CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) Read OP

facehugger99 · 02-04-2020 02:40PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Maybe all this is a sign that we need to work on improving our economic system so it doesn't collapse as a result of trying to save lives?

The way people go on about the economy as if it's some immutable force of nature is fecking weird. We have the power to fix the economy. At the moment, we don't have the power to fix this virus.

And I'm sure that you'll, as usual, have some great actual suggestions, as opposed to meaningless soundbites.

tobefrank321 · 02-04-2020 02:41PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

6.7 million Americans have filed for unemployment assistance within space of a week, a record

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-02/u-s-jobless-claims-doubled-to-record-6-65-million-last-week?srnd=premium-europe

And that's just for a short term lockdown. Imagine a long term one. Industries like airlines and manufacturers like Boeing and Airbus in Europe would be in serious trouble. Also car manfacturers.

I've been in favour of a short term lockdown but economically its not sustainable for longer than 6 weeks. Governments and medical officials have to come up with a better and possibly radical plan to lift lockdowns while also controlling the spread of covid19.

02-04-2020 02:42PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Maybe all this is a sign that we need to work on improving our economic system so it doesn't collapse as a result of trying to save lives?

The way people go on about the economy as if it's some immutable force of nature is fecking weird. We have the power to fix the economy. At the moment, we don't have the power to fix this virus.

Its not as easy as just clicking your fingers and "fixing the economy"

ongarite · 02-04-2020 02:45PM

Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote: »

Why not borrow to tide us over?

We are on track for a minimum deficit of 16 billion if this goes on for another 2 months.
30 billion if this lock-down goes on until September.

That's over 4 times bigger than the banking bailout which had this country on its knees for 10 years.

We will have to get the service industry back up and running within 2 months or the whole population is screwed, not just the vulnerable to this pandemic.

Funsterdelux · 02-04-2020 02:47PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Maybe all this is a sign that we need to work on improving our economic system so it doesn't collapse as a result of trying to save lives?

The way people go on about the economy as if it's some immutable force of nature is fecking weird. We have the power to fix the economy. At the moment, we don't have the power to fix this virus.

Agreed

The economy is a force that destroys nature, its economies that make struggling people venture further into the wilderness, where we havent been before and where these deadly viruses live. Its our globalist economy that has caused this pandemic, its not a bat's fault.

DOCARCH · 02-04-2020 02:47PM

ongarite wrote: »

We are on track for a minimum deficit of 16 billion if this goes on for another 2 months.
30 billion if this lock-down goes on until September.

That's over 4 times bigger than the banking bailout which had this country on its knees for 10 years.

We will have to get the service industry back up and running within 2 months or the whole population is screwed, not just the vulnerable to this pandemic.

I thought bank bail out was about 65 billion? Could be wrong.

tobefrank321 · 02-04-2020 02:48PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

And I'm sure that you'll, as usual, have some great actual suggestions, as opposed to meaningless soundbites.

That's a bit harsh. Maybe you will come up with suggestions yourself?

MipMap · 02-04-2020 02:48PM

fits wrote: »

I dont have access to a mask except for a respirator used for spraying chemicals which looks terrifying.

Tried to wear a snood over my face for grocery shopping last week and it kept on falling out of place resulting in my touching of face to try and fix it, so I gave up. Id wear a mask if I had one though - just not the scary respirator.

Just looking at the articles from the CDC and a few interviews on RTE News and BBC News. I'm guessing they are going to start suggesting people make their own. RTE has a spot on today where some ladies somewhere are running them up on their sewing machines at home.

The idea that Joe Public could cause a run on medical masks is a bit of a Red Herring. The ones that came in from China last week were delivered by Army trucks to the HSE. Even Care Home Staff couldn't get their hands on them for a while.

Naggdefy · 02-04-2020 02:49PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure we'll be borrowing for years. the only questions are who from, how much and for how long.

€200bn of debt and rising - out great-grandkids will be paying it off for us

FFS! Economy hype merchant.

caveat emptor · 02-04-2020 02:49PM

ongarite wrote: »

We are on track for a minimum deficit of 16 billion if this goes on for another 2 months.
30 billion if this lock-down goes on until September.

That's over 4 times bigger than the banking bailout which had this country on its knees for 10 years.

We will have to get the service industry back up and running within 2 months or the whole population is screwed, not just the vulnerable to this pandemic.

Eh maths are way off there.

So only costs 3 quarters of something that didn't benefit 95% of the population.
Was it worth paying €41.7bn to bail out Irish banks?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/was-it-worth-paying-41-7bn-to-bail-out-irish-banks-1.4036792

02-04-2020 02:49PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

As opposed to your own daily contribution of crying about the economy?

I'm not claiming to have the solutions. I'm saying that protecting something we can change if we're willing at the cost of thousands of lives is fecking weird.

I didn't say it was easy, I said it was possible.

Do you not accept that a bajaxed economy has a human cost? An increased number of deaths through depression, addiction, suicide, poor public health, and an even more underfunded heath system? Its just that those deaths are hard to quantify, unlike COVID-19, which makes them easy to dismiss by those that just want to lockdown forever

kilkenny31 · 02-04-2020 02:51PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its not as easy as just clicking your fingers and "fixing the economy"

It can be relatively quick if the ECB and the EU step up to the plate. This is make or break for the Euro in my opinion. If governments are restricted from taking drastic measures because of the ECB or German/Dutch obsession with inflation and Debt we will see revolt in Italy, France and Spain.

Ger Roe · 02-04-2020 02:51PM

ongarite wrote: »

We are on track for a minimum deficit of 16 billion if this goes on for another 2 months.
30 billion if this lock-down goes on until September.

That's over 4 times bigger than the banking bailout which had this country on its knees for 10 years.

