Masks

JP Liz V1 · 08-04-2020 10:24PM

No: other

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Was in the two euro shop today, surprised it was open. They had the cheap Chinese knock-offs, the kn95 or something like that. €15 for three masks.

That is scandalous.

Are they reusable ones?

Away With The Fairies · 08-04-2020 10:34PM

Yes: valved

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Are they reusable ones?

I don't know if they were or not. Can you get reusable ones? If so, it's probably not a bad price.

kowloonkev · 09-04-2020 05:37AM

Yes: surgical

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

There's so much people who don't know how to cough or sneeze properly. I hope they start telling people to wear masks here.

They won't advise it because they can't supply them and then they'll get the blame.

Wibbs · 09-04-2020 08:07AM

Yes: other

That's pretty much it K. Plus to go back on the "masks are useless" mantra now would make them(and the WHO) look silly and worse complicit in yet another example of slow thinking on their part. And I use the word thinking advisedly when it comes to the upper echelons of the HSE. They might be able to pull off the "well we didn't know enough and played safe" at the start of this crisis, but with every day, week and month that passes with the examples of nations who did well and nations who did badly clear to see they can't play that card any more to hide their incompetence on a few levels.

Sleeper12 · 09-04-2020 08:31AM

No: other

fr336 wrote: »

How many people on Boards have a mask and if so are you wearing them for essential trips? And this late in the day where can you get one that is going to be half decent and not from a suspect seller who could have done anything to it?

I have some N95 masks I gave up to my sister. I'm out for most of the day working but I don't wear a mask. There is still no actual proof that they are effective unless you have the virus or you are caring for someone with the virus.

They can & will have the opposite effect on a lot of people in Ireland. Next time you are shopping watch the mask wearers. They come in to the store. Mask goes down & mask goes back up again. They will do this over & over again. They will touch things in the store with their contaminated gloves & touch their mask. They pull it down by the bridge, the worst place to touch. They don't even realize that they are doing it. How many do you see with the mask under the chin & back up again? I honestly believe the incorrect use of masks & gloves will help give the virus to more Irish people then save.

We need RTE to have doctors & nurses on TV, late, late show to show over & over again how to use these PPE. Not knowing how to use them is far worse than not wearing them

railer201 · 09-04-2020 08:38AM

Yes: valved

suicide_circus wrote: »

is it 100% that its the masks in the czech rep that is making the difference?

i have my homemade t-shirt mask, i dont feel it does much tbh but who knows.

as a man with a pro mask, do you feel that having the mask influences your opinion that masks are essential? do you see what i'm saying? and i'm not having a dig

The deaths per million of population figures would indicate it is a factor. Czech Republic 10 compared to Ireland 48. The Czechs themselves believe it is making a big difference.

Link here, scroll down to the table and across to the deaths per million figures for each country:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

McGiver · 09-04-2020 08:42AM

No: I don't care enough

railer201 wrote:

The deaths per million of population figures would indicate it is a factor. Czech Republic 10 compared to Ireland 48. The Czechs themselves believe it is making a big difference.

Not really. The major difference is quality of the healthcare system.

Masks have more direct effect on cases per capita which is half than here over there despite double the population density.

Charles Babbage · 09-04-2020 08:59AM

No: I don't care enough

railer201 wrote: »

The deaths per million of population figures would indicate it is a factor. Czech Republic 10 compared to Ireland 48. The Czechs themselves believe it is making a big difference.

Link here, scroll down to the table and across to the deaths per million figures for each country:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

When were masks introduced in Czechia? Deaths are often 3 weeks later than infection.

Wibbs · 09-04-2020 09:00AM

Yes: other

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is still no actual proof that they are effective unless you have the virus or you are caring for someone with the virus.

This line has me scratching my head every single time, a line pushed by HSE so well that it gets repeated verbatim. So they are effective in lowering risk around those infected and those around them who aren't, yet by some weird magical process lose this effectiveness everywhere else?

