The Chinese Big Lie

BanditLuke · 11-04-2020 10:20AM

silverharp wrote: »

Bill Maher giving it some welly

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1248883434396610560

I'm hearing a lot of people now calling this the Chinese virus and rightfully so.

beauf · 11-04-2020 10:29AM

Wibbs wrote: »

True B, but the other apsect is that China is very different in government and culture than say here. They can call for a lockdown and go in hard and do it. They've also more compliance from the population.

Oh I agree entirely and I am reminded of how they built massive runways in WW2 for American bombers by hand in unbelievable times.

The reports from China show the same thing this time.

But there's also reports from China that suggest they made a policy change not to test in certain conditions and not report everything. If that's true or would certainly explain the numbers. It may even be a deliberate strategy to exit lockdown.

alwald · 11-04-2020 11:53AM

China is lying about its figures. The virus was in Wuhan since mid November so I have 2 questions:
How it didn't spread across all of china but instead it was contained in Wuhan only?
How did they manage an 80K infection in a country with a population of 1.428 billion?

There is plenty of evidence from the rest of the world that containing this virus is extremely hard and flattening the curve takes weeks. Surprisingly enough, and based on Worldometers, their peak happened on the 12th of February with 14k plus cases reported, followed by 5K on the 13th (huge drop already), then a figure between 1.7K and 2.6K for 5 days in a row and finally Covid-19 literally disappeared.

IAMAMORON · 11-04-2020 12:02PM

alwald wrote: »

China is lying about its figures. The virus was in Wuhan since mid November so I have 2 questions:
How it didn't spread across all of china but instead it was contained in Wuhan only?
How did they manage an 80K infection in a country with a population of 1.428 billion?

There is plenty of evidence from the rest of the world that containing this virus is extremely hard and flattening the curve takes weeks. Surprisingly enough, and based on Worldometers, their peak happened on the 12th of February with 14k plus cases reported, followed by 5K on the 13th (huge drop already), then a figure between 1.7K and 2.6K for 5 days in a row and finally Covid-19 literally disappeared.

I agree with everything here. They are lying through their teeth. Given their population there should have a death toll well over 100,000. Infections are literally immeasurable at this point.

I also think South Korea have managed to sweep it under the carpet nicely.

thebaz · 11-04-2020 12:22PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I agree with everything here. They are lying through their teeth. Given their population there should have a death toll well over 100,000. Infections are literally immeasurable at this point.

I also think South Korea have managed to sweep it under the carpet nicely.

I would believe South Korea, ther testing is how testing should be run -

China is China, I too don't believe ther figures coming from CCP, but I believe WHO also have big questions to answer:
why in early Feb , did they say ther was no need to ban travel , from China ?

Also ther dictate on masks has been very confusing/poor, did they not say masks dont help protect virus spreadf, when they certainly seam an aid.

IAMAMORON · 11-04-2020 12:25PM

thebaz wrote: »

I would believe South Korea, ther testing is how testing should be run -

China is China, I too don't believe ther figures coming from CCP, but I believe WHO also have big questions to answer:
why in early Feb , did they say ther was no need to ban travel , from China ?

Also ther dictate on masks has been very confusing/poor, did they not say masks dont help protect virus spreadf, when they certainly seam an aid.

I don't understand how the rest of the world have managed to get testing so wrong and S Korea have got it so right? I do recognise that a lot of their industry is pharma based and they have a heavily skilled workforce but it does seem like they have tackled the virus seamlessly.

When thing are too good to be true....?

TheValeyard · 11-04-2020 12:26PM

silverharp wrote: »

Bill Maher giving it some welly

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1248883434396610560

I like it when he gets going.

2u2me · 11-04-2020 12:27PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I agree with everything here. They are lying through their teeth. Given their population there should have a death toll well over 100,000. Infections are literally immeasurable at this point.

I also think South Korea have managed to sweep it under the carpet nicely.

Taiwan too and most of South East Asia. Could it be their stronger restrictions and faster response? Or perhaps their social cohesion on this matter.. nah.. liars the lot of them

2u2me · 11-04-2020 12:29PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I don't understand how the rest of the world have managed to get testing so wrong and S Korea have got it so right? I do recognise that a lot of their industry is pharma based and they have a heavily skilled workforce but it does seem like they have tackled the virus seamlessly.

When thing are too good to be true....?

For example they implemented a very clever policy the rest of the world didn't implement. They made tests available for everyone they could pay for themsevles, but anyone who tested for coronavirus was refunded.

They also utilized technology to allow others to know where outbreaks were in realtime, they could avoid these areas. We could learn a lot from their response, or we can call them liars.

thebaz · 11-04-2020 12:30PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I don't understand how the rest of the world have managed to get testing so wrong and S Korea have got it so right? I do recognise that a lot of their industry is pharma based and they have a heavily skilled workforce but it does seem like they have tackled the virus seamlessly.

When thing are too good to be true....?

Germany too, have ther testing organised well, we are a mess , trying to incorporate bits of what they are doing , like contract tracing, when we cant do the basics of testing those that actually need to be tested and are sick, not sure if this is another dictate from WHO , who I'm now sceptical of, at this stage.

IAMAMORON · 11-04-2020 12:53PM

2u2me wrote: »

Taiwan too and most of South East Asia. Could it be their stronger restrictions and faster response? Or perhaps their social cohesion on this matter.. nah.. liars the lot of them

2u2me wrote: »

For example they implemented a very clever policy the rest of the world didn't implement. They made tests available for everyone they could pay for themsevles, but anyone who tested for coronavirus was refunded.

They also utilized technology to allow others to know where outbreaks were in realtime, they could avoid these areas. We could learn a lot from their response, or we can call them liars.

thebaz wrote: »

Germany too, have ther testing organised well, we are a mess , trying to incorporate bits of what they are doing , like contract tracing, when we cant do the basics of testing those that actually need to be tested and are sick, not sure if this is another dictate from WHO , who I'm now sceptical of, at this stage.

I can clean my house in 15 minutes if I sweep everything under the carpet. Just saying, it all looks a bit easy considering what we are seeing in Europe and what we are going to witness in the developing world in the next 12 months, take a deep breath.

I am not denying or doubting Asian efficiency, but it still requires scrutiny. Maybe they have had more robust plans in place for such crises given the history of outbreaks in the last 20 years?

As regards Germany I understand they are reporting deaths obscurely. For example Covid deaths relating to heart attacks ( common enough after successful ventilation treatment of pneumonia ) are being recorded as heart attacks. Similarly they are reporting pneumonia rather than Covid as cause of death where applicable. This is not as sinister as it sounds as I understand that the German health authority will review coronary reports once they have defined the virus per patient. This is to properly establish viral mutations and other medical idiosyncrasies. The Germans will be reclassifying all mutations in time. They are a very thorough bunch.

2u2me · 11-04-2020 12:59PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Maybe they have had more robust plans in place for such crises given the history of outbreaks in the last 20 years?

I believe this is nail on head. If we had experienced what they did with Sars I'm sure we'd be a lot more ready now. I believe masks played a massive role too, they have been culturally adopted in Asia, whereas in the West we are stilll deciding whether they are useful

bob mcbob · 11-04-2020 01:44PM

It seems that the CCP are now moving to phase 2 of the Big Lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/china-clamping-down-on-coronavirus-research-deleted-pages-suggest

It's not about what happened and how it can be prevented from happening again but instead about making Xi look good.

2u2me · 11-04-2020 03:04PM

bob mcbob wrote: »

It seems that the CCP are now moving to phase 2 of the Big Lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/china-clamping-down-on-coronavirus-research-deleted-pages-suggest

It's not about what happened and how it can be prevented from happening again but instead about making Xi look good.

Certainly that's what large parts of what the CCP are about. (banning pictures of winnie the pooh).

But this article unfairly presents a dichotomy when both statements can be true.

“They are seeking to transform it from a massive disaster to one where the government did everything right and gave the rest of the world time to prepare,”

The evidence touted in this article is really clutching at straws. You have deleted statements and unverified documents. Interestingly it was penned by their washington correspondent.

thebaz · 11-04-2020 04:04PM

China still trying to cover up origins of virus

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/china-clamping-down-on-coronavirus-research-deleted-pages-suggest

What could they possibly be trying to hide ?
could it be origin from the supposed lab leak in Wuhan or the Wet markets they were supposed to close after Sars 1?

11-04-2020 04:22PM

thebaz wrote: »

China still trying to cover up origins of virus

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/china-clamping-down-on-coronavirus-research-deleted-pages-suggest

What could they possibly be trying to hide ?
could it be origin from the supposed lab leak in Wuhan or the Wet markets they were supposed to close after Sars 1?

My bet is Aliens! Yes! Our martian overlords have come and are running China throughout this crisis. All praise our martian leaders.

Why is everyone expecting China to behave differently than it has done for 60 years, and then, complaining when they behave consistently?

I swear, it just shows how little people really considered China before the virus, and how ignorant they are of it's standard practices. Censorship has always been part of their system. Avoidance of responsibility has always been part of their system. Making the leader look good has always been part of their system.

Bloody hell.

mikiezzz · 11-04-2020 04:24PM

beauf wrote: »

Oh I agree entirely and I am reminded of how they built massive runways in WW2 for American bombers by hand in unbelievable times.

The reports from China show the same thing this time.

But there's also reports from China that suggest they made a policy change not to test in certain conditions and not report everything. If that's true or would certainly explain the numbers. It may even be a deliberate strategy to exit lockdown.

It is true. Chinese Communist governors do not care about people dying. They care about economy going down. The actual death toll in China must be huge. This is a photo of mobile phones taken out from death people in a cremation service venue in Wuhan:

You know, phone batteries cannot be burned, so have to be taken out.

BanditLuke · 11-04-2020 04:25PM

thebaz wrote: »

China still trying to cover up origins of virus

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/china-clamping-down-on-coronavirus-research-deleted-pages-suggest

What could they possibly be trying to hide ?
could it be origin from the supposed lab leak in Wuhan or the Wet markets they were supposed to close after Sars 1?

Im reading more and more about this lab and the chance this could have come from it. It does seem a coincidence alright and convenient for the CCP to have a wet market right beside it.

Bowlardo · 11-04-2020 04:33PM

Folks search for a you tube channel WION
I believe it is India news . The news reporter is brilliant and she pulls no punches

Very refreshing to listen direct news and they seem to have a bit more information on it than this side of the world.
Apparently Japan are creating a stimulus worth 20% Of their GDP for their companies to move out of China completely.

11-04-2020 04:34PM

2u2me wrote: »

Weaponizing a virus would leave tell tale signs. These are not signs scientists have found. American scientists.

It doesn't have to have been a bio weapon. It's more likely research and carelessness. They could have been researching viruses in bats and one of the staff fall ill.

BanditLuke · 11-04-2020 04:37PM

Bowlardo wrote: »

Folks search for a you tube channel WION
I believe it is India news . The news reporter is brilliant and she pulls no punches

Very refreshing to listen direct news and they seem to have a bit more information on it than this side of the world.
Apparently Japan are creating a stimulus worth 20% Of their GDP for their companies to move out of China completely.

That is superb news. Hopefully the EU can show similar leadership in the coming years. We need to make China pay a very heavy toll indeed for destroying the world economy along with God knows how many lives when this is over.

IAMAMORON · 11-04-2020 04:43PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

That is superb news. Hopefully the EU can show similar leadership in the coming years. We need to make China pay a very heavy toll indeed for destroying the world economy along with God knows how many lives when this is over.

How exactly? I agree with you btw.

I would start by better informing consumers exactly when they are supporting Chinese exports. Consumers are in the dark here.

thebaz · 11-04-2020 04:48PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

We need to make China pay a very heavy toll indeed for destroying the world economy along with God knows how many lives when this is over.

My big fear is , when we get over this Carona horror show in say months, and our Economies are on its knees, including our own , where do we get the loans to foot the massive Social welfare bills and the re-building of our shattered business and economies -
China -
But what will be the price of those loans. ?

Ignacius · 11-04-2020 04:53PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I don't understand how the rest of the world have managed to get testing so wrong and S Korea have got it so right? I do recognise that a lot of their industry is pharma based and they have a heavily skilled workforce but it does seem like they have tackled the virus seamlessly.

When thing are too good to be true....?

They had systems in place because they expected an oncoming pandemic.

They reacted quickly and there testing facilities were the best in the world.

If Britain or the US had figures like them they would be touting their exceptionalism again.

China is a separate issue. South Korea did a great job and should be applauded. Hopefully we can take lessons from them.

Really living up to your name there.

11-04-2020 05:09PM

thebaz wrote: »

My big fear is , when we get over this Carona horror show in say months, and our Economies are on its knees, including our own , where do we get the loans to foot the massive Social welfare bills and the re-building of our shattered business and economies -
China -
But what will be the price of those loans. ?

A restructuring of a system that is obviously broken, but nobody wants to fix. Long term Social welfare isn't feasible because resources are finite. Hopefully, the aftermath of this crisis, will make people realise this... and not simply pass the buck to China.

It's time to get our act together and stop pretending we're playing in Paradise.

SuperTortoise · 11-04-2020 05:10PM

https://www.jpost.com/International/US-intelligence-report-warned-of-coronavirus-in-November-report-624053
Found this article, though it interesting, US knew of an outbreak in early November.

China only reported it's first case to the WHO on the 31st December.

11-04-2020 05:13PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

That is superb news. Hopefully the EU can show similar leadership in the coming years. We need to make China pay a very heavy toll indeed for destroying the world economy along with God knows how many lives when this is over.

How did they destroy the world economy? The virus, and individual country's reactions to that virus have caused the world economy to stumble. Which simply shows how vulnerable it has become. It's not destroyed.. drama queen theatrics. :rolleyes:

And we come back to punishing China, and making them pay... but once again, simplistic statements expecting others to make it happen.

thebaz · 11-04-2020 05:15PM

SuperTortoise wrote: »

China only reported it's first case to the WHO on the 31st December.

China were well aware of cases before December , and were aware that transmissions were happening in November, when they encountered the pneumonia outbreaks in Wuhan hospitals.

BanditLuke · 11-04-2020 05:24PM

https://youtu.be/XHsfjnRB-uA

This is all on China. Make so mistake about it. This is the China virus.

bob mcbob · 11-04-2020 05:29PM

2u2me wrote: »

Certainly that's what large parts of what the CCP are about. (banning pictures of winnie the pooh).

But this article unfairly presents a dichotomy when both statements can be true.

The evidence touted in this article is really clutching at straws. You have deleted statements and unverified documents. Interestingly it was penned by their washington correspondent.

Well it couldn't be the China correspondent as there are not many left.
How many were kicked out when China was called "the sick man of Asia"

The Chinese Big Lie

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