We will have to get the service industry back up and running within 2 months or the whole population is screwed, not just the vulnerable to this pandemic.

The whole world is screwed - there will be some radical rethinking required from all our overlords (local, national, international) to avoid mass revolt. The entire concept of debt and and repayment between institutions and countries will have to be reviewed and some imaginative solutions implemented.

The economic rule books and the basis of international economic cooperation will be rewritten after this event. Hopefully for the better and in the interests of everybody.

Tony EH · 02-04-2020 02:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not accept that a bajaxed economy has a human cost? An increased number of deaths through depression, addiction, suicide, poor public health, and an even more underfunded heath system? Its just that those deaths are hard to quantify, unlike COVID-19, which makes them easy to dismiss by those that just want to lockdown forever

You sound ridiculous.

BLIZZARD7 · 02-04-2020 02:53PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure we'll be borrowing for years. the only questions are who from, how much and for how long.

€200bn of debt and rising - out great-grandkids will be paying it off for us

Nah, either the ECB will issue Coronabonds or the debt from this will carry a 0% or negative Interest rate. Creative economics is the only way out of this- any austerity led fix will result in the collapse of the EU etc, I.e it won't happen.

tobefrank321 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. Maybe you will come up with suggestions yourself?

This ^ we have to save lives to save the economy. There is no economy without people. What's the alternative?

tobefrank321 · 02-04-2020 02:53PM

Don't worry when this is all over, the Germans will be coming for their pound of flesh in the form of crippling austerity. Every last cent borrowed will have to be paid back and with interest.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-04-2020 02:54PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Eh maths are way off there.

So only costs 3 quarters of something that didn't benefit 95% of the population.
Was it worth paying €41.7bn to bail out Irish banks?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/was-it-worth-paying-41-7bn-to-bail-out-irish-banks-1.4036792

Not this again.

If the measures taken were not taken the country would have no money today to deal with the crisis.

This country would be locked out of the financial markets, bankrupt and unable to borrow a cent.

It's as simple as that.

Some just don't want to believe it and will never understand it.

Get over it.

02-04-2020 02:54PM

Tony EH wrote: »

You sound ridiculous.

You think that the sentiment in the post is ridiculous?

Tony EH · 02-04-2020 02:55PM

BLIZZARD7 wrote: »

What's the alternative?

The "alternative" is carrying on as normal and not giving a shit about the people who contract the virus and die.

MipMap · 02-04-2020 02:55PM

DOCARCH wrote: »

I thought bank bail out was about 65 billion? Could be wrong.

You are not wrong. Anglo and Irish Nationwide took half of that and it went right down the toilet.

MOR316 · 02-04-2020 02:55PM

Ger Roe wrote: »

The economic rule books and the basis of international economic cooperation will be rewritten after this event. Hopefully for the better and in the interests of everybody.

Tony EH · 02-04-2020 02:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You think that the sentiment in the post is ridiculous?

Nobody wants a lockdown "forever". Yes, you sound ridiculous.

shocksy · 02-04-2020 02:56PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Don't worry when this is all over, the Germans will be coming for their pound of flesh in the form of crippling austerity. Every last cent borrowed will have to be paid back and with interest.

The Germans can go f*ck themselves. The rest of the EU aren't going to lie down to their austerity measures after this.

jobeenfitz · 02-04-2020 02:56PM

Any one of us could have this virus unless we have zero contact with outside world. It's hard to have zero contact if you want to eat or if you live with someone else.

We know infected people can spray virus by coughing, sneezing, shouting and maybe while just talking. Some times they contaminate goods we buy or just things we touch.

Now if ur wearing a mask it prevents the spread by these methods . It's common sense.

The availability can be solved. You don't need a mask fit for the operating table.

Im in Spain and anytime I've been to shop since lockdown over two weeks ago, virtually everyone was wearing a mask.

If people start dying in big numbers people will change their mind and wear masks.

tobefrank321 · 02-04-2020 02:59PM

Ger Roe wrote: »

The whole world is screwed - there will be some radical rethinking required from all our overlords (local, national, international) to avoid mass revolt. The entire concept of debt and and repayment between institutions and countries will have to be reviewed and some imaginative solutions implemented.

The economic rule books and the basis of international economic cooperation will be rewritten after this event. Hopefully for the better and in the interests of everybody.

I wonder what would happen if everyone everywhere cancelled the debts they were owed and owe. Has anyone ever looked into it?

The Chinese for example are owed a sh*tload of money from countries.

It would be entirely perverse if we had to borrow from them to pay for this mess. Really they should cancel all debts they are owed as a starting point.

facehugger99 · 02-04-2020 02:59PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why are you so intent on protecting a system that you admit yourself collapses at the slightest hint of trouble?

Why haven't you come up with a single alternative to that system yet?

DOCARCH · 02-04-2020 02:59PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Don't worry when this is all over, the Germans will be coming for their pound of flesh in the form of crippling austerity. Every last cent borrowed will have to be paid back and with interest.

Germans will not be looking for anything!

Last time it was a banking crisis and basically country vs country being vindictive and trying to protect their own interests. This is different in that it's world vs virus and we are all in the same boat.

Ger Roe · 02-04-2020 02:59PM

MOR316 wrote: »

I did say 'hopefully'.

MipMap · 02-04-2020 02:59PM

jobeenfitz wrote: »

If people start dying in big numbers people will change their mind and wear masks.

Indeed, but it is sad that we have to wait for that first.

Pity we can't learn from China, Italy and Spain.

Ace2007 · 02-04-2020 03:00PM

Moving away from masks, I think one area that needs to change are supermarkets and shops. - you cannot pick up anything unless you are buying it - this idea of picking up something and then changing mind - or better yet fruit to see if apple looks ok etc should stop

CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

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CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) Read OP