They can & will have the opposite effect on a lot of people in Ireland. Next time you are shopping watch the mask wearers. They come in to the store. Mask goes down & mask goes back up again. They will do this over & over again. They will touch things in the store with their contaminated gloves & touch their mask. They pull it down by the bridge, the worst place to touch. They don't even realize that they are doing it. How many do you see with the mask under the chin & back up again? I honestly believe the incorrect use of masks & gloves will help give the virus to more Irish people then save.

We have had instructions on hand washing and social distancing. In both cases you can show people aren't following those guidelines either and yet they're in place as risk reducers. We could do the exact same for mask wearing. It's a risk reducer. Let me put it another way S, if someone with no symptoms is infected around you, if they coughed which would you prefer? No mask or one worn half arsed but covering their nose and mouth? I refer you back to the effectiveness for infected people and their carers. That does not magically disappear.

In my travels observing the few mask wearers I have seen, I'd say maybe a third are wearing one correctly(maybe health worker types, or the better informed?) the rest have it badly fitted, but I've not seen the pulling it up and down types yet?

As for simple instructions?

Put it on before leaving the house. Don't take it off or touch it until you come home. Never touch the front of your mask. Wash your hands before and after you touch it.

There you go. Job done. Now you will always have the slow witted morons, but most will do it right most of the time and that reduces risk for all.

Boggles · 09-04-2020 09:02AM

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1248132465861984256

hmmm · 09-04-2020 09:06AM

No: other

Sleeper12 wrote: »

INext time you are shopping watch the mask wearers. They come in to the store. Mask goes down & mask goes back up again. They will do this over & over again. They will touch things in the store with their contaminated gloves & touch their mask. They pull it down by the bridge, the worst place to touch. They don't even realize that they are doing it. How many do you see with the mask under the chin & back up again? I honestly believe the incorrect use of masks & gloves will help give the virus to more Irish people then save.

Agreed, and it's why the wearing of masks is not a black and white recommendation from the WHO and CDC. Sure perfectly worn masks will reduce transmission, but people who don't know how to use them are likely to contaminate themselves, and have a false sense of security - so perhaps not going to adhere to a 2 metre distance.

I think we can forget about advising people to wear masks to protect themselves, most non-professionals won't be able to wear masks properly. This is about trying to stop people from infecting others, and any half-fitting face covering will do to reduce the risk of spreading droplets.

Hamsterchops · 09-04-2020 09:09AM

I want to buy a mask today, how much are they & where can I buy one?

khalessi · 09-04-2020 09:09AM

Yes: surgical

Ok so it is DM reporting on simulation of droplet spread following coughing in supermarket by experts from Finnish University

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8203189/Coronavirus-simulation-shows-single-cough-spread-germans-two-supermarket-aisles.html

And this is why masks would be a good idea

It has been a while since I have worn one and I was aware of not touching my face so the first few times I went to the shop i adjusted it until comfortable, went in to the shop, and then just had a little mantra in my head of

dont touch mask dont touch face

as I walked around. It does become easier the more you get used to wearing them

Wibbs · 09-04-2020 09:12AM

Yes: other

Charles Babbage wrote: »

When were masks introduced in Czechia? Deaths are often 3 weeks later than infection.

Though there was a grassroots adoption of masks before this, it became government policy on the 18th of March. So kinda Patrick's Day by our timeline.

They were also and continue to be far more proactive than our health leadership. After their own shaky start with returning skiers, football match types and the like. They introduced a host of measures pretty quickly when they saw the crisis unfolding. As well as the closing of pubs, cafes and non essential businesses, distancing, masks in public, they also closed their borders to certain countries and then widened that and instigated quarantine and border health checks and drive through testing. They really got on top of it. They essentially copied the practices of places like Taiwan who got a hold on it and adapted to local Czech purposes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_Czech_Republic#Policies_to_fight_the_contagion

IMHO when this is done and dusted the Czechs will be held up as an example of how to fight and win against an epidemic. Ireland's response will be far less feted, especially with our natural and lucky advantages.

thecretinhop · 09-04-2020 09:15AM

Yes: valved

wore an fp3 half mask yesterday in super market not a single look, bout 40pc had masks on. Still shopped fast but least anxious in a while shopping.

otnomart · 09-04-2020 09:19AM

Another thought I had after my first (surgical) masked food shop yesterday.
I noticed a few people wearing a mask with a filter and honestly I kept even a greater distance with them.
How I am supposed to know if they are positive and therefore are breathing out the virus through the filter ?
I would prefer if masks with filters were not allowed to the general public until we get to the stage of having a "virus-free passport", meaning: someone who tested positive and then had two negative tests to confirm she/he has fully recovered; and/or when antibody tests are in place

khalessi · 09-04-2020 09:22AM

Yes: surgical

otnomart wrote: »

Another thought I had after my first (surgical) masked food shop yesterday.
I noticed a few people wearing a mask with a filter and honestly I kept even a greater distance with them.
How I am supposed to know if they are positive and therefore are breathing out the virus through the filter ?
I would prefer if masks with filters were not allowed to the general public until we get to the stage of having a "virus-free passport", meaning: someone who tested positive and then had two negative tests to confirm she/he has fully recovered; and/or when antibody tests are in place

How are they supposed to know you dont hve it either? You wont know but the mask filters the particles you are breathing in.

If you want extra protection wrap a scarf over mask.

The fact you dont know is the reason for wearing a mask when shopping but this wont be said as they are in short supply. If you didnt wear one you aare breathing in droplets

railer201 · 09-04-2020 09:23AM

Yes: valved

Charles Babbage wrote: »

When were masks introduced in Czechia? Deaths are often 3 weeks later than infection.

More than 3 weeks ago, easily google-able btw. Clearly there is no proof that the low figure is actually due to masks, but ordinary logic would suggest that masks stop or at least inhibit the movement of water droplets and aerosols which carry the virus.

Deja Boo · 09-04-2020 09:25AM

Yes: homemade

Simple test for cloth masks...

https://i.imgur.com/ouVpbfS.mp4

.

otnomart · 09-04-2020 09:32AM

khalessi wrote: »

How are they supposed to know you dont hve it either? You wont know but the mask filters the particles you are breathing in.

If you want extra protection wrap a scarf over mask.

The fact you dont know is the reason for wearing a mask when shopping but this wont be said as they are in short supply. If you didnt wear one you aare breathing in droplets

I understood that a surgical mask blocks the "output" much more than a mask with a filter, though ?

So those with a filter are basically breathing out the virus (if they have it) more than me (if I have it) wearing a surgical one ?

kowloonkev · 09-04-2020 09:41AM

Yes: surgical

Of course there are people who don't wear masks properly and aren't careful/educated about using them/touching them/disposing of them. But if most people are responsible it reduces the risk.

Here in Hong Kong I have seen a few old men actually removing the mask in order to sneeze, which is moronic but you always get a few. But most people have been very responsible both in mask wearing, personal hygiene and in their respect for other people. There is no such thing as social distancing here for obvious reasons but community transmitions have been slow as a result of responsible behaviour and proactive thinking amongst the population. Europe and the US was warned weeks in advance. Hong Kong people were wearing masks and adjusting their behaviour in the first week of January as soon as there were about 4 cases in Wuhan.

In the end we should do all we can to reduce the chances of becoming infected and that will in turn reduce our chance of passing it on.

Wibbs · 09-04-2020 09:45AM

Yes: other

otnomart wrote: »

I understood that a surgical mask blocks the "output" much more than a mask with a filter, though ?

So those with a filter are basically breathing out the virus (if they have it) more than me (if I have it) wearing a surgical one ?

Essentially yeah O.

Respirators like this protect you(extremely well), but the filtration is only one way, in. Though there is less breath coming out compared to no mask.

Surgical masks like this protect you and others. Filtration though less effective is in both directions.

I have both types, but would only use the respirator if I had to go into somewhere where the virus was going to be present or if I had to take a taxi or public transport. All unlikely scenarios at the moment, so I wear the surgical mask.

