Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

CoVid-19 Part IX - 785 cases ROI (3 deaths) 108 in NI (1 death) (20 March) *Read OP*

16869717374325

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    I've translated this from a post written by an Emergency Medical Dispatcher (118) in Lombardy.

    His credentials check out.
    Do you know what happening in the area around Lodi where all this began?
    People who call the emergency services are asking for help.

    But do you know what they ask?
    They simply ask for help.
    They expect nothing.
    And, incredibly, they’re not shouting, insulting or threatening.
    They’re kind. They apologise for bothering us and patiently and quietly wait hours before someone can listen to them and hopefully help them, even if just over the phone.

    Those of you not living here will not understand why they’re so remissive and resigned.
    I do.
    And I’ll try to explain.

    I get a call from Lucia.
    She lives in a house on two levels.
    She’s 55 and lives on the first floor, is in quarantine with her two sons.
    I ask if she needs anything.
    She tells me her mother lives on the floor above.
    I ask if they’ve had contact with anyone tested positive for coronavirus.

    She begins.
    Gianni, her 57-year old husband is in intensive care on a ventilator.
    Stefano, her 49-year old brother died the other day while in intensive care.
    He’s not in the same ICU as her husband as there were no more places.

    Her husband was taken away a week ago by ambulance with a fever and breathing difficulties.
    Lucia hasn’t seen or heard from him since then.
    Every day she waits for a phone call from the ward to find out if her husband is still alive or whether he’s making a recovery.

    Her voice trembles as she tells me and I don’t have the courage to interrupt her.
    I don’t want to interrupt her while she’s speaking to me even though I have 20 call waiting after her.
    It’s been like this for days and will continue like this for a lot more I’m sure.
    She finally takes a break and I can continue to understand how I can help her.
    She tells me she’s calling about her mother.
    Lucia’s mother lives on the ground floor.
    She’s 88.
    She’s had a fever for several days, she’s weak and has a wheezy cough.
    Her GP is following her.
    Lucia and her mum are lucky.
    Their GP is not sick or in quarantine.
    The doctor got her an x-ray and got oxygen delivered because she has trouble breathing.
    She tells me the doctor has just made a house call and recommends she be admitted to hospital because he doesn’t know how to manager her situation.
    She adds that the doctor wanted to speak to us (999) but after being on hold for an hour he had to move on to other patients.
    I apologise for the wait and try to explain that we are literally swamped with emergency calls and at breaking point.
    She interrupts me to say:
    “No need to apologise, you’re doing too much already.”

    She consoles me.
    For **** sake!


    I suggest an ambulance to take her mum to hospital.
    I do tell her though that it will take time and I’m not sure they’ll be able to take her to Lodi hospital where her husband is.

    She stops me
    Her voice is calm yet decisive.
    I have the feeling I should prepare for an argument. I’m tired and selfishly I don’t feel like talking to anyone anymore. I’m sick of hearing the same stories, the same suffering and the same pain.
    I then think about the fact that in an hour my shift will be over and again, selfishly I see myself in bed asleep.

    However, Lucia gives me a life lesson that here, two days later, is still imprinted in my mind and heart.
    Lucia tells me she doesn’t want her mother taken to hospital.
    She explains that she’s already lost a brother without being able to say goodbye or go to his funeral and she hasn’t seen her husband for 10 days.
    She doesn’t want her mother to die in hospital.
    And adds, “I know perfectly well that you are barely able to care for young patients and I know well that if I send my mother to hospital she’ll be left to die because you don’t have time to treat her.”

    She says this without bitterness but with such awareness that it chills me to the bone.
    I remain silent because I know she’s absolutely right, but I can’t actually tell her this is the case.
    She understand my silence and continues:
    “I just need someone to tell me I’m doing the right thing and that I can let her die with dignity at home and without suffering.”

    I’ll finish now.
    I’ll not add anything.
    Just to say that Lucia’s mother passed away in her home an hour later.

    Maybe one day I’ll go to Lucia’s house and hug her and tell her she did the right thing.
    Because if I was a father I’d want a daughter like her.

    Lucia is just one of many.
    You have no idea the tsunami of sickness, suffering and pain this pandemic is creating.
    And don’t for a minute think this can only happen to others and not you.

