Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

handlemaster

handlemaster wrote: »

Speaking to reporters at Government Buildings yesterday, Donohoe said he would be speaking to Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy about enforcement measures, adding that from all of the discussions in relation to a rent freeze and rent pressure zones the government believes there are “legal constraints in place in relation to the ability of any government to intervene in the contract between landlords and tenants”.

And the government have screwed the landlords for years . Now it appears they cannot bring in a rent freeze and apply the morality stick. If they think people should pay less why dont the government pay the difference. Why is it always the landlord that has to prop up tenants it's a business which the government are very happy to tax handsomely. The government are solely responsible for social provision but they have neglected that for years

Touchee

JustAThought wrote: »

I suspect there will he an increase in landlords selling the defaulting tenants debt to a debt collection company where they will hounf and harass them wherever they are or go. Plenty of private debt collection companies prepared to lift a car or other assets to obtain closure on a debt.

As regards the hoards of self entitled demanding to live for free or use services for free - have you jot consodered a credit inion loan to cover your debts and obligations or asking your parents for financial help - or allowing the leade to lapse and moving out and back in with your family. Your service provider does not owe you anything - you oay for yhe service or you cannot afford it and move out. Stealing services and self entitled demands on strangers seems to be the theme here - it is all 18-20 years olds with no morals who have sprung from spce with no families or people who want them that are prepared to help them? They are quick enough to demand it from strangers.

No, haven’t considered any of that. Family live 200km away, can’t really leave our almost endangered jobs.

We really are in a precarious situation. If both of us are let go, the paltry support offered by the government would cover 70% of the rent and we would have no money for food or bills. Most companies have a rent freeze going on so it would be tough to get another job.

As of yet, we haven’t lost our jobs, but I’m defo taking a pay cut next week. Won’t be defaulting on the rent payment, but you never know could happen next month.

If the Government introduced measures similar to UK in terms of employee and business support then there would be no need to think of pausing rent payments. But as it stands, all the government has offered is the normal social welfare payment which is sweet f..k all

jrosen

jrosen wrote: »

I was only thinking the same. Im a landlord and the property has a mortgage on it. So I wont be allowing any rent break.The mortgage still has to be paid. Even if I got a break on the mortgage, it will be tagged onto the end for me and ultimately I will take the hit.

I dont see how there could be a break for renters.

For all those who misunderstood. I never once said I wouldnt pass on a break if I got one. Although I can see it reads that way. What I pointed out was that ultimately Ill take the hit, the mortgage payments and interest dont disappear.

I accept its the risk we have chosen to take for the long term gain (hopefully). What I take issue with is the government making decisions over a property that I own (well the bank), that we maintain and are taxed through the arse for.

We have a contingency for events like this. But now if my tenants stop paying, regardless of ability to pay we now are locked into not being able to do anything about it. Granted its for 3 months but as someone who likes to plan ahead and plan for the unknown it concerns me that this 3 month break might become longer.

It is not my responsibility to house people for free. My tenants are great, but we have had numerous times where their rent has been late, significantly late. We have been fair, given flexibility. We have never taken a hard line with them. They are paying well below current market value for the area. We could have not renewed their lease at any stage and put the house back on the market for more money but we haven't. We feel what they are paying is a fair rent.

c0rk3r

Just checked daft there. There's 2 bed apartments now available for what I pay for a 1 bed...

LeineGlas

Pkiernan wrote: »

Easy way to implement rent freeze is for the landlord not to have to pay tax on the rent when it resumes until such time as the landlord is back to parity.

Everyone's a winner, no ones a loser.

Landlords always looking to weasel out of contributing to society.

Varik

Varik wrote: »

There's no limits on rent decreases, but any decreased will be locked in going forwards. if you dropped by 50% it'd take 25 years of 4% yearly increases to get back up.

We may be in an interesting scenario where half of Dublin wants to move house simply to significantly reduce their rent

Varik

Deleted User wrote: »

We may be in an interesting scenario where half of Dublin wants to move house simply to significantly reduce their rent

Current situation where existing tenants are trying to stay in their places, but if they've to move to any of the new rental then those are at the higher market rate.

To where as you say they're trying to move.

