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Masks

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  • #332
    rossie1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,443 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Same in China. It was against the law to be outside without a mask.

    If everyone wears masks the odds on coronavirus being in the air to begin with diminishes.


  • #333
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Yes: surgical
    I just picked up some in Chapelizod pharmacy, 5 for a tenner. Not too bad.


  • #334
    Pretzill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,756 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    Yes: surgical
    ixoy wrote: »
    Anyone have a feeling for how useful dust masks are (the fairly disposable kind, like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Cone-88240_1920.jpg)? I've got a couple of these - I've been saving them for now, while the infection rates are relatively low but I can't find much online about their usefulness. Not as good as some others obviously as they've no real filter.

    I have come to the conclusion that anything is better than nothing, both from reading here and from hearing about countries asking their citezins to make their own. If anyone feels they are depriving our health services by purchasing medical masks there are lots of pollution type filter bicycle masks for sale, they may not be as effective but I think it's just keeping those mucas membrane areas with a barrier when out an about, it's important.


  • #335
    Seanergy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Just heard from the radio that there is going to be facemask discussion on primtime tonight, rte1 9:35 the radio that there will be facemask talk on primetime tonight rte1 @9:35"]radio[/URL]


  • #336
    Irish_peppa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Irish_peppa


    Yes: surgical
    I hope this mask wearing is not something that will become a thing we need to do in coming years. I used to see clips on youtube of people walking around china with surgical masks and say to myself "jasus thank god we live on this little green island with a big ocean encapsulating us with fresh air, imaging going for a summer stroll in city centre wearing a mask, or having to put one on to go shopping with your family"
    :(


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  • #337
    dublin99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭dublin99


    ixoy wrote: »
    Anyone have a feeling for how useful dust masks are (the fairly disposable kind, like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Cone-88240_1920.jpg)? I've got a couple of these - I've been saving them for now, while the infection rates are relatively low but I can't find much online about their usefulness. Not as good as some others obviously as they've no real filter.

    https://fastlifehacks.com/n95-vs-ffp/


  • #338
    beolight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 624 ✭✭✭beolight


    stratowide wrote: »
    This is straight out of Yes prime minister.

    Primeminister "We don't have enough masks for everyone.We have barely enough for frontline staff.What can we do..?"

    Sir Humphrey "Tell them the masks are useless and will not work for ordinary citizens."

    Primeminister "What are you saying,they wont believe such spin.?"

    Sir Humphrey "Oh but they will Primeminister...and when we have enough masks for everyone we'll give them out for free and force everyone to wear them."

    Primeminister "By jove Humphrey you're a genius."

    Well done

    This deserves a thread of its own we could an Irish Taoiseach one, a Boris one and a Trump one 😷


  • #339
    Pretzill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,756 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    Yes: surgical
    There's an Irish Times article titled "Should Everyone be wearing masks" but it's unhelpfully behind a paywall - I saw it on Facebook and some comments saying no...it's worse to wear them - but how can it be worse? I mean having one one shouldn't do you any harm - where is this idea coming from that people touch their face more with a mask on? They may touch the mask more...but if it's a disposable one it's getting binned and if it's cloth it's getting a hot wash - Can't see us peeling our faces off after a quick visit to the shops :rolleyes:


  • #340
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    Seanergy wrote: »
    Just heard from the radio that there is going to be facemask discussion on primtime tonight, rte1 9:35 the radio that there will be facemask talk on primetime tonight rte1 @9:35"]radio[/URL]
    Pretzill wrote: »
    There's an Irish Times article titled "Should Everyone be wearing masks" but it's unhelpfully behind a paywall -
    I'll bet the farm now that they're both going to peddle the HSE "advice". I'd be gobsmacked if RTE didn't.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #341
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,045 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Pretzill wrote: »
    They may touch the mask more...but if it's a disposable one it's getting binned and if it's cloth it's getting a hot wash
    Quite likely that people might reuse disposable ones - they're pretty hard to come by as is - and I'm guessing the idea is they'd touch the outer surface when reusing them where the germs still are and pass it on that way?


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  • #342
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,108 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    ixoy wrote: »
    Quite likely that people might reuse disposable ones - they're pretty hard to come by as is - and I'm guessing the idea is they'd touch the outer surface when reusing them where the germs still are and pass it on that way?

    Someone posted a guide from John Hopkins on how to sanitize masks for re-use.

    The virus needs moisture when outside the body to stay viable, or it breaks down. Non respirator type masks will get damp with use, from the humidity of exhaled breath so you can sanitize them by placing them in a warm oven at 50-70° C for an hour. Once they are bone dry, any virus is kaput.


  • #343
    SuperRabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭SuperRabbit


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Someone posted a guide from John Hopkins on how to sanitize masks for re-use.

