Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Ballso · 02-04-2020 12:53PM

aido79 wrote: »

They really are on the ball. Louise only asked them to step up the plate yesterday. I'm impressed...are you?

Truly incredible performance from SF here. Only 12 hours after Francie picked up some soundbite from rte news and he and his comrades have forced the evil elites in big pharma to change tack

They'll have housing and health sorted in an afternoon as soon as they get in, joy.

Runaways · 02-04-2020 12:53PM

They’re lying about the numbers? Surely not

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1245067303626199046?s=21

Ballso · 02-04-2020 12:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have to admit...I thought the 'testing denials' debacle and climbdown were as good as it got with FGers/Greens embarassing themselves on here.
The egg on face and the desperation to rescue something from the pharma stuff is a sight to behold though.

Francie, nothing that is happening has anything to do with you. Problems are being identified and resolved as they arise. This is an unprecedented situation, there is no manual.

Your input is irrelevant. When the next problem comes to the fore, your ranting and raving about it until somebody else resolves it will still be utterly irrelevant.

FrancieBrady · 02-04-2020 01:08PM

Ballso wrote: »

Francie, nothing that is happening has anything to do with you. Problems are being identified and resolved as they arise. This is an unprecedented situation, there is no manual.

Your input is irrelevant. When the next problem comes to the fore, your ranting and raving about it until somebody else resolves it will still be utterly irrelevant.

As I said, the:

desperation to rescue something

is funny in the extreme.

Like the hula bulo and outrage about the temerity to mention 'issues' with testing. Hilarious to see the indignation now that another of the FG/green alliance arguments has been shown to be based on a hill of beans.

joeguevara · 02-04-2020 01:09PM

Runaways wrote: »

They’re lying about the numbers? Surely not

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1245067303626199046?s=21

What is your point on this. Instead of simply quoting, critically analyse it. On Sunday they were doing 5000 tests. On Wednesday/Thursday they are doing 1500 because of lack of tests. That’s not lying about numbers. Stop spreading fake news.

Now if you had said it’s a disgrace that we are running out of tests I would agree with you. But don’t lie.

aido79 · 02-04-2020 01:11PM

Ballso wrote: »

Francie, nothing that is happening has anything to do with you. Problems are being identified and resolved as they arise. This is an unprecedented situation, there is no manual.

Your input is irrelevant. When the next problem comes to the fore, your ranting and raving about it until somebody else resolves it will still be utterly irrelevant.

Francie, nothing that is happening has anything to do with Sinn Fein. Problems are being identified and resolved as they arise. This is an unprecedented situation, there is no manual.

Sinn Fein's input is irrelevant. When the next problem comes to the fore, their ranting and raving about it until somebody else resolves it will still be utterly irrelevant.

Mortelaro · 02-04-2020 01:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why characterise it as 'raiding' it?

All we need to do to release that money is drop our objection as a state to taking it.

.

Claptrap or ignorance or both

If the Irish government did that,it would be into another escrow for years whilst other government treasuries principally the U.S sued to recover 99.9% of it

maccored · 02-04-2020 01:22PM

Ballso wrote: »

Here's another intellectual giant taking time out of his busy day at the top of his industry to grace us with his expertise. What your speciality caller? Reagent production? Antibody analytics? Medical device manufacturing?

is yours talking rubbish? - as thats all your post is. God but you're so funny and smart and hilarious etc etc etc. i am actually busy today working. sorry I cant post all day like yourself

FrancieBrady · 02-04-2020 01:22PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Claptrap or ignorance or both

If the Irish government did that,it would be into another escrow for years whilst other government treasuries principally the U.S sued to recover 99.9% of it

Link to that?

Or are we international law experts today?

Fann Linn · 02-04-2020 01:25PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Link to that?

Or are we international law experts today?

Calls to mind all those millions in fines per day by the EU for not having water charges. FG daydreams.

Sultan_of_Ping · 02-04-2020 01:26PM

Runaways wrote: »

They’re lying about the numbers? Surely not

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1245067303626199046?s=21

Read very carefully what was written.....it is more than possible to have the "capacity" to do something but not operate at that capacity - for example, Lansdowne Road has capacity of 55,000 or thereabouts - if only 10,000 attend a match and the FAI say "only 10,000 attended the match" - then they are not lying - simply relaying facts.....

tikkahunter · 02-04-2020 01:31PM

maccored wrote: »

is yours talking rubbish? - as thats all your post is. God but you're so funny and smart and hilarious etc etc etc. i am actually busy today working. sorry I cant post all day like yourself

Still waiting on you to tell us what facts where a joke ???

