Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

1…184185187189190…323

Comments

  • #5582
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,402 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    JRant wrote: »
    The irony is delicious is this post anyway.

    They have a valid point. Doesn't matter what way you spin it, they committed to testing 15000, set up drive through testing centres, got the staff, security and everything else required. After a week they realised, hang on a minute we don't have the labs or the key ingredients to actually do anything near that level of testing.

    Leo talking about lessons learned like it was a bloody work project. There will be no lessons learned, it was a poorly planned, poorly executed effort from the beginning. Well, it was either that or a level of incompetence that I didn't think even the HSE had in them.

    How could they anticipate international shortages of chemicals and tests that hadn't even occurred yet?


  • #5583
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    kilkenny31 wrote: »
    So far tho that is proven not to be the case. Population density has a lot to do with it. Look at Sweden, very light restrictions but its not growing there anywhere near as fast as it is in Italy or Spain. Its because its not as densly populated. Same as Portugal is not getting hit as bad as Spain. Its population is a lot smaller.
    Agreed. The population density, average number of contacts a person has and natural social distancing in a country (or area) would all impact the transmission and growth rate, of infection, hospital + ICU admission and mortality rates.

    There might be some correlation in that countries with a higher population may have a higher population density but it's not a given.

    After it's all over it may be valid to make comparisons based on normalized numbers but at the moment making valid country to country zero day comparisons would need to be in absolute numbers rather than relative to their populations.


  • #5584
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Newsnight have just been discussing this - didn't pay much attention to it as they talked but a government minister mentioned the need to keep schools open as closing would wreck the public health sector.

    The Swedish approach is dictated entirely by the public health experts there, or so they claim anyway. I think the most important thing that was said in that interview is that nobody really knows because nothing like this has happened before.
    Nobody can be sure what is the proper strategy once the virus has escaped and is widespread in the community. It’s possible that there is nothing you can do that will make much difference.
    My own view is that a hard lockdown will become counter-productive within a short time and cannot be maintained for very long anyway, whereas a more relaxed regime can be maintained for much longer and may be more effective in the end. Time will tell.


  • #5585
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Strazdas wrote: »
    How could they anticipate international shortages of chemicals and tests that hadn't even occurred yet?
    A friend of mine works in Pfizer and he texted me in late February about the shortage of reagent.


  • #5586
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,132 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    Many people have made perfectly good recoveries from covid 19. In fact the vast majority infected have.

    As I said voluntary only and not for everyone.

    The Asian countries are seeing second waves of infections.

    Containment has been a failure in the west, and unless you lockdown for a year cases will keep rising and falling.

    Link to the second wave?


  • Advertisement
  • #5587
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,132 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    s1ippy wrote: »
    A friend of mine works in Pfizer and he texted me in late February about the shortage of reagent.

    Sure he did.


  • #5588
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Link to the second wave?
    Literally googled second wave China
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/asia/coronavirus-china-hong-kong-singapore-south-korea.amp.html


  • #5589
    bekker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bekker


    Compared to Ireland it doesn't look too good.

    Pop Ire/Swed 47.73%
    Deaths Ire/Swed 36.19%

    In both countries first reported death 11th March.


  • #5590
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Agreed. At some stage it is just going to have to be let run it’s course. As much as some here would like it, a lockdown can’t go on until we have a vaccine. Normal life, albeit with social distancing, office workers still WFH, numbers in pubs and restaurants restricted, and sports behind closed doors, will resume. Or we are talking economic and social suicide (with all the resulting impact on public health). I give it 3 months at the absolute outside, even if we are still getting new ICU cases and deaths
    Flattening the curve or indeed curves is a direct response not to overwhelm health systems capacity. The much crucial of all this is the health workers themselves. And if they're being worn down through attrition of multiple waves, well it doesn't bear thinking about, nevermind the traumatic effects of working the front line actually means. We can hope for the best but have got to plan for the worst.

    Research is crucial and right now the entire globe is on that Petri dish, potentially.


  • #5591
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    JRant wrote: »
    The irony is delicious is this post anyway.

    They have a valid point. Doesn't matter what way you spin it, they committed to testing 15000, set up drive through testing centres, got the staff, security and everything else required. After a week they realised, hang on a minute we don't have the labs or the key ingredients to actually do anything near that level of testing.

    Leo talking about lessons learned like it was a bloody work project. There will be no lessons learned, it was a poorly planned, poorly executed effort from the beginning. Well, it was either that or a level of incompetence that I didn't think even the HSE had in them.