    Therefore, I beg you to stay at home. We are on the verge of collapse.
    We no longer have hospital beds even for the young.
    Us health workers are getting sick and the epidemic is widening.

    Lodi and Codgono are small towns.
    Today, you’ve seen photos of the trucks taking away coffins in Bergamo.
    Do you know how many people live in Milan?
    Their hospitals are already full of patients.
    But none of these patients are from Milan.
    Guess where they’re from!

    Do the maths.
    Even though you’re not mathematicians.

    If this pandemic seriously spreads to Milan, Bergamo will seem like a walk in the park.
    I regret not being in China where everything can be closed.
    Because this is what is needed.

    So, I beg you.
    Those of you who are healthy, take a step back.
    You could be carrying Covid-19 and unknowingly be infecting everything and everyone by leaving the house.

    We’re not asking much.
    Just stay at home.
    Please.

    We are not ****ing giving up but give us a hand and play your part.

    Paolo Baldini (118 Operator)
    SOREU pianura Lombardi


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Judging by the last few pages I get the impression that this whole virus thing might blow over before the summer......
    Between existing drugs (used for other conditions) + an overestimate as to how many might die, I think this whole business "might have been" blown out of all proportion ?

    The UK & Ireland are not Italy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,343 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    pH wrote: »
    Around West Dublin this morning, people out in force in the nice weather, chemists have locked doors, and a few shops seems closed, but many people out in force, walking with kids, buying coffee etc. Many elderly people too (though to be fair mainly walking alone). Busses reasonably empty but this wasn't rush hour by any means.

    I would not be surprised if this level of 'social distancing' isn't enough to halt the outbreak.
    These so called "social distancing" measures in supermarkets will have no effect whatsoever in preventing the spread of infection. You can't expect people to stay completely locked up for the next three months. It is abnormal and could lead to huge rises in cases of domestic violence and admissions to psychiatric units.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,997 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Have to be very very careful with rushing to produce and administer these kind of drugs. Not too hard to imagine a kickback from this in a few years time.

    I think the UK drug is already used for other respiratory illnesses.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,114 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Is there a bit of a head cold going around too?

    I am sneezing, blowing the nose and am tired. I have noticed my coworkers have similar symptoms. Nobody is coughing though

    Started for me too yesterday, expected to be worse today but very very mild. Still doesn't stop me being paranoid


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Families walking together is not so much an issue, even four or five people : it's the need to keep away from 'other' families.

    I think this is the wrong attitude. Everyone should be assuming they're a carrier, symptoms or not. If you knew you had the virus would you distance yourself from the rest of your family? a: Yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    If I remember correctly she had a fine set of lungs on her.

    Yeh, there was a big writeup on it. Page 3 if I recall..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,433 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Kivaro wrote: »
    It is obvious that many people in Ireland do no understand the concept of social distancing, and it is evident all over the country.
    An "official" enforced lock-down is the only alternative since a large number of people are not listening to best practices ............. or they just don't care.

    Not just Ireland. When Italy closed schools it just saw a rush of people to restaurants/bars/beaches.

    They started paying for it 2 weeks later.

    Our full lock-down is coming, not sure when but its coming.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    pH wrote: »
    "Wolfgang Wodarg says:
    The corona hype is not based on any extraordinary public health danger. However, it causes considerable damage to our freedom and personal rights through frivolous and unjustified quarantine measures and restrictions. The images in the media are frightening and the traffic in China's cities seems to be regulated by the clinical thermometer.
    Evidence-based epidemiological assessment is drowning in the mainstream of fear mongers in labs, media, and ministries."

    And this is the problem that someone like Boris Johnson (and Trump) had in the last few weeks. These points of view are out there, from serious people with actual credentials in virology and epidemics.

    The world was a very difference place 30 days ago:
    "Did the US overreact to the outbreak" (18 Feb)
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051011/science-vs-politics-did-us-overreact-coronavirus-outbreak-china

    Angela Rasmussen, a virologist who serves on the faculty at the Center for Infection and Immunity at Columbia University’s school of public health.

    Rolling Stone: You’ve argued that “containment is no longer possible” with coronavirus and “it’s now time to shift to mitigation.” How should that change our strategy and tactics in dealing with this outbreak?

    Angela Rasmussen: We need to focus on trying to minimize the spread. And that means two things. First of all: making sure that our health care systems are prepared. It also means educating the public about what coronavirus in their community means, how to protect themselves, how to minimize their exposure risks — and also not to panic and overwhelm their health care systems, which is my biggest concern.


    Rolling Stone (March 2nd)
    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/containment-failed-coronavirus-spreading-america-960309/

    I could go on and keep linking these articles and quoting experts, but I won't. And this is why we need to give people like Boris Johnson and (dare I say it) even Trump some slack.
    Oul Wolfie is a bit of a crank and really more obsessed with personal liberties. He may be right but he has been banging the same drum on new viruses for quite a long time and the undue influence of pharmaceutical companies on governments on vaccines. Another claim to fame was supervising Gert Postel at university, a fraudster, who posed as a doctor and was eventually imprisoned.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Judging by the last few pages I get the impression that this whole virus thing might blow over before the summer......
    Between existing drugs (used for other conditions) + an overestimate as to how many might die, I think this whole business "might have been" blown out of all proportion ?

    The UK & Ireland are not Italy.

    To quote an expert, this isn't a blizzard it's the start of a cold winter.
    It's not going to blow over quickly, I'm hoping we have an advantage here on the island if we get very serious very quickly.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭ThePopehimself


    pH wrote: »

    Ah poor Trev, seems like a good bloke :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,444 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    When he landed at Logan in Boston, he was asked zero questions and wasn't even scanned for fever.
    If he's an American citizen they can't refuse him entry anyway.
    So what would the fever test actually accomplish?
    It would just be informational and they probably want someone else to shoulder the cost.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    otnomart wrote: »
    The Robert Koch daily report for Germany can be downloaded from this page in English.
    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Gesamt.html

    From the latest:
    "Among these cases, 4,605 are male (56%) and 3,568 female (44%).

    The age range is from 0 to 96 years, including 67 children under the age of 5, 199 children aged 5 to 14 years, 6,557 persons aged 15 to 59 years and 1,337 persons 60 years and older(see Figure 2). The age of 38 notified cases is unknown.The median age is 47 years"
    Based on this, I guess that they are not reporting deaths in case of comorbidities, and that they are only reporting a "death by coronavirus" only if the person had no other health condition.

    The difference between Italy and Germany can easily be explained by the age of those who caught it.

    In Italy close to 3000 have died, the vast majority over 70. Assuming a mortality rate of 10%, in reality something like 30,000 Italians over 70 have likely caught it.

    In Germany 1337 over 60 have caught it. Assuming 1000 are those over 70, then this is much lower than Italy, even allowing for those who haven't been tested for it.

    Germany has done a far better job of isolating its elderly. There are other reasons too. Italians would likely have more regular extended family gatherings for dinner and the like. Possibly more smokers too. The Italians don't even bother treating most elderly now in Italy, whereas the Germans aren't that overwhelmed.

    There's crucial lessons here for us. We definitely want to follow the German model.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    There's crucial lessons here for us. We definitely want to follow the German model.
    Reporting deaths differently?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    dublin99 wrote: »
    This is not scaremongering. This is a fact. A second dog, a two year old German Shepherd has tested positive. Dod owners should be aware of it!

    Professor Malik Peiris, a leading public health virologist at the University of Hong Kong:
    “It is very likely that the two positive cases [in Hong Kong] are examples of human to dog transmission”

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3075993/coronavirus-hong-kong-confirms-second-dog

    2 cases of suspected human to dog transmission globally. Both dogs were on the lower end of infection and showed zero symptoms.

    One of which was elderly and died of unknown causes after it had twice tested negative and been released from quarantine.

    If you can provide a bit more scientific evidence to support your 'dogs can get it ...!!!....One died...!!!' initial post then I will accept that people need to be made aware.

    Until such time I will say - you are scaremongering.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    froog wrote: »
    also when googling that guy, he is massive critic of the global response to H1N1 (and which most people actually do agree the world went completely overboard on a disease less harmful than the regular flu). so you can see why he's skeptical of this one.

    but he's being willfully ignorant of certain facts, and perhaps supported by his own country's figures which do not match up at all with the rest of the world.

    Maybe the Japanese are just more hygienic and respectful of rules? Much harder for a virus to spread in a culture where everyone always maintains distance, no hand shaking, no kissing on cheeks, mask wearing as standard when sick, and people respecting official guidelines.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    chicorytip wrote: »
    These so called "social distancing" measures in supermarkets will have no effect whatsoever in preventing the spread of infection. You can't expect people to stay completely locked up for the next three months. It is abnormal and could lead to huge rises in cases of domestic violence and admissions to psychiatric units.

    Have you applied to the HSE yet? You really should - hse.ie/oncall!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    Mwengwe wrote: »
    I think this is the wrong attitude. Everyone should be assuming they're a carrier, symptoms or not. If you knew you had the virus would you distance yourself from the rest of your family? a: Yes.

    You must also look after you mental health. You cannot stay locked inside for 3+ months, people need to go outside for fresh air and small things


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    To quote an expert, this isn't a blizzard it's the start of a cold winter.
    It's not going to blow over quickly, I'm hoping we have an advantage here on the island if we get very serious very quickly.

    Actually in this instance we are not an island in relation to flights & ferries between Britain & Ireland being able to carry on regardless, so the virus can continue to transmit between the two islands.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Reporting deaths differently?

    Evidence? Proof? Source?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭Sawduck


    Just saw a guy on ground near my house here in thurles, not sure if he fainted or had a fit but it has frightened the life out of me, he's seems OK now but looks shaken, hope it's nothing to serious


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    froog wrote: »
    he seems like a smart guy. but how do you explain the massive sudden requirement for ICU and ventilation equipment? if this was nothing out of the ordinary this would not be the case. health systems would not be overloaded like we saw in wuhan, like we are seeing in Italy and Spain. it just doesn't make sense.

    maybe someone can explain his argument better to me though, i'm not sure I fully grasp his logic.

    He's talking bollocks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Mwengwe wrote: »
    I think this is the wrong attitude. Everyone should be assuming they're a carrier, symptoms or not. If you knew you had the virus would you distance yourself from the rest of your family? a: Yes.

    There is no way that people can distance themselves from children . Families with young children will have to care for them . And take them out for fresh air when they can . Its not possible to distance yourself if you have kids or indeed anyone depending on you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    77 cases reported in NI, which would be an increase of 9 since yesterday.

    That's not bad and far less than the 30% increase we are hoping to avoid down here. Depends how prevalent testing is up there though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Mwengwe wrote: »
    I think this is the wrong attitude. Everyone should be assuming they're a carrier, symptoms or not. If you knew you had the virus would you distance yourself from the rest of your family? a: Yes.

    Social distancing within the normal family home would be a near impossibility (i.e. people sharing bedrooms etc), not unless one family member had tested positive for the virus.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Achasanai


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    There is no way that people can distance themselves from children . Families with young children will have to care for them . And take them out for fresh air when they can . Its not possible to distance yourself if you have kids or indeed anyone depending on you


    Not just people with kids. If you live in a 1 bed apartment with somebody, it's impossible to self-isolate (most 1 beds only have the one bathroom).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,824 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Mwengwe wrote: »
    I think this is the wrong attitude. Everyone should be assuming they're a carrier, symptoms or not. If you knew you had the virus would you distance yourself from the rest of your family? a: Yes.

    If someone in my family catches it, we all can catch it as far as I'm concerned.

    I certainly won't be 'socially distancing' myself from my wife and kids - what weird ideas some people have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭dublin99


    Has anyone taking ARDs for high blood pressure been advised to stop or switch to another anti-hypertensive medication?

    There was a paper in Lancet on this subject but this paper from Australia explains the possible issues quite well:

    "Leading experts warn that ARBs may amplify COVID-19 severity in patients"

    https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/ace-inhibitors-arbs-and-covid-19-what-gps-need-to

    I know a Dublin cardiologist has stopped taking his meds (under this category) and advised some patients to do so as well. Obviously one would need to consult his GP and weigh up the relative risks of switching/stopping meds.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    If someone in my family catches it, we all can catch it as far as I'm concerned.

    I certainly won't be 'socially distancing' myself from my wife and kids - what weird ideas some people have.

    Well then you will all have to socially isolate including not going out for a couple of weeks. Unless you want to spread it to the community including elderly people?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement