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Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Is there a reason why Paul Murphy's hurling from the ditch should go here? Not seeing the logic at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    hmmm wrote: »
    The HSE has had regular videoconferences with several international experts, including Italy and China.

    It's not the WHO's job to tell local governments what to do.

    The government has just spent 200 million on getting in PPE, and moved on this well before most other countries did.

    We've done a great job so far. Could do better, but we have moved fast, and made fast decisions. In every huge crisis like this there will be things that could have been done better in hindsight, and you'll always have to deal with hurlers on the ditch telling you where you went wrong.


    It is their job. WHO did warn. Nobody listened. Report from September 2019.

    https://twitter.com/julianhitchcock/status/1248875158720466944?s=20


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    MD1990 wrote: »
    what countries apart from China have a policy of mask wearing when at all times outside or in a public area?

    Maybe this why the virus is not declining as qucikly in Italy & Spain as it did in China.

    Czech Rep does anyway and perhaps Austria, I think Singapore, Vietnam, South Korea do too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    joe_99 wrote: »
    You are obsessed with cases which are a function of testing. 12k extra deaths in Ecuador than usual yet they have less cases than us per million.
    Yes. It's a completely - completely - meaningless statistic when countries are doing different levels of testing.

    I'd be fairly certain that Iran will come out on top of every chart if cases and deaths were recorded correctly, they are the only country so far which had a completely out-of-control epidemic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    It is their job. WHO did warn. Nobody listened. Report from September 2019.

    https://twitter.com/julianhitchcock/status/1248875158720466944?s=20

    So they knew all about it that long ago :eek:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    MarkY91 wrote: »
    I know I'm not wrong. You obviously live in the city centre...I said local areas. Not town. Take a trip to virtually any park outside of the city centre...you're in for a surprise.

    Maybe but you saw a couple of parks...bit of a leap for you to then say virtually any park outside city centre would be packed.

    They're not city centre parks I've seen either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Guys apparently we are not doing that well as regards total cases per million. Was kind of shocked to see us as no 5 on the list.

    Someone sent me a link to a "really good" feature film length video on improving your immune system. Needless to say it remains unwatched. Is the credibility of YouTube videos proportional to their length? I'd look in on the CMO & Co to see what we are up to over this. Much more informative despite the dubious quality of some of the questioning.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    It is their job. WHO did warn. Nobody listened. Report from September 2019.
    It's their job agreed to warn governments, and tell them what they should do. It's our job to take the advice of WHO and apply it to our particular circumstances - which we did for the most part, and very well - in particular the advice in the current circumstances to act fast and not wait for full information.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭Iamabeliever


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    Excellent video, finally someone who understands how to look at numbers
    Ireland was number 5 as most infected country per million in Europe when this video was created. As of yesterday we are now at number 4

    Why don't you compare us to Iceland? They have terrible cases per million?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    fritzelly wrote: »
    So they knew all about it that long ago :eek:
    It's a generic warning about a pandemic which was inevitable. We've known about it for thousands of years.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭MD1990


    Remember we had officials from Ireland & the UK saying that if restrictions(lockdown we are in now) was brought in too soon people would struggle to stick with it.

    Well now they are saying there may be restrictions until a vaccine.

    Really should have started blocking all non essential flights back at the start of February
    If that happened with would be in great shape now to ease the lockdown & have people working


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Is there a reason why Paul Murphy's hurling from the ditch should go here? Not seeing the logic at all.

    You said who should the blame targets be this week. I posted as we should probably look at the public / private contract. Paul Murphy is an elected representative asking a question regarding the allocation of public funds during a national crisis.

    Demeaning to refer to it as hurling from the ditch.

    His question is "Why are we paying 4 times more that UK for private hospital beds?" It was never answered.

    Seems very expensive if not operated on a "non profit" basis. I'd say the suppliers of staff and equipment for hospitals are making a profit at those rates.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    s1ippy wrote: »
    They shout over my hedge at each other and I'm in and around my back garden almost all the time. If that's what you take from my post you're doing some serious wriggling to be in denial.

