states have low infection rates.

It's going to be worse because of sheer population and accurate reporting. Per capita as I've said earlier it's right beside us.

Again most states have seen the peak of the curve. Should they all stay shut because of new York?

Have you seen the unemployment numbers? If you think a continued shut down won't destroy millions of lives you're delusional.

Jibber has a point here. America is doing well with it so far.

A continued lockdown there will lead to a severe global depression.

It must be balanced and there will be no return to normal. Most of America has levels of infection, that are well below ours when we locked down.

People need to put aside the obsession with Trump and look at the bigger picture.

growleaves · 19-04-2020 11:05AM

The disease is a plague, and sweeps through countries

It sweeps through countries killing as many people as a seasonal illness.

There are always selfish vandals, idiots and criminals in society which we try to control with varying success.

Vandals? What's being vandalised?

Mullaghteelin · 19-04-2020 11:06AM

Paddygreen wrote: »

Also the last time I was clapping and woohooing out my landing window for our amazing Healthcare Heros I noticed that some of my neighbours were no longer doing so. I am keeping an eye out to see what they are up to, to see if they are still following the rules.

So.. You're are suspicious of your neighbours because they won't put on fake smiles and stand outside clapping? Seriously, that is sinister and creepy cult-like behaviour. It's like being suspicious of your neighbour for not saying Heil Hitler in WWII Germany.
In fairness, the clapping loses its impact if its done too often, and isn't genuine if there's peer pressure involved.

wakka12 · 19-04-2020 11:07AM

growleaves wrote: »

It sweeps through countries killing as many people as a seasonal illness.

Vandals? What's being vandalised?

In countries where it has 'swept through' it has killed multiples of what seasonal illness does

A 'serious epidemic of influenza' would kill 1150 people in Belgium in a whole year, in a typical year just 500 deaths.
https://www.sciensano.be/en/node/464
Belgium currently has reported almost 5700 deaths from COVID, and that is in FOUR weeks. So kindly stop posting bull**** misinformation

Gonzo · 19-04-2020 11:08AM

I reckon pubs will open before the end of the Summer at the latest. That is a massive industry to leave closed for 6+ months and if they decide to keep them closed into 2021 most of them will never reopen.

So we could see the pubs open again by July or early August, however gone will be the days of standing shoulder to shoulder in a pub with pints in hand. Social distancing will have to be introduced to pubs, no crowds, hand sanitizers at the door on the way in and way out. Some may even have security checking that customers are washing/disinfecting their hands. Everyone will have to sit down to have their drink, no standing crowding up the place. This could work, it won't be the same as what it was but it's far better than keeping them shut for the rest of the year.

Loafing Oaf · 19-04-2020 11:09AM

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

So.. You're are suspicious of your neighbours because they won't put on fake smiles and stand outside clapping? Seriously, that is sinister and creepy cult-like behaviour.

He's spoofing lockdown 'fanatics'

Professor Moriarty · 19-04-2020 11:09AM

Gonzo wrote: »

I reckon pubs will open before the end of the Summer at the latest. That is a massive industry to leave closed for 6+ months and if they decide to keep them closed into 2021 most of them will never reopen.

So we could see the pubs open again by July or early August, however gone will be the days of standing shoulder to shoulder in a pub with pints in hand. Social distancing will have to be introduced to pubs, no crowds, hand sanitizers at the door on the way in and way out. Some may even have security checking that customers are washing/disinfecting their hands. Everyone will have to sit down to have their drink, no standing crowding up the place. This could work, it won't be the same as what it was but it's far better than keeping them shut for the rest of the year.

You'll be paying an awful lot more for that pint.

gmisk · 19-04-2020 11:09AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

"The US" is not all surging at all. Many places have flattened the curve, even NYC. Fact is, some parts of the US are ok to begin lifting their restrictions. Not fully of course, but gradually. Whether every state makes that choice at the right time remains to be seen.

I suppose let's wait and see how things turn out in the US..but re opening beaches in Florida...they are heaving within 30 minutes...I don't think it will end well.

Drumpot · 19-04-2020 11:10AM

jibber5000 wrote: »

Because you can't look at one in isolation.

No point saying ive fixed my broken ankle, all I had to do was cut off my leg.