Bob24 · 09-04-2020 10:01AM

otnomart wrote: »

I understood that a surgical mask blocks the "output" much more than a mask with a filter, though ?

So those with a filter are basically breathing out the virus (if they have it) more than me (if I have it) wearing a surgical one ?

By filter, you probably mean exhaust valve?

Yes if there is a valve basically the airflow is only filtered in one direction and the mask is only protecting the person wearing if from breathing in the virus, and it is not preventing them from contaminating others.

Having said that it isn't just surgical masks which prevent people from contaminating others. You can find FFP2/FFP3 respirators without a valve (although they will get a bit uncomfortable if you wear then for a while).

otnomart · 09-04-2020 10:16AM

Bob24 wrote: »

By filter, you probably mean exhaust valve?

Yes if there is a valve basically the airflow is only filtered in one direction the the mask is only protecting the person wearing if from breathing in the virus, and it is not preventing them from contaminating others.

Having said that it isn't just surgical masks which prevent people from contaminating others. You can find FFP2/FFP3 respirators without a valve (although they will get a bit uncomfortable if you wear then for a while).

Yes, thank you, by filter I actually meant the valve.
My point was that I would prefer if masks with valves were not allowed to the general public until we get to the stage of knowing (by testing positive cases after quarantine/recovery and later by antibody testing when reliable) who had the virus already and is safe to walk around with a valve.
Until then, I would prefer that the general public would stick to: surgical, respirators without a valve, or homemade if neither are available.

Bob24 · 09-04-2020 10:30AM

otnomart wrote: »

Yes, thank you, by filter I actually meant the valve.
My point was that I would prefer if masks with valves were not allowed to the general public until we get to the stage of knowing (by testing positive cases after quarantine/recovery and later by antibody testing when reliable) who had the virus already and is safe to walk around with a valve.
Until then, I would prefer that the general public would stick to: surgical, respirators without a valve, or homemade if neither are available.

100% agree. Preventing asymptomatic cases from contaminating other people is a key function of masks/respirators to control the epidemic. So while they are protecting the person wearing better than surgical masks, respirators with a valve are not the best tool to protect the larger community.

As a matter of fact, if absolutely everyone was wearing good quality surgical masks, it would most likely slow the progression of the virus more that everyone wearing a fancy valved FFP3 respirator (if I am contaminated and go to the shop with my valved respirator, I can blow contaminated droplets on an item which someone will then buy and take to their home, while this scenario is unlikely with a good surgical mask).

I have valved FFP3 and non-valved FFP2 respirators; and for now I haven't used the valved ones.

Seanergy · 09-04-2020 12:00PM

Yes: valved

Boggles wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1248132465861984256

That's the ECDC shot fired and judging by their wording they are going to stand tall and firm soon.

Ireland's approach to operating a delay strategy in line with WHO and ECDC advice is going to be caught in crossfire. HSE tactic of relaying advice from these 2 heavyweights is going to be put under pressure.

No doubt HSE will continue to monitor closely but ultimately favour WHO and continue to operate delay strategy.

HSE going to have egg on their face this Easter wknd.

Outlaw Pete · 09-04-2020 12:07PM

Deja Boo wrote: »

Simple test for cloth masks...

https://i.imgur.com/ouVpbfS.mp4

.

What is the spray he's using there?

fryup · 09-04-2020 01:49PM

No: I don't care enough

looks like regular deodorant

railer201 · 09-04-2020 01:54PM

Yes: valved

Here's my version of the DIY cloth mask as per the CDC tutorial >>> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html

It's a very simple design - I've added a central layer of brushed cotton from old pyjamas and the two outside cotton layers are from an old denim shirt. All washed before hand, I hasten to add.

Two old shoe laces form the ear loops, cut to the correct size after trying the mask on for a snug fit, which it is. It does give very full face coverage ok.. I used a sewing machine but it could easily be hand stitched as well.

cdcmask.jpg

fryup · 09-04-2020 02:01PM

No: I don't care enough

^^^^^^^^^^^^

admit it ..you're ashamed to be a Man U fan

Masks

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