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Closing Schools - What about working parents !!!

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Comments

  • #152
    skallywag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭skallywag


    I think a large issue at play here is that the normal 'leave the kids with granny and grandad' option, which is open to a lot of folk, cannot be used this time.


  • #153
    Toastytoes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭Toastytoes


    P2C wrote: »
    You are not a charity. Just do not pay. How do you intend to pay for your essentials if you are not paid. They are a business and some are quite manipulative in trying to force parents hands. There is no chance schools will be back before the 29th of March. Maybe after Easter. The government will have to bail out business and not the individuals

    Our crèche is quoting the force majeure, I’d assume they’re all going to do the same


  • #154
    skallywag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭skallywag


    P2C wrote: »
    There is no chance schools will be back before the 29th of March. Maybe after Easter. The government will have to bail out business and not the individuals

    I know it is hard to estimate a timeline, but I see no way whatsoever that schools will be back so soon.

    I think the best thing to do is take a look to Italy, we are just a few weeks behind them.


  • #155
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    skallywag wrote: »
    I think a large issue at play here is that the normal 'leave the kids with granny and grandad' option, which is open to a lot of folk, cannot be used this time.

    We mind our grandchildren 3 days a week
    They have been here all week . We will continue minding them as we all have no choice to be honest . I can’t think of any other solution and if they have it then its already too late . If they don’t have it already then I guess not being in school is at least a chance they won’t get it


  • #156
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Noddy Nangle wrote: »
    It’s all well and fine for teachers and the public sector but what about the Joe soaps with a regular job in the private sector. To say I’m worried is an understatement !!!

    Not really. I still have to go to work but my kids are at home. I wont get paid if I take 2 months off either and I run the risk of taking 19 home with me as I stand a good chance of interacting with an infected person before you do.

    So, how are we different? How is this any worse for you than I?


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  • #157
    skallywag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭skallywag


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    We mind our grandchildren 3 days a week
    They have been here all week . We will continue minding them as we all have no choice to be honest . I can’t think of any other solution and if they have it then its already too late . If they don’t have it already then I guess not being in school is at least a chance they won’t get it

    Very valid point, and I am in a similar situation myself.

    As much as it hurts I think I am going to take the hit and stay at home to look after my kids, rather than the usual sending them up the road to the grandparents. I know that is not feasible for all though.


  • #158
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Toastytoes wrote: »
    Our crèche is quoting the force majeure, I’d assume they’re all going to do the same

    That's 3 days for family emergencies only.

    You could take it, this would qualify but it's still only 3 days


  • #159
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jim Root wrote: »
    you will still get paid. what about freelance workers? zero contract hour workers?

    What about them? You want the terms and conditions of public sector employment, non the public sector!

    The civil service, Dublin fire brigade and Gardai have all had recruitment drive within the past 2 years. Why didn't you apply?

    As for freelance, they make direct profits from their work, not an annual salary. That's the path they chose.

    Why is it people want their perks and conditions but begrudge mine?


  • #160
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    cannotlogin wrote: »
    All of the following are possible options:-

    teachers,
    older secondary school students,
    third level students,
    rota between parents - 3 families together so that each parent can work 4 out of 5 days
    workers from the hospitality/retail sector who will have reduced hours
    People who work freelance or self employed who have reduced bookings/hours

    do you have any friends/family in those area?

    It's far from ideal but it's a worldwide risk at the moment so it calls for finding creative solutions. Those who have to go to work do, those who don't should support others etc

    Not possible. Anyone who would be minding the children would have to be garda vetted otherwise there could be doubt if there were to be suggestions of allegations by a child or a parent with a grudge.

    The other problem is liability. If a child gets hurt somehow then whoever is supervising will be held liable. Again, could be a child or parent with a grudge or a score to settle.


  • #161
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    khaldrogo wrote: »
    While getting paid and while looking after their own kids in their own house and not having to scramble to find alternate child care like the rest of us. My heart bleeds for them...

    But yet they are expected to bleed for the private sector.

    I don't know about all you, but when I was in school I knew teachers got paid during the summer, I knew they got paid during holidays. None of this was a secret. I could have studied harder and become a teacher but I CHOSE a different path. You chose your path and they chose theirs. Do you see teachers complaining about reduced mortgages for bank staff? Profit sharing and Christmas bonuses in corporate offices? No, because they are perks of that industry and that's that.


