The Chinese Big Lie

bob mcbob · 15-04-2020 01:19PM

FVP3 wrote: »

Eh, no it didn't. Its clearly some instagram post of some American. Africans like China in general.

I don't know but he is probably wrong. As I said the before the only argument against the Chinese figures is an argument to incredulity. Which is exactly what we get for all countries people don't like, or are doing ok. Nobody here trusted the German figures. We all accept the US figures though.

All quotes from one article and one member. In fact the official response from the W.H.O is that China acted promptly. By either Dec 31st or Jan 12th, is long before there was any outbreak in the West.

FFS, what does that even mean. The W.H.O and China told the world about the Corona Virus well before there was a known case in the west. Even if you think Jan 12 was tardy in terms of sequencing the genome, it was still enough time for the west to act. And it seems pretty fast to me. As far I as know SARS took months to sequence.

Well, yes, unless you are pro-genocide and continuous wars and destruction the US is clearly a nasty country.

Who is deflecting now!

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 01:23PM

FVP3 wrote: »

pfft, so that's the source. One guy on instagram saying that he the police said to not to serve foreigners. Particularly black people. This becomes world news.

And what's that - an Instagram photo of a facebook page?

Sheeple be Sheeple.

It's on linkedin. The comments are interesting as some point out this isn't the case in Beijing, Shenyang and other cities. It is Guangzhou and it is based on the africans haivng a large community there that is illegal and therefore not taking part in the green heath code and passport scheme coupled with the rise of community transmissions there. I think the basics here still revolves around their legal status and following the new rules on showing you are Covid19 free.

The bluntness the local Chinese business have gone about this has a lot to be desired and is no doubt riddled with ignorance.

15-04-2020 01:25PM

archer22 wrote: »

To Klaz, you say enforcing laws is the problem and I agree with there..but when they set their minds to enforcing laws it gets done and in a gloves off manner.

Sometimes, and it depends both, on the particular law, and who it applies to.

The PRC has a healthy respect for the poor... because that's how Mao toppled the nationalists. The wet markets affect the poor more than anyone else, and there is nothing currently to replace them. Alternatives are either impractical due to location, or too costly. Enforcing the laws across all of China on the poor would generate a serious amount of unrest. They're not going to do it. Simple as that.

For example they don't have much of a drug problem compared to other countries, the firing squads have seen to that.

Rubbish. China has a massive drug problem. It's just kept out of the media as much as possible. There are villages and whole towns where you'll see most of the population just laying around fcuked up, because there's no jobs, and so nothing for them to do. Drugs are a huge problem too with the new middle class, and the rich in the cities.

I'd be a fairly comfortable drug user. I dabbled, and explored most of the less serious drugs when I was younger. I'm still a stoner... and I've rarely see a country that has such a variety of drugs available...

The punishments are harsh, but it's an incredibly corrupt country. It's relatively easy to stay off the radar.

Thats one of the advantages of a totalitarian system...anything thats seen as national sabotage can be ruthlessly destroyed.

I disagree. That's the western perception, and mostly looks at the way China was in the 50s/60s. Since tiananmen square, the party has sought to limit it's use of force on it's own people... except when it's a localised issue, and therefore not of concern to the majority.

You're talking about changes that would affect most of the population.

And the viruses coming from the wildlife trade surely now fit that criteria.

Maybe. The Chinese have a very different perspective about the impact of lives being lost, than westerners.

Also China is more bothered about it's international image than you seem to think, persuasion from its trading partners around the world will have a positive effect on this issue.

Threats and insults though will have the opposite effect.

Nope. Don't buy it. Both Chinese culture, and their own internal publications show a lack of concern about foreign opinions. If anything, those publications and the media force them not to accept any pressure from foreign influences. Foreign trade partners come to China because they want something from China. Few agreements were made from China initiating the talks themselves.

But i agree. Threats will achieve nothing except to push China into an aggressive stance.

