The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

theological · 15-04-2020 02:56PM

We've already been warned by a mod about dragging Brexit into the thread.

It'd be super if we could actually chat about the facts. On the care home numbers I think the medical advisors have explained why the care home figures are not included in the daily numbers and that the UK isn't alone in this.

Is there anything else of note or of substance beyond empty speculation?

A Dub in Glasgo · 15-04-2020 02:57PM

Aegir wrote: »

All if it.

You are basically saying that Sturgeon put popularity over people’s lives.

But then blamed “them” because you heard a rumor that “they” would penalize Scotland for going it alone.

It would very easy for EU and UK to be interchanged there.

No I am saying Scotland is not an independent country and is part of the UK therefore legally must work within the framework of the UK. There are powers that are devolved from Westminster and local health is one of them. However, borrowing money and propping up the economy is not devolved. The SG gets a grant from Westminster to manage within the devolved portfolio therefore Scotland has to follow the UK on the choices the UK makes because it does not have the power or capability to do strategic things. The UK Govt could legislate to remove devolution tomorrow if it so wished

It is clear that the advisors to the SG are/were of the same opinion as the UK Govt advisors and even if they offered differing opinion, it would not matter to the UK Govt

You, on the otherhand, seem to insist that Scotland is independent and could do anything it wants - that is patently not true

If you want to dress that up as some sort of Brexiteer argument then knock yourself out with it

sydthebeat · 15-04-2020 03:03PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Car crash.

completely out of her depth there....
and im talking about being interviewed and challenged

Joe_ Public · 15-04-2020 03:09PM

theological wrote: »

We've already been warned by a mod about dragging Brexit into the thread.

It'd be super if we could actually chat about the facts. On the care home numbers I think the medical advisors have explained why the care home figures are not included in the daily numbers and that the UK isn't alone in this.

Is there anything else of note or of substance beyond empty speculation?

I know you dont like questions unless you can answer with another question but I'm going to have a bash anyway.

Why is it only today they've decided to start testing care home residents and staff? Why not before now when people in the industry were begging for help and warning a crisis was developing?

Why today?

Donald Trump · 15-04-2020 03:10PM

theological wrote: »

We've already been warned by a mod about dragging Brexit into the thread.

It'd be super if we could actually chat about the facts. On the care home numbers I think the medical advisors have explained why the care home figures are not included in the daily numbers and that the UK isn't alone in this.

Is there anything else of note or of substance beyond empty speculation?

Simply pointing out that the UK cannot plausibly try to blame the EU for its corona failings is nothing to do with the B word. The argument would be the same now regardless of the outcome or status of that particular B decision or process

blinding · 15-04-2020 03:14PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I know you dont like questions unless you can answer with another question but I'm going to have a bash anyway.

Why is it only today they've decided to start testing care home residents and staff? Why not before now when people in the industry were begging for help and warning a crisis was developing?

Why today?

Were the reliable least available ? Was a system in place to get reliable tests and Laboratries capable of doing this testing to the required standard ? ?

Joe_ Public · 15-04-2020 03:19PM

blinding wrote: »

Were the reliable least available ? Was a system in place to get reliable tests and Laboratries capable of doing this testing to the required standard ? ?

If it's because they completely fcked up the testing from the start, then how about saying so? They tell us they are doing alright and Michael Goves family have no bother getting tested, so others in need should be able to get tested too.

Enzokk · 15-04-2020 03:20PM

theological wrote: »

We've already been warned by a mod about dragging Brexit into the thread.

It'd be super if we could actually chat about the facts. On the care home numbers I think the medical advisors have explained why the care home figures are not included in the daily numbers and that the UK isn't alone in this.

Is there anything else of note or of substance beyond empty speculation?

The explanation on why the numbers aren't included is a convenient excuse. We have been told it is difficult to compare Ireland and the UK as it is so much bigger, but compare France and Germany which does include deaths in their care homes figures and they have a comparable population and more beds for the elderly in nursing homes, then it all falls apart.

More facts, the UK allowed elderly patients to be discharged from hospital and sent back to social care homes without confirmation they were not infected by the coronavirus.

https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1250326413460140033?s=20

The consequences of this decision will never be known because the testing wasn't done. So I guess we cannot speculate on that which is the way some prefer it I guess.

McGiver · 15-04-2020 03:26PM

OK, Rob. Can you respond to this? And that is with likely underreported UK numbers.

Deaths per capita:
UK - 0.195 per 1000
Germany - 0.042 per 1000
Ireland - 0.083 per 1000

Let's compare apples with apples.

EDIT: Ireland added just for context and figures updated as per today's death numbers.

robinph · 15-04-2020 03:26PM

A further 761 UK deaths reported today.

Had expected a bigger number today after the long weekend and the numbers then sorting themselves out after that. It's been around the 700 mark for several days now.

Leroy42 · 15-04-2020 03:26PM

blinding wrote: »

Were the reliable least available ? Was a system in place to get reliable tests and Laboratries capable of doing this testing to the required standard ? ?

But wouldn't that be true of the testing currently being done? It is the same test afterall.

Seth Brundle · 15-04-2020 03:29PM

Great news everyone...

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1250108207235837953

Joe_ Public · 15-04-2020 03:31PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

But wouldn't that be true of the testing currently being done? It is the same test afterall.

That todays announcement came on the back of two days relentless coverage on sky and C4 as well as front page headlines on the Daily Mail is most likely just an amazing coincidence. The truth is the scientists concluded it had now become "the right thing to do."

RobMc59 · 15-04-2020 03:32PM

robinph wrote: »

A further 761 UK deaths reported today.

Had expected a bigger number today after the long weekend and the numbers then sorting themselves out after that. It's been around the 700 mark for several days now.

Hold tight and watch this space!.Someone will be along with some anecdotal conspiracy theories as to why the UK is 'cooking the books' about the figures very soon...

BonnieSituation · 15-04-2020 03:38PM

They haven't been counting care home deaths.

Isn't that what people have been going on about for days and that the assumption is that the numbers, as seems to have been borne out by the Scottish numbers, are absolutely next to useless and "cooked".

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-04-2020 03:43PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Hold tight and watch this space!.Someone will be along with some anecdotal conspiracy theories as to why the UK is 'cooking the books' about the figures very soon...

It didn't take long :pac:

Hintel · 15-04-2020 03:43PM

Memnoch wrote: »

Bit of a bombshell mentioned in quite a nondescript manner in a sky news article today.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-the-daily-death-figures-dont-reveal-the-full-picture-11973146

So even if the GPs are reporting suspected coronavirus on death certificates it would seem they are now being excluded in the official ONS count of Covid 19 deaths whereas before they were being included.

Is this change of direction a directive from the government. This would explain why there are so many thousands of “excess deaths” that are unexplained. And we already know that the government have not been testing outside of hospitals.

Matt Hancock is saying they will start testing now but how many thousands have already lost their lives and will not even be counted? And according to his tweet linked above, he is talking about testing people going from hospital into care homes. But what about residents in care homes that are symptomatic?

This government continues to lie and obfuscate.

The stats are all over the place because of missing data

blinding · 15-04-2020 03:44PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Great news everyone...

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1250108207235837953

Did Dominic take one for Herd ?

At least he is not a hypocrite ! ( to quote Norm McDonald , Canadian / American Comedian )

RobMc59 · 15-04-2020 03:49PM

McGiver wrote: »

OK, Rob. Can you respond to this? And that is with likely underreported UK numbers.

Deaths per capita:
UK - 0.195 per 1000
Germany - 0.042 per 1000
Ireland - 0.083 per 1000

Let's compare apples with apples.

EDIT: Ireland added just for context and figures updated as per today's death numbers.

I assume you are aiming this at me-do you consider comparing Britain with Ireland and Germany a fair comparison?
Wouldn't the major European nations be a more realistic choice-ie:France,Germany,Spain, Italy and UK?

robinph · 15-04-2020 03:51PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They haven't been counting care home deaths.

Isn't that what people have been going on about for days and that the assumption is that the numbers, as seems to have been borne out by the Scottish numbers, are absolutely next to useless and "cooked".

But as far as comparing like with like the number of deaths recorded over the four day weekend, where there is acknowledged errors in the counting, they are remaining stable.

If it is that over the weekends only 3/4 hospitals report, then as long as that is constant then the numbers are still showing a valid trend just as much as the Wednesday - Saturday reporting on other weeks are.

Donald Trump · 15-04-2020 03:56PM

robinph wrote: »

But as far as comparing like with like the number of deaths recorded over the four day weekend, where there is acknowledged errors in the counting, they are remaining stable.

If it is that over the weekends only 3/4 hospitals report, then as long as that is constant then the numbers are still showing a valid trend just as much as the Wednesday - Saturday reporting on other weeks are.

We had someone else on this thread say the same thing a week or so ago about the Mondays numbers. Then we had a big jump the next day

McGiver · 15-04-2020 03:56PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I assume you are aiming this at me-do you consider comparing Britain with Ireland and Germany a fair comparison?
Wouldn't the major European nations be a more realistic choice-ie:France,Germany,Spain, Italy and UK?

Ireland was just for context.

Why France, why Italy and why Spain? Why not Germany? Why would you compare with literally the worst results in whole Europe?

Italy and Spain are way ahead of the curve, UK is quite behind as Germany. Italy and Spain are not a good benchmark at the moment. Hence it makes sense to compare with Germany.

Once it's all done then final figures can be compared across the whole spectrum.

kyote00 · 15-04-2020 03:59PM

Sky news are doing a great jobing reporting on Italy, Spain and New Orleans just now.... all of whom had lower numbers of deaths today.

They have also adapted the reporting number to "deaths of patients who tested positive" ..... but it you die and were not tested then not reported....

Also, the irony of Boris thanking two foreign nurses for saving his life seems lost on them

The surprise expressed when reporting that the death rate is higher for those in lower socio-economic groups - when same has been reported for decades by WHO, UNHCR

If hard to look on from the side and be silent, as the UK, Ireland and EU are tightly bound together due to covid-19 --> coordinated healthcare policy is needed but won't happen.

Prediction: there will be ongoing outbreaks of covid-19 for the next 2-3 years, causing closing down of cities and regions from time to time - until such time as a vaccine is ready and the population has been innoculated. Ireland, UK and EU Pigs economies will tank as a result

robinph · 15-04-2020 04:00PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

We had someone else on this thread say the same thing a week or so ago about the Mondays numbers. Then we had a big jump the next day

Today is equivalent of a normal Tuesday as far as the reporting of numbers goes, where we've previously had a jump in numbers.

theological · 15-04-2020 04:05PM

McGiver wrote: »

OK, Rob. Can you respond to this? And that is with likely underreported UK numbers.

Deaths per capita:
UK - 0.195 per 1000
Germany - 0.042 per 1000
Ireland - 0.083 per 1000

Let's compare apples with apples.

EDIT: Ireland added just for context and figures updated as per today's death numbers.

Helpfully that graph shows you how far countries are behind eachother also. It's good news that the death rate on that graph seems to be slowing down.

Leroy42 · 15-04-2020 04:11PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Hold tight and watch this space!.Someone will be along with some anecdotal conspiracy theories as to why the UK is 'cooking the books' about the figures very soon...

Not conspiracy theories, the UK have admitted that they are not taking account of all the numbers because it is difficult to add up numbers from care homes (apparently).

So no need for any conspiracy, it is a fact that the numbers do not represent the actual.

McGiver · 15-04-2020 04:27PM

theological wrote: »

Helpfully that graph shows you how far countries are behind eachother also. It's good news that the death rate on that graph seems to be slowing down.

Not really. The Y-Axis is logarithmic.
Any comment on why Germany is several leagues better?

theological · 15-04-2020 04:31PM

McGiver wrote: »

Not really. The Y-Axis is logarithmic.
Any comment on why Germany is several leagues better?

Germany might have handled this better. There'll be lots to learn when this is over.

BonnieSituation · 15-04-2020 04:31PM

robinph wrote: »

But as far as comparing like with like the number of deaths recorded over the four day weekend, where there is acknowledged errors in the counting, they are remaining stable.

If it is that over the weekends only 3/4 hospitals report, then as long as that is constant then the numbers are still showing a valid trend just as much as the Wednesday - Saturday reporting on other weeks are.

As it might be. And it is something to be cautiously welcomed I guess. But we can't really really know as you can't trust anything coming from a Tory govt as inept as this.

Seth Brundle · 15-04-2020 04:36PM

theological wrote: »

Germany might have handled this better. There'll be lots to learn when this is over.

Might?
The numbers definitley indicate this is the case.
The fact that the UK is so unprepared (despite everyone getting the same notifications) that they had to accept ventilators from the German army must surely stick in the throats of so many English.
I think the British will need to learn a lot after this. I honestly don't think they will learn a single thing however!

The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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