    Do tell. I’m guessing you think there’s a conflict between “I’m sure I’m not the only one” and “Don’t speak for others”. One is a speculative statement (I’m not definitively speaking for anyone else, just surmising that others of the thousands of users may feel the same as me), the other a directive. Care to outline the irony?

    There is a shortage be there are numerous countries grasping for finite supplies. How is that the HSE’s fault? I’ve done laboratory ordering in the past. Even in times of plenty, reagents and other supplies can run low and many lab items are manufactured in other countries. We’re in a worldwide crisis and these items take time to produce.


  • Advertisement
  • #5592
    MipMap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭MipMap


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    The Swedish approach is dictated entirely by the public health experts there, or so they claim anyway. I think the most important thing that was said in that interview is that nobody really knows because nothing like this has happened before.
    Nobody can be sure what is the proper strategy once the virus has escaped and is widespread in the community. It’s possible that there is nothing you can do that will make much difference.
    My own view is that a hard lockdown will become counter-productive within a short time and cannot be maintained for very long anyway, whereas a more relaxed regime can be maintained for much longer and may be more effective in the end. Time will tell.


    As I read it the death rate from this virus seems to be heavily dependent on how well you can treat the patients in serious condition. ie: Respirators, oxygen etc., Many are saying this is why Germany are doing so well.
    Maybe Sweden has a really good health service that can cope with this.


  • #5593
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,132 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Literally googled second wave China
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/asia/coronavirus-china-hong-kong-singapore-south-korea.amp.html

    That's not a wave.

    Its cases brought in from foreign travellers.

    Are you telling me the lockdown in China didn't work.

    Genuine question.

    If so why are we wasting our time?


  • #5594
    elperello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,041 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    maebee wrote: »

    Yes, that’s was one of the reasons why I shared it.
    I’d sort of like If the guards told him where to go.

    They are plenty of people who’s said mass and the church is closed but they know they’ve to deal with it for every bodies sake.

    That quote is a bit mixed up.

    I commented but I didn't say he should be at home.

    Of course he should but it's most likely a sensitive situation and I hope it will be dealt with as such.


  • #5595
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,197 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Strazdas wrote: »
    How could they anticipate international shortages of chemicals and tests that hadn't even occurred yet?

    You don't anticipate, you plan.
    Someone thought, great let's build test facilities for up to 15000 a day and seemingly a few days into it they realized, hang on, we don't have enough test kits or gear to process them. One word, omnishambles

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #5596
    Westernyelp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,410 ✭✭✭Westernyelp


    Strazdas wrote:
    How could they anticipate international shortages of chemicals and tests that hadn't even occurred yet?


    Even if they had. What could they have done about it. Everyone is after the same stuff.


  • #5597
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Overall population density in Sweden is misleading since they have a vast area where nobody lives and a relitively small area where most people live. Sweden is one of the most urbanised countries in the EU, far more so than Itay

    Just for a sense of where Ireland sits on this. There are only a few EU countries with lower levels of urbanisation, notably Poland, Austria and Slovenia.

    A lot of the countries we compare ourselves with e.g. Nordic ones and New Zealand due to similar population sides are very very urbanised in comparison to here. We've a lot of scattered population compared to a lot of counterparts and our preference for somewhat almost off-grid living and also we somewhat skipped the industrial revolution and went straight to a booming services sector, post-industrial economy, which doesn't actually need the levels of urbanisation that were required in the past.

    It's one area where Ireland's very much an outlier and it may be quite significant in this in terms of housing density in particular. Also, unlike Poland and some other former Eastern bloc countries, we do not tend to have dense housing stock. It's quite different.

    Although, that being said - Italy's has similar characteristics in some respects. So, I wouldn't necessarily engage in too much exceptionalism on it either. We need to be damn careful to use whatever accidental benefits we might have very wisely.

    Belgium: 98%
    Malta: 94.6%
    Iceland: 93.8%
    Sweden 87.4%
    NL: 91.5%
    Lux: 91%
    Sweden 87.4% (Similar to NZ actually who we often compare to Ireland)
    Finland 85.4%
    UK 83% (Similar to US, Norway South Korea, Canada)
    France and Spain both 80% - Greece 79%
    Germany 77.3%
    Italy 70.4%
    Portugal 65.2%
    Ireland 63.2%
    Poland 60.1%
    Austria: 58.3%
    Slovenia : 54.5%


  • #5598
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    s1ippy wrote: »
    A friend of mine works in Pfizer and he texted me in late February about the shortage of reagent.

    Really? A real ****ing shame he or you didn`t let the HSE or the Government know about it wasn`t it? :rolleyes:


  • #5599
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1245467611581820931?s=20


  • #5600
    statesaver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭statesaver


    Joe Rogan Experience - Dr. Peter Hotez


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Q53KWZFMU


  • #5601
    c montgomery
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭c montgomery


    s1ippy wrote: »
    A friend of mine works in Pfizer and he texted me in late February about the shortage of reagent.

    What reagent are they short of?


  • Advertisement
  • #5602
    fritzelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,148 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    statesaver wrote: »
    Joe Rogan Experience - Dr. Peter Hotez

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Q53KWZFMU

    And what is he talking about? Aint watching an hour long video with no context


  • #5603
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    bekker wrote: »
    Compared to Ireland it doesn't look too good.

    Pop Ire/Swed 47.73%
    Deaths Ire/Swed 36.19%

    In both countries first reported death 11th March.
    Population shouldn't matter until near saturation rates. Based on deaths Sweden is nearly three times worse than Ireland.

    At this time reducing the opportunity for transmission has the greatest effect on spread, hospitalisation, ICU admission and mortality.

    Implementing progressive social distancing / shutdown / lockdown measures are a major part in the difference between how different countries are affected.


  • #5604
    MipMap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭MipMap


    JRant wrote: »
    You don't anticipate, you plan.
    Someone thought, great let's build test facilities for up to 15000 a day and seemingly a few days into it they realized, hang on, we don't have enough test kits or gear to process them. One word, omnishambles


    To be fair, This is the biggest crises the world has faced since WW2.


    D Day didn't go off without a few hitches either.


  • #5605
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,257 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    fritzelly wrote: »
    May actually have a vaccine for the common cold soon - not that anyone would bother paying to get it I would imagine

    ‘The common cold’ is just a label for a whole load of mild respiratory illnesses

    It will never have a vaccine

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #5606
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,197 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Do tell. I’m guessing you think there’s a conflict between “I’m sure I’m not the only one” and “Don’t speak for others”. One is a speculative statement (I’m not definitively speaking for anyone else, just surmising that others of the thousands of users may feel the same as me), the other a directive. Care to outline the irony?

    There is a shortage be there are numerous countries grasping for finite supplies. How is that the HSE’s fault? I’ve done laboratory ordering in the past. Even in times of plenty, reagents and other supplies can run low and many lab items are manufactured in other countries. We’re in a worldwide crisis and these items take time to produce.

    Oh, surmising for the thousands of others that "may" feel the same as you but definitely not speaking for them. Got ya.

    You can dress it however you like but it comes down to terrible planning and management. Why bother committing to the additional tests if the raw materials were so hard to come by? Unless they had a dedicated supply chain for all components to make it work then it's nothing more than window dressing.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #5607
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,009 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1245467611581820931?s=20

    That's worrying because it means it is even harder to control the transmission of the virus.

    But the other side of the coin may be that more people than thought have or have been infected which hopefully means more immunity which might help slow a second wave.

    Or is that too optimistic?


  • #5608
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,845 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    MipMap wrote: »
    To be fair, This is the biggest crises the world has faced since WW2.


    D Day didn't go off without a few hitches either.

    Ww2 shut down the world for years - this won’t


  • #5609
    fr336
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    Well 2 weeks and 1 day since I was last in the office so can't blame work if I pick it up now


  • #5610
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,009 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Ww2 shut down the world for years - this won’t

    Yeah but a lot of people thought both world wars would be over by Christmas.

    The effects of Covid 19 could well be felt for years, even after we've returned to "normality"


  • Advertisement
  • #5611
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    JRant wrote: »
    Oh, surmising for the thousands of others that "may" feel the same as you but definitely not speaking for them. Got ya.

    You can dress it however you like but it comes down to terrible planning and management. Why bother committing to the additional tests if the raw materials were so hard to come by? Unless they had a dedicated supply chain for all components to make it work then it's nothing more than window dressing.

    What don’t you understand about the word ‘speculative’?

    And I will dress it however I want. Thank you. :)

    What’s unique about Ireland here? Do you think other countries aren’t having any issues with laboratory supplies? Just Ireland? That’s unfortunate. From my lab ordering days, sometimes I wouldn’t know something wasn’t currently available until I went to order it where the last time I ordered it, it was there to be had. And this is a worldwide crisis with many moving parts. Far more difficult circumstances.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement