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CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

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  • #842
    Rob A. Bank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    One month (until yesterday) in one minute.

    The exponential rise in cases is well illustrated as well as the rise in numbers in the USA and the way South Korea falls down the table.



  • #843
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Its pretty obvious that the testing system is not fit for purpose but the government don't want to tell people. They need to be clear if things are not working out but the HSE have a history of cover ups.
    cameramonkey wrote: »
    It's hard to say anything positive when they a have reacted too late to this outbreak and are not doing the basic testing.
    cameramonkey wrote: »
    how come we have now suspended testing at many centers? How come there are no figures for the amount that have been tested and are being tested per day. How do you know we are testing more than other countries if we have no official numbers?
    cameramonkey wrote: »
    We seem to be doing about 700 test a day average from the time the outbreak arrived in Ireland.
    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Again there is a difference between testing and processing those test. It seems the HSE has not published these numbers. Hopefully they are not hiding a poor testing regime but we dont know unfortunately.
    cameramonkey wrote: »
    You have no idea what the testing and lab performance is so how can you say it is sufficient ?
    cameramonkey wrote: »
    I think the 2000 has been debunked, we may be testing 2000 and I doubt that with many of the testing station closed. I have not seen any evidence to say we can process more than about 1300 tests a day. I understand that people want to see they best for the country but when the HSE in unable to publish even how many are being tested and processed it smacks of incompetence.
    cameramonkey wrote: »
    When was that? because yesterday they said they were testing 5000 a day, have you a link? it would be encouraging if they were. It would be a good start.

    You keep asking about figures then pull some out of your hole.

    Then when posters repsond to you, you disregard what they say and claim reported figures have been debunked.

    I wouldn't heed anything you have to say because you don't know what you are talking about.


  • #844
    ShayNanigan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭ShayNanigan


    kilkenny31 wrote: »
    That what I'm doing. A similar country to Ireland in terms of population and density. I think they realise that too. They are different to larger European counties so can afford to take a different approach.

    Sweden has about 10 million people, Finland 5.5, Norway 5.4 and Denmark 5.6 mil. But all of these Nordic countries have very different approaches when it comes to testing, making decisions on isolation and reporting on the cases. Cannot really compare them to Ireland.


  • #845
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Price of pasta / bread going to change. We don't have milling anymore.


    https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1244622734438682624?s=20

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/odlums-mill-closure-will-increase-bread-flour-imports-183124.html


  • #846
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    otnomart wrote: »
    In Italy, data from flu patients admitted in ICU is: 157 severe cases (of which, 30 deaths).
    the estimate of flu patients in Italy from the start of the season (mid October) till week 7 of 2020 is of: 5.632.000 cases.


    Official Source: https://www.epicentro.iss.it/influenza/stagione-2019-2020-primo-bilancio


    from the chart, this flu season 2019-2020 seems less severe than the two previous ones
    2019-2020-primo-bilancio.png

    30 deaths from 157 severe cases. Thats a 19% fatality rate in those circumstances. Shows that flu is a dangerous thing to get if you end up in hospital with it.


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  • #847
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Marsden35 wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe they're all essential workers :rolleyes:

    But to be fair to them the government guidelines are to work from home if you can. There isn't a ban on people working, although many companies have voluntarily shut up shop.

    You cannot maintain physical distance from others when you have a mass transit system like the tube in London. Even on buses you in an enclosed space with dozens of others.
    The only effective way to stop the spread is to close down public transport altogether. That’s what they did in Wuhan.
    It’s also noteworthy that the hardest hit areas seem to be large densely populated cities with extensive mass transit systems. Just compare Los Angelus and New York which have similar populations. NY has 10 times the number of cases that LA has, probably because NY has a subway and LA doesn’t.


  • #848
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    The criteria was narrowed to try and detect more cases. Those with more severe symptoms and those in at risk groups have to be identified because they are most likely to need treatment and hospitalisation.

    Why would asymtomatic people present for testing. Thats like looking for a needle in a haystack, when we should be looking for the virus in those that already appear to be infected.
    Why waste limited resources on those who are most likely the ones who don't have it.


    I am not a medical person and have no real medical knowledge, but my understanding of the word asymptomatic is people who are infected by a disease while showing mild to no symptoms. If this is correct, then to my way of thinking we would need to identify these folks and get them to isolate.



    I think asymptomatic people with mild symptoms, even if only one symptom might present themselves for testing as a precautionary measure as I believe the majority are a fazed by the scenes in Italy, Spain etc. I understand that there will also be folks who present who turn out not to be affected at the time of testing and maybe just have a cold or flu or are just hypochondriacs.



    As I have said in previous posts I understand the rational of using the limited supply of test kits and resources on those who are most likely affected and in the at risk groups. But I don't see how tightening up the testing criteria to those with multiple symptoms, who most likely are affected finds more cases if those asymptomatic cases with mild symptoms are missed. Yes you find people who definitely are infected, but possibly miss so many more who are also affected, but less severely so.



    The possibility is that these folks didn't get tested, so don't think they have the virus so go on about their life, shopping once a week, spending time with the families at home, going to work if required and spreading the virus to others who could be badly affected by the virus.



    As I understand it you cannot just rock up to a testing site seeking a test. Testing is provided after a screening call with a medical professional. If these medical professionals think after a screen that maybe someone should be tested, even though they only have mild or a single symptom, I think it is crazy for the HSE to refuse to test that person.


  • #849
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,204 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://twitter.com/JordanFariaLima/status/1244640966386110464


  • #850
    bekker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bekker


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    The criteria was narrowed to try and detect more cases. Those with more severe symptoms and those in at risk groups have to be identified because they are most likely to need treatment and hospitalisation.

    Why would asymtomatic people present for testing. Thats like looking for a needle in a haystack, when we should be looking for the virus in those that already appear to be infected.
    Why waste limited resources on those who are most likely the ones who don't have it.
    Believe your final sentence and emphasis is inaccurate.

    All being tested are self-selecting based on symptoms they perceive themselves as having in sufficient degree to warrant a test. {After current triaging.}

    Asymptomatics and those with mildish symptoms do not, and did not before, offer themselves for testing, even though they are by definition carriers and transmitting the virus.


  • #851
    Marsden35
    Site Banned Posts: 93 ✭✭Marsden35


    Mossad obtains 10 million more coronavirus masks for Israel

    The Mossad also brought a few dozen ventilators, tens of thousands of more test kits and around 25,000 N95 masks – and is expected to bring even more medical equipment.

    The reason why MOSSAD were brought in?
    The Post learned at the time that the kits were obtained from countries with which Israel does not have diplomatic relations. A report by Al Jazeera said the countries were in the Persian Gulf, which could be one reason why the Mossad took the lead.

    Israel basically decided to treat the virus like a terrorist and set their internal and external security services on it. Seems to be working so far.


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  • #852
    saneman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 214 ✭✭saneman


    Mwengwe wrote: »
    So just exhaling is enough to infect someone?

    Yes, that's the reason for 2-metre social distancing.

    https://youtu.be/E3URhJx0NSw?t=75


  • #853
    Marsden35
    Site Banned Posts: 93 ✭✭Marsden35


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    You cannot maintain physical distance from others when you have a mass transit system like the tube in London. Even on buses you in an enclosed space with dozens of others.
    The only effective way to stop the spread is to close down public transport altogether. That’s what they did in Wuhan.
    It’s also noteworthy that the hardest hit areas seem to be large densely populated cities with extensive mass transit systems. Just compare Los Angelus and New York which have similar populations. NY has 10 times the number of cases that LA has, probably because NY has a subway and LA doesn’t.

    They can't close the tubes because essential workers use them. Many Londoners don't have cars. The only way to get to work is public transport.


  • #854
    Inquitus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Marsden35 wrote: »
    The reason why MOSSAD were brought in?



    Israel basically decided to treat the virus like a terrorist and set their internal and external security services on it. Seems to be working so far.

    They bought 100k test kits the other week, missing the reagents!

    https://m.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Mossad-brought-100000-coronavirus-tests-to-Israel-report-621532/amp


  • #855
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,204 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Good news, the projected numbers requiring ICU in Ireland in the worst case scenario likely to be reduced this evening according to Fergal Bowers.


  • #856
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    These are the modelling projections similar to which Dr.Fauci and Dr.Birx are using in the White House.

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

    They're predicting 82,141 deaths in the US by the years end. The UK models will be something similar, except they're 5 times smaller so you need to scale those numbers down by 5, and down by 66 or so for Ireland.

    As you can see. They're predicting 4,631 by April 1st and then MASSIVE jump to 59,589 by May 1st then a much slower rise to 82,141 by July 15th, where it finishes.

    April is going to be the month where most of this damage is being done.


  • #857
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    rusty cole wrote: »
    jasus not enough when she's offering pearls of wisdom like this.
    I think a lot in the media are loving this to be honest, they're all trying
    to out "ghoul" each other. In general most that work in that industry are scum anyway. Matt cooper must be soiling himself with all this too

    I'm a member of the media, and you are talking ****e.


  • #858
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Marsden35 wrote: »
    The reason why MOSSAD were brought in?

    Israel basically decided to treat the virus like a terrorist and set their internal and external security services on it. Seems to be working so far.

    Am I being cynical in interpreting this as MOSSAD essentially stealing other countries' supplies?


  • #859
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    When was that? because yesterday they said they were testing 5000 a day, have you a link? it would be encouraging if they were. It would be a good start.

    What is your issue every time somebody posted the press conference figure? Constantly asking for links instead of listening to or reading the news. And always incredulous when given the released figured?

    It's getting repetitive and is beyond credibility that you haven't come across these reports for yourself.


  • #860
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    kilkenny31 wrote: »
    That what I'm doing. A similar country to Ireland in terms of population and density. I think they realise that too. They are different to larger European counties so can afford to take a different approach.
    Quite a number of Swedes live alone and they socially distance naturally so they were following S Korea right out of the box!


  • #861
    Pencil Neck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 46 ✭Pencil Neck


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-15000-applications-for-350-weekly-payment-rejected-39086997.html

    That's a bad move. There will be some desperate people flipping out.

    Why? They are ineligible or have completed incorrect bank or PPS number. What would like to have happened ?


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  • #862
    Marsden35
    Site Banned Posts: 93 ✭✭Marsden35


    Inquitus wrote: »
    They bought 100k test kits the other week, missing the reagents!

    https://m.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Mossad-brought-100000-coronavirus-tests-to-Israel-report-621532/amp


    Yeah those were from another 'enemy' state. Bit of a woopsie, but they've sorted it out now and got the necessary liquid.

    Picturing MOSSAD flying around Arabia on the hunt for face masks makes me giggle for some reason.


  • #863
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    TommyKnocker wrote: »
    I am not a medical person and have no real medical knowledge, but my understanding of the word asymptomatic is people who are infected by a decease while showing mild to no symptoms. If this is correct, then to my way of thinking we would 1. need to identify these folks and get them to isolate.

    I think asymptomatic people with mild symptoms, even if only one symptom might present themselves for testing as a 2. precautionary measure as I believe the majority are a fazed by the scenes in Italy, Spain etc. I understand that there will also be folks who present who turn out not to be affected at the time of testing and maybe just have a cold or flu or are just hypochondriacs.

    As I have said in previous posts I understand the rational of using the limited supply of test kits and resources on those who are most likely affected and in the at risk groups. But I don't see how tightening up the testing criteria to 3. those with multiple symptoms, who most likely are affected finds more cases if those asymptomatic cases with mild symptoms are missed. Yes you find people who definitely are infected, but possibly miss so many more who are also affected, but less severely so.

    The possibility is that these folks didn't get tested, so don't think they have the virus so 4. go on about their life, shopping once a week, spending time with the families at home, going to work if required and spreading the virus to others who could be badly affected by the virus.

    1. We don't have the time or resources to test anyone who is asmptomatic at the moment.

    2. We don't have the time or resources to test people as a "precaution" in the middle of a worldwide pandemic. People are sick and dying. Those are the people who need our resources.

    3. You're contradicting yourself there. You said don't see how testing those most likely to have it finds more cases.

    4. No one should be currently going on about their life as normal or visiting family. We should all be carrying on asuming everyone has it. Those that have to work should have social distancing measures in place, effective handwashing practices and limited contact with each other or the public.

    We are not trying to stop the spread of the virus, because we can't.
    We are trying to slow it down so that the health service can deal with the number of people that need medical care.


  • #864
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    What is your issue every time somebody posted the press conference figure? Constantly asking for links instead of listening to or reading the news. And always incredulous when given the released figured?

    It's getting repetitive and is beyond credibility that you haven't come across these reports for yourself.

    There's a word for that kind of thing....won't come to me....on the tip of my tongue


  • #865
    Marsden35
    Site Banned Posts: 93 ✭✭Marsden35


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    Am I being cynical in interpreting this as MOSSAD essentially stealing other countries' supplies?

    Nah, they purchased it all.

    And with some other kit they exchanged medical knowledge for hazmat suits. Middle east bartering system. :D


  • #866
    Rob A. Bank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    Marsden35 wrote: »
    The reason why MOSSAD were brought in?



    Israel basically decided to treat the virus like a terrorist and set their internal and external security services on it. Seems to be working so far.

    Israeli Forces Demolish Emergency Coronavirus Clinic for Palestinians

    Grand lads all together the Israelis

    :(


  • #867
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    When is the HSE briefing?


  • #868
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    What is your issue every time somebody posted the press conference figure? Constantly asking for links instead of listening to or reading the news. And always incredulous when given the released figured?

    It's getting repetitive and is beyond credibility that you haven't come across these reports for yourself.
    TBF some posters are just anxious about the numbers being right, others are outright immovable sceptics.


  • #869
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    You cannot maintain physical distance from others when you have a mass transit system like the tube in London. Even on buses you in an enclosed space with dozens of others.
    The only effective way to stop the spread is to close down public transport altogether. That’s what they did in Wuhan.
    It’s also noteworthy that the hardest hit areas seem to be large densely populated cities with extensive mass transit systems. Just compare Los Angelus and New York which have similar populations. NY has 10 times the number of cases that LA has, probably because NY has a subway and LA doesn’t.

    LA has a.subway system with 300,000 using it daily, but cars and buses are more prevalent forms of transportation

    https://www.businessinsider.com/los-angeles-subway-2019-4?amp


  • #870
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    When is the HSE briefing?
    5.45 was mentioned earlier. Dunno if it's changed in the meantime.


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  • #871
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    You keep asking about figures then pull some out of your hole.

    Then when posters repsond to you, you disregard what they say and claim reported figures have been debunked.

    I wouldn't heed anything you have to say because you don't know what you are talking about.


    Thanks for that but no need for the insults.



    I keep asking about numbers and people give me numbers but not to official figures. How can we understand what is going on if the HSE don't publish in writing the numbers tested and processed?



    I would love to see that 5000 or 10000 test have been processed per day in the last week but most of HSE statements seem aspirational at best.



    Maybe you can respond to me with some official figures like up to date tests and up to date test that have been processed with an official link. Then we can have a discussion on real figures as apposed to aspirational ones.


    I think there people are starting not to believe the HSE numbers on testing because of their lack of transparency and because testing and results are taking so long and also some testing station seem to be closing. In turn how can we then trust that we are catching as many people who are infected if we don't know how many are being tested and processed. If we cannot believe the official numbers we create a vacuum that is filled by rumour and fear.

    That is not where we want to be in the middle of a pandemic.


This discussion has been closed.
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