Social distancing Megathread

trapp · 15-03-2020 2:30pm #1

This needs to be discussed as a separate issue from the virus itself.

Of course the measures being taken are being implemented to save lives, prevent the health system from collapsing under the strain, to protect the vulnerable and at risk.

These measures are needed and I'm not in anyway against them.

But we can't just see everything in black and white. We could if there was an end in sight in a matter of weeks or even months but there isn't.

How long before the effects of isolation become another grave issue along with the virus?

Everyone is clear on the health effects of loneliness. Everyone is clear on the effects of unemployment on physical and mental health. Many are going to be effectively unemployed for a long period of time and may remain so after the crisis.

How will this isolation affect anyone with depression, suicidal tendencies, mental health difficulties?

How will this isolation affect people confined to home and living in dysfunctional families with problems of abuse, drugs and alcohol abuse?

How will this affect the most disadvantaged children in our society with no escape to school and no education for a prolonged period of time?

What will the rates of domestic abuse, suicides etc be if social isolation is implemented over a prolonged period?

I repeat, I support the measures being implemented to save lives. The experts are doing their best in an evolving situation where everything is new.

This can be done for weeks without doubt, but is it tenable for months?

I repeat, I don't know but it needs to be discussed.

Mental Health and suicide, anxiety etc were all major issues and thinking about suicide major killers up to a couple of weeks ago.

I know this virus has the potential to kill many more people than suicide but the long term effects of social isolation need to be discussed.

Idbatterim · 15-03-2020 2:32pm

the first week or two its a bit of a novelty and probably easy to limit contact. Like you say, how long will that go on? if they keep pubs, clubs , resteraunts, cafe's closed etc, its one thing. But if they were allowed open, I think you would see discipline fading fast, certainly with younger people...

Inquitus · 15-03-2020 2:34pm

trapp wrote: »

This needs to be discussed as a separate issue from the virus itself.

Of course the measures being taken are being implemented to save lives, prevent the health system from collapsing under the strain, to protect the vulnerable and at risk.

These measures are needed and I'm not in anyway against them.

But we can't just see everything in black and white. We could if there was an end in sight in a matter of weeks or even months but there isn't.

How long before the effects of isolation become another grave issue along with the virus?

Everyone is clear on the health effects of loneliness. Everyone is clear on the effects of unemployment on physical and mental health. Many are going to be effectively unemployed for a long period of time and may remain so after the crisis.

How will this isolation affect anyone with depression, suicidal tendencies, mental health difficulties?

How will this isolation affect people confined to home and living in dysfunctional families with problems of abuse, drugs and alcohol abuse?

How will this affect the most disadvantaged children in our society with no escape to school and no education for a prolonged period of time?

What will the rates of domestic abuse, suicides etc be if social isolation is implemented over a prolonged period?

I repeat, I support the measures being implemented to save lives. The experts are doing their best in an evolving situation where everything is new.

This can be done for weeks without doubt, but is it tenable for months?

I repeat, I don't know but it needs to be discussed.

Mental Health and suicide, anxiety etc were all major issues and thinking about suicide major killers up to a couple of weeks ago.

I know this virus has the potential to kill many more people than suicide but the long term effects of social isolation need to be discussed.

You don't need to isolate yourself completely, you can meet up in a Forest, a Park, for a walk along the beach. We just need to frame social contact differently for the next while, get outside, avoid the Pubs and Restaurants etc. Keep your distance.

trapp · 15-03-2020 2:34pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

the first week or two its a bit of a novelty and probably easy to limit contact. Like you say, how long will that go on? if they keep pubs, clubs , resteraunts, cafe's closed etc, its one thing. But if they were allowed open, I think you would see discipline fading fast, certainly with younger people...

Exactly everyone is reading books, cleaning the house etc.

It's the best option available at the moment, no doubt.

But long term how grave could the effects be on the vulnerable?

Logan Roy · 15-03-2020 2:34pm

Social distancing and social isolation are two completely different things. Besides with technology etc it’s really not that difficult to keep in touch with people these days. We’ll be fine.

Quantum Erasure · 15-03-2020 2:36pm

...about a mile?

trapp · 15-03-2020 2:36pm

Inquitus wrote: »

You don't need to isolate yourself completely, you can meet up in a Forest, a Park, for a walk along the beach. We just need to frame social contact differently for the next while, get outside, avoid the Pubs and Restaurants etc. Keep your distance.