If the US stays in lockdown for months tens of millions will be adversely affected. You'll have increased mental health issues, suicides, people turning to drugs.

I think it's easy for some people, who usually have well paid fixed jobs, to judge people who don't know where theyre going to get money to feed their family.

The USA barely started their lockdown and trump was talking about opening up again. Allowing church and mass groups to merge onto beaches is retarded and is not vital to keep an economy going.

USA is richer then Ireland, so how come we could come up with at least 3 month financial strategy to help most people/families and the USA can’t? It’s not that they can’t, its that they won’t because of political ideals.

In terms of people stuck at home, mental health issues can be addressed. I’ve suffered them myself but there are a lot of online supports. This is a red herring argument on its own.

Eventually with more knowledge and a better way of handling this and possibly down to necessity, we will have to lower restrictions. But the USA has no strategy , it’s a headless chicken throw crap at a wall and see what sticks approach with the economy’s demands overriding human safety. That on its own is a horrible indictment of that country.

podgeandrodge · 19-04-2020 11:10AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Have we any cases of supermarket staff here infected? I'm very surprised that I've not seen any in the media yet these workers would be currently the most exposed by far outside the healthcare sector.

Most articles/studies on this have explicitly stated that, while the virus can be airborne, there is no proof that the smaller particles lying around in the air are sufficient to infect. Supermarket staff are not falling ill in their droves. They would be if all these coughs and sneezes were hovering about like this and were big enough droplets to infect.

As you say, if staff were falling sick this would be front page news. It isn't.

And according to Govt, we have close to zero community growth. So what's happening with all the droplets that can so easily cause infection?

Interesting article on this:
https://today.rtl.lu/news/science-and-environment/a/1498185.html

eagle eye · 19-04-2020 11:12AM

smelly sock wrote:

The govt. did ok imo.

They have been nothing short of horrendous and continue to be. They allowed 180+ Bulgarians in here in the middle of a lockdown without quarantine. I wonder how many others they let in?
Cheltenham and the thousands who went over without much objection from our government, our horse racing industry was allowed to continue travelling the country and put on race meetings for over a week after even the UK had stopped it.
The lockdown was far too late starting. The lack of supplies and general unpreparedness for an emergency situation is on them as well.
I could go on but it's pointless. What matters now us getting us in the best position to beat this thing. Quarantining anybody that wants to come in here is paramount to our recovery as well as being tough on those who aren't going along with the lockdown.

growleaves · 19-04-2020 11:13AM

In countries where it has 'swept through' it has killed multiples of what seasonal illness does

Nope. Even with inflated figures there's no hiding the reality:

A few years ago influenza killed 28,000 in the UK. Coronavirus deaths are at 15,000.

If the disease has peaked, which many epidemologists seem to think (including the 'official' ones), then its just an ordinary coronavirus like other coronaviruses.

If you were to take a bad flu year which killed 650,000 globally (upper end of the spectrum) and follow it breathlessly day by day, look at cases and deaths every day, focus on deaths from lack of ICU capacity, which does happen, the emotional result would be the same.

Kermit.de.frog · 19-04-2020 11:16AM

Deaths wilt, cases surge in Spain

+410 deaths & 4,218 new cases

Inquitus · 19-04-2020 11:17AM

Opening schools one day a week is daft.

wakka12 · 19-04-2020 11:21AM

growleaves wrote: »

Nope. Even with inflated figures there's no hiding the reality:

A few years ago influenza killed 28,000 in the UK. Coronavirus deaths are at 15,000.

If the disease has peaked, which many seem epidemologists seem to think (including the 'official' ones), then its just an ordinary coronavirus like other coronaviruses.

If you were to take a bad flu year which killed 650,000 globally (upper end of the spectrum) and follow it breathlessly day by day, look at cases and deaths every day, focus on deaths from lack of ICU capacity, which does happen, the emotional result would be the same.

This is simply wrong, as I said, Belgium has experienced 5x times the number of deaths of a BAD flu year in just four weeks. It is incomparable to flu. Do you think 'peak' means its over, multiple waves are expected throughout the autumn

Flu operates globally, COVID is not currently pandemic within much of the globe, such as much of Africa and China and India. So how could it be compared to flu in that regard. If you look at places where it is widespread, France,Spain, Italy, New York, Belgium it is killing multiples of the deaths caused by seasonal illness in a much shorter timeframe

wadacrack · 19-04-2020 11:22AM

growleaves wrote: »

Nope. Even with inflated figures there's no hiding the reality:

A few years ago influenza killed 28,000 in the UK. Coronavirus deaths are at 15,000.