    The virus needs moisture when outside the body to stay viable, or it breaks down. Non respirator type masks will get damp with use, from the humidity of exhaled breath so you can sanitize them by placing them in a warm oven at 50-70° C for an hour. Once they are bone dry, any virus is kaput.

    seeing as how it can live on dry cardboard for 24 hours, I'd add 24 hours to that, or 72 if it's plastic fibres

    Dr, Aaron video from Healthcare Triage was saying they aren't certain yet that lowish heat kills it when someone asked a question about 100 degrees F... but then that's only 37 degrees C! If 37 degrees C killed it then fever would kill it and we'd be sorted


  • #344
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SuperRabbit wrote: »
    seeing as how it can live on dry cardboard for 24 hours, I'd add 24 hours to that, or 72 if it's plastic fibres

    Dr, Aaron video from Healthcare Triage was saying they aren't certain yet that lowish heat kills it when someone asked a question about 100 degrees F... but then that's only 37 degrees C! If 37 degrees C killed it then fever would kill it and we'd be sorted

    The official process here is high temperature steam for one time reuse of ffp2 and ffp3, with a slight reduction in quality (ffp3 -> ffp2). 121°C, but that's for also sterilising certain bacteria, 80°C steam covers most viruses.. doing it the dry heat way takes much longer (hours instead of minutes) and doing it with non lab level equipment will take longer still.


  • #345
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,108 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    SuperRabbit wrote: »
    seeing as how it can live on dry cardboard for 24 hours, I'd add 24 hours to that, or 72 if it's plastic fibres

    Dr, Aaron video from Healthcare Triage was saying they aren't certain yet that lowish heat kills it when someone asked a question about 100 degrees F... but then that's only 37 degrees C! If 37 degrees C killed it then fever would kill it and we'd be sorted

    If your mask is not made of flammable material, Lin said, you can try putting it in an oven for 30 minutes at 158 degrees Fahrenheit, because the coronavirus is fragile. Doing so can kill off the virus, and “it doesn’t destroy the mask very much,”
    that's 70°, by the way.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/reuse-face-mask-coronavirus_l_5e78dbf9c5b63c3b6494ad80?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMfnPOSnW53aAsp328BdJcasikijy5B0RZd9d2jdhJcS03e5z6a3FCY2ITla48G_C5rVum2tvkZAGKnCYeoTyWOOUWhbMI7eHFVa-AqWRaljs28ACiaTiC_kG893n8C7XpVcS9qWIx-w9lY4DkvDAHVNqSfHl840CT1WLAAGI5Z_


  • #346
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Yes: other
    ixoy wrote: »
    Quite likely that people might reuse disposable ones - they're pretty hard to come by as is - and I'm guessing the idea is they'd touch the outer surface when reusing them where the germs still are and pass it on that way?

    I guess you could argue that if the mask has the virus, the wearer would have got it without the mask, so you are still ahead even if you reuse a mask. (now if you start sharing masks, thats obviously not good)


  • #347
    SuperRabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭SuperRabbit


    Five Spanish Pharmacists have died:
    "We are not seeking subsidies, we are not asking for economic aid, we only ask for protective gear...so we can continue providing our service, so no more pharmacies close."

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0402/1128042-spain-coronavirus/

    Maybe we can get a separate thread on mask making? If we can make cotton masks they can be washed with soap and water and they are better than nothing. I have some wire (enough for a few masks), elastic (enough for 2 or 3 masks) and old clothes (loads!) but I don't have a sewing machine, if anyone has a sewing machine but no wire / cotton / elastic...


  • #348
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Yes: valved
    Wibbs is the go-to man on this, and I suggested a stickie for home-made masks since the Irish government cannot supply them:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113030821&postcount=253


  • #349
    fr336
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    Yes: surgical
    Anyone brave enough to estimate how much even a basic mask will increase your protection, in % terms? Wibbs I'm looking at you! Not seeking genuine advice as it is obviously too much of an unknown in reality.


  • #350
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    I wear a mask to protect you , you wear a mask to protect me .


  • #351
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,217 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Yes: valved
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-european-solidarity-sidelined-as-french-interests-take-priority-1.4216184
    Coronavirus: European solidarity sidelined as French interests take priority
    Row over face masks exposes threat to EU principles of free trade and collaboration

    Mölnlycke’s entire stock of an estimated six million masks was seized by the French.

    All had been contracted for, including a million masks each for France, Italy and Spain. The rest were destined for Belgium, the Netherlands, Portugal and Switzerland, which has special trading status with the EU.


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  • #352
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    Kivaro wrote: »
    Wibbs is the go-to man on this, and I suggested a stickie for home-made masks since the Irish government cannot supply them:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113030821&postcount=253
    I'm kinda not K. I'm as much use as tits on a bull as I'm not a mod in this forum so can't put up a stickie. Though I think it's a good idea. I've had a couple of PM's from folks who could help in practical terms with tooling and the like, so a one stop shop stickie would defo help for such folks to be able to get things running. real community effort. Boards.ie Now You're Masking. :)
    fr336 wrote: »
    Anyone brave enough to estimate how much even a basic mask will increase your protection, in % terms? Wibbs I'm looking at you! Not seeking genuine advice as it is obviously too much of an unknown in reality.
    It will definitely increase your protection and decrease your risk F. That's not in doubt as if they didn't health professionals wouldn't use them. The more people that wear them the better as that way they cut down the risk in both directions of transmission as well as infection. Like Iamwhoiam just said I wear a mask to protect you , you wear a mask to protect me.

