Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

Andrew00 · 13-04-2020 09:03PM

quartz1 wrote: »

167 People have died in Nursing Homes. I cant understand how these people never made it to ICU. Are the survival prospects really that poor for ill elderly people . I post this as a question not an accusation. It's really sad.

Maybe they deliberately ignored them to keep space in ICU units for younger people and to kill of some of the older population?

Sierra Oscar · 13-04-2020 09:03PM

quartz1 wrote: »

167 People have died in Nursing Homes. I cant understand how these people never made it to ICU. Are the survival prospects really that poor for ill elderly people . I post this as a question not an accusation. It's really sad.

A lot of residents in nursing homes would be considered 'do not resuscitate', they wouldn't even be considered for admittance to ICU by their GP's & consultants. Ordinarily they wouldn't even be considered for admittance to hospital by their GP's if the nursing homes were capable of providing palliative care themselves.

DevilsHaircut · 13-04-2020 09:04PM

EU guidance on antibody/convalescent plasma therapy for patients. Ireland needs to start a programme urgently.

'Plasma transfusion is a potentially promising therapy for COVID-19 patients that can be made widely available at relatively short notice by blood services across the EU.

Transfusing plasma from patients that have recovered from infections has been tried in the past with some success. For COVID-19, this approach is supported by early scientific evidence and a study conducted in Hong Kong during the SARS-1 crisis (a closely related virus). This empirical evidence also indicates that associated risks are very low.'

https://ec.europa.eu/health/blood_tissues_organs/covid-19_en

trapp · 13-04-2020 09:05PM

quartz1 wrote: »

167 People have died in Nursing Homes. I cant understand how these people never made it to ICU. Are the survival prospects really that poor for ill elderly people . I post this as a question not an accusation. It's really sad.

For those with cancer or other serious health issues they often wouldn't go to ICU if they took a turn regardless of Covid or not.

I would suggest many nursing home patients with underlying conditions would not have good survival prospects and ICU might be too invasive?

giveitholly · 13-04-2020 09:06PM

Just on Singapore,did they lock down too soon?Looking worldwide it looks like there is no way of stopping this spreading,the best way to try beat this virus is try let it spread as slowly as possible through the population so deaths will be as few as possible

spookwoman · 13-04-2020 09:06PM

On A lighter note
Corona Zombies: the terrible movie we might just need right now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JptqwQNg480

Kermit.de.frog · 13-04-2020 09:06PM

spookwoman wrote: »

India is not looking good

They just have no capacity for their population to do testing like we do. It's a serious problem.

And a lot of people don't stick to rules anyway. Crowded and kind of chaotic, not a good combo.

jesus_thats_gre · 13-04-2020 09:07PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Relative to population size, we're worse on that graph than France, Italy and Spain, but better than the US, China, and Iran.

I want to see the data over time and interpret it myself.

Wombatman · 13-04-2020 09:08PM

FROM: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0413/1130268-irish-covid-figures/

So far, there have been 365 deaths linked to Covid-19 in this country.

68%, or 247 people, died in hospital. 37 people, or 10%, died in intensive care.

Speaking this evening, Dr Holohan said that people as young as 30 and as old as 105 have died.

However, he said the mean age was 69, and the median age was 62.

80% of people who have been admitted to ICU to be treated for Covid-19 have had an underlying illness.

So far, 269 people have been treated in intensive care since this crisis began.

65 people have been discharged from ICU (24%), while 37 people died in ICU (14%).

167 people are still being cared for in ICU, and the median age of all of those people who have been admitted to intensive care so far is 61.

To date, 152 people have died in nursing homes.

Dr Holohan said that 199 deaths have occurred in community settings, and that 167 of these have been in "nursing home environments".

"68%, or 247 people, died in hospital. 37 people, or 10%, died in intensive care."

247 people died in hospital.

Why did only 37 of them get ICU treatment????

No wonder or ICU capacity is not overwhelmed!

stephenjmcd · 13-04-2020 09:10PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I never thought I'd be saying that Italian reporting is far superior to Irish. While they are usually more bureaucratic they've managed to report extremely consistently. Put's our reporting in stark contrast.

Based on latest hpsc report. There is a 20% hospitalisation rate. Fairly high.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/COVID-19%20Epidemiology%20report%20for%20NPHET%2012.04.2020%20_v1_website.pdf

This is much higher than most regions in Italy and highlights our lack of testing. (our data set is skewed toward those already in a hospital setting)

http://www.salute.gov.it/imgs/C_17_notizie_4459_0_file.pdf

Everyone was hospitalised at the start of the outbreak regardless of condition

coastwatch · 13-04-2020 09:12PM

Wombatman wrote: »

FROM: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0413/1130268-irish-covid-figures/

"68%, or 247 people, died in hospital. 37 people, or 10%, died in intensive care."

247 people died in hospital.

Why did only 37 of them get ICU treatment????

No wonder or ICU capacity is not overwhelmed!

268 have been treated in ICU to date.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/466968-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-13-a/#hospitalised-cases-by-age-group

crossman47 · 13-04-2020 09:13PM

Wombatman wrote: »

FROM: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0413/1130268-irish-covid-figures/

"68%, or 247 people, died in hospital. 37 people, or 10%, died in intensive care."

247 people died in hospital.

Why did only 37 of them get ICU treatment????

No wonder or ICU capacity is not overwhelmed!

Because it wasn't judged medically appropriate. George Lee asked that question a few days ago and Dr. Henry was adamant there was no question of rationing ICU care. In fact he seemed genuinely upset at the implication of the question.

owlbethere · 13-04-2020 09:15PM

I wonder would IV vitamin C work as a hospital treatment for the covid19?

ACitizenErased · 13-04-2020 09:18PM

owlbethere wrote: »

I wonder would IV vitamin C work as a hospital treatment for the covid19?

Vitamin C is ineffective. Vitamin D is supposed to be the one. /s

easypazz · 13-04-2020 09:19PM

Fauci V Trump up shortly.

Strazdas · 13-04-2020 09:21PM

Wombatman wrote: »

FROM: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0413/1130268-irish-covid-figures/

"68%, or 247 people, died in hospital. 37 people, or 10%, died in intensive care."

247 people died in hospital.

Why did only 37 of them get ICU treatment????

No wonder or ICU capacity is not overwhelmed!

A lot of old and sick people wouldn't be suitable for ICU. It's meant for people who are normally reasonably healthy and who would have a very good chance of responding to ICU treatment. Many of the old, sick and frail would simply be too ill to go into ICU.

Birdie Num Num · 13-04-2020 09:22PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Singapore is very densely populated (I think it's in the top two or three most densely populated countries in the world). Very difficult to control a pandemic in that setting.

I’ve been surprised by the amount of cases in Monaco. The most densely populated state in the world yet very few cases and no deaths. Would have expected it along with Andorra and San Marino to have higher cases too based on their geographical locations. Am I missing something in the stats?

....Actually, (edit) I was wrong on the stats for San Marino and Andorra. High enough based on population but Monaco?

Strazdas · 13-04-2020 09:25PM

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I’ve been surprised by the amount of cases in Monaco. The most densely populated state in the world yet very few cases and no deaths. Would have expected it along with Andorra and San Marino to have higher cases too based on their geographical locations. Am I missing something in the stats?

It might simply be the luck of the location. I think San Marino is nearer to known Covid hotspots.

embraer170 · 13-04-2020 09:27PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

A lot of residents in nursing homes would be considered 'do not resuscitate', they wouldn't even be considered for admittance to ICU by their GP's & consultants. Ordinarily they wouldn't even be considered for admittance to hospital by their GP's if the nursing homes were capable of providing palliative care themselves.

I would be interested in knowing how the Irish and UK approach to admittance to ICU compares to that in Italy, Spain, etc.?

screamer · 13-04-2020 09:29PM

quartz1 wrote: »

167 People have died in Nursing Homes. I cant understand how these people never made it to ICU. Are the survival prospects really that poor for ill elderly people . I post this as a question not an accusation. It's really sad.

I would imagine that for some people with age and underlying conditions that all they can be given is palliative care. I’ve said for a couple of weeks now this has been happening. I suppose if there is no good outcome, it is pointless putting an elderly person through intubation. It also stops the ICU staff having to make the same heartbreaking decisions here as in Italy about who to remove from ventilation to give someone who has a chance to survive a chance. It’s all awfully sad.

Anita Blow · 13-04-2020 09:31PM

Wombatman wrote: »

FROM: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0413/1130268-irish-covid-figures/

"68%, or 247 people, died in hospital. 37 people, or 10%, died in intensive care."

247 people died in hospital.

Why did only 37 of them get ICU treatment????

No wonder or ICU capacity is not overwhelmed!

As has been said above, most who have died outside of ICU were elderly and had multiple co-morbidities and so unlikely to benefit from ICU.

Just Saying · 13-04-2020 09:32PM

Wombatman wrote: »

FROM: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0413/1130268-irish-covid-figures/

"68%, or 247 people, died in hospital. 37 people, or 10%, died in intensive care."

247 people died in hospital.

Why did only 37 of them get ICU treatment????

No wonder or ICU capacity is not overwhelmed!

There are some glaring inconsistencies in the piece quoted.

The hospital deaths plus the residential care deaths exceed the total deaths.
I think there is a crossover here with some people who moved from residential care/nursing homes to hospitals prior to death being double counted.

Also the median age and also the mean age of death are incorrect.

Wombatman · 13-04-2020 09:35PM

crossman47 wrote: »

Because it wasn't judged medically appropriate. George Lee asked that question a few days ago and Dr. Henry was adamant there was no question of rationing ICU care. In fact he seemed genuinely upset at the implication of the question.

He can be upset all he likes.

20% of people who die have no underlying health conditions.

I would guess at least another 20% of those with a condition have a fighting chance.

That makes at least 40% of the 275 who died in hospital were far from being "medically appropriate".

110 of the 275 should have died fighting in ICU. Not 37!

Remember we are not even including nursing home or community deaths in the 275 who died in a hospital setting.

hmmm · 13-04-2020 09:35PM

Strazdas wrote: »

A lot of old and sick people wouldn't be suitable for ICU. It's meant for people who are normally reasonably healthy and who would have a very good chance of responding to ICU treatment. Many of the old, sick and frail would simply be too ill to go into ICU.

I'm guessing there's a lot of young people on this thread. Probably most older people have gone through the stage of discussing with a doctor why it wouldn't be the right thing to move your parent/grandparent from a nursing home into hospital when they get severely sick. This is normal, and prolonging a life with unpleasant interventions would frequently not be the right thing to do.

fritzelly · 13-04-2020 09:35PM

Strazdas wrote: »

A lot of old and sick people wouldn't be suitable for ICU. It's meant for people who are normally reasonably healthy and who would have a very good chance of responding to ICU treatment. Many of the old, sick and frail would simply be too ill to go into ICU.

Exactly - some people think we're just leaving them to die
The ones who are very ill to begin with would likely deteriorate very quickly before you may even be able to get them to ICU.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are found the next morning to have passed.

sadie1502 · 13-04-2020 09:35PM

Anita Blow wrote: »

As has been said above, most who have died outside of ICU were elderly and had multiple co-morbidities and so unlikely to benefit from ICU.

Being put on a ventilator takes massive toll on the body. If you're old Frail unwell being put through that would kill you.

tom_tarbucket · 13-04-2020 09:36PM

Hello, do ye reckon we have hit the peak yet?

thelad95 · 13-04-2020 09:37PM

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Hello, do ye reckon we have hit the peak yet?

Currently riding through it I think, and that's without the German cases

fritzelly · 13-04-2020 09:38PM

Wombatman wrote: »

He can be upset all he likes.

20% of people who die have no underlying health conditions.

I would guess at least another 20% of those with a condition have a fighting chance.

That makes at least 40% of the 275 who died in hospital were far from being "medically appropriate".

110 of the 275 should have died fighting in ICU. Not 37!

Remember we are not even including nursing home or community deaths in the 275 who died in a hospital setting.

If you had been following this virus you would know some people can go from feeling OK to dead in 24 hours - look at BJ

joe_99 · 13-04-2020 09:38PM

quartz1 wrote: »

167 People have died in Nursing Homes. I cant understand how these people never made it to ICU. Are the survival prospects really that poor for ill elderly people . I post this as a question not an accusation. It's really sad.

Old people rarely make it to ICU. Standard in health services world wide. ICU is extremely invasive and demanding on staff and patients.

Edit: I see most people have answered this prior to me. I think it is beneficial for some to understand how most older people lives end. It is completely normal for families and doctors to agree to let older relatives die in peace rather than go through ICU. Covid 19 is not impacting this.

Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

Comments