CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) Read OP

Wibbs · 04-04-2020 09:04AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In the context of masks, this is an interesting discussion by four experts on the topic. on the matter. One of the contributors, a research scientist called Howard, believes that masks are of such importance that he set up this non profit website which contains links to a lot of research, much of which focuses on the efficacy of homemade masks.

I think at this stage anyone not recommending masks as part of our weaponry along with distancing and hand hygiene against community spread is a thundering fool, and a dangerous one, and should be ignored. I include the official stance by our HSE and people like Dr Cormican in that.

owlbethere · 04-04-2020 09:05AM

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Im just curious as to how the PPE orders turned out to be such a massive cock up. Who ordered them? did they know what they were ordering? Ive just seen more pictures of them on social media and they are ridiculous. You'd see better hygiene and protective wear at a deli counter.

You'd see better hygiene and protective wear at a deli counter - LOL. I love your wording. It's so funny.

rusty the athlete · 04-04-2020 09:05AM

ettravel wrote: »

USA.
will this finally wake the US population up into realising what an unjust , unequal , rat race of a kip they live in.

Doesn't help when the president appears to be clinically insane. Not my words but those of https://worldmhc.org/

To quote:

PATHOLOGICAL NARCISSISM, INFORMATION SUPPRESSION, AND A GLOBAL PANDEMIC

Minneapolis, MN, and nationwide locations — Mental Health Experts specializing in Donald Trump’s type of pathologies conduct an online briefing for the American people regarding Donald Trump’s mental incapacity to lead America’s critical response to the escalating novel coronavirus pandemic.
Quote from Dr. Bandy Lee: “Weeks of mismanagement and dangerous misstatements are costing lives. We must immediately highlight expert information and advice, including those of mental health experts.”

Field east · 04-04-2020 09:05AM

Two aspects of this whole virus issue have not been answered IMO . Maybe some boardie out there can provide some light on them and which are as follows:-
(1) is there a concentration of the virus below which you will not be infected by it ?. Or is it the case that, irrespective of the level of concentration you will get infected if you come in contact with it is on your hands and you fingered your nose. Age probably comes into it as an older persons immunity would not be as robust. Maybe also if one gets infected with a very low concentration of the virus they may not get as sick as someone who was infected with a very high concentration

(2)will keeping food / food packaging in a deep freeze -18C +- kill the virus. Ditto re fridge at around 3C

plodder · 04-04-2020 09:07AM

froog wrote: »

Thats incredibly presumptuous and bad science. Seems to be based solely on X country has a high rate of vaccine and low deaths from Covid. There's thousands of other possible factors that you could pick. "Correlation does not prove causation" is a basic golden rule of epidemiology and stats.

That's a bit strong. It was previously known that BCG helps with other respiratory illnesses as well as TB, which may be why they went looking. Though I thought the IT article was a little too enthusiastic. Trials with health workers re lready underway I think.

Professor Moriarty · 04-04-2020 09:07AM

Wibbs wrote: »

I think at this stage anyone not recommending masks as part of our weaponry along with distancing and hand hygiene against community spread is a thundering fool, and a dangerous one, and should be ignored. I include the official stance by our HSE and people like Dr Cormican in that.

Expect WHO to change their stance very soon and the HSE will follow suit. I suspect that they weren't promoting masks for all because this might mean shortages for healthcare workers.

ChikiChiki · 04-04-2020 09:08AM

Happy4all wrote: »

Thank God we have Danny Healy-Rae

Apples and Oranges. Thank **** Danny Healy Rae is an outcast outside of Kerry with little influence.

Trump on the other hand is the most powerful man on the planet.

Gynoid · 04-04-2020 09:08AM

Field east wrote: »

Two aspects of this whole virus issue have not been answered IMO . Maybe some boardie out there can provide some light on them and which are as follows:-
(1) is there a concentration of the virus below which you will not be infected by it ?. Or is it the case that, irrespective of the level of concentration you will get infected if you come in contact with it is on your hands and you fingered your nose. Age probably comes into it as an older persons immunity would not be as robust. Maybe also if one gets infected with a very low concentration of the virus they may not get as sick as someone who was infected with a very high concentration

(2)will keeping food / food packaging in a deep freeze -18C +- kill the virus. Ditto re fridge at around 3C

On no.1 I saw a video by a Prof of Pathology who said a lower inoculum of the virus at the beginning allows your immune system a chance to rev up and has better outcomes.