    But even you just wearing a basic surgical mask correctly will reduce your risk of having viral droplets getting into your airways F. The N95 type step up that protection to some degree. At the top of the tree as far as protection goes are PP3 respirators(military gas masks would be the same, or better depending on filter attached). They're what health professionals wear in epidemic scenarios outside of full external positive pressure air supply suit environments. Their disadvantage is the exhaled air isn't filtered(though it would catch some exhaled stuff), so they're pretty much all about personal protection rather than I protect you, you protect me.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #353
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,108 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    biko wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-european-solidarity-sidelined-as-french-interests-take-priority-1.4216184

    That's Ok, Ireland wouldn't do that, it would rather see nurses and doctors die so long as a certain firm in Limerick can continue to fulfill Chinese and middle east orders of over a million a week this last month or two.


  • #354
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    biko wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-european-solidarity-sidelined-as-french-interests-take-priority-1.4216184
    That's definitely going to be an increasing issue as people die and tempers fray. That's actually my biggest worry about this virus "war" that it could spill over into actual armed conflict.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #355
    BrianD3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,793 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Prime Time was quite good IMO.
    Anyone brave enough to estimate how much even a basic mask will increase your protection, in % terms
    There was a small study which I think has been mentioned in this thread which estimated that wearing a mask could reduce the chance of getting the flu from an infected person in a domestic setting from 17% to 5%. That is a significant benefit for an individual and would be very significant on a population level in a pandemic situation.

    Also, IIRC that was a "One Way" study. If everyone who is or might be infected wears a mask and everyone who isn't infected also wears a mask,that could be massive if applied on a population level. With various assumptions of course - that people practice good hand hygiene, use the mask correctly (not rocket science) and don't get the idea that they can take extra risks because they are wearing a mask.


  • #356
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,108 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    fr336 wrote: »
    Anyone brave enough to estimate how much even a basic mask will increase your protection, in % terms? Wibbs I'm looking at you! Not seeking genuine advice as it is obviously too much of an unknown in reality.

    Well noting cat-calls of flaws in the study, 70% reduction for constant out and about mask wearing.
    https://medium.com/@Cancerwarrior/covid-19-why-we-should-all-wear-masks-there-is-new-scientific-rationale-280e08ceee71


  • #357
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    cnocbui wrote: »
    That's Ok, Ireland wouldn't do that, it would rather see nurses and doctors die so long as a certain firm in Limerick can continue to fulfill Chinese and middle east orders of over a million a week this last month or two.
    I hear you C, but I would suggest that this is the perfect time for Ireland to remain neutral on this. Fulfil orders fairly if they were placed fairly. We're already in the advantaged position of our population density, ability to feed ourselves if it came to that and so far some wriggle room in health care. Add the "ah sure the Irish are grand" which is a common feeling worldwide. A rare set of things for a western nation. We need to keep that to the forefront. Because when this sh1t settles the world will need to deal with each other again and we should be thinking along those lines and keep out of the squabbles and sabre rattling.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #358
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    biko wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-european-solidarity-sidelined-as-french-interests-take-priority-1.4216184
    Germany banned exports of PPE's before them. LIke I say I reckon we need to keep out of this stuff. If we did the same as the Czech republic and started grassroots production of masks that would make a big difference as far as our supply lines go. And would drop the R0 number and result in fewer infected people needing hospitals. Win win really.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #359
    fr336
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    Yes: surgical
    Last post for a while I promise (though to be fair I did start the thread :pac:) but how would I clean this? Or can I just leave it out in the air? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-8822-FP2-ONE-Respirator-Valved-Mask-Made-in-UK-Expiry-2023-Medica-Gloves/313043771497?hash=item48e2dce069:g:I~wAAOSwPRtegiTG/


  • #360
    BrianD3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,793 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Jesus, the more I think about this the clearer it seems:

    -basic cheap social distancing measures (tape on the floor and some signs) with buy in from the population such as I witnessed in Tesco today.
    -a culture of mask wearing in many situations
    -hand washing
    -our natural advantages of low population density, relatively good air quality

    Could we have gotten out of this situation very lightly without having to go into "lockdown" which will cost us billions and affect our ability to fund health and other public services going forward.


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  • #361
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    BrianD3 wrote: »
    Could we have gotten out of this situation very lightly without having to go into "lockdown" which will cost us billions and affect our ability to fund health and other public services going forward.
    We're also quite a socially complaint and community and homogeneous culture compared to many.

    The problem is B, the politicians and the HSE are mostly doing a good job because of our advantages and for everything else they're listening to the WHO and taking a largely softly softly approach. If the WHO said tomorrow that for example community masks were an essential part of this fight, you can bet the farm that Leo and the lads would be on RTE at 9 announcing this.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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