    Haha I wish i was in denial, I'm very dread-riddled. Just find it amusing trying to picture this scenario where the neighbours are all shouting to eachother 'I think I've got it!' and where you seem to be tracking the movements of each house occupant. But if it is all true I'd definitely be ratting them out to the Guards at this point.


  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    s1ippy wrote: »
    I can only speak to my own experience but I have exercised an ABUNDANCE of caution. I was absent from my teaching job the week before school was shut down because I have asthma. This turned out to be the correct decision days after the school closed, as a parent whose child socialises with children in my class put on her Instagram that she was awaiting test results. Turned out to be positive and a week and a half after the schools shut, so my SNAs and the parents of children in my class were dealing with their special needs children having brought coronavirus into their homes. I felt incredibly guilty that I had protected myself and not warned them, but how could I really have been sure? I would have sounded "hysterical".

    Now my work as a carer is only with one client because one died and I changed my schedule weeks ago. I'm their only help and none of the leave the house. I do shopping for them, I've been doing click and collect which is very nerve-wracking having to go into the shop... but they've freed up slots for carers and the elderly, so I do their shopping with the bits I get for my parents and I have a delivery on Tuesday which should cover three weeks, keeping some in sealed containers in our fridge until the following week which saves me having to do it weekly. I also bought a tonne of my own PPE so I'm using that as we're not allowed to use the agency's stuff when cleaning people's houses or feeding them, only for intimate personal care. Crazy.

    The reason it looks like community transmission is dropping off is because we are not testing in the community.

    I said it last night and I'll say it again, nine of the ten houses on my road have this infection, a total of around 30 people. The two of us living here are the only ones who aren't sick. Only five of these have a confirmed case. This morning as I was watering the plants, I heard choking from the elderly woman next door, who then collapsed in her garden. Her son rang the ambulance. Note that the son that called for the ambulance was in the house, but he isn't a member of her household. She lives with the youngest son and the daughter who is an air hostess who is a confirmed case. The air hostess is not self isolating and regularly goes out, the younger son (around 19) is also not at home this morning for some unknown reason.

    My brother is a contact tracer. He says the scope of who they regard as close contacts is staggeringly limited. Remember the week of our first case, the woman who went from Dublin to Northern Ireland? Nobody who was actually proximal to her on her trip would have been flagged or called, they're not going checking security footage and tracing to discover people's identities. They might have called the bus company but it's up to them then to take further action and they might not.

    The brother says he's literally just following a simple script with the confirmed infected person if they're conscious, "were you chatting with anyone during the week? Do you think you might have been closer to them than 2m?" not feckin CSI like some people think, they don't have the personnel or systems or efficiency within our system to actually do their due diligence.

    My view is that the figures are not stable. We have suppressed the peak, but we're not by any stretch of the imagination over the hill. In a week from now, we'll start seeing the consequences of people going away for the Easter holidays and the numbers will be much less manageable.

    Get comfortable anyway because there's absolutely no way things are going to be lifted in May.
    This is all purely anecdotal though.....

    I know 1 person total who has it, nobody else who has even had symptons out of my friends/family. Just as meaningless as judging it from 1 road in the country. Also keeping in mind how low the positive test rates are - the vast majority of people who think they have it, actually don't.

    And the poster who suggested it means more than the HSE figures? Have you lost the plot?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,095 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    Where is the recovery stats for Ireland fcuk all this misery porn.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    hmmm wrote: »
    It's a generic warning about a pandemic which was inevitable. We've known about it for thousands of years.

    Ha, not exactly generic.

    A rapidly spreading pandemic due to a lethal respiratory pathogen
    (whether naturally emergent or accidentally or deliberately released) poses additional preparedness requirements.


    509940.png

    https://apps.who.int/gpmb/assets/annual_report/GPMB_Annual_Report_English.pdf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,985 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Tell me what's wrong with the following idea?
    Nobody in unless they are willing to be and pay for quarantine for two weeks upon arrival in our country.
    Remain in lockdown until two weeks after we have zero new cases.
    You break the lockdown rules you get remanded in custody until the lockdown is over at which time your case will be heard and a suitable punishment given.