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  • #162
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Not possible. Anyone who would be minding the children would have to be garda vetted otherwise there could be doubt if there were to be suggestions of allegations by a child or a parent with a grudge.

    The other problem is liability. If a child gets hurt somehow then whoever is supervising will be held liable. Again, could be a child or parent with a grudge or a score to settle.

    So if someone is vetted they are automatically believed in the event of a complaint? That's not true.

    You also don't require vetting to mind your friends kids ffs!


  • #163
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    If it is being done on some sort of organised co-ordinated basis, it would require Garda vetting.
    It is not acceptable for unrelated people without vetting to have access to children.

    And the liability issue is HUGE. You could end up sued if a child falls.


  • #164
    worker bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭worker bee


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    School is not a babysitter!

    ... and no childcare.

    We don't treat school as a 'babysitter'. We value our children's education very much but we also have arranged our working lives around their school hours as much as possible so we can be home when they are so we can see them etc.

    no childcare? What's our childminder supposed to live on if we're not paying her?


  • #165
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,509 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    killbillvol2 wrote: »
    My problem is, and I'm out after this, that a group of health professionals allegedly sat in a room and stated that cases would double every two days without doing the maths past about day 3.

    Why would the maths change after day 3?:confused:

    They reckon an infected person typically infects >2 other people, why would this stop after the 3rd day? Even God kept going for 6 days.


  • #166
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    because after the third day the numbers don;t bear thinking about. I can hear ambulances outside my window right now.


  • #167
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    spurious wrote: »
    The 'myth' being referred to was not whether teachers would still be paid (and why shouldn't they since they will be working?), but whether or not teachers can be sacked. There is a large number of people out there think teachers can't be sacked. They are wrong.

    Please people, read the posts you are replying to.

    Give me an example where a teacher was sacked for something that wasn't an extreme circumstance, like assault or sexual assault?
    Come back to me when you find any example of any public servant who was ever sacked for anything bar that.


  • #168
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Iscreamkone wrote: »
    My children in junior and senior infants are not very tech savvy.
    How will their teachers follow the timetable and engage with students of this age?

    They won’t follow a timetable . In our school we prepared work with the children , the children have a mixture of books , work sheets and some online bits ready to go .


  • #169
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    because after the third day the numbers don;t bear thinking about. I can hear ambulances outside my window right now.

    :confused:

    Day 1 - two people
    Day 2 - four people
    Day 3 - eight people

    "After the third day" = 16 people or so? Sure, we're already past that......what are you smoking?


  • #170
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Obviously schools are bound to follow instructions issued by the department of education, but as for private enterprises like creches, does there government have any legal basis to compel them to close their doors?
    Like, unless there is some law which gives the government that power, then really it is just a request and a creche decides that they will stay open, can the government really do anythign about it?

    I am thinking that if they are compelled to close by law, then could the creches come after the government afterwards with a claim for the enforced loss of revenue by being forced to close?


  • #171
    1874
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭1874


    Jim Root wrote: »
    creches can't survive on air alone, it's not their fault they have to close, staff still need to be paid. there might not be a creche left by April if they don't get their fees.


    As far as I was told, at least some of the staff didnt get paid where my child goes to afterschool care and as its at the school I will be questioning if they have to pay rental as thats what they told me the last time there was a closure. I wont be paying in April if I dont get some kind of a refund as they dont need the full fees for a complete non attendance. I was told its unexpected but it this is far from unexpected, had the Govt copped on and done this 2 weeks earlier I would not have paid for the coming month.
    As far as I can tell, the business in question appears reluctant to have parents deal with each other. I was told no other parent complained, when I raised the query, suggesting I am an isolated nark, and everyone else is sympathetic and unconcerned.

    khaldrogo wrote: »
    I understand that but at the same time, if i'm not being paid if my job shuts down over this how can I afford to pay them???

    I already pay them when they close at xmas etc......paying them for nothing is starting to grate on me.

    I don't care what anyone says, the creches are rolling in it. They need to be made to cover their own costs when they are closed by choice around xmas etc.


    Exactly, the Govt needs to step in and ensure that costs/fees are refunded for this, this has been coming down the line for sometime, cant just suck up the costs and move on. I would not be expected to pay any service if it cannot be provided, nor could I charge for something and do nothing for it in return. I understand there will be some costs, but I find it hard to belive that many in childcare are getting paid for when they are not there, Id be more inclined to be ok with some payments if I knew that for sure but I think its highly unlikely.

    Toastytoes wrote: »
    Our crèche is quoting the force majeure, I’d assume they’re all going to do the same


    Force majuere is for employee circumstances, nothing to do with a creche taking payment for no service, its a bloody joke IMO,


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  • #172
    Toastytoes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭Toastytoes


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    That's 3 days for family emergencies only.

    You could take it, this would qualify but it's still only 3 days

    The crèche are referring to contractual force majeure not the employee one. Means they can close but still charge fees.


  • #173
    kerryjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    A double child benefit payment next month would be a great help, I see the EU are pumping billions in to the banks and they are supposed to dish it out; what help is that for working families.


  • #174
    Toastytoes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭Toastytoes


    Contractual force majuere is a completely different thing the the employee version.
    1874 wrote: »
    As far as I was told, at least some of the staff didnt get paid where my child goes to afterschool care and as its at the school I will be questioning if they have to pay rental as thats what they told me the last time there was a closure. I wont be paying in April if I dont get some kind of a refund as they dont need the full fees for a complete non attendance. I was told its unexpected but it this is far from unexpected, had the Govt copped on and done this 2 weeks earlier I would not have paid for the coming month.
    As far as I can tell, the business in question appears reluctant to have parents deal with each other. I was told no other parent complained, when I raised the query, suggesting I am an isolated nark, and everyone else is sympathetic and unconcerned.





    Exactly, the Govt needs to step in and ensure that costs/fees are refunded for this, this has been coming down the line for sometime, cant just suck up the costs and move on. I would not be expected to pay any service if it cannot be provided, nor could I charge for something and do nothing for it in return. I understand there will be some costs, but I find it hard to belive that many in childcare are getting paid for when they are not there, Id be more inclined to be ok with some payments if I knew that for sure but I think its highly unlikely.





    Force majuere is for employee circumstances, nothing to do with a creche taking payment for no service, its a bloody joke IMO,


  • #175
    Antares35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    I dont have kids yet though there is one cooking. I get that creches need to stay afloat but how can they justify charging full fees when they wont need a full cohort of staff?


  • #176
    salmocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,665 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Antares35 wrote: »
    I dont have kids yet though there is one cooking. I get that creches need to stay afloat but hoe can they justify charging full fees when they wont need a full cohort of staff?

    If the staff are being paid the only cost savings being shut are heating, lighting, food.


  • #177
    Antares35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    salmocab wrote: »
    If the staff are being paid the only cost savings being shut are heating, lighting, food.

    I guess. Seems odd that they are being paid when they wont be doing anything. Its not like they will be working from home. Also wouldnt be fair to stop paying staff either. Its a tough one but i dont think parents should have to foot the bill on this one.


  • #178
    salmocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,665 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Antares35 wrote: »
    I guess. Seems odd that they are being paid when they wont be doing anything. Its not like they will be working from home. Also wouldnt be fair to stop paying staff either. Its a tough one but i dont think parents should have to foot the bill on this one.

    No but nor should the staff


  • #179
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    salmocab wrote: »
    No but nor should the staff

    The government should be reimbursing the creche, who should in turn reimburse the parents.

    Though by the time that gets sorted the kids will be in college!


  • #180
    Treppen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,734 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Princess Calla wrote: »
    The government should be reimbursing the creche, who should in turn reimburse the parents.

    Though by the time that gets sorted the kids will be in college!

    I'd go the opposite way.
    Everyone get paid so everyone can get paid.
    I'm happy to keep paying the childcare once i know the staff will be fully paid (as they are willing to work). Only fair if I keep getting paid too though!


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  • #181
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,302 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    TheBoyConor wrote:
    Obviously schools are bound to follow instructions issued by the department of education, but as for private enterprises like creches, does there government have any legal basis to compel them to close their doors? Like, unless there is some law which gives the government that power, then really it is just a request and a creche decides that they will stay open, can the government really do anythign about it?


    Every gig in the county has been cancelled on Leo's say so. From the Three arena holding 15000 to small venues.

    Do you suppose these venues & likewise crèches will have functioning insurance if they open against a government warning /order?


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