Problem is that supply is still needed but if prices fall then so does the drive for new supply, and added to this many LL got locked into a below market rate as we came out of recession so are they going to be wary of that. Even if the RPZ is repealed, another one could be quickly done again.

Dav010

Seems Dharma is partly right, owners of short let properties are putting them onto the rental market, not enough to effect the market in a big way, but it is early days.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEIVAX8y7J_5wrueXoDT2pOYqGAgEKg8IACoHCAowyNLTATDN-jUwjbOhAQ?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen


https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiZGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnJ0ZS5pZS9uZXdzL2J1c2luZXNzLzIwMjAvMDMyMC8xMTI0NDQyLWJpZy1yaXNlLWluLWR1Ymxpbi1jaXR5LXJlbnRhbHMtaW4tbWFyY2gtZGFmdC1pZS_SAR9odHRwczovL3d3dy5ydGUuaWUvYW1wLzExMjQ0NDIv?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE:en

Irish_peppa

Deleted User wrote: »

We may be in an interesting scenario where half of Dublin wants to move house simply to significantly reduce their rent

I would reckon any landlord who is currently charging current high market rents that recieves communication from any of their GOOD tenants that they are moving to a better value place would immediately drop or start to haggle a better price. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush dont ya know:cool:

handlemaster

LeineGlas wrote: »

Landlords always looking to weasel out of contributing to society.

How have they not paid their fair share. You do know most of the rent goes back to the government and the lending bank.

handlemaster

Irish_peppa wrote: »

I would reckon any landlord who is currently charging current high market rents that recieves communication from any of their GOOD tenants that they are moving to a better value place would immediately drop or start to haggle a better price. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush dont ya know:cool:

Demand is still there. Will take a while for that attitude to take hold. But it is interesting that tenants will try that and why not. So no complaining when rent goes up. It works both ways.

handlemaster

c0rk3r wrote: »

Just checked daft there. There's 2 bed apartments now available for what I pay for a 1 bed...

But are you going to move ? And would you get that apartment. There are apts that are stuck in low rent due to the rent increase restrictions this might have nothing to do with coronavirus

Pkiernan

LeineGlas wrote: »

Landlords always looking to weasel out of contributing to society.

I know it may be difficult for people who have never worked and never paid income tax to understand, but tax usually isn't paid on a loss.

DubCount

LeineGlas wrote: »

Landlords always looking to weasel out of contributing to society.

Public Opinion always looking to weasel out of being fair to everyone - including landlords. No wonder they are selling up and leaving.

Claw Hammer

JustAThought wrote: »

I suspect there will he an increase in landlords selling the defaulting tenants debt to a debt collection company where they will hounf and harass them wherever they are or go. .

How will be an increase? There's no one doing it at the moment. The landlord has to go to the RTB Get a determination for an amount of money owed, then have the Determination Order made an order of the court, in the District Court. After that he has a debt he can sell. The only problem is, by this time, the tenant is long gone. You can bet your bottom dollar no one is buying such debts.

handlemaster

handlemaster wrote: »

How have they not paid their fair share. You do know most of the rent goes back to the government and the lending bank.

Ah yes. The old, "Landlord does everything as a charity to help society" trope.

Been a while since I saw that.

I have no problem with landlordism if it's fair. But it is (and has been for a longtime) drastically unfair.

So, sorry I'm not crying into my cornflakes that landlords are hopefully going to be like everyone else, and take the hit from covid-19.

Yellow_Fern

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah yes. The old, "Landlord does everything as a charity to help society" trope.

Been a while since I saw that.

I have no problem with landlordism if it's fair. But it is (and has been for a longtime) drastically unfair.

So, sorry I'm not crying into my cornflakes that landlords are hopefully going to be like everyone else, and take the hit from covid-19.

The poster noted that landlords pay their fair share of taxes like everyone else (actually landlord income is taxed more punitively than employment income), and you respond by accusing them of claiming they are a charity. What an infactual emotional response. If you think landlord are being unfair, grow up and set up a business that provides a better service.

BTW landlords are a private sector business. Many employees such as those wont be hit by covid 19. So not everyone will take a hit from Corona.

handlemaster

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The poster noted that landlords pay their fair share of taxes like everyone else (actually landlord income is taxed more punitively than employment income), and you respond by accusing them of claiming they are a charity. What an infactual emotional response. If you think landlord are being unfair, grow up and set up a business that provides a better service.