Blueshoe · 04-04-2020 09:10AM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Apples and Oranges. Thank **** Danny Healy Rae is an outcast outside of Kerry with little influence.

Trump on the other hand is the most powerful man on the planet.

I think you'll find that the Healy Raes practically own Kerry and are multi millionaires .

Also Jesus is the most powerful man on the planet. Trump is just a man

RandomName2 · 04-04-2020 09:11AM

Good God get a load of this idiot. I can't believe that people actually listen to so-called experts like these. There's no excuse for not knowing something when you can literally google it and get the information in the first couple of results. :mad:

Call me Al · 04-04-2020 09:11AM

froog wrote: »

Thats incredibly presumptuous and bad science. Seems to be based solely on X country has a high rate of vaccine and low deaths from Covid. There's thousands of other possible factors that you could pick. "Correlation does not prove causation" is a basic golden rule of epidemiology and stats.

That's why it isn't policy anywhere, but rather its being trialled, and in the event it doesn't improve rates of severe illness what harm will it do beyond vaccinating some elderly and front line workers from TB.
Its based on several countries having high vaccine rates and low covid deaths.
And research that indicates BCG vaccine programmes reduce a larger number respiratory illness and measles.
I'm sure the scientists doing all the research are well versed in the correlation/causation principle. Maybe almost as well as yourself.

Hardly a waste of time for further research.

Achasanai · 04-04-2020 09:14AM

Lavinia wrote: »

I have heard that in Italy last year Jan to April died more people than this year all together including covid.

Really? I have seen stats suggesting very much the opposite (indicating that the deaths being reported in certain parts of Italy and Spain suggest that they're not reporting the correct figures):

https://twitter.com/J_CD_T/status/1245739661449977867

Wibbs · 04-04-2020 09:15AM

Field east wrote: »

Two aspects of this whole virus issue have not been answered IMO . Maybe some boardie out there can provide some light on them and which are as follows:-
(1) is there a concentration of the virus below which you will not be infected by it ?. Or is it the case that, irrespective of the level of concentration you will get infected if you come in contact with it is on your hands and you fingered your nose. Age probably comes into it as an older persons immunity would not be as robust. Maybe also if one gets infected with a very low concentration of the virus they may not get as sick as someone who was infected with a very high concentration

From what I can gather anyway, though much of this is still up in the air and opinions change daily and are like arseholes, everyone has one

but viral load seems to be a thing alright. And makes sense. If you inhaled say forty viruses it will take more time for those viruses to set up home in cells and start production of more viruses than if you inhaled a thousand.

(2)will keeping food / food packaging in a deep freeze -18C +- kill the virus. Ditto re fridge at around 3C

Just supposition on my part but I would think that freezing viruses would make them viable for longer and the lower the temperatures the longer they'd remain viable. In research centres that stockpile viruses for study to preserve them they freeze them as far as I'm aware. On the other hand heat fecks them right up. It's one reason why we get a fever when we catch a virus. They're very heat sensitive. Heat, oxidisation, ultraviolet light and chemicals like bleach kill them stone dead.

And our own immune systems when they catch up really get medieval on their arses. Our bodies are heaven to viruses when they first show up and then become the most hellish place on earth for them when our bodies respond.

eagle eye · 04-04-2020 09:15AM

rusty the athlete wrote:

Doesn't help when the president appears to be clinically insane. Not my words but those of

I just looked at previous articles on that site and it's clearly anti-Republican.
Why would you post trash like that?

I think Trump is awful, worst President in American history, but let's stay away from crap like that.

caveat emptor · 04-04-2020 09:16AM

I think the whole story around "bad quality" PPE equipment needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

No. not to come over all conspiracy theorist but a few other things may or may not be related.

There was a shortage of equipment for frontline staff
Some of the guidance on what PPE should be worn and when wasn't 100% i.e face shields / goggles.
Large proportion of cases were healthcare workers.

Fairly convenient to blame those "dodgy Chinese". Also deflects from the fact that we had plenty of notice. As soon as it was in Italy the writing was on the wall.

Of course this could all be cleared up if the actual order was made public. Transparency not HSE strong suit given the legal implications that may come down the line.

owlbethere · 04-04-2020 09:17AM

Regarding the BCG vaccine

I read online and I don't know how true it is, the vaccine only gives protection for X number of years because it wears off over time. I forget how many years it says. 12/15/20 years - I don't know.

Lavinia · 04-04-2020 09:17AM

Total number of deaths in Italy for Q1 (comparison):

2020 - 166.407
2019 - 185.967
2018 - 187.991
2017 - 192.045

I don't have those in English, sorry, but these are the numbers

Wibbs · 04-04-2020 09:19AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Good God get a load of this idiot. I can't believe that people actually listen to so-called experts like these. There's no excuse for not knowing something when you can literally google it and get the information in the first couple of results. :mad:

What do you call someone who got the lowest grades in their graduating class at medical school? Doctor.

Authorities on any matter are to be listened to, right up to the point where they start making illogical and/or contradictory or extreme claims. If they're also part of the media, or politics as a career, ramp that suspicion up considerably.

Johnny1999 · 04-04-2020 09:20AM

Wibbs wrote: »

From what I can gather anyway, though much of this is still up in the air and opinions change daily and are like arseholes, everyone has one but viral load seems to be a thing alright. And makes sense. If you inhaled say forty viruses it will take more time for those viruses to set up home in cells and start production of more viruses than if you inhaled a thousand.

Just supposition on my part but I would think that freezing viruses would make them viable for longer and the lower the temperatures the longer they'd remain viable. In research centres that stockpile viruses for study to preserve them they freeze them as far as I'm aware. On the other hand heat fecks them right up. It's one reason why we get a fever when we catch a virus. They're very heat sensitive. Heat, oxidisation, ultraviolet light and chemicals like bleach kill them stone dead.

And our own immune systems when they catch up really get medieval on their arses. Our bodies are heaven to viruses when they first show up and then become the most hellish place on earth for them when our bodies respond.

At cold temperatures virus remain dormant. Until the environment becomes more hospitable to them. 82 degrees c at 30 seconds will kill virus’s.

If you can’t wash food packaging then leave non perishables for 72hours. The virus will die after that.

By washing I mean using soapy water. Not necessarily chemicals to sanitise.

Gynoid · 04-04-2020 09:20AM

Lavinia wrote: »

Total number of deaths in Italy for Q1 (comparison):

2020 - 166.407
2019 - 185.967
2018 - 187.991
2017 - 192.045

I don't have those in English, sorry, but these are the numbers

Thanks.
I would like an explanation of that from anyone.

Silent Running · 04-04-2020 09:20AM

Blueshoe wrote: »

I think you'll find that the Healy Raes practically own Kerry and are multi millionaires .

Also Jesus is the most powerful man on the planet. Trump is just a man

Trump is just a man but Jesus is just a fairy story.

owlbethere · 04-04-2020 09:23AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I think the whole story around "bad quality" PPE equipment needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

No. not to come over all conspiracy theorist but a few other things may or may not be related.
There was a shortage of equipment for frontline staff

Some of the guidance on what PPE should be worn and when wasn't 100% i.e face shields / goggles.

Large proportion of cases were healthcare workers.

Fairly convenient to blame those "dodgy Chinese". Also deflects from the fact that we had plenty of notice. As soon as it was in Italy the writing was on the wall.

Of course this could all be cleared up if the actual order was made public. Transparency not HSE strong suit given the legal implications that may come down the line.

Stop it. Ireland did not have plenty of notice to prepare PPE. This virus was identified as a novel virus in January and it spread so fast. Come February, a lot of countries began reporting of their early cases and there was a scramble every where to boost up supplies of PPE. There's now a worldwide shortage. The HSE had some failings over the years no doubt but you can't blame theme for a worldwide shortage of PPE.

caveat emptor · 04-04-2020 09:26AM

iguana wrote: »

The HSE stopped doing the BCG in 2015. The NHS had stopped at some point before that as my son was born in the UK in 2012 and the BCG wasn't on his vaccine schedule. I got him booked in for it once we moved home. But the vast, vast majority of people in Ireland have had the BCG surely? And a reasonable amount of older-elderly people actually had TB and as such tend to have stronger antibodies than someone who's antibodies developed from vaccination.