If the disease has peaked, which many seem epidemologists seem to think (including the 'official' ones), then its just an ordinary coronavirus like other coronaviruses.

If you were to take a bad flu year which killed 650,000 globally (upper end of the spectrum) and follow it breathlessly day by day, look at cases and deaths every day, focus on deaths from lack of ICU capacity, which does happen, the emotional result would be the same.

It would be 150,000 death in a year compared to 28,000 if no restrictions. Thats a conservative number too. It has a mortality 20 times greater and is more infectious. It is much worse and your argument is illogical. We don't know about the long term side effects or immunity either. Lots of unknowns compared to the flu. Every country is on lockdown for a reason. It has only peaked because of a lockdown btw. Its going to surge back up if we just go back to normal. Every epidemiologist understands this

Gynoid · 19-04-2020 11:22AM

wakka12 wrote: »

In countries where it has 'swept through' it has killed multiples of what seasonal illness does

A lot of people seem to be in some sort of a negotiation phase with a virus, attempting to process what has so very radically changed in the world in the past few months.

You let us have our treats back, our jobs, our economy, and we will let you "burn" through the herd and give you the older and weaker ones (they hope). We will do without our pubs and concerts (maybe) but please let us back out and we will build up vast ICUs full of ventilators to hook up to the percentage of people you strike severely.

I don't think a lot of people really get what has happened. It is hard to process it. A bit shocking, a lot shocking.

When we release restrictions there will be fresh waves of infection as people come together and transmit, and the numbers in hospitals, ICUs and morgues will increase. Maybe a lot. Maybe you or me will get a terrible dose in spite of all efforts standing back in the office, canteen, site, factory floor. Maybe your friends. Your family.

It is just the way it will be. I know. It is hard to get the mind around. No wonder people are doing all sorts of bargaining and negotiating with reality. It is an awful thing released from Pandora's Box.

Cork Boy 53 · 19-04-2020 11:23AM

eagle eye wrote: »

They have been nothing short of horrendous and continue to be. They allowed 180+ Bulgarians in here in the middle of a lockdown without quarantine. I wonder how many others they let in?
Cheltenham and the thousands who went over without much objection from our government, our horse racing industry was allowed to continue travelling the country and put on race meetings for over a week after even the UK had stopped it.
The lockdown was far too late starting. The lack of supplies and general unpreparedness for an emergency situation is on them as well.
I could go on but it's pointless. What matters now us getting us in the best position to beat this thing. Quarantining anybody that wants to come in here is paramount to our recovery as well as being tough on those who aren't going along with the lockdown.

I agree with many of your comments here. However it does seem that the Bulgarian workers actually are being quarantined if you take the statements made about them at face value anyway.

declanflynn · 19-04-2020 11:23AM

eagle eye wrote: »

They have been nothing short of horrendous and continue to be. They allowed 180+ Bulgarians in here in the middle of a lockdown without quarantine. I wonder how many others they let in?
Cheltenham and the thousands who went over without much objection from our government, our horse racing industry was allowed to continue travelling the country and put on race meetings for over a week after even the UK had stopped it.
The lockdown was far too late starting. The lack of supplies and general unpreparedness for an emergency situation is on them as well.
I could go on but it's pointless. What matters now us getting us in the best position to beat this thing. Quarantining anybody that wants to come in here is paramount to our recovery as well as being tough on those who aren't going along with the lockdown.

The virus was allowed to spread to a point where our health service could handle it, the government got it almost spot on, keeping the virus out was never a runner.

Kermit.de.frog · 19-04-2020 11:24AM

Belgium reports 230 new deaths. Exact same as yesterday.

eagle eye · 19-04-2020 11:25AM

Cork Boy 53 wrote:

I agree with many of your comments here. However it does seem that the Bulgarian workers actually are being quarantined if you take the statements made about them at face value anyway.

We cannot depend on third parties to do this, it has to be done by the State. We have to ensure its actually happening.

Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

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