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CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

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Comments

  • #8372
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Great time to have this thought, 3:30am

    What happens to all the nuclear reactors if there's nobody around to look after them?

    The all have fail safes that kick in and shut down. I'd hope.


  • #8373
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭paul71


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because it is two topline figures ignoring how those figures were achieved. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.


    Germany has a population of 83million. They can leverage that to get massive discounts on material, equipment, and building projects. They do not pay full price for their goods, we pay much more (per item) than they do


    So their €5,300 in spending would, proportionally, cost us a lot more.


    Ok I will do your research for you shall I,

    Ireland 5528
    Denmark 5205
    Belgium 4840
    Austria 5227
    Canada 4753
    Germary 5551
    UK 4192
    Isreal 2822
    Iceland 4376
    Swithzerland 7919
    Italy 3391
    Spain 3248
    Finland 4033

    Yeap It appears we drastically underfund our health service :rolleyes:


  • #8374
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Gynoid wrote: »
    I am going to leave a small compartment in my mind open for the possibility that might be true.
    But for now, with the images and records from ICUs in Spain, Italy, NYC, etc there is definitely something else going on. Something not normal. And those ICUs report it also includes younger people, say 30 to 50, being very very seriously ill. Some say 40% of very sick are not elderly. Maybe the younger dont get critically sick as often, but something very disturbing is going on.

    The guy I was listening has analysed the actual data which he has access to. The rest of us are just listening to anecdotal evidence and jumping to conclusions. The are many deaths in every age group every year. Obviously most deaths occur in older age groups but younger people die also.


  • #8375
    voluntary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    The all have fail safes that kick in and shut down. I'd hope.

    They all do and some of them probably work correctly.


  • #8376
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,035 ✭✭✭jackboy


    all about the mane wrote: »
    No, they are not

    Why are you spreading these untruths. They clearly significantly reduce the risk of spreading and contraction of the virus.


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  • #8377
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jackboy wrote: »
    In other words, they are effective.




    No, they are not. They are effective in clinical setting at preventing aerosol particles.


    Morons touching their masks, mouth, nose, surfaces etc will mean masks are less then useless. They become dangerous in giving said morons a false sense of security.


  • #8378
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    jackboy wrote: »
    In other words, they are effective.

    Nah, people are idiots.

    You see them going around with gloves on, in reality they should be changed every time you touch something, not a hope is that happening.

    Instead people get a false sense of security and take risks.


  • #8379
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,257 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I was listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning and there was some boffin on analysing the statistics on deaths from Covid-19. I didn’t hear the beginning so I don’t know who he was or what his official status is.
    His job, apparently, is to analyse the ‘normal’ rates and causes of death in the UK. They also factor in the occurrence of major health issues for different age ranges. This enables them to predict for any age cohort with various health conditions, how many of those people will likely die in a given period, say a year.
    When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer
    He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.



    the overall death rate from all causes is 100% and all of medicine is aimed at shifting the distribution time wise

    My mother is not in great health ‘She has crohns disease amongst other things), she could die tomorrow, or she could live 20 more years, both she and I would prefer to shift her death time wise, neither of us think she will live forever

    And it is ludicrous to suggest that collapsing the health system wouldn’t lead to extra death this year. Heart attack or strokes are not always fatal if they are treated on time, 80-90% survive with emergency treatment, not gonna get that care if the hospital is no longer functioning because it’s overloaded with respiratory disease

    Same goes for all other health conditions, mortality will increase for treatable illnesses if the health service cannot provide those treatments because it’s overwhelmed

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #8380
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    Lavinia wrote: »
    in your opinion

    Not just my opinion.
    • If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
    • Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
    • Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
    • If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.


  • #8381
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    jackboy wrote: »
    Why are you spreading these untruths. They clearly significantly reduce the risk of spreading and contraction of the virus.

    Link?


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  • #8382
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No, they are not. They are effective in clinical setting at preventing aerosol particles.


    Morons touching their masks, mouth, nose, surfaces etc will mean masks are less then useless. They become dangerous in giving said morons a false sense of security.

    Exactly. It is proven that people touch their face more with a mask on. not less.


  • #8383
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    paul71 wrote: »
    Ok I will do your research for you shall I,

    Ireland 5528
    Denmark 5205
    Belgium 4840
    Austria 5227
    Canada 4753
    Germary 5551
    UK 4192
    Isreal 2822
    Iceland 4376
    Swithzerland 7919
    Italy 3391
    Spain 3248
    Finland 4033

    Yeap It appears we drastically underfund our health service :rolleyes:




    It's not my research. You put forward the proposal, all research responsibility is yours. You defend the challenge.


    And, as I said, our numbers would not stack up against countries of similar sizes (and make your argument more effective)


    You're welcome, btw


  • #8384
    Rob A. Bank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    paul71 wrote: »
    Ok I will do your research for you shall I,

    Ireland 5528
    Denmark 5205
    Belgium 4840
    Austria 5227
    Canada 4753
    Germary 5551
    UK 4192
    Isreal 2822
    Iceland 4376
    Swithzerland 7919
    Italy 3391
    Spain 3248
    Finland 4033

    Yeap It appears we drastically underfund our health service :rolleyes:

    Why not quote the percentage of GDP we spend on our health services ?


  • #8385
    iwillyeah1234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 445 ✭✭iwillyeah1234


    Hopkins : 666,211 cases. Over 30,000 deaths.
    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html


  • #8386
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    all about the mane wrote: »
    Not just my opinion.
    • If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
    • Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
    • Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
    • If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

    Wash your hands before putting it on.
    Wash your hands after disposing of it.

