Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Ballso · 31-03-2020 12:06PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you reckon the problem is the 'unions'.

Why haven't FF and FG taken them on if the problem is so obvious?

It's politically impossible to take them on. You are over in another thread yellow-vesting about resourcing in the middle of a global pandemic ffs. Imagine the perception of scaling back numbers in the HSE from the hysterical twitter mob in normal times, it would be political suicide for any party. If the "neo-liberal" wing of our political establishment can't sort out the inefficiencies in health there isn't a hope in hell populists like SF can.

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 12:09PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theyre still in full control, of course you re right on some points, but expect this 'partnership' to carry on for a long time, possibly indefinitely, they ll do everything in their power to remain in power, blocking alternatives. the only thing the alternatives can do is influence ffg, which is currently what is happening, and is somewhat working

It's for the good anyway that the cosy FFG cartel is under threat via the rise of Sinn Féin. They'll (FFG) have to up their game if they want to cling on to power.

At some point one of Tweedledee or Tweedledum might outsprint the other and the current carry on of one of them taking turns being the senior partner may come to an end.

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 12:16PM

Ballso wrote: »

It's politically impossible to take them on. You are over in another thread yellow-vesting about resourcing in the middle of a global pandemic ffs. Imagine the perception of scaling back numbers in the HSE from the hysterical twitter mob in normal times, it would be political suicide for any party. If the "neo-liberal" wing of our political establishment can't sort out the inefficiencies in health there isn't a hope in hell populists like SF can.

Nope. The issue with the health system is the vested interests are buddies with FFG. The consultants that rub shoulders with FGers and FFers down the golf club and that send their kids to the same schools.

FG and FF don't have the political will to take them on, they don't even want to take them on. They (FFG) feel beholding to them and the others in society that are in the top wage brackets, the builders etc. Health and Housing the two biggest issues in Ireland and we're going to have a government lead by two parties that thus far have failed time and time and time again to tackle the vested interests in both sectors and initiate real reform.

31-03-2020 12:20PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

Who's fault it it that the health service is in worse nick than ever in this country after two terms of FG lead governments despite a few years of economic prosperity and many promises when they were in opposition prior to that that they would reform the public health system?

Even prior to Covid, the health system was not in the worst nick we've ever had in this country.

If you take the time to read about the health system prior to the mid 1990's it was way, way (like comprehensively) worse. Don't let rose tinted glasses fool you.

Wanderer78 · 31-03-2020 12:20PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

It's for the good anyway that the cosy FFG cartel is under threat via the rise of Sinn Féin. They'll (FFG) have to up their game if they want to cling on to power.

At some point one of Tweedledee or Tweedledum might outsprint the other and the current carry on of one of them taking turns being the senior partner may come to an end.

i will agree its a good idea both of them are being put under pressure from the likes of sf, but never underestimate ffg's real power

31-03-2020 12:21PM

Runaways wrote: »

Well we’re not locked into orange v green and the massive divides for a start.
And your analogy only works if we also say Leo is equally as inept as Maria Bailey.
Just cos you think one member of a party is crap means they all must crap on that party be isnt really how this works I’m afraid.

I don't think one member of SF is crap, I think as a governing party in NI they have been inept (except maybe on education). Most the metrics support my view, tbf.

storker · 31-03-2020 12:22PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. The issue with the health system is the vested interests are buddies with FFG. The consultants that rub shoulders with FGers and FFers down the golf club and that send their kids to the same schools.

I think the problem is these guys and the unions.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 12:33PM

Ballso wrote: »

It's politically impossible to take them on. .

It 'has' been...is what you mean.

Why? Because we have a power swap in this country. It is not in the interests of FG or FF to fix anything if it damages them. Hence so much disaster in public services.

As the crisis shows, if the will is there...etc etc.

31-03-2020 12:33PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. The issue with the health system is the vested interests are buddies with FFG. The consultants that rub shoulders with FGers and FFers down the golf club and that send their kids to the same schools.