Mortelaro · 02-04-2020 01:37PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Link to that?

Or are we international law experts today?

My other half is actually and I'm a trained Economist (though I sometimes wonder if the profession I stumbled into after that is in direct contradiction:D)

There are plenty of articles on the apple money and who is claiming it
The Irish government know they'd get less of it than they do currently if the EU commission won its case which is why they're joining apple fighting it
Apple of course can keep 97% plus if they win
None if they lose
The 2nd reason of course why the Irish government are fighting it,is they want to keep and attract 1000s of jobs associated with the practice
Sinn Fein dont care about that aspect

Fann Linn · 02-04-2020 01:38PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Read very carefully what was written.....it is more than possible to have the "capacity" to do something but not operate at that capacity - for example, Lansdowne Road has capacity of 55,000 or thereabouts - if only 10,000 attend a match and the FAI say "only 10,000 attended the match" - then they are not lying - simply relaying facts.....

Your assumption makes it actually worse. You're saying that in a world wide pandemic, a health service has the capacity to operate at full steam but knowingly decides to cut back to one third of same.

FrancieBrady · 02-04-2020 01:40PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

My other half is actually and I'm a trained Economist (though I sometimes wonder if the profession I stumbled into after that is in direct contradiction:D)

There are plenty of articles on the apple money and who is claiming it
The Irish government know they'd get less of it than they do currently if the EU commission won its case which is why they're joining apple fighting it
Apple of course can keep 97% plus if they win
None if they lose
The 2nd reason of course why the Irish government are fighting it,is they want to keep and attract 1000s of jobs associated with the practice
Sinn Fein dont care about that aspect

So if there are 'plenty of articles' could you post one that says this will happen if we withdraw our case?

If the Irish government did that,it would be into another escrow for years whilst other government treasuries principally the U.S sued to recover 99.9% of it

Sultan_of_Ping · 02-04-2020 01:41PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Link to that?

Or are we international law experts today?

Escrow means we are unable to touch it - it's not in any account the country has access to or control over.

The money was converted into European bonds, which are being managed by a number of firms under the supervision of an escrow agent, and ultimately under the direction of the Court.

That's how escrow works - however, SF no doubt will have you believe it's in a post office or credit union account somewhere as if it was your Communion money.:rolleyes:

declanflynn · 02-04-2020 01:47PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Escrow means we are unable to touch it - it's not in any account the country has access to or control over.

The money was converted into European bonds, which are being managed by a number of firms under the supervision of an escrow agent, and ultimately under the direction of the Court.

That's how escrow works - however, SF no doubt will have you believe it's in a post office or credit union account somewhere as if it was your Communion money.:rolleyes:

sf think it's in the Northern Bank

joeguevara · 02-04-2020 01:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So if there are 'plenty of articles' could you post one that says this will happen if we withdraw our case?

Here is one from the BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37299430

It says On top of that, the commission said, Ireland's tax take could be reduced if the US forces Apple to pay more back to the parent company.
This leaves Ireland at the centre of an uncertain tax situation on both sides of the Atlantic.

FrancieBrady · 02-04-2020 01:49PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Escrow means we are unable to touch it - it's not in any account the country has access to or control over.

The money was converted into European bonds, which are being managed by a number of firms under the supervision of an escrow agent, and ultimately under the direction of the Court.

That's how escrow works - however, SF no doubt will have you believe it's in a post office or credit union account somewhere as if it was your Communion money.:rolleyes:

Unable to be touched as long as there is an 'appeal' in progress. The money releases once appeals are dropped.

Sultan_of_Ping · 02-04-2020 01:52PM

declanflynn wrote: »

sf think it's in the Northern Bank

No, I think they just think you can treat it as if was held by Northern Bank

Anyway, looks like there's only two Northern Banks of it held in cash (€53m), the rest is mostly in European Fixed Interest Securities.

Might be interesting if we followed the dopey SF approach and somehow managed to get bonds released to our custody - would they be honoured? Especially as not all the money is potentially ours - something SF seem also to forget.

joeguevara · 02-04-2020 01:52PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Unable to be touched as long as there is an 'appeal' in progress. The money releases once appeals are dropped.

The issue is Francie is that if we agree with the commission, then other E.U. countries and US have a claim to that money. It’s not as simple as dropping the appeal and taking the money.

https://www.thejournal.ie/apple-tax-2955480-Aug2016/

Mortelaro · 02-04-2020 01:52PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So if there are 'plenty of articles' could you post one that says this will happen if we withdraw our case?

That's one thing I dont even have to do
The intellectual property is created in the U S
The sales are done in several countries worldwide
The profits take a huge administration charge of whatever's needed to kill sales taxes in other countries from a shell company in Ireland
It's a basic accounting structure that Ireland acquiesses in because Apple and others bring so much employment here

My learned friend sultan has explained what an Escrow is
Feel free to pass all this onto head office

FrancieBrady · 02-04-2020 01:55PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Here is one from the BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37299430

It says On top of that, the commission said, Ireland's tax take could be reduced if the US forces Apple to pay more back to the parent company.
This leaves Ireland at the centre of an uncertain tax situation on both sides of the Atlantic.

No...that article clearly says 'could' as well as saying many other things 'could' happen.

Morte's partner seems to be saying something very specific 'would' happen.

Sultan_of_Ping · 02-04-2020 01:55PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Unable to be touched as long as there is an 'appeal' in progress. The money releases once appeals are dropped.

Well there you have it, and SF solution just begging to be put into practice......

.......send the lads around to Tim's place to make him an offer he can't refuse

:D:D

tikkahunter · 02-04-2020 01:55PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Escrow means we are unable to touch it - it's not in any account the country has access to or control over.

The money was converted into European bonds, which are being managed by a number of firms under the supervision of an escrow agent, and ultimately under the direction of the Court.

That's how escrow works - however, SF no doubt will have you believe it's in a post office or credit union account somewhere as if it was your Communion money.:rolleyes:

What is the figure-3000+ they employ in Cork , like every other multinational in the country, they are here for tax reasons and the upshot of that is employment and a booming economy. Before this we basically had full employment and our credit rating is good and that gave us the coin to borrow for this disaster, I am not happy at paying 52% tax and USC every week but I can also see why it is necessary. SF would want to take heed to the saying “don’t bite the hand that feeds you”.

Sultan_of_Ping · 02-04-2020 01:57PM

joeguevara wrote: »

The issue is Francie is that if we agree with the commission, then other E.U. countries and US have a claim to that money. It’s not as simple as dropping the appeal and taking the money.

https://www.thejournal.ie/apple-tax-2955480-Aug2016/

Also, if we agree with the Commission we open the door to all sorts of "interference" and broadening of their competencies - and I would've thought the last thing SF want is an activist Commission poring over Shinnernomic policies.

FrancieBrady · 02-04-2020 01:58PM

joeguevara wrote: »

The issue is Francie is that if we agree with the commission, then other E.U. countries and US have a claim to that money. It’s not as simple as dropping the appeal and taking the money.

https://www.thejournal.ie/apple-tax-2955480-Aug2016/

I said that in my original post on this objecting to the idea that anyone would be 'raiding' or suggesting doing something illegal.

FrancieBrady · 02-04-2020 02:01PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Well there you have it, and SF solution just begging to be put into practice......

.......send the lads around to Tim's place to make him an offer he can't refuse :D:D

What happens to anything in escrow, when the appeals are dropped Sultan? Who is the payee on that Escrow account?

Instead of trying to deflect away...maybe try and answer for once?

Mortelaro · 02-04-2020 02:10PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What happens to anything in escrow, when the appeals are dropped Sultan? Who is the payee on that Escrow account?

Instead of trying to deflect away...maybe try and answer for once?

Are you suggesting Apple would drop an appeal? Why would they do that?

Sultan_of_Ping · 02-04-2020 02:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What happens to anything in escrow, when the appeals are dropped Sultan? Who is the payee on that Escrow account?

Instead of trying to deflect away...maybe try and answer for once?

Not at all - the funds are invested and the investment and management of the escrow fund is jointly overseen by the Minister for Finance and Apple Sales International (ASI) and Apple Operations Europe (AOE) through an investment committee.

The Minister is the beneficial owner for the duration of the escrow fund in accordance with the framework deed. EDIT: Strictly speaking the "payee" on the account will likely be the escrow agent.

If Apple drop their appeal and we do likewise then we get the moolah, although other MSs may look to claim a chunk of it. Dropping it means we then have to accept the fallout - that Commission has a role in sovereign tax matters - is that a good thing or bad thing? I would suggest the latter, but hey that's just me.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Comments