The Chinese Big Lie

silverharp · 13-04-2020 04:02PM

2u2me wrote: »

Fauci is 100% right. There is a line and Trump has crossed it.

"earlier mitigation efforts could have saved more lives"

This is undeniable. It is not up to China to close their outbounds flights to here in the case of a pandemic. Our borders are our own business, we should have closed flights from there. There is a difference.

Fauci was pretty blase in Jan, even when some independent commentators were telling people it was worse than officials were saying

https://twitter.com/RudyAmaya1/status/1249696305699487744

Outlaw Pete · 13-04-2020 04:09PM

Wibbs wrote: »

..and it appears the WHO bought this no need to shut down air travel.

Not only did they buy it, their chief snidely suggested (on Feb 4th in response to the US Administrations travel restrictions) that any country shutting down travel from China was fear mongering, stigmatizing populations and reiterated that in their view there was little benefit in doing it anyway:

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1224734993966096387

Madness.

Venom · 13-04-2020 04:12PM

2u2me wrote: »

Fauci is 100% right. There is a line and Trump has crossed it.

"earlier mitigation efforts could have saved more lives"

This is undeniable. It is not up to China to close their outbounds flights to here in the case of a pandemic. Our borders are our own business, we should have closed flights from there. There is a difference.

Didn't trump ban people travelling from China in January? I thought that's what started off the media's narrative of saying the virus came from China was racist garbage.

Humilde · 13-04-2020 04:13PM

There aren't too many governments who acted at the right time in all of this. Think of Italy, Spain, UK and US. Gross negligence bordering on criminal in my opinion. I think that it shows how globalisation has failed miserably. If it were managed correctly, globalisation could be fantastic for the world. But unfortunately the world is like a typical school playground. You've got the good decent kids who behave and respect the rules, you've got the smart arses who take advantage of others at every turn to forward their own needs, and you've got the bullies who just take whatever they want and don't give a ****. Recently, we have had many of the latter coming to positions of power in the world. I might add that we have quite a few smart arses now in Irish politics who only have their own career in mind and to help with the homeless etc. Also this thing called democracy is clearly not working. Not because of democracy itself, but because the human being is naturally self serving and competitive to the detriment of others. Maybe asfter this monumental **** up which has killed so many, electorates worldwide might begin to elect responsible politicians again, if they exist.

Venom · 13-04-2020 04:14PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not only did they buy it, their chief snidely suggested (on Feb 4th in response to the US Administrations travel restrictions) that any country shutting down travel from China was fear mongering, stigmatizing populations and reiterated that in their view there was little benefit in doing it anyway:

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1224734993966096387

Madness.

Head's need to roll in the WHO over their shambolic handling of this crisis.

Grab All Association · 13-04-2020 04:20PM

silverharp wrote: »

Fauci was pretty blase in Jan, even when some independent commentators were telling people it was worse than officials were saying

]

Would Fauci have been privy to the intelligence passed on to Trump?

2u2me · 13-04-2020 04:25PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is only a matter of time before Trump is blamed for the entire Pandemic.

If you had a subordinate trying to take the piss out of you what would you do? Honest answer please?

It is my understanding that there are no direct flights from China to Ireland?

I wouldn't go that far in fact I was praising in another thread how I thought him banning Chinese flights was a good thing.
He certainly could have acted faster. 20th January news of H2H was out, flights banned I believe Feb 5th(Perhaps Feb 2nd).

Fauci answered a question honestly; can you expect him to do anything else as the country's leading expert? For Trump to call for his firing instead of trying to refute or explain what Fauci said seems very childish. For example Trump could have said that no country in the world acted soon enough except maybe Taiwan.

IAMAMORON · 13-04-2020 04:31PM

2u2me wrote: »

I wouldn't go that far in fact I was praising in another thread how I thought him banning Chinese flights was a good thing.
He certainly could have acted faster. 20th January news of H2H was out, flights banned I believe Feb 5th(Perhaps Feb 2nd).

Fauci answered a question honestly; can you expect him to do anything else as the country's leading expert? For Trump to call for his firing instead of trying to refute or explain what Fauci said seems very childish. For example Trump could have said that no country in the world acted soon enough except maybe Taiwan.

If he hasn't actually fired him yet it is just a bit of spin for the time being. Trump is the godfather of media spin, he lives off it. Give it a few days but if I was Fauci I would need to start reconsidering, or looking for a new job.

"If you shoot at the Devil you best not miss"

Outlaw Pete · 13-04-2020 04:33PM

2u2me wrote: »

Fauci is 100% right. There is a line and Trump has crossed it.