"but Ireland has had no BCG vaccine since May 2015 and no children have been vaccinated since then, the HSE confirmed."

That's worrying. Whole lot of kids not inoculated if there is a benefit. Italy apparently has very low levels of the vaccine and the kids are grand so that's positive. What is interesting is that in some parts of london the Incidence of TB is on par with some African countries yet vaccine wasn't offered.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/tuberculosis-vaccine-potential-game-changer-in-covid-19-fight-1.4220383

rusty the athlete · 04-04-2020 09:30AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Good God get a load of this idiot.

A doctor of what precisely?

tobefrank321 · 04-04-2020 09:31AM

owlbethere wrote: »

Stop it. Ireland did not have plenty of notice to prepare PPE. This virus was identified as a novel virus in January and it spread so fast. Come February, a lot of countries began reporting of their early cases and there was a scramble every where to boost up supplies of PPE. There's now a worldwide shortage. The HSE had some failings over the years no doubt but you can't blame theme for a worldwide shortage of PPE.

Leo told us there'd be 15,000 cases 3 weeks ago.

caveat emptor · 04-04-2020 09:31AM

owlbethere wrote: »

Stop it. Ireland did not have plenty of notice to prepare PPE. This virus was identified as a novel virus in January and it spread so fast. Come February, a lot of countries began reporting of their early cases and there was a scramble every where to boost up supplies of PPE. There's now a worldwide shortage. The HSE had some failings over the years no doubt but you can't blame theme for a worldwide shortage of PPE.

You stop it. Seriously? You didn't think that would become an issue. I must admit I got a few strange looks off the wife in January when I ordered and received industrial level PPE (i.e can't be used in a medical setting but has the same effect) but she didn't question.

What upsets you more? That frontline workers weren't properly protected or that our government/HSE didn't have the foresight and decided to wait for the pandemic to reach these shores before they got their orders in. It was entirely predictable I'm afraid.

speckle · 04-04-2020 09:31AM

Thanyou for all the links. Excellant informative post.

ShayNanigan wrote: »

Found more. This was actually reported in several newspapers here in Ireland.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/coronavirus-face-masks-dublin-sold-17689683

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/big-surge-number-face-masks-21429258

Other countries. These are some of the articles I could find.

Chinese oil company urging Chinese to send home supplies:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-07/china-implores-employees-and-clients-to-scour-world-for-masks

USA:

China’s virus outbreak triggers a global run on face masks

"While the rush is global, Chinese people living abroad have been buying masks - especially the popular N95 variant made by 3M Co. - to send back to family members or resell them online, often via Tencent's WeChat messaging app."

Canada:

Brossard's Chinese community shipping masks to loved ones in China

Estonia:

Chinese man living in Tallinn sends 20,000 masks to China

UK:

Chinese students and tourists buy 12,000 face masks in Edinburgh pharmacy to send home to families

Sweden:

https://www.vk.se/2020-02-28/coronaviruset-hyllorna-med-andningsskydd-ekar-tomma-i-umea

“It is largely Chinese who, since the outbreak of the corona virus, have visited Procurator to provide themselves, but also friends and acquaintances, with respiratory protection. Some have even bought shelter to send them to needy people in China.”

Finland:

Face masks and hand sanitizer disappear from stores: Finland’s Chinese send goods to fight coronavirus

Finnish Chinese have delivered more than one hundred thousand face masks to China to control the coronavirus

That's all I could find for now but it has been very organised behaviour. But can I blame them? No. Now it's us trying to find supplies wherever we can.

wadacrack · 04-04-2020 09:33AM

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1246135176461254657

wadacrack · 04-04-2020 09:34AM

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1246135254685036544

04-04-2020 09:36AM

I'm sure others have commented on it, but the front page of Indo rankled this morning ("You don't have to read it", I bought it for my father). Editor must be in cloud cuckoo land aka D4 if they think it struck an appropriate tone. There's Donal Skehan grinning mirthlessly, "planning to fly the family home from the US on Wednesday. Lock, stock and barrel - but temporarily". Whoever greenlights this manure doesn't possess any tact. Here's a better message to convey, "stay the f*ck where you are you entitled ionsach".

CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

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CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) Read OP