    Change your mask regularly.
    Never touch it, otherwise you need to change it.

    People aren't doing this.


  • #8387
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    At the very start, I kind of believed the people who said they don't stop it, till I realised they were talking about how they don't stop you getting it as much as it stops you spreading it. A very self-centered approach to placing a value on a mask's helpfulness.

    Vietnam has on the spot fines now for not wearing one and the traffic police are checking for no masks now more than anything else. It's also one of the most successful countries in dealing with all of this because of the extreme measures they're taking, so I think every country should be following the more successful ones' leads even if it's a bit socially awkward.

    As I've said before, if I were to sneeze in your direction, you'd wish I had a mask on to stop the phlegm.

    No need to reinvent the wheel !00% agree. We don't have our own version of the internet. This one works.


  • #8388
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,035 ✭✭✭jackboy


    all about the mane wrote: »
    Link?

    You will have to do your own research. I won’t ask you for a link proving that masks give no protection against contracting the virus.


  • #8389
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    jackboy wrote: »
    If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.

    Of course they are effective. In a few weeks time IF we have enough to go around the HSE will be advising on wearing them and the Gardai enforcing the wearing of them any time you leave your residence. It's about controling the narrative and not creating panic at the moment.


  • #8390
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,058 ✭✭✭✭fits


    iwillyeah1234 wrote: »
    Hopkins : 666,211 cases. Over 30,000 deaths.
    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

    Oh my that is rocketing. It will be a million by Tuesday at that rate.


  • #8391
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Of course they are effective. In a few weeks time IF we have enough to go around the HSE will be advising on wearing them and the Gardai enforcing the wearing of them any time you leave your residence. It's about controling the narrative and not creating panic at the moment.

    No they won't


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  • #8392
    a_squirrelman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    Any kind of mask or face covering (even a scarf) is mandatory in Czechia and Slovakia. The point being that anyone might have the virus and any kind of cover might hinder the spread if you are going to the shops or whatever.


  • #8393
    voluntary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    Everyone should wear masks today to avoid spreading this thing. There's no masks available though. Globally. So no responsible organization will recommend public to wear them. Simple.


  • #8394
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rob A. Bank wrote: »
    Why not quote the percentage of GDP we spend on our health services ?




    Because people like to cherry pick figures, which suit their arguments, rather than put forward a balanced and well investigated argument.



    That would take effort and may not agree with their mindset.


    Now, do I think our health service is underfunded? yes
    Do I think that most of that underfunding is caused by administrative black holes? yes


    Is all of my opinion from anecdotal evidence? Very much yes, but at least I can see/admit this.


    Do I think that the HSE needs a proper audit, with appropriate powers of investigation, with a guaranteed action based on results? Yes


    Will this ever happen? No, seen as political suicide.


  • #8395
    Lavinia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,102 ✭✭✭Lavinia


    all about the mane wrote: »
    Not just my opinion.
    • If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
    • Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
    • Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
    • If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.
    I can read the WHO website,



    but if you - as some know-it-all here - are basing your ''opinion'' on premises that all people are morons (their words not mine) then we obviously have nothing to talk about


    in other words - masks are effective if handled properly



    507445.jpg


  • #8396
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭paul71


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's not my research. You put forward the proposal, all research responsibility is yours. You defend the challenge.


    And, as I said, our numbers would not stack up against countries of similar sizes (and make your argument more effective)


    You're welcome, btw

    They do stack up to countries of similar, in fact they exceed them, seriously did you not read what you quoted?


  • #8397
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No, they are not. They are effective in clinical setting at preventing aerosol particles.


    Morons touching their masks, mouth, nose, surfaces etc will mean masks are less then useless. They become dangerous in giving said morons a false sense of security.

    spinbot


  • #8398
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    Lavinia wrote: »
    I can read the WHO website,



    but if you - as some know-it-all here - are basing your ''opinion'' on premises that all people are morons (their words not mine) then we obviously have nothing to talk about


    in other words - masks are effective if handled properly



    507445.jpg

    You may be able to read it but it seems you don't understand it. It says only people caring for a suspect/confirmed covid19 person should wear them. Do you see that?

    where did I call anyone a moron?


  • #8399
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Spain with 838 new deaths :(


  • #8400
    Bob24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    jackboy wrote: »
    If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.

    Definitely, and if this situation lasts for too long I suspect supply will increase and Western government will start changing tune.

    The same people who are now saying masks are useless won’t admit they were incorrect through, they will find reasons to say the situation has changed and they have now became useful ;-) (they might claim that the public which before was too dumb to use masks properly has now magically became experts in wearing them)


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  • #8401
    Kerry25x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Kerry25x


    Coyote wrote: »
    A total of 11 million masks, one million face shields and one million goggles for workers are on order.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-coronavirus-tests-5054225-Mar2020/

    this brings up an intresting questions what are they going to use 11 million mask for, can't be for the HSE can it?
    send them out to every house in Ireland?

    Coyote

    From looking at videos in other countries it looks like all covid patients are housed on wards together and staff can put on their PPE and leave it on. It's not like that here, not yet at least.

    We have single rooms with covid positive patients on wards that also keep general patients. So we can't just walk up the corridor in all our PPE, everything needs to come off and be disposed of when we leave that patients room.

    Also, all the suspected cases, of which there is more than confirmed cases, need masks worn when attending to them. So, we do need a lot of masks.


This discussion has been closed.
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