"earlier mitigation efforts could have saved more lives"

First of all, Fauci is not criticizing Trump with that comment and if Trump has been swayed into thinking he was, by the way the MSM have reported his remarks then I'll have no problem condemning him for being so bloody gullible, especially given all his bluster about fake news. However, as of right now (at least) I don't see evidence that Fauci is condemning Trump at all, just lots of news media saying that he was.

Secondly, of course earlier mitigation efforts could have saved more lives but Fauci more than anyone else was out in force saying that wasn't needed. Here he is on Feb 29th saying that the American public don't need to change ANYTHING that they doing yet:

https://twitter.com/realPowerTie/status/1249708865094066176

Also, on March 22nd, in an interview with The Atlantic he also made it clear that whenever he suggested anything with regards to mitigation, Trump ALWAYS listened to it and NEVER overruled him:

threeball · 13-04-2020 04:47PM

Humilde wrote: »

There aren't too many governments who acted at the right time in all of this. Think of Italy, Spain, UK and US. Gross negligence bordering on criminal in my opinion. I think that it shows how globalisation has failed miserably. If it were managed correctly, globalisation could be fantastic for the world. But unfortunately the world is like a typical school playground. You've got the good decent kids who behave and respect the rules, you've got the smart arses who take advantage of others at every turn to forward their own needs, and you've got the bullies who just take whatever they want and don't give a ****. Recently, we have had many of the latter coming to positions of power in the world. I might add that we have quite a few smart arses now in Irish politics who only have their own career in mind and to help with the homeless etc. Also this thing called democracy is clearly not working. Not because of democracy itself, but because the human being is naturally self serving and competitive to the detriment of others. Maybe asfter this monumental **** up which has killed so many, electorates worldwide might begin to elect responsible politicians again, if they exist.

Not a chance unfortunately. The selfish rush to get ahead and fcuk everyone you step on to get there will be as prevalent as ever. Perhaps even moreso. Its the human condition.

2u2me · 13-04-2020 05:13PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

First of all, Fauci is not criticizing Trump with that comment and if Trump has been swayed into thinking he was, by the way the MSM have reported his remarks then I'll have no problem condemning him for being so bloody gullible, especially given all his bluster about fake news.

Agree here it was the point I was trying to get at however badly I formed it. If he's criticizing Trump he's also criticizing himself but he's just being honest.

I believe the line Trump crossed was retweeting a call for Fauci's firing.

IAMAMORON · 13-04-2020 05:29PM

2u2me wrote: »

Agree here it was the point I was trying to get at however badly I formed it. If he's criticizing Trump he's also criticizing himself but he's just being honest.

I believe the line Trump crossed was retweeting a call for Fauci's firing.

That would be the spin I was referring to. He is more machiavellian than his detractors give him credit for.

Billy Ocean · 13-04-2020 09:00PM

If anyone thinks the Chinese reported figures of cases and fatalities is accurate given their population then their head is in the sand....

thebaz · 13-04-2020 09:29PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not only did they buy it, their chief snidely suggested (on Feb 4th in response to the US Administrations travel restrictions) that any country shutting down travel from China was fear mongering, stigmatizing populations and reiterated that in their view there was little benefit in doing it anyway:

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1224734993966096387

Madness.

WHO have handled this terribly, that was ther job back in January and early Feb, to warn the world of a new human to human Carona virus outbreak, they did not -

Then they said face masks were not necessary, now the evidence seams to differ -

They are driving most countrys Covid response, but I belive Tedros Adhanom and his team, have serious questions to answer, praising Chinas response, when they should have known ther had been a big cover up - Tedros has had previous allegations of covering up of 3 cholera outbreaks in his home country (Ethiopia).

BarryD2 · 13-04-2020 09:43PM

Billy Ocean wrote: »

If anyone thinks the Chinese reported figures of cases and fatalities is accurate given their population then their head is in the sand....

And buried up to their arse, with their legs wiggling about. Nobody has yet managed to explain just what the Chinese authorities supposedly did to halt the growth of the virus over just a few days. It's entirely possible that the figures when they do emerge will put the USA & Europe completely in the shade.

Yes they may have enforced a better 'lockdown', they may have traced more effectively, they may wear more masks but these are all tactics that other more transparent states have followed. Possibly not in quite the same authoritarian manner but sufficiently close and yet the results/ trajectories vary widely compared to what China reports. It doesn't add up.

There are many Chinese living in fairly cramped housing, no great wealth or anything like that - seems impossible that this virus would not have penetrated and caused great numbers of deaths in these districts?

