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Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

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    #272
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    FionnK86 wrote: »
    My question is, can landlords temporarily reduce rent without affecting the RPZ rules about not increasing rent?
    I don't believe this has been addressed to date. So, in all likely hood, if the LL reduces the rent, they will not be able to increase anymore that the 4% as per the RPZ.


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    #273
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FionnK86 wrote: »
    Mods, feel free to move following if too off-topic. I want to see how mechanics of rent reduction would work for my landlord before I approach him over same. We've had great relationship over last 3 years, he always fixes any issues & we keep house very clean.

    We're paying €2320 since last august, up from €2200 since we moved in 2018 as he needed to increase due to RPZ.

    I've had to take 40% reduction in pay, I'll still be able to make rent, but will have to live on €50 per week to pay internet, electricity, bins & gas & others bills which leaves me with €10 for grub. I split rent with 2 ladies working in nursing, so there jobs are secure, but mines looking bleak in the medium term future.

    My question is, can landlords temporarily reduce rent without affecting the RPZ rules about not increasing rent?

    I'm basically in the exact same boat. Due to meet landlord in the next week after eoin Murphys announcement. Best of luck. Let us know how it goes.


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    #274
    LeineGlas
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭LeineGlas


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    I know it may be difficult for people who have never worked and never paid income tax to understand, but tax usually isn't paid on a loss.

    "Non-homeowners are stupid and don't pay tax"

    Christ, between the IPOA's comments and individuals on here, we have a good insight the vile mindset of landlords.


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    #275
    FionnK86
    Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭FionnK86


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    You can’t afford to make rent by the sounds of it. Pay half for the next three months. It won’t affect your contract or the RPZ rules. Let him know what you’re doing upfront and why, via recorded conversation (email, written).

    Thanks a mil, I don't want to take advantage of him since he's been good landlord but same time I need to be able to have a safety net if the job goes. It's only ourselves he rents to & he's a taxi driver so his own business is in tatters too.


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    #276
    Roberto_gas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Does anyone know if requesting landlord who has advised of increase in rent from next month to cancel the increase a sound plan ?


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    #277
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Roberto_gas wrote: »
    Does anyone know if requesting landlord who has advised of increase in rent from next month to cancel the increase a sound plan ?

    It depends on what it was in being increased from. If it has been well below market rent all along and the increases only 4%, it would not be a good move to query it.


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    #278
    Roberto_gas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    It depends on what it was in being increased from. If it has been well below market rent all along and the increases only 4%, it would not be a good move to query it.

    Makes Sense ! It is below market alright


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    #279
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    You can’t afford to make rent by the sounds of it. Pay half for the next three months. It won’t affect your contract or the RPZ rules. Let him know what you’re doing upfront and why, via recorded conversation (email, written).

    You do know it does affect his contract. Ll can’t evict now but once this ends. He will be handed an eviction notice


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    #280
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Fol20 wrote: »
    You do know it does affect his contract. Ll can’t evict now but once this ends. He will be handed an eviction notice

    Has the emergency legislation already been published/passed? Without it there's no guessing how arrears are going to be handled.


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    #281
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Graham wrote: »
    Has the emergency legislation already been published/passed? Without it there's no guessing how arrears are going to be handled.

    The government are funny on the one hand they as landlords to hold back on evictions etc etc... then they say on the other hand we are going to bring in rent freezes. The landlord has to be treated fairly also. But it should be noted this rent freeze proposal is only for those who's salary have been affected by the coronavirus. So for welfare tenants it will be business as usual.


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    #282
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Graham wrote: »
    Has the emergency legislation already been published/passed? Without it there's no guessing how arrears are going to be handled.

    This legislation has not even been introduced to the oireachtas yet and their issues about the legality of passing legislation once the vote for the new Senate takes place.


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    #283
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    This legislation has not even been introduced to the oireachtas yet and their issues about the legality of passing legislation once the vote for the new Senate takes place.

    Interesting to see if a wage supplement like the UK comes in, will they abandon the idea of a rent freeze.


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    #284
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'm basically in the exact same boat. Due to meet landlord in the next week after eoin Murphys announcement. Best of luck. Let us know how it goes.

    When is Eoghan Murphy's announcement due? I haven't read anything about that.


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    #285
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    When is Eoghan Murphy's announcement due? I haven't read anything about that.

    Harris mentioned it last week but haven't heard anything since


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    #286
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    When is Eoghan Murphy's announcement due? I haven't read anything about that.

    Harris mentioned it last week but haven't heard anything since


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    #287
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    When is Eoghan Murphy's announcement due? I haven't read anything about that.

    Harris mentioned it last week but haven't heard anything since


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    #288
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,130 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Fol20 wrote: »
    You do know it does affect his contract. Ll can’t evict now but once this ends. He will be handed an eviction notice

    The guy has no choice, he broke his money down. If people act in good faith and communicate clearly in writing - crucially paying the full amount as soon as they are able - the courts will not evict when it comes to it.


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    #289
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    The guy has no choice, he broke his money down. If people act in good faith and communicate clearly in writing - crucially paying the full amount as soon as they are able - the courts will not evict when it comes to it.

    You are making a lot of assumptions. Any freeze, if it does happen, will be a suspension of payment, not forgiveness. In other words, the tenant will still owe the money. This is going to be a temporary, and a God willing, relatively short lived crisis compared to the recession which lasted 7 years. Telling people there is be no evictions is at best naive and ill informed, at worst, spreading fake news. The Government might suspend evictions for 3 months, but eventually the system will return to normal and by that time, unfortunately rent will have accumulated and will fall due. Landlords may agree to spread the accumulated amount over the tenancy or leave payment until the end, but hat would be incredibly risky and I’m sure will not appeal to many.


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    #290
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,996 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Harris mentioned it last week but haven't heard anything since

    As far as I remember he said it would be announced this Wednesday


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    #291
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    joeguevara wrote: »
    As far as I remember he said it would be announced this Wednesday

    I hunk it is due for discussion in the Dail on Thursday. Other EU countries guaranteeing employees up to 80% of wages will put pressure on the Government, it would be difficult to see a situation arising where there is both a wage guarantee and a rent freeze.


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    #292
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,996 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I hunk it is due for discussion in the Dail on Thursday. Other EU countries guaranteeing employees up to 80% of wages will put pressure on the Government, it would be difficult to see a situation arising where there is both a wage guarantee and a rent freeze.

    The 80% guarantee that was announced by the U.K. is up to max of 2.5k a month and heard nothing else since. It was done to appease and no one knows if it will be followed through.

    Police on the Isle of Man arrested a man for allegedly failing to self-isolate, and he could face a fine of up to £10,000 or a three month prison sentence. This is needed more than anything else.


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    #293
    7SGNFF
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭7SGNFF


    A rent freeze is not free rent, it is an accumulation of arrears. This is scary for all LLs because if tenants are unable to pay any rent now what possibility for the payment of, both rent and arrears, when we come out of this crisis. Today I spoke with the local branch of EBS by phone and they have effectively moved the goal posts by introducing exclusions. Their interpretation is that if the exclusions are not specificially mentioned then they are excluded e.g. Buy to Let is excluded therefore the LL would need to apply for 'interest only payment' over a specific time say 3 months. I asked where I can get a full list of the exclusions and was told this is an interpretation, they have no list to send me. The problem with this approach is the Mortgage Freeze is in General Terms while interpretation will chip away at this.


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    #294
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Taxes will go up after this is over to pay for the government intervention. That will sap the recovery also


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    #295
    c0rk3r
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭c0rk3r


    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2020/4/eng/ver_a/b04a20dpdf-as-passed-by-de.pdf

    Prohibition on rent increases under Act of 2004
    6. Notwithstanding the Act of 2004, an increase in the rent under the tenancy of a
    dwelling—
    (a) that, but for this section, would take effect during the emergency period shall not
    take effect during that period, and
    (b) shall not be payable in respect of any period falling during the emergency period.

    -to make provision in relation to the operation of certain provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 during the period of 3 months following the enactment of this Act and such further period (if any) as maybe specified by order of the Government

    Passed by government yesterday and currently with the Seanad


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    #296
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    c0rk3r wrote: »
    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2020/4/eng/ver_a/b04a20dpdf-as-passed-by-de.pdf

    Prohibition on rent increases under Act of 2004
    6. Notwithstanding the Act of 2004, an increase in the rent under the tenancy of a
    dwelling—
    (a) that, but for this section, would take effect during the emergency period shall not
    take effect during that period, and
    (b) shall not be payable in respect of any period falling during the emergency period.

    -to make provision in relation to the operation of certain provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 during the period of 3 months following the enactment of this Act and such further period (if any) as maybe specified by order of the Government

    Passed by government yesterday and currently with the Seanad


    Thanks C0rk3r. This thread is more about moratoriums on rents rather than a ban on increases. Sorry my thread title should have been clearer. Only pointing this out as were a number of pages in from the OP.


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    #297
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    c0rk3r wrote: »
    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2020/4/eng/ver_a/b04a20dpdf-as-passed-by-de.pdf

    Prohibition on rent increases under Act of 2004
    6. Notwithstanding the Act of 2004, an increase in the rent under the tenancy of a
    dwelling—
    (a) that, but for this section, would take effect during the emergency period shall not
    take effect during that period, and
    (b) shall not be payable in respect of any period falling during the emergency period.

    -to make provision in relation to the operation of certain provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 during the period of 3 months following the enactment of this Act and such further period (if any) as maybe specified by order of the Government

    Passed by government yesterday and currently with the Seanad

    What will happen if a rent increase was already notified 3 months ago and is due to take affect during this crisis?

    -is it deferred until after the crisis?
    -do you need the rent increase process again after this crisis and wait another 3months plus this crisis?
    -as the rent increase was initiated before this. Technically it was started before this so should still be paid while new initiations cannot take place?


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    #298
    Ap2020
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭Ap2020


    Fol20 wrote: »
    What will happen if a rent increase was already notified 3 months ago and is due to take affect during this crisis?

    -is it deferred until after the crisis?
    -do you need the rent increase process again after this crisis and wait another 3months plus this crisis?
    -as the rent increase was initiated before this. Technically it was started before this so should still be paid while new initiations cannot take place?


    Any increase that was due to take effect during the crisis will not now take effect, regardless of when it was notified.

    If it were me, I would avoid the issue by simply cancelling the previous notice and beginning the process again with an increase date to take effect after the crisis.

    It will be interesting to see how the RTB view this. Technically the number of reviews is limited to one a year - could one see a review, cancellation, and reinstatement of the review as being two reviews and therefore invalid.


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    #299
    c0rk3r
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭c0rk3r


    Just to note, im not an authority on this and will refer to the RTB once this is signed into Law by Michael D. Presuming there's no amendments made in the Seanad.

    1) I imagine it will be deferred until after the emergency period
    2) I think that would be unfair on landlords if another 90 notice is required
    3) I think that's covered by 6(a).It was initiated but did not come into effect - no increases can some into effect during the emergency period. I don't know what the story is with initiating new 90 days notices - i imagine their out the window until the crisis is over.


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    #300
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Ap2020 wrote: »
    A.

    It will be interesting to see how the RTB view this. Technically the number of reviews is limited to one a year - could one see a review, cancellation, and reinstatement of the review as being two reviews and therefore invalid.

    They have done so before where there was a faulty review. . In any case with rents falling, unless the rent was well below market levels to start with, there will be no reality to an increase.


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    #301
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Spoke to my landlord. He said if a rent freeze came in, he would pass it down to us. We are paying the end of this month in full but will review for next month since things are changing day by day. Four of us in the house; One of which owns their own business (effectively has a salary of zero now), another took a 50% pay cut, the other two are unaffected. So we will more than likely need some kind of concession going forward.

    My housemates are under the impression that anything we don't pay, we will have to pay back in the future. I'm trying to convince them that isn't the case but they are dismissing me. I'm under the impression that if interests and mortgages are frozen, these (say) 3 months of freeze will be tacked onto the end of my LL's mortgage. Whoever is then in the property for those 3 months at the end of the mortgage will absorb the cost. Am I wrong? Obviously thinking about this selfishly right now.


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