CoVid19 Part X - 1,564 cases ROI (9 deaths) 209 in NI (7 deaths) (25 March) Read OP

Andrea B. · 23-03-2020 07:51AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Watched this terrifying clip from Sky News, and have a question

When he was in the ICU, he says they observe the patients from a distance as the patients are so contagious.

I always assumed you got the virus from someone coughing or sneezing on you, or you touching a surface they have left the virus on?

But surely a patient lying motionless on a ventilator isn't dangerous to approach, especially when you are gowned up so heavily?

Am I wrong?

If you are close enough to smell someone's body or breath, it means you are breathing in molecules that were on that person.
If a person was infected, those molecules could be carrying the virus.

sudzs · 23-03-2020 07:55AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Watched this terrifying clip from Sky News, and have a question

When he was in the ICU, he says they observe the patients from a distance as the patients are so contagious.

I always assumed you got the virus from someone coughing or sneezing on you, or you touching a surface they have left the virus on?

But surely a patient lying motionless on a ventilator isn't dangerous to approach, especially when you are gowned up so heavily?

Am I wrong?

Belt and braces (and everything else) approach I'd imagine.

I think in the future there will be tough decisions on who is ventilated. It won't even be to ventilate the younger patients, it will be which younger patients do we ventilate.

darjeeling · 23-03-2020 07:55AM

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

My point is they do not know if anyone is immune. Without testing everyone they won't know.

It's a paradox which can not be accounted for without testing everyone. The logical conclusion is no-one is immune because there have been so many cases. But the lack of symptoms in confirmed cases should be enough evidence that some people are immune. Immunity means you are resistant to the effects it has on you, it does not necessarily mean you will have no symptoms it just means your body is more adept at fighting the infection that makes you feel unwell. Someone else's immune system may not be as proficient!

The catch is: with immunity comes a more proficient pathogen. If this mutates into something stronger the next time around you may not be immune. With more cases the more chances it has at mutating.

Immunity here means that someone has an adaptive immune memory from a previous exposure to the virus.
Infection and recovery leaves someone with a persistent population of antibody-producing cells specific to the virus.
Reinfection leads to rapid proliferation of these cells, which then rapidly produce neutralising antibodies.
That clears the virus before gains a foothold to start replicating and causing symptoms and shedding of virus to infect others.
(tech note - T cell memory may also result from infection, not just B cell memory, so both arms of the adaptive immune system may be involved, not just antibodies)

Anyone not previously infected would be expected to be susceptible to infection, and would take time to mount an adaptive immune response.
The degree to which the infection progresses in someone not previously infected will vary, so the symptoms may differ in severity, but the immune process would be the same:
non-specific innate immune response as the first line of defence to limit the spread of the virus, followed by a more powerful targeted adaptive response that clears the virus.

For anyone not previously infected to be resistant to infection would require some major biological difference, such as not having the ACE2 receptor that the virus exploits to get into your cells, or having so many mutations in it that the virus can't lock onto the receptor.
There's no sign that there are people with anything like those differences (at least not above negligible numbers), so we can assume that we're essentially all susceptible.

As for viral evolution, yes, the more people that get infected, the more opportunities there are for mutation, and the more selection there will be for a new strain of the virus that is different enough to escape recognition by antibodies from the previous infection.
That doesn't necessarily mean it's 'stronger', just as each cold or flu strain you get isn't necessarily any worse than the previous one.
But it does mean that, if this stays around, it will in time evolve so you can get it again, and any vaccine will need to be updated to ensure it's still effective.

lawred2 · 23-03-2020 07:57AM

signostic wrote: »

Romey voted in favour of impeachment...

?

DOCARCH · 23-03-2020 07:58AM

sudzs wrote: »

Belt and braces (and everything else) approach I'd imagine.(

I would also assume anybody in ICU would have a high viral load.

sudzs · 23-03-2020 08:01AM

darjeeling wrote: »

Immunity here means that someone has an adaptive immune memory from a previous exposure to the virus.
Infection and recovery leaves someone with a persistent population of antibody-producing cells specific to the virus.
Reinfection leads to rapid proliferation of these cells, which then rapidly produce neutralising antibodies.
That clears the virus before gains a foothold to start replicating and causing symptoms and shedding of virus to infect others.
(tech note - T cell memory may also result from infection, not just B cell memory, so both arms of the adaptive immune system may be involved, not just antibodies)

Anyone not previously infected would be expected to be susceptible to infection, and would take time to mount an adaptive immune response.
The degree to which the infection progresses in someone not previously infected will vary, so the symptoms may differ in severity, but the immune process would be the same:
non-specific innate immune response as the first line of defence to limit the spread of the virus, followed by a more powerful targeted adaptive response that clears the virus.

For anyone not previously infected to be resistant to infection would require some major biological difference, such as not having the ACE2 receptor that the virus exploits to get into your cells, or having so many mutations in it that the virus can't lock onto the receptor.
There's no sign that there are people with anything like those differences (at least not above negligible numbers), so we can assume that we're essentially all susceptible.

As for viral evolution, yes, the more people that get infected, the more opportunities there are for mutation, and the more selection there will be for a new strain of the virus that is different enough to escape recognition by antibodies from the previous infection.
That doesn't necessarily mean it's 'stronger', just as each cold or flu strain you get isn't necessarily any worse than the previous one.
But it does mean that, if this stays around, it will in time evolve so you can get it again, and any vaccine will need to be updated to ensure it's still effective.

Any theories about why some people have severe illness and some have mild?

Is it differences in individuals immune systems response? Or the amount of virus that infects them? Or maybe some have more receptors???

Or probably a combination.

pc7 · 23-03-2020 08:06AM

So I’ve been working from home with the smallies since Friday 13th (today is day 11). My husband has been working but very careful when he gets home in terms of cleaning himself etc. None of us showing any signs thankfully, are we past the incubation phase now or is it 14 days?
I’ve asthma so really trying to avoid getting it. Doing online shopping, wiping food packages down before putting them away etc.

sudzs · 23-03-2020 08:11AM

pc7 wrote: »

So I’ve been working from home with the smallies since Friday 13th (today is day 11). My husband has been working but very careful when he gets home in terms of cleaning himself etc. None of us showing any signs thankfully, are we past the incubation phase now or is it 14 days?
I’ve asthma so really trying to avoid getting it. Doing online shopping, wiping food packages down before putting them away etc.

Well done on surviving 11 days with the smallies. 👍

But I'm afraid your husband is the weak link here. He could be symptom free but still infectious. To protect yourself you might need to consider isolation from him. Not easy.

pc7 · 23-03-2020 08:15AM

Thanks Sudz they’ve been very good in fairness. Yeah I’d like him to stop working tbh he wants to keep going as long as he is allowed. Might send him to the spare room!

darjeeling · 23-03-2020 08:19AM

sudzs wrote: »

Any theories about why some people have severe illness and some have mild?

Is it differences in individuals immune systems response? Or the amount of virus that infects them? Or maybe some have more receptors???

Or probably a combination.

I don't really know - probably lots of things, and I'm sure a doctor would know more than me about who generally gets things worse.

I guess, though, if you're generally run down, your immune response is going to be less effective etc.

I have read papers where mice were infected with different amounts of virus, and the more they got the worse they fared.
Some people think that could be a factor in infections of healthcare workers during outbreaks like this, because they probably get higher exposure.

Then there are things specific to particular diseases, like high blood pressure seeming to be linked to worse outcomes with this new virus - probably due to some biology of the hormonal system for blood pressure regulation, in which the ACE2 receptor plays a role.

SEPT 23 1989 · 23-03-2020 08:21AM

Another 1000 on the dole tomorrow when Mc Donald's closes its doors this evening

Speak Now · 23-03-2020 08:24AM

China 39 new cases, 9 new deaths (all in Hubei), and 459 new discharges. For the 5th day in a row, no new confirmed or suspected cases have been reported in Wuhan and in Hubei.

whiskeyman · 23-03-2020 08:27AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Another 1000 on the dole tomorrow when Mc Donald's closes its doors this evening

Aren't they one of the largest buyers of Irish meat and maybe spuds too?

Knock on impact in farming.

voluntary · 23-03-2020 08:28AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Another 1000 on the dole tomorrow when Mc Donald's closes its doors this evening

Is the State still asking people to queue in an post offices to get their social welfare payment? If so then it's maybe a time to use bank transfer instead to avoid the virus community transmission?

sudzs · 23-03-2020 08:28AM

darjeeling wrote: »

I don't really know - probably lots of things, and I'm sure a doctor would know more than me about who generally gets things worse.

I guess, though, if you're generally run down, your immune response is going to be less effective etc.

I have read papers where mice were infected with different amounts of virus, and the more they got the worse they fared.
Some people think that could be a factor in infections of healthcare workers during outbreaks like this, because they probably get higher exposure.

Then there are things specific to particular diseases, like high blood pressure seeming to be linked to worse outcomes with this new virus - probably due to some biology of the hormonal system for blood pressure regulation, in which the ACE2 receptor plays a role.

Yes, and I suppose health workers are worn out with stress and exhaustion too so immunity compromised before they are infected with lots of the virus.

whiskeyman · 23-03-2020 08:31AM

DisneyLover wrote: »

This is the main problem.
The paramedic told me my HR being high most likely means I had it and now its almost or fully gone! So anyone can have it right now and not know. I self isolated cause I work a huge hospital and can't put people or my mum whos ill at risk.
Self isolate unless youre going to work/the shops etc

HR?

darjeeling · 23-03-2020 08:33AM

whiskeyman wrote: »

HR?

heart rate

SEPT 23 1989 · 23-03-2020 08:34AM

whiskeyman wrote: »

Aren't they one of the largest buyers of Irish meat and maybe spuds too?

Knock on impact in farming.

40,000 tons a year

voluntary · 23-03-2020 08:35AM

https://www.echolive.ie/nationalnews/An-Post-introducing-two-week-Social-Welfare-payments-bb554c48-907b-4164-9326-51f1f549b41f-ds

A two-week payment will be made this week to most Social Welfare payment customers with the exception of those in receipt of Jobseeker and Working Family payments, Supplementary Welfare Allowance, One Parent Family Payment and Rent Supplement. These customers will receive their regular payment this week and the two-week payment from next week.

All payments will be held at the post office for 90 days to enable customers to plan post office and shopping visits when best suits them.

An Post is urging its customers to observe social distancing while inside a post office or waiting outside and they ask that customers do not bring children to the post office.

This is ridiculous.
We ask people not to go to parks where there may be other people but at the same time telling 150.000 or so people who lost their jobs due to covic-19 to queue in post offices to collect their dole? Nobody thought this is asking for a disaster??? WTF can't they do bank account transfers for a few weeks?

gozunda · 23-03-2020 08:35AM

whiskeyman wrote: »

HR?

Heart rate?

greenpilot · 23-03-2020 08:36AM

Originally Posted by ThePopehimself View Post
"Finally, you got tested Disney Lover.

Thank you so much for sharing that. I wish you well.
Thats very much "

Disney Lover and the Pope himself. That's a fun day out right there.

1hnr79jr65 · 23-03-2020 08:37AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Another 1000 on the dole tomorrow when Mc Donald's closes its doors this evening

Mc Donald's seem to be closing to public but they also said they will look at supplying food locally. Maybe feeding quarantined, homeless and hse working staff ?

Which would mean they would need alot of their staff for prep and production.

Sir Oxman · 23-03-2020 08:39AM

voluntary wrote: »

Is the State still asking people to queue in an post offices to get their social welfare payment? If so then it's maybe a time to use bank transfer instead to avoid the virus community transmission?

There is a nomination form available at POs to obv. nominate someone to collect on behalf of a client.
I'm pretty sure there is a form available on DEASP website for payment to bank accounts. And I think restrictions are being relaxed on this but you are better off having a look yourself.
Also this week payments are being made fortnightly for some payments, by next week all payments will be made fortnightly.
Payments also kept for 90 days @ PO's if someone cannot collect.
An Post site, DEASP website, Citizens Advice website are handy.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/
https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation/department-of-employment-affairs-and-social-protection/?referrer=https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Other-supports_holder_9756.aspx
https://www.anpost.com/Media-Centre/News/COVID-19-Customer-Notice
https://www.anpost.com/Media-Centre/News/Special-arrangements-in-place-for-DEASP-customers

greenpilot · 23-03-2020 08:40AM

Why are people who already have the virus being tested? People with no symptoms should be tested and, if clear, they are the ones who should be isolated to protect them from others who have the virus. Is it not a waste of resources testing those already showing symptoms?

voluntary · 23-03-2020 08:43AM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

There is a nomination form available at POs to obv. nominate someone to collect on behalf of a client.
I'm pretty sure there is a form available on DEASP website for payment to bank accounts. And I think restrictions are being relaxed on this but you are better off having a look yourself.
Also this week payments are being made fortnightly for some payments, by next week all payments will be made fortnightly.
Payments also kept for 90 days @ PO's if someone cannot collect.
An Post site, DEASP website, Citizens Advice website are handy.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/
https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation/department-of-employment-affairs-and-social-protection/?referrer=https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Other-supports_holder_9756.aspx
https://www.anpost.com/Media-Centre/News/COVID-19-Customer-Notice
https://www.anpost.com/Media-Centre/News/Special-arrangements-in-place-for-DEASP-customers

It just sounds mad that the State asks so many thousands of people to risk transmission queuing at this time. The gov could surely do better on this one.

Get Real · 23-03-2020 08:45AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Another 1000 on the dole tomorrow when Mc Donald's closes its doors this evening

Yeah, closer to 4000 full and part time, then as other posters mentioned, the spin off jobs.

400 million patties made and exported from Waterford each year. Hopefully that takes the sting out of it for local staff there due to exports to France, Germany etc. But there'll be curtailment of hours.

Also then the delivery company, security company providing a contract, the egg supplier in Monaghan, even milk supplier and Ballygowan. Thousands of units a day cut.
.

Gooey Looey · 23-03-2020 08:46AM

greenpilot wrote: »

Why are people who already have the virus being tested? People with no symptoms should be tested and, if clear, they are the ones who should be isolated to protect them from others who have the virus. Is it not a waste of resources testing those already showing symptoms?

A negative test is a wasted test. You could test negative today, you may contract it tomorrow so it means nothing. Confirming those who actually have it is their plan

greenpilot · 23-03-2020 08:48AM

Gooey Looey wrote: »

A negative test is a wasted test. You could test negative today, you may contract it tomorrow so it means nothing. Confirming those who actually have it is their plan

Thanks

Snipp · 23-03-2020 08:48AM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

That has always been the rule here.

You're mistaken.

Sir Oxman · 23-03-2020 08:48AM

voluntary wrote: »

It just sounds mad that the State asks so many thousands of people to risk transmission queuing at this time. The gov could surely do better on this one.

I agree but getting all in place will take time I suppose.

The relaxation of EFT's should be high priority.
I posted last week about the queue outside my local Intreo office - people laid off because of covid19 literally standing on each others lips, they wouldn't be that close normal times - quite amazing behaviour.

CoVid19 Part X - 1,564 cases ROI (9 deaths) 209 in NI (7 deaths) (25 March) *Read OP*

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CoVid19 Part X - 1,564 cases ROI (9 deaths) 209 in NI (7 deaths) (25 March) Read OP