    I'm sure some will say Draconian but we are trying to save lives here. We need order, we need everybody, not nearly everybody, to be responsible.
    I think leadership that is not afraid to be tough is what we're missing.

    And let's stop looking at other countries and comparing. Look at countries that are doing very well and see how you can improve things yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭Iamabeliever


    Where is the recovery stats for Ireland fcuk all this misery porn.

    77 if your gullible enough


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    hmmm wrote: »
    It's their job agreed to warn governments, and tell them what they should do. It's our job to take the advice of WHO and apply it to our particular circumstances - which we did for the most part, and very well - in particular the advice in the current circumstances to act fast and not wait for full information.

    Are you living in some sort of alternative universe ?

    The HSE did most of the right things eventually but too late to control the virus.

    They certainly did not act fast or 'very well'.

    How else do you explain our terrible case numbers and deaths ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    You said who should the blame targets be this week. I posted as we should probably look at the public / private contract. Paul Murphy is an elected representative asking a question regarding the allocation of public funds during a national crisis.

    Demeaning to refer to it as hurling from the ditch.

    His question is "Why are we paying 4 times more that UK for private hospital beds?" It was never answered.

    Seems very expensive if not operated on a "non profit" basis. I'd say the suppliers of staff and equipment for hospitals are making a profit at those rates.
    He's well worth demeaning! Hmm, €5bn for payment support and he's in a snot over a tiny sum. Yet more tone deaf stuff. There'll be time for that review but Murphy was just itching to get on Twitter to have a pop. So, what exactly does the TD want anyone to do about it at this moment?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    77 if your gullible enough

    They're just the numbers for ICU discharges (now 90 since yesterday), thousands more will have recovered without being officially recorded.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,095 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    77 if your gullible enough
    It's not really known, that's ICU and hospital stuff. IMO it's better to hear people have come out of ICU. You'd expect they'll get round to some random antibody testing and guessing how many were affected.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,544 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    The Northern Ireland statistics body has published a revised death figure for NI which includes residential care homes. As at the week ending 12th of April they recorded 157 deaths from Covid, the public health agency had reported 118 excluding care homes.

    https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He's well worth demeaning! Hmm, €5bn for payment support and he's in snot over a tiny sum. Yet more tone deaf stuff. There'll be time for that review but Murphy was just itching to get on Twitter to have a pop. So, what exactly does the TD want anyone to do about it at this moment?

    I don't know? Nationalise them? Private model doesn't work during pandemic.
    As for a review. I would think the operators would like a post mortem on how someone could sign such a one sided contract.

    The government got a massive PR boost for "acquiring the private hospital use". Doesn't sound as good if we are paying 4 times as much as our nearest neighbour.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    My biggest concern is that I took the authorities at their word that "community growth is near zero now", but plenty on here are saying that this is because there is sweet fa testing.

    Who to believe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Tell me what's wrong with the following idea?
    Nobody in unless they are willing to be and pay for quarantine for two weeks upon arrival in our country.
    Remain in lockdown until two weeks after we have zero new cases.
    You break the lockdown rules you get remanded in custody until the lockdown is over at which time your case will be heard and a suitable punishment given.

    I'm sure some will say Draconian but we are trying to save lives here. We need order, we need everybody, not nearly everybody, to be responsible.
    I think leadership that is not afraid to be tough is what we're missing.

    And let's stop looking at other countries and comparing. Look at countries that are doing very well and see how you can improve things yourself.
    Big problem there is the huge financial cost to the State for unlawful arrest never mind the very strong likelihood you'd have rioting!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    AdamD wrote: »
    This is all purely anecdotal though.....

    I know 1 person total who has it, nobody else who has even had symptons out of my friends/family. Just as meaningless as judging it from 1 road in the country. Also keeping in mind how low the positive test rates are - the vast majority of people who think they have it, actually don't.
    Your experience is just as valid. I just think my road is a stark reminder what can happen when you or those you interact with have no respect for the measures.
    Mwengwe wrote: »
    Haha I wish i was in denial, I'm very dread-riddled. Just find it amusing trying to picture this scenario where the neighbours are all shouting to eachother 'I think I've got it!' and where you seem to be tracking the movements of each house occupant. But if it is all true I'd definitely be ratting them out to the Guards at this point.
    With the good weather we've all been outside in our gardens. They are mostly family so they communicate through our hedge and over their back wall with the surrounding family members who live in six of the surrounding houses and a few more on the next road over. Our road is a cul de sac, so very easy to track movements. We can hear their comings and goings in neighbouring houses because they all have dogs that go ballistic every time anyone comes onto the road, can be heard from every room in our house.

    I wish I weren't aware of their flouting of the rules. They'll probably know if we tell the Gardaí because we're the only house on the road who don't engage with them. I'd rather be a live cúnt than a polite corpse. Although the older woman next door was taken to hospital by ambulance this morning so the relevant authorities will likely be seeing the outcome of their flaunting of the rules in coming days if they're being hospitalised now.

    My partner is on friendly terms with a couple with young kids who live at the end of the road. They are not related to the families and she texted yesterday to say that her family have a confirmed case and so does the elderly gent next door to them who also isn't a relative of the six houses.

    I really believe and hope that this scenario is not indicative of the wider population but when this sh!t started happening in Wuhan they sealed people into their homes, welding the doors shut. Yet here they're free to head to work, the shops etc and that's what they're doing, and I would argue that even a few situations like this are what's going to cause Ireland to be overcome by cases.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    I have to disagree. Per million is a meaningless comparison until the pandemic has burned itself out in all the countries being compared. It will take more time to spread through a larger population.

    Per million population is not a valid way to compare countries at this point in time, for a number of reasons.

    Different countries are using different criteria for diagnosing CiViD-19, some use differential diagnosis based on symptoms, others on diagnostic test results; some countries are only counting diagnosed hospital deaths and don't include nursing home or home deaths.

    Some countries record cause of death differently e.g. one country might record cause of death as pneumonia or heart failure with CoViD-19 secondary whereas another would record the cause of death as CoViD-19 with pneumonia or heart failure secondary.

    Less developed countries may not even have the capability to collect reliable statistics.

    Even if all countries being compared were using the same diagnostic criteria and recording cause of death in exactly the same way it still wouldn't be valid to compare per population until after the pandemic had ended in all countries being compared.

    If one person, on average infects four others, the virus will spread from 1 to 4, 16, 64, 256, 1024, 4096, etc... the same in a country of 5 million as a country of 50 million. It will take longer to spread to the same % population in a more populous country. Until the virus has spread to the majority of people in both, a per population comparison will always make the less populous country's stats appear to be worse.

    The best measure during the pandemic is the rate of spread.

    Since CoViD-19 seems to be asymptomatic or only mildly symptomatic in a significant percentage of cases even the rate of spread has to be inferred from mortality, ICU and hospital admission rates making comparisons between countries with different access to healthcare difficult.

    At the moment the best measures are the spread or replication rate and ability of a country's healthcare infrastructure to cope. On both counts we appear to be coping relatively well and heading in the right direction.


    Number of cases per Million is a very valid metrics to use for comparison with other European countries. It tells you where we stand in terms of infection
    it's not meant to make a comment about death rate or speed of infection, it's just a picture of where we are.

    Definitely we are not ready to relax the restrictions


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I don't know? Nationalise them? Private model doesn't work during pandemic.
    As for a review. I would think the operators would like a post mortem on how someone could sign such a one sided contract.

    The government got a massive PR boost for "acquiring the private hospital use". Doesn't sound as good if we are paying 4 times as much as our nearest neighbour.
    This is just not the right time for any of this. A contract was agreed in an extremely short time out of necessity. Who knows what terms were involved or why but crucially they did deliver an instant larger health system.


This discussion has been closed.
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