But for how long is this tenable?

riffmongous · 15-03-2020 2:38pm

Inquitus wrote: »

You don't need to isolate yourself completely, you can meet up in a Forest, a Park, for a walk along the beach. We just need to frame social contact differently for the next while, get outside, avoid the Pubs and Restaurants etc. Keep your distance.

Depends though, actually Austria has gone far enough to ban the above more or less, you're only allowed to walk with people you live with. Mental imo, and harsh on those of us living alone

Inquitus · 15-03-2020 2:39pm

trapp wrote: »

But for how long is this tenable?

It's tenable for as long as it needs to be, usually you meet someone for a pint in Gibney's, now instead take a walk from Malahide to Portmarnock and back instead, adjust behaviours but still keep up face to face contact.

Dodge · 15-03-2020 2:39pm

trapp wrote: »

But for how long is this tenable?

Literally nobody can give you an answer. Just do your best to keep your own head straight and if enough of us do, we’ll be OK

Fann Linn · 15-03-2020 2:39pm

I wouldn't be a pub drinker so that won't affect me either way but enjoy going to gaa matches so that will be a downer.
I've a few books out from the library, plenty of magazines on my RB digital app and the wife is currently knitting away, happy as Larry.

Heading out now for a cycle to get some air and get away from boards for a few hours.
Enjoy.

biko · 15-03-2020 2:39pm

Many boardsies have been at it for years..

TheAnalyst_ · 15-03-2020 2:41pm

Inquitus wrote: »

It's tenable for as long as it needs to be, usually you meet someone for a pint in Gibney's, now instead take a walk from Malahide to Portmarnock and back instead, adjust behaviours but still keep up face to face contact.

That’s not true. People will not tolerate economic devastation and indefinitely putting their lives on hold. It won’t take too long before deaths become acceptable.

Duke of Url · 15-03-2020 2:42pm

biko wrote: »

Many boardsies have been at it for years..

Isn’t that a requirement of becoming a Mod?

BrianBoru00 · 15-03-2020 2:43pm

Logan Roy wrote: »

Social distancing and social isolation are two completely different things. Besides with technology etc it’s really not that difficult to keep in touch with people these days. We’ll be fine.

There's a difference between video link and phone calls and in person contact .
Of course we ll "be fine" ...but for how long ?
OP has a valid point and if this goes on for four months there will be a massive spike in domestic violence . Loneliness will increase and so will suicide.

trapp · 15-03-2020 2:45pm

Inquitus wrote: »

It's tenable for as long as it needs to be, usually you meet someone for a pint in Gibney's, now instead take a walk from Malahide to Portmarnock and back instead, adjust behaviours but still keep up face to face contact.

That's not what I'm talking about though.

What about those with mental health difficulties which will become pronounced with no escape through work or hobbies?

What about the 100s of young men, already a high risk group for suicide, left effectively idle and unemployed for potentially months?

What about rural men who's only social contact might be a trip to the pub or the GAA match and who might not have family?

I repeat, these measures are not being criticised, I'm just worried how long they're tenable for vulnerable people and remember mental health issues are often hidden so the vulnerable may not even be known.

rossie1977 · 15-03-2020 2:50pm

trapp wrote: »

But for how long is this tenable?

Next phase is closing bars/restaurants completely or limiting hours between 6am and 6pm

Next phase after that is closing everything but food stores and pharmacies and telling everyone to stay home unless its essential

Next phase after that is to force everyone to stay home. People only allowed out once a week to do emergency shopping for a maybe one hour but would need written request.

Final phase is nobody is allowed out on the street, some places bolted shut to stop people leaving. Army bring food to you

Does anyone want the country to enter final phase?

Stark · 15-03-2020 2:51pm

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

That’s not true. People will not tolerate economic devastation and indefinitely putting their lives on hold. It won’t take too long before deaths become acceptable.

I was thinking this. Before vaccines we accepted obscene numbers of childhood deaths as "just a way of life". If the crisis drags on long enough, the increase in death rate will eventually become normalised.

Del2005 · 15-03-2020 2:53pm

A lot of kids are feed in DEIS schools. How will people who rely on school to feed their children survive? Especially since most are probably working jobs that are shut down.

Andrew00 · 15-03-2020 2:55pm

Watch TV, sleep, go for a walk

I love self isolation

otnomart · 15-03-2020 2:55pm

Logan Roy wrote: »

Social distancing and social isolation are two completely different things. Besides with technology etc it’s really not that difficult to keep in touch with people these days. We’ll be fine.