BanditLuke · 13-04-2020 09:46PM

Venom wrote: »

Head's need to roll in the WHO over their shambolic handling of this crisis.

The World Health Organisation is a laughing stock now.

Billy Ocean · 13-04-2020 09:49PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

The World Health Organisation is a laughing stock now.

as each day passes the WHO has more of a FIFA/ FAI feel to it...wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them which is very little

rainbowtrout · 13-04-2020 10:10PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is my understanding that there are no direct flights from China to Ireland?

Yes there is. Hainan Airlines fly direct from Dublin to Beijing and also to Shenzhen.

cryptocurrency · 14-04-2020 08:53AM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes there is. Hainan Airlines fly direct from Dublin to Beijing and also to Shenzhen.

Stopped a while back

cryptocurrency · 14-04-2020 08:54AM

BanditLuke wrote: »

The World Health Organisation is a laughing stock now.

Far less of a laughing stock then the handling of the "first world" nations

silverharp · 14-04-2020 08:57AM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Far less of a laughing stock then the handling of the "first world" nations

that's a bit unfair

cryptocurrency · 14-04-2020 08:58AM

Billy Ocean wrote: »

If anyone thinks the Chinese reported figures of cases and fatalities is accurate given their population then their head is in the sand....

If anyone thinks the figure is many multiple of that also has their head in the sand. A virus which was trained to avoid all of the 2 million expats, their firends, their friends friends and the reopening of business.

Also NASA must have their head in the sand as the pollution is clearly coming back.

China is getting out of their dreams and getting into their car.

cryptocurrency · 14-04-2020 08:58AM

silverharp wrote: »

that's a bit unfair

unfortunate but true

Wibbs · 14-04-2020 09:08AM

BanditLuke wrote: »

The World Health Organisation is a laughing stock now.

Yes, though to be fair to them their title sounds a helluva lot grander and more important than their funding and power is in reality. They're massively underfunded and have been since forever. What power they have is doled out by local governments or they get no access and little cooperation. It's only when something like this hits is it obvious how "small" they are. Even with these negatives they've done sterling work over the years. But yeah, they need a major overhaul and significantly more funding and full no questions asked UN backing and clout.

Yurt2 · 14-04-2020 09:10AM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

unfortunate but true

A cursory look at Tedros' background and Chinese efforts in multilateral organizations reveals he was and is Beijing's man. And he certainly behaved like it in the early weeks of the outbreak.

These people are rewarded handsomely to observe and alert the global community on events like this and he was more or less reading from a script couriered to him from Zhongnanhai.

deathbomber · 14-04-2020 09:15AM

WHO are not a laughing stock. It is a complex situation. They have to exercise caution, you cannot simply address the world and ask them to go into lockdown for every viral outbreak, there are economic consequences (as we all see now). Also, you cannot just roll up to the local Chinese airport and start an investigation in said country. It is a communist state, the WHO are simply playing the game and ultimately trying to accomodate a communist regime/outlook so they can have some kind of access to assess the situation

silverharp · 14-04-2020 09:19AM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

unfortunate but true

you are saying the first world is a laughing stock, that's unfair. They have literally risked a depression to get on top of it

cryptocurrency · 14-04-2020 09:23AM

Yurt! wrote: »

A cursory look at Tedros' background and Chinese efforts in multilateral organizations reveals he was and is Beijing's man. And he certainly behaved like it in the early weeks of the outbreak.

These people are rewarded handsomely to observe and alert the global community on events like this and he was more or less reading from a script couriered to him from Zhongnanhai.

Early weeks, China still acted faster then any nation would have and got the info out. Thats being honest and not supporting beijing.

Anyone who can look at the Mr Bean like preformance western nations to a real crisis would think the blaming of WHO is the desperate moves of a paper tiger.

This crisis has made me embarrassed ...no more lauding it now. The west is a tinpot paper tiger.

cryptocurrency · 14-04-2020 09:24AM

silverharp wrote: »

you are saying the first world is a laughing stock, that's unfair. They have literally risked a depression to get on top of it

every nation has...including commie dictatorships

khalessi · 14-04-2020 09:24AM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Early weeks, China still acted faster then any nation would have and got the info out. Thats being honest and not supporting beijing.

Anyone who can look at the Mr Bean like preformance western nations to a real crisis would think the blaming of WHO is the desperate moves of a paper tiger.

This crisis has made me embarrassed ...no more lauding it now. The west is a tinpot paper tiger.

Maybe I am wrong but China had info on this in December and only released information in January when they could no longer control the narrative.

The Chinese Big Lie

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