FG and FF don't have the political will to take them on, they don't even want to take them on. They (FFG) feel beholding to them and the others in society that are in the top wage brackets, the builders etc. Health and Housing the two biggest issues in Ireland and we're going to have a government lead by two parties that thus far have failed time and time and time again to tackle the vested interests in both sectors and initiate real reform.

A quick google says we spend 500 million pa on consultant wages from a total of 6500 million pa across the whole health service.

The maths don't really work out for the populist "elites should pay for everything" SF approach.

31-03-2020 12:35PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It 'has' been...is what you mean.

Why? Because we have a power swap in this country. It is not in the interests of FG or FF to fix anything if it damages them. Hence so much disaster in public services.

As the crisis shows, if the will is there...etc etc.

You're not suggesting that SF would take them on? It's not in their DNA. They'll cut wages at the top end and increase the bottom ultimately leading to a bigger PS wage bill.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 12:35PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i will agree its a good idea both of them are being put under pressure from the likes of sf, but never underestimate ffg's real power

It is what the 'system' here has been crying out for.

You will see real change now that a 3rd party with a different ideology has emerged.

I'm not talking about what pretends to be a Labour party btw.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 12:39PM

jh79 wrote: »

You're not suggesting that SF would take them on? It's not in their DNA. They'll cut wages at the top end and increase the bottom ultimately leading to a bigger PS wage bill.

I was replying to a poster who thinks the problem is just Unions...I don't think it is.

It is a combination of vested interests and unions.
The unions have only dug themselves in to protect against those vested interests.

So the solution is in finding balances where everyone's interest is catered for.

Are SF capable of that...I don't know, but they are entitled to have a go as much as FF and FG have failed to step up to the plate on it.

Ballso · 31-03-2020 12:58PM

Nobody said the problems are "just unions".

Some problems are deeply complex, difficult to resolve, cannot be reduced to easily digestible sound bites and create problems elsewhere when resolved. Resources are finite and hard decisions sometimes need to be taken on where to deploy them. This is a problem all of us who work in industry or professional services encounter every day.

Sinn Fein supporters will learn this fairly rapidly if their party ever gets into government. Must be such fun to be in government or the civil service having half wits screaming at you about how everything is wrong and is so easy to fix if only you weren't so evil. :rolleyes:

Randy Archer · 31-03-2020 12:58PM

Eamonn8448 wrote: »

my grandfather is long dead and he played his part too , one day lad smart arses like you shall get their just deserts , its a small island !

It sure is a small island, commando , you have just confirmed the justification for the continuation of the Special Criminal Court with the horse manure that you just uttered there .

Your boys and their bullets failed , you’d have thought after 40 years it would be enough time for ye to cop on &#55358;&#56619;. I dare you make up such threats in public within ear shot of the Gardai. Typical barstool Republican nonsense

Oh, and this self entitled brat thing ...lol, not sure such a description is apt against those who pay income tax at the 40% rate , something few Shinners would know about

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 01:03PM

Ballso wrote: »

Nobody said the problems are "just unions".

You did.

Ballso wrote:

I can see SF taking on the unions and eliminating the inefficiencies causing the problems in our health service alright.

Stop trying to row away from what you clearly said is 'causing the problems in our health services'

Jesus, you guys are unreal!

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 01:07PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i will agree its a good idea both of them are being put under pressure from the likes of sf, but never underestimate ffg's real power

Never underestimate the power of the Dark Side. LOL. When the blueshirts and the cronies in the Galway Tent come together.

Randy Archer · 31-03-2020 01:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah would you stop, there's always someone else for SF to blame.

DUP are bad bastards too, and lousy at actual governance, but there is a pair of them in it.

Sorry, just to edit, the idea we should ignore their performance in NI is bizarre. We can see there exactly what SF do in power, and it's nothing much.

Nice to see SF doing partitionism when it suits them

Imagine closing down Parliament over a language package that won’t be used by anyone and will cost way too much on already limited funds. Whatever about closing down due to Sharleene and Cash for ash but nope, close down over a proxy Irish language act ...

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 01:14PM

jh79 wrote: »

A quick google says we spend 500 million pa on consultant wages from a total of 6500 million pa across the whole health service.

The maths don't really work out for the populist "elites should pay for everything" SF approach.

The problem with the health service isn’t money, it’s the vested interests (not just the consultants btw) and also the insurance companies have a stake in it as well. FFG won’t take them on, some of them are pals of theirs

Runaways · 31-03-2020 01:15PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Again, power sharing

Instead of talking to press the idea would be to talk to the DUP, only a gob**t negotiated via the press. That’s what SF do, same with Mary Lou shouting about FF, instead of talking to FF she was shouting to RTÉ

Your point is a negative, not a positive. SF have learned nothing from shutting down the North assembly for 3 years, the way they are going it will be closed down again soon

So you’re now aware it’s power sharing

Earlier you were blaming SF for all of it.

Sorry but Theres a few different parties and problems at the table.

So stop with the SF down here analogies.

Randy Archer · 31-03-2020 01:17PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

One term of SF in power and let’s see how much their support dwindles. That’s the issue now and why I would prefer to throw SF into power now

SF and seemingly their supports are great at throwing mud at opposite but not too great at doing anything

As I said al along, stick them in now, give it 12 months and apart from the social welfare crew the entire country will be kicking them to touch. Then we won’t have to listen to page after page of thread like this with all talk and no action

Problem is Mary Lou couldn’t negotiate her way out of a wet paper bag so she will not get anyone to join up with them, so rest of us will have to listen to years of this s**t about “ well SF would have done xyz”, God help us all....

Local elections of 2014 is a decent start. Sf dominated many county councils such as Dublin City Council between 2024-2019 ...look how they failed in the 2019 local elections ..

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 01:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Even prior to Covid, the health system was not in the worst nick we've ever had in this country.

If you take the time to read about the health system prior to the mid 1990's it was way, way (like comprehensively) worse. Don't let rose tinted glasses fool you.

If you’re trying to make out that the health service we have in this country is up to scratch considering the overall wealth of this country then you’re talking through your hoop.

That’s a poor excuse you’re attempting to make for the consistent failure of FFG to face down vested interests and reform the health service.

Pathetic stuff.

Runaways · 31-03-2020 01:26PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think one member of SF is crap, I think as a governing party in NI they have been inept (except maybe on education). Most the metrics support my view, tbf.

Strange thing about that is kids in catholic schools up there have better outcomes in secondary And far more of them go into third level than their counterparts.
System is totally broken up there but as you say it’s good to see something positive getting done even if it only continues the divided nature of it all.

Ballso · 31-03-2020 01:54PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You did.

Stop trying to row away from what you clearly said is 'causing the problems in our health services'

Jesus, you guys are unreal!

AND

There's a conjunction in that sentence. I know SF draw a lot of support from the uneducated but that's ridiculous.

31-03-2020 01:59PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

If you’re trying to make out that the health service we have in this country is up to scratch considering the overall wealth of this country then you’re talking through your hoop.

That’s a poor excuse you’re attempting to make for the consistent failure of FFG to face down vested interests and reform the health service.

Pathetic stuff.

That isn't what I'm saying. I'm questioning the line you rolled out with about our health system.

31-03-2020 02:00PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

Nice to see SF doing partitionism when it suits them

Imagine closing down Parliament over a language package that won’t be used by anyone and will cost way too much on already limited funds. Whatever about closing down due to Sharleene and Cash for ash but nope, close down over a proxy Irish language act ...

In a crisis. That's what really galls.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 02:15PM

Ballso wrote: »

AND

There's a conjunction in that sentence. I know SF draw a lot of support from the uneducated but that's ridiculous.

:D:D
Make it about somebody else now.

Most ridiculous look over there post of the day.

Sultan_of_Ping · 31-03-2020 02:19PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. The issue with the health system is the vested interests are buddies with FFG. The consultants that rub shoulders with FGers and FFers down the golf club and that send their kids to the same schools.

FG and FF don't have the political will to take them on, they don't even want to take them on. They (FFG) feel beholding to them and the others in society that are in the top wage brackets, the builders etc. Health and Housing the two biggest issues in Ireland and we're going to have a government lead by two parties that thus far have failed time and time and time again to tackle the vested interests in both sectors and initiate real reform.

Worked in the health service for a lot of years and have family who still do (as part of the "vested interests") - the main obstacle, in my view, to meaningful structural reform of our health service is the parochialism of the electorate.

Sure, unions and vested interests are a significant issue but it may come as a surprise to many that the people who make up the "vested interests" want, in many cases, to do a good job and work in great facilities.

The problem is great health facilities require scale and you can't get scale in a provincial or county town in Ireland - which is why so much money is wasted building shiny new buildings that will never - and can't ever - deliver the type of services we need on a high quality basis.

Of course polticians and parties will tell you otherwise because there's no votes in being honest with people or showing leadership. Plus, shiny buildings provide great photo-ops and people are somehow comforted by their existence.

To be honest, I'd prefer a brilliant nurse and a gifted doctor in a prefab over a machine that goes ping in some edifice to pork-barrel politics. But that's just me.

As regards health policy, most of the parties' plans seem to be on a nodding acquaintance with reality - except for SF's. Like a lot of their policies they articulate the "what" very clearly but are in fantasy-land when it comes to the "how."

For example - "free GP care for all" is laudable, but where are we going to get all the extra GPs from? Likewise, "fully staffing the PCCs" - what does "staffing" mean? Which specialties are they talking about and where are those people going to come from?

I may be wrong but I don't get the impression there are tranches of unemployed medical professionals (for example the 3000+ nurses along with 500 GPs they say they will emloy) out there looking for jobs but maybe SF know better. So again, the idea that the recuirtment freeze should be lifted is a good one - but also irrelevant as it's not like there's thousands of doctors, nurses and allied health professionals out there kicking their heels looking for work.

.....and the obvious suggestion is that some of those who emigrated might return. Some will, but why would the majority - especially when they see what SF have in store in their tax and public sector pay policies.

Nice round figures but as with all SF's policies, the numbers don't add up.

Runaways · 31-03-2020 02:49PM

What is the aim here..make him look cutsie and relatable or even human?

Or leader like and workin hard

Either the way the fawning over him is nauseating

https://twitter.com/roisiningle/status/1244983488463417346?s=21

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 03:06PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You just keep digging and digging that hole.

LOOK at who negotiated a deal with the DUp. LOOK at who walked away from that deal and LOOK at who endorsed that walk away.

LOOK at how the deal was eventually done when the DUP were finished with by the people who had endorsed them previously.

Of course you won't look at that and will continue to do the digging.

I think I told you already but maybe you didnt get a chance, but your keyboard if f**ked now. More and more the caps lock key is getting stuck....need to buy a new one.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/northern-ireland-talks-latest-power-sharing-deal-stormont-sinn-fein-dup-a8893096.html

SF shut down over a language act, which according to the census in 2011 6% of the population said could speak it. 0.2% said it was their primary language. Yes it was critical to the country and of course was worth shutting down the government for 3 years over

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 03:08PM

Runaways wrote: »

What is the aim here..make him look cutsie and relatable or even human?

Or leader like and workin hard

Either the way the fawning over him is nauseating

Its twitter, the aim is to post sh***e and get likes. Nothing more.

You seem to think it is some source of official data.

Not sure why you are upset because someone posted about the Taoiseach has a mug on their desk. Are you that obsessed with Leo the kitten you monitor all tweets about him? :P

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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