Insults? They're normal. I've said it before. China remembers... whereas Westerners tend to forget things pretty quickly. There is no shortage of articles or statements which are insulting from a Chinese perspective.. and they remember them all.

12trackmind · 15-04-2020 01:26PM

FVP3 wrote: »

Well, yes, unless you are pro-genocide and continuous wars and destruction the US is clearly a nasty country.

I fear I'm wasting my time here, but it's not either/or.

It's possible that both the U.S. and China are global villains, on this matter and on many others.

Well done on recognizing the villiany of the U.S.

Not so well done on rushing into the arms of another villian as a result... it reveals that partizanship is the source of your posts and that ethics and principles come a distant second.

Set yourself free poster... and slam all villains down, regardless of their point of origin.

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 01:27PM

12trackmind wrote: »

I fear I'm wasting my time here, but it's not either/or.

It's possible that both the U.S. and China are global villains, on this matter and on many others.

Well done on recognizing the villiany of the U.S.

Not so well done on rushing into the arms of another villian as a result... it reveals that partizanship is the source of your posts and that ethics and principles come a distant second.

Set yourself free poster... and slam all villains down, regardless of their point of origin.

Agree, but target the right areas

FVP3 · 15-04-2020 01:27PM

bob mcbob wrote: »

Stuff in bold - drivel. Provide some independent facts to confirm your b***s**t statements -

- Germany in recession for the last few years
- their GDP has been below 0%
- China is a big importer now

Welcome to your future, when this is over

Germany wasn't in recession but it skirted recession twice. Recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth but Germany had one of each and returned to growth after. The reason was reduced exports to China.

China is a big importer. I am sure we will continue to sell them food amongst others.

https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/CHN/Year/LTST/Summarytext

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/uk-spy-agencies-urge-china-rethink-once-covid-19-crisis-is-over

The new Cold War is about to start

If we listen to the people who gave us the Iraq war, the Steele dossier, and all of the other clown shows, yes. However the UK spies are basically adjuncts of the US agencies, doing their dirty work for them over the years. The UK is not in the EU, and the EU attitude to China is fairly accomdating. Different countries in Europe are aligning to the BRI initiative.

Oh yes sorry, I forgot to add that China is desperate to import meat from anywhere because just before Covid, they had another epidemic.
This time of African Swine flu. This is estimated to have killed off one third of all pigs in China.

Two epidemic in one year - are the CCP unlucky or incompetent?

Actually they took the action to kill of the pigs. Bit odd blaming the CCP for a disease that originated in Africa.

Anyway China is on the way to being self sufficient in food, albeit in the staples ( which isnt meat).

FVP3 · 15-04-2020 01:32PM

As for a trade war, the US is threatening one against the EU, or at least Germany. Typical bully boy tactics when you start to lose out because your own products are no good.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/21/china-tariff-deal-was-easy-compared-to-eus-bazooka-proof-trade-walls.html

America’s European friends and allies, and their media, are falling over each other in pouring scorn on Washington for literally anything. They are now seething with anger about the World Trade Organisation’s arbitration authorizing American countervailing trade tariffs for the EU’s illicit aircraft manufacturing subsidies. And they apparently can’t wait to retaliate with their own tariffs on U.S. goods, in addition to levying billions of euro fines on IT giants in the U.S.

One of those usual family quarrels? You couldn’t be more wrong, if that’s what you think.

Europe’s $146.7 billion trade surplus with the U.S. in the first eight months of this year — an 11.3% increase from the same period of 2018 — has deep and enduring political and institutional roots.

This is typical of the kind of venomous hatred that ugly country produces about pretty much any competitor.

bob mcbob · 15-04-2020 01:39PM

FVP3 wrote: »

Germany wasn't in recession but it skirted recession twice. Recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth but Germany had one of each and returned to growth after. The reason was reduced imports from China.

China is a big importer. I am sure we will continue to sell them food amongst others.

https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/CHN/Year/LTST/Summarytext

If we listen to the people who gave us the Iraq war, the Steele dossier, and all of the other clown shows, yes. However the UK spies are basically adjuncts of the US agencies, doing their dirty work for them over the years. The UK is not in the EU, and the EU attitude to China is fairly accomdating. Different countries in Europe are aligning to the BRI initiative.

Actually they took the action to kill of the pigs. Bit odd blaming the CCP for a disease that originated in Africa.

Anyway China is on the way to being self sufficient in food, albeit in the staples ( which isnt meat).

Ok so your first statements were BS.

Then on to nasty America

Then deflection - it is called African Swine Flu because it has originated in Africa and has been around for.a while. It is not where it came from but how you manage it when it gets to your country.

Also using your logic, could we blame the CCP for a virus that emerged in say Wuhan?

15-04-2020 01:40PM

bob mcbob wrote: »

Just done - made a couple of points and am waiting on your response.

My response on what? You posted about the numbers being inaccurate or outright lies. I've never suggested that China wasn't lying about it's numbers and on a variety of threads, I've actually said that they were.

Beyond that, my objection was to your dismissal of his post (Would still love to see the CCP playbook). You haven't shown how the US media is a beacon of truth and the reasons why we shouldn't suspect it/they being a mouthpiece for a US campaign of shifting blame. After all, Iraq is a perfect example of the government using both official and media sources to lie to the whole world... successfully, I might add, for a long time.

The US government response to Covid was negligent since they're the ones with the foremost intelligence services in the world with a particular focus on China as it's biggest threat. And that's assuming that they wouldn't have needed to use the more conventional information available to everyone else... which highlighted the danger of the virus in late January. I know, because I returned from China, towards the end of January, with the seriousness of the virus spreading across the media. Official sources would have had the news earlier than the general media.

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 01:40PM

Daily Mail is drumming up the usual buy saying there was a delay from China of, wait for it, 6 DAYS! from the 14th to the 20th of January.

https://ibb.co/HB51N0T Problem was it was global knowledge well before that.

This whole narrative is falling apart fast.

FVP3 · 15-04-2020 01:41PM

12trackmind wrote: »

I fear I'm wasting my time here, but it's not either/or.

It's possible that both the U.S. and China are global villains, on this matter and on many others.

Well done on recognizing the villiany of the U.S.

Not so well done on rushing into the arms of another villian as a result... it reveals that partizanship is the source of your posts and that ethics and principles come a distant second.

Set yourself free poster... and slam all villains down, regardless of their point of origin.

Nonsense, I am opposed to the US for the reasons I have given. I don't care about the internal affairs of the Chinese and nor do the US apologists, the US uses "human rights" to demonise any country it opposes, while still allied to the crucifiers of Riyadh. It's been the same playbook since 2001.

Saddam, bad. Assad, bad. Iran, bad. Chavez bad. Putin, bad.

None were bad when on the side of the US, though. The Yeltsin supported looters of 1990s russia were heroes. Assad met the Queen with Blair where he was pro US imperialism.

I have no inclination to live in China, or defend its internal system, but it's pretty clear to me that if this virus originated in a pro US country, there would no talk about the originating country being responsible for deaths elsewhere. I mean bob just blamed China for a pig virus that originated in Africa. The clue was in the name.

So China is responsible for a virus that originated in Africa, when it gets to China; and for a virus that originates in China when it gets to the US.

Ill probably open a thread in politics about why Europe needs to decouple from the US.

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 01:42PM

FVP3 wrote: »

Nonsense, I am opposed to the US for the reasons I have given. I don't care about the internal affairs of the Chinese and nor do the US apologists, the US uses "human rights" to demonise any country it opposes, while still allied to the crucifiers of Riyadh. It's been the same playbook since 2001.

Saddam, bad. Assad, bad. Iran, bad. Chavez bad. Putin, bad.

None were bad when on the side of the US, though. The Yeltsin supported looters of 1990s russia were heroes. Assad met the Queen with Blair where he was pro US imperialism.

I have no inclination to live in China, or defend its internal system, but it's pretty clear to me that if this virus originated in a pro US country, there would no talk about the originating country being responsible for deaths elsewhere. I mean bob just blamed China for a pig virus that originated in Africa. The clue was in the name.

So China is responsible for a virus that originated in Africa, when it gets to China; and for a virus that originates in China when it gets to the US.

Ill probably open a thread in politics about why Europe needs to decouple from the US.

Thought Swine Flu was from the US, same as AIDS

bob mcbob · 15-04-2020 01:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

My response on what? You posted about the numbers being inaccurate or outright lies. I've never suggested that China wasn't lying about it's numbers and on a variety of threads, I've actually said that they were.

Beyond that, my objection was to your dismissal of his post (Would still love to see the CCP playbook). You haven't shown how the US media is a beacon of truth and the reasons why we shouldn't suspect it/they being a mouthpiece for a US campaign of shifting blame. After all, Iraq is a perfect example of the government using both official and media sources to lie to the whole world... successfully, I might add, for a long time.

The US government response to Covid was negligent since they're the ones with the foremost intelligence services in the world with a particular focus on China as it's biggest threat. And that's assuming that they wouldn't have needed to use the more conventional information available to everyone else... which highlighted the danger of the virus in late January. I know, because I returned from China, towards the end of January, with the seriousness of the virus spreading across the media. Official sources would have had the news earlier than the general media.

Oh I also made other points but hey lets deflect on western media and the Iraq war.

15-04-2020 01:50PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Thought Swine Flu was from the US, same as AIDS

AIDS originated in Africa.

I find the labeling of diseases to be rather political TBH. People talk about Ebola or AIDS but they don't assign a country name to them.... but here comes the China virus..

15-04-2020 01:51PM

bob mcbob wrote: »

Oh I also made other points but hey lets deflect on western media and the Iraq war.

You asked for my response... but your other points weren't related to what I objected to.. care to look back and refresh your memory?

silverharp · 15-04-2020 01:51PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Daily Mail is drumming up the usual buy saying there was a delay from China of, wait for it, 6 DAYS! from the 14th to the 20th of January.

https://ibb.co/HB51N0T Problem was it was global knowledge well before that.

This whole narrative is falling apart fast.

so what is this about?

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1250371847972990976

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 02:00PM

silverharp wrote: »

so what is this about?

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1250371847972990976

31/12/19 Email

11/01/20 Sir Jeremy James Farrar OBE FRCP FRS FMedSci on Twitter celebrating the round the clock work in sharing the genome over the previous "few weeks".

YOu are doing nothing but reinforcing the view the action was swift.

If you really do want to blame China for something you will have to try another angle. Try Climate Change I suggest, but avoid any per capita argument on carbon footprint (Tip).

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 02:04PM

I wouldnt normally give a hoot about China and would be the first to bash the CPC but the arguments here on this are so flimsy and pathetic that you can't help but defending their postion on much of this. I just found this whole debate has evolved and the more people try to go out of their way to find some smoking gun the more ridiculous it starting to look.

Wibbs · 15-04-2020 02:08PM

FVP3 wrote: »

Wibbs, the world's expert on China from the comfort of his living room.

Where are you posting your "expert" opinions from; your bedroom? Oh and maybe you might point out where I was incorrect.

The problem with listening to the propaganda from a country where 100M people believe in the rapture and the rest believe that the world should basically look like the US, is that these nutcases are happy to make the world burn to get their way. Even more so than it is already, in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Venezuela, Bolivia and more. Belligerence against Russia and China. Hatred of Europe. A vile country. They will nuke the world if they could.

We get it; you hate the Yanks and western nations are crap in general, though your partner in bias Crypto goes further in the latter. The Chinese are a great bunch of lads altogether of course. Biased much?

However. Me. Previously.

Wibbs wrote: »

TBH K I trust some US "sources" just as much as Chinese "sources" on a lot of fronts. The war of words has kicked off in a big way. Maybe not nearly as hamfisted a way as the Chinese government operate their propaganda, but even a free press can be nudged in one direction or the other.

Wibbs wrote: »

Neither of them TBH S. Both cool places to visit and I've met few enough dickheads from either nation, but living there? If there was zero language barrier I've personally find it hard enough to split the difference between the US and China. There are certainly places in China I'd pick over some places in the US. I'd always pick most places in Europe than either of them.

Wibbs wrote: »

You do know the Chinese government are up to exactly the same thing. Neither of them are to trusted as far as you could throw Trump or Xi. The big difference is Americans and the rest of the world can question Trump's shenanigans a lot more openly than the Chinese can.

Oh and I think Trump is a snake oil salesman and athundering dickhead, the last gasp for a large proportion of Americans who realise the American Dream(tm) is mostly bollocks, but still need to believe. And look I can say that. I can even go and say that on a US site. Could I say Xi was a thundering dickhead on a Chinese site? How long would that opinion last?

Hell, I don't even blame the WHO for what's transpired, or at least can see why it may have transpired the way it did.

Wibbs wrote: »

For me what has been shown with the WHO is that because they've actually feck all power they're very careful politically to the point of being a "stooge" for everyone when it suits or how the wind blows. They've pussyfooted at times with China, the UK and the US. Never mind their advice has been dubious more than once and they took their sweet time pulling their finger out. International travel for one.

Note and quite unlike your all too obvious bias near to the point of farce, I've little enough time for either the US or China on a few points and would prefer in an ideal world that Europe had less negative exposure to either of them with it.

archer22 · 15-04-2020 02:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sometimes, and it depends both, on the particular law, and who it applies to.

The PRC has a healthy respect for the poor... because that's how Mao toppled the nationalists. The wet markets affect the poor more than anyone else, and there is nothing currently to replace them. Alternatives are either impractical due to location, or too costly. Enforcing the laws across all of China on the poor would generate a serious amount of unrest. They're not going to do it. Simple as that.

Rubbish. China has a massive drug problem. It's just kept out of the media as much as possible. There are villages and whole towns where you'll see most of the population just laying around fcuked up, because there's no jobs, and so nothing for them to do. Drugs are a huge problem too with the new middle class, and the rich in the cities.

I'd be a fairly comfortable drug user. I dabbled, and explored most of the less serious drugs when I was younger. I'm still a stoner... and I've rarely see a country that has such a variety of drugs available...

The punishments are harsh, but it's an incredibly corrupt country. It's relatively easy to stay off the radar.

I disagree. That's the western perception, and mostly looks at the way China was in the 50s/60s. Since tiananmen square, the party has sought to limit it's use of force on it's own people... except when it's a localised issue, and therefore not of concern to the majority.

You're talking about changes that would affect most of the population.

Maybe. The Chinese have a very different perspective about the impact of lives being lost, than westerners.

Nope. Don't buy it. Both Chinese culture, and their own internal publications show a lack of concern about foreign opinions. If anything, those publications and the media force them not to accept any pressure from foreign influences. Foreign trade partners come to China because they want something from China. Few agreements were made from China initiating the talks themselves.

But i agree. Threats will achieve nothing except to push China into an aggressive stance.

Insults? They're normal. I've said it before. China remembers... whereas Westerners tend to forget things pretty quickly. There is no shortage of articles or statements which are insulting from a Chinese perspective.. and they remember them all.

Well you certainly paint a pretty hopeless picture of China.
Regarding wet markets (they have that name because of the melt from the preservative ice) they are all over east/ south east Asia and the ones I have been in just sold vegetables, fish, eggs etc and yes a lot of their customers are the poor.
Its not the wet markets themselves that are the problem,it's the ones in China where some vendors are selling wildlife and the market for most of their wares are not for the poor...I mean they are not paying poachers in Africa to catch Pangolins and smugglers to ship them to China so their meat can be sold at Aldi type prices at the markets.

I have a friend in customs at Manila airport in the Philippines who told me one of the things they watch for is smugglers destined for Hong Kong with their suitcases full of Philippine reptiles wrapped in socks and packed in their suitcases...those creatures are destined for the mainland Chinese markets and they are not going to all that effort, risk and cost to provide cheap food for the
poor in China thats for sure!

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 02:22PM

archer22 wrote: »

Well you certainly paint a pretty hopeless picture of China.
Regarding wet markets (they have that name because of the melt from the preservative ice) they are all over east/ south east Asia and the ones I have been in just sold vegetables, fish, eggs etc and yes a lot of their customers are the poor.
Its not the wet markets themselves that are the problem,it's the ones in China where some vendors are selling wildlife and the market for most of their wares are not for the poor...I mean they are not paying poachers in Africa to catch Pangolins and smugglers to ship them to China so their meat can be sold at Aldi type prices at the markets.

I have a friend in customs at Manila airport in the Philippines who told me one of the things they watch for is smugglers destined for Hong Kong with their suitcases full of Philippine reptiles wrapped in socks and packed in their suitcases...those creatures are destined for the mainland Chinese markets and they are not going to all that effort, risk and cost to provide cheap food for the
poor in China thats for sure!

Chicken is Cheap, I like Chicken

alwald · 15-04-2020 02:28PM

People can argue that there are conspiracy theories out there blaming the Chinese government, that there is an agenda against the CCP by some western countries, and I can go on and on, but what people can't and shouldn't argue with is the fishy handling of C-19 by the CCP including silencing doctors/scientists. CCP has so much to answer for about their lack of transparency from the beginning and should therefore answer to this in an international court with a full investigation.

2u2me · 15-04-2020 02:34PM

bob mcbob wrote: »

Ok see link on how South Korea beat the virus - they (like Taiwan) ignored the bs from China and WHO and acted when they saw what was happening in Hubei. Note that they acted faster than CCP and before the virus had even hit.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/south-korea-rapid-intrusive-measures-covid-19

You need to find another country.

Fixed your post. Anyone who didn't know CCP was a communist authoritarian dictatorship before this virus is grossly ignorant.

The fact is the news was out if we cared to listen and pay attention to it.

Note that they acted when the news was out to the world.

Did we even vaguely question why Taiwan and South Korea were taking measures? Are they secretive communist dictatorships also?

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 02:38PM

alwald wrote: »

People can argue that there are conspiracy theories out there blaming the Chinese government, that there is an agenda against the CCP by some western countries, and I can go on and on, but what people can't and shouldn't argue with is the fishy handling of C-19 by the CCP including silencing doctors/scientists. CCP has so much to answer for about their lack of transparency from the beginning and should therefore answer to this in an international court with a full investigation.

I think an international investigation would be a great idea. We can see timelines and information sharing. Doubt that it will be allowed to happen on an open, international and transaprent level and will be more likely done by indivdual countires and blocks to allow the mud to be only thrown one way.

If it was truely international, open and transparent, the scandals of the incompetence shown in the G7 would have heads rolling for decades.

12trackmind · 15-04-2020 02:43PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Agree, but target the right areas

exactly. The alternative is free-floating hatred and prejudice.. descending into generalizations about 'Chinese' or 'Americans.'

Feck that. We have drill down through our prejudices.. get precise about what we can't abide.

In the case of the U.S. for example, it's mindless nonsense to hate 'the U.S.' or 'Americans.' Drill down and you might be left with hating the militarists and the MIC.

But then you drill down and find that many U.S. soldiers are just ordinary, decent people who have had the misfortune to be born into a society in which the only chance they have of escaping poverty and getting an education is to join the military. It's complicated.

Evenbtually you drill down far enough and find that we are all deeply imperfect and that hatred and generalizations aren't much use at all, really.

All of which has no place on a message board, I know!

Wibbs · 15-04-2020 02:49PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Thought Swine Flu was from the US, same as AIDS

AIDS? Eh... nope.

Deleted User wrote: »

I find the labeling of diseases to be rather political TBH. People talk about Ebola or AIDS but they don't assign a country name to them.... but here comes the China virus..

Well it was more in play in the past K. It's become generally less country centred and political, until this dose kicked off. We had the erroneously named Spanish flu, that some American commentators think kicked off there(it was either the US or China. There's still some debate). Then again Americans can be just like the Chinese in the "the negative came from elsewhere" syndrome. The British were similar before them. Most superpowers do this. Then we had the Asian Flu in the late 1950's, then ten years later the Hong Kong Flu. Latterly though place names generally went out of favour, so we had Swine Flu(likely Mexican/southern US states in origin). Though we did have MERS, Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome.

Though clearly East Asia is a world hotspot for the emergence of novel viruses and strains of existing ones. Even the Black Death a bacterial infection likely emerged in its pandemic form from there. Makes sense though, because of higher population densities over the centuries and more encroachment on wild areas and hosts of novel viruses. Europe while having high densities to some degree had largely cleared its wild areas and many wild fauna quite a bit earlier. we didn't and don't have nearly so many exotic animals, or such a variety of climates and habitats compared to East Asia. China alone has tropical, sub tropical, temperate(cold and warm) and desert regions.

Wibbs · 15-04-2020 02:54PM

archer22 wrote: »

Its not the wet markets themselves that are the problem,it's the ones in China where some vendors are selling wildlife and the market for most of their wares are not for the poor...I mean they are not paying poachers in Africa to catch Pangolins and smugglers to ship them to China so their meat can be sold at Aldi type prices at the markets.

Similar and illegal trade in wildlife goes on all over East Asia. Thailand for example. You want a Lesser Spotted Horned Watchamacallit from Balubaland as dinner, or a pet, or turned into powder as a way to keep your little pecker up, Bangkok has a few places for you. There's huge money, corruption and organised crime involved. It's certainly not just in China. If anything the Chinese authorities have more of a chance of stamping it out. The same kinda markets also exist in places in Africa and South America. Never mind that Western farming practices that hold huge numbers of poultry and pigs in tiny spaces.

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 03:03PM

Wibbs wrote: »

AIDS? Eh... nope.

Well it was more in play in the past K. It's become generally less country centred and political, until this dose kicked off. We had the erroneously named Spanish flu, that some American commentators think kicked off there(it was either the US or China. There's still some debate). Then again Americans can be just like the Chinese in the "the negative came from elsewhere" syndrome. The British were similar before them. Most superpowers do this. Then we had the Asian Flu in the late 1950's, then ten years later the Hong Kong Flu. Latterly though place names generally went out of favour, so we had Swine Flu(likely Mexican/southern US states in origin). Though we did have MERS, Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome.

Though clearly East Asia is a world hotspot for the emergence of novel viruses and strains of existing ones. Even the Black Death a bacterial infection likely emerged in its pandemic form from there. Makes sense though, because of higher population densities over the centuries and more encroachment on wild areas and hosts of novel viruses. Europe while having high densities to some degree had largely cleared its wild areas and many wild fauna quite a bit earlier. we didn't and don't have nearly so many exotic animals, or such a variety of climates and habitats compared to East Asia. China alone has tropical, sub tropical, temperate(cold and warm) and desert regions.

AIDs run riot in the 1980s in US bath houses of NY and SF. Patient Zero was based there. The US didn't act fast enough with this as it spread and even marketed and sold contaminated blood to countless countries, including China, funny enough; and spread the disease to new corners of the world. We could argue that they didn't know what they were looking at in the early years and I think many nations have run with that but I do wonder if it was China, would we be saying the window was lost when the Chinese didn't find patient zero within hours of contracting the virus and informing the world.

Podge201 · 15-04-2020 03:05PM

When are the Chinese going to cash in on the vaccine that they have? They can't risk too much more time in case another country developes one.

cryptocurrency · 15-04-2020 03:08PM

Podge201 wrote: »

When are the Chinese going to cash in on the vaccine that they have? They can't risk too much more time in case another country developes one.

Hi Alex

Is this where you hang out since Infowars went off youtube?

whats that story about making the frogs gay again?

The Chinese Big Lie

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