This.
and Governments need to put in place now mental health helpline facilities available both online and over the phone.

trapp · 15-03-2020 2:57pm

Del2005 wrote: »

A lot of kids are feed in DEIS schools. How will people who rely on school to feed their children survive? Especially since most are probably working jobs that are shut down.

We're in dangerous times.

The virus is the enemy but we can't view everything as simply to stop the virus forever.

Within social distancing there will have to be ways of opening back up society.

trapp · 15-03-2020 2:58pm

Andrew00 wrote: »

Watch TV, sleep, go for a walk

I love self isolation

You do.

But what about all the vulnerable groups mentioned in the post.

We could be walking into a huge mental health crisis too.

AulWan · 15-03-2020 3:06pm

I just read an article on RTE.ie that the UK are considering asking everyone over the age of 70 to self-isolate for four months.

RoryMac · 15-03-2020 3:11pm

AulWan wrote: »

I just read an article on RTE.ie that the UK are considering asking everyone over the age of 70 to self-isolate for four months.

That seems like a good idea once they have supports in place for the people in isolation, food deliveries, regular checkups to ensure they have everything they need and have ability to contact family etc.

Makes sense to me to isolate the most at risk groups rather than putting the whole population into isolation that could last the same amount of time

Idbatterim · 15-03-2020 3:22pm

RoryMac wrote: »

That seems like a good idea once they have supports in place for the people in isolation, food deliveries, regular checkups to ensure they have everything they need and have ability to contact family etc.

Makes sense to me to isolate the most at risk groups rather than putting the whole population into isolation that could last the same amount of time

yeah, if its the elderly who are far more likely to die from it. The damage shutting the country down will do... well, we will see the outcome most likely... they have the schools shut. now the kids are just interacting elsewhere...

Thelonious Monk · 15-03-2020 5:21pm

trapp wrote: »

That's not what I'm talking about though.

What about those with mental health difficulties which will become pronounced with no escape through work or hobbies?

What about the 100s of young men, already a high risk group for suicide, left effectively idle and unemployed for potentially months?

What about rural men who's only social contact might be a trip to the pub or the GAA match and who might not have family?

I repeat, these measures are not being criticised, I'm just worried how long they're tenable for vulnerable people and remember mental health issues are often hidden so the vulnerable may not even be known.

These people are going to have it rough, as are many people. But that's just how it is, not many options here. We'll get through it.

15-03-2020 9:45pm

Last time I was in a bar here, looking around, most people were in groups but chatting/typing on their phones.

This social distancing thingy has been going on for a while now.. it's just encouraging people to move a little further apart physically... can't see how that would be so difficult for many people these days.

Snow Garden · 16-03-2020 3:01pm

bucketybuck · 16-03-2020 3:07pm

Social distancing won't go on indefinitely because it doesn't need to, I would have thought all this was just part of the whole "flattening the curve" thing.

We don't need everybody to isolate until the virus goes away, because it isn't going away, we just need them out of harms way for a few weeks/months until society finds some equilibrium with the issue.

VinLieger · 16-03-2020 3:26pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah, if its the elderly who are far more likely to die from it. The damage shutting the country down will do... well, we will see the outcome most likely... they have the schools shut. now the kids are just interacting elsewhere...

The NHS is still going to be overwhelemed by caring for patients under 70 because the UK governmenyt arent closing anything, recommending canceling any events or doing any social distancing whatsoever

fryup · 16-03-2020 6:04pm

serious question - can we have sex?

Stark · 16-03-2020 6:08pm

fryup wrote: »

serious question - can we have sex?

Yes, with the correct equipment. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32826085760.html

loyatemu · 16-03-2020 6:22pm

it took the Chinese 2 months to bring it under control, which would take us up to May. Assuming all of Europe also gets it under control (yes, I'm looking at you Boris) perhaps we go back to a containment phase where we monitor people coming in and out of the country with restrictions on countries where outbreaks are still escalating.

Sleeper12 · 16-03-2020 6:23pm

trapp wrote:

How long before the effects of isolation become another grave issue along with the virus?

Prisoners can tolerate isolation for years and even decades. I think we can manage for a few months

Risteard81 · 16-03-2020 6:35pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Prisoners can tolerate isolation for years and even decades. I think we can manage for a few months

Actually all the evidence is that it is incredibly damaging to prisoners. Such torture of prisoners is abhorrent.

Harry Palmr · 16-03-2020 6:36pm

Most prisoners come out in worse psychological condition than they went in with. I'd not treat this too lightly and I will be going out as needed in an appropriate manner.

Sleeper12 · 16-03-2020 6:57pm

Risteard81 wrote:

Actually all the evidence is that it is incredibly damaging to prisoners. Such torture of prisoners is abhorrent.

There is a big difference in being locked in a 10 by 6 cell for 20 hours a day & having a house or apartment to roam around in. Go for a walk, run or cycle any time you want. Talk on the phone all day, Skype facetime. Prisoners don't get to do these things. One 6 minute phone call a day is all they get

growleaves · 16-03-2020 7:06pm

If the global economy were to be brought to an indefinite standstill, billions of people would die. No idea of the timeline.

Even a temporary lockdown could kill more people than the disease through suicides and other stresses.

growleaves · 16-03-2020 7:09pm

Even a temporary lockdown could kill more people than the disease through suicides and other stresses.

To be clear here, I'm talking about suicides resulting from job losses.

However isolation combined with the removal of distractions (sport, cinema, socialising) could lead to despair.

trapp · 16-03-2020 7:25pm

growleaves wrote: »

If the global economy were to be brought to an indefinite standstill, billions of people would die. No idea of the timeline.

Even a temporary lockdown could kill more people than the disease through suicides and other stresses.

Exactly.

We all know measures are needed but it can't be black and white forever.

The health risks of isolation, loneliness and unemployment are clear and grave.

Idbatterim · 16-03-2020 7:28pm

growleaves wrote: »

If the global economy were to be brought to an indefinite standstill, billions of people would die. No idea of the timeline.

Even a temporary lockdown could kill more people than the disease through suicides and other stresses.

how would billions die? :rolleyes:

growleaves · 16-03-2020 7:29pm

The health risks of isolation, loneliness and unemployment are clear and grave.

As I pointed out to a friend of mine, the period from St. Patrick's Day until the end of September is when people emerge from having stayed in all winter. If we spend that period indoors then you're effectively talking of around 1.5 years without going out much.

If the Army are going to barricade people indoors (I call this the 'North Korea with red lemonade' scenario) all summer then the lack of Vitamin D will lead to all kinds of illnesses. That's before you even get into depression and loneliness.

growleaves · 16-03-2020 7:31pm

how would billions die?

Is that a joke?

You can't just stop the global economy - when has that ever been done before? They'll die from starvation. The global population was only around 1 billion in 1800.

Littlehorny · 16-03-2020 7:41pm

Don't know how long isolating will be needed but the young fella up the road who has 4 of his mates call to his house every afternoon/evening is really starting to pee me off.

Never mind me, just being a grouchy oul f***er

16-03-2020 8:00pm

growleaves wrote: »

Is that a joke?

You can't just stop the global economy - when has that ever been done before? They'll die from starvation. The global population was only around 1 billion in 1800.

Yes, but you're proposing that the global economy could come to a standstill which is incredibly lacking in understanding of the forces at work here. Money. People will find a way.

Automation is already coming in for many industries, and this situation of ours will simply encourage those who advocate it, to expand it's reach to more areas. Add to that, there's still plenty of ways to operate factories, offices, etc without exposing large numbers of people to each other... and that's whether they actually care.

The Uk is following their herd immunity idea. Fine.. it probably won't work out the way they expect, but it does show that governments out there are willing to keep things running regardless of the risks involved. China has been restarting their economy for the last month, with their transport/infrastructure links already back up (bypassing wuhan's hub). I know quite a few people in China who have returned to their jobs.. they're simply employing more measures in limiting the risks.. costs more time, but some loss in efficiency is to be expected in such a situation, and that will improve as people gain a better handle on it all.

The point is that the global economy will continue ticking along.. There are heaps of initiatives, technological aspects, etc which can be employed..

FixdePitchmark · 16-03-2020 9:07pm

How is social distancing working in your workplace - if it is not possible, does that mean the work should stop ?

Not sure what the government are saying on this.

I've seen two people in a car together etc ?

How far does this have to go ?

p.s. - I do see another thread on this - maybe a double up ?

Rufeo · 16-03-2020 9:18pm

It works by creating a new forum on Boards.

FixdePitchmark · 16-03-2020 9:24pm

Rufeo wrote: »

It works by creating a new forum on Boards.

Great insight

Beasty · 16-03-2020 9:26pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

p.s. - I do see another thread on this - maybe a double up ?

Merged

beggars_bush · 16-03-2020 9:31pm

Del2005 wrote: »

A lot of kids are feed in DEIS schools. How will people who rely on school to feed their children survive? Especially since most are probably working jobs that are shut down.

maybe the parents stop spending money on other stuff that they don't need

Social distancing Megathread

Comments