BTW landlords are a private sector business. Many employees such as those wont be hit by covid 19. So not everyone will take a hit from Corona.

Well said. The previous reply to my comment was expressing their dislike of landlords not really adding anything constructive. Lots jumping on the reduce the rent like its magic.

Yellow_Fern

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

BTW landlords are a private sector business. Many employees such as those wont be hit by covid 19. So not everyone will take a hit from Corona.

I'm sorry, what?

Private sector business won't be hit by covid-19?
Employees of private sector business won't be hit?

Are you serious right now? Or just more landlord exceptionalism on display?

handlemaster

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm sorry, what?

Private sector business won't be hit by covid-19?
Employees of private sector business won't be hit?

Are you serious right now? Or just more landlord exceptionalism on display?

Chill out there. Way over the top. Come back with a decent argument and spot attacking posters.

handlemaster

handlemaster wrote: »

Chill out there. Way over the top. Come back with a decent argument and spot attacking posters.

.
I'm sorry, who are you?


I'm self employed. I've lost in the region of 20k due to CV.

Landlords exceptionalism is absolutely disgusting to see atm. His post was typical head in the sand nonsense.

If you have a problem with a post, report it.

handlemaster

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.
I'm sorry, who are you?


I'm self employed. I've lost in the region of 20k due to CV.

Landlords exceptionalism is absolutely disgusting to see atm. His post was typical head in the sand nonsense.

If you have a problem with a post, report it.

Again you need to stop with personal attacks.
"Who are you ?" No need for such comments.



And landlords have immunity to coronavirus! We are all in it together. Landlords are been asked to take a hit as if the rent is gravy and not the income that pays the bills.

Graham

Mod Note

The last few posts are way below an acceptable standard here in A & P. Please fix that.

Any more backseat moderation or bashing of a particular demographic (landlords or tenants) will not end well.

Dav010

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have no problem with landlordism if it's fair. But it is (and has been for a longtime) drastically unfair.
.

“Landlordism”, run within the regulations is like any other business, it is there to make a profit. You may think that is unfair, but then all business is unfair.

<SNIP>

Marcusm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The poster noted that landlords pay their fair share of taxes like everyone else (actually landlord income is taxed more punitively than employment income), and you respond by accusing them of claiming they are a charity. What an infactual emotional response. If you think landlord are being unfair, grow up and set up a business that provides a better service.

BTW landlords are a private sector business. Many employees such as those wont be hit by covid 19. So not everyone will take a hit from Corona.

How is rental income taxed more punitively than employment income in any material way?

Claw Hammer

Marcusm wrote: »

How is rental income taxed more punitively than employment income in any material way?

Deductible superannuation contributions can't be made from it for a start.

Yellow_Fern

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry, what?

Private sector business won't be hit by covid-19?
Employees of private sector business won't be hit?

Are you serious right now? Or just more landlord exceptionalism on display?

Public sector wont be hit in income. That is what I meant. Some of the private wont be hit in terms of income as. I guess we will all face tax raises of some sort. I am just emphasizing that it will hit people differently and thus its not a uniquely privileged landlord class vs everyone else. Actually even if it was it would be no relevance. How privileged landlords are has no bearing on the housing crisis and I am not a landlord. Way to much hassle for me.

FionnK86

Mods, feel free to move following if too off-topic. I want to see how mechanics of rent reduction would work for my landlord before I approach him over same. We've had great relationship over last 3 years, he always fixes any issues & we keep house very clean.

We're paying €2320 since last august, up from €2200 since we moved in 2018 as he needed to increase due to RPZ.

I've had to take 40% reduction in pay, I'll still be able to make rent, but will have to live on €50 per week to pay internet, electricity, bins & gas & others bills which leaves me with €10 for grub. I split rent with 2 ladies working in nursing, so there jobs are secure, but mines looking bleak in the medium term future.

My question is, can landlords temporarily reduce rent without affecting the RPZ rules about not increasing rent?

LuckyLloyd

You can’t afford to make rent by the sounds of it. Pay half for the next three months. It won’t affect your contract or the RPZ rules. Let him know what you’re doing upfront and why, via recorded conversation (email, written).