Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

hurler on de ditch · 01-03-2020 11:26pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

It was still the first half tbh . Cahill strikes me as a manager who's gives lads and chance and if he feels there not up to par on the day you're off

So according to that ,he felt they were doing ok

hurler on de ditch · 01-03-2020 11:50pm

Motivator wrote: »

Two fellas who are 7 and 9 years younger than Moran. Good analysis from you.

Does that not tell you something ,how many times must you hear it , every dog has its day , and moran has had he's , regardless of the two lads I mentioned ,

hardybuck · 02-03-2020 12:08am

I wouldn't be too worried about how Kevin Moran is playing in the 1st March. Tony Browne used not to start togging out until around April. He's probably tapering his conditioning to be ready to unload in May and June.

However, in the absence of Brick, and in the absence of proper brawn in the forwards, I wonder if he'll end up there before the year is out...

Tramore84 · 02-03-2020 12:19am

Really enjoyed that performance today from the lads, no doubt we deserved to win it. Paudie M missed some rake of frees today, only downside.

Jjjjjjjjbarry · 02-03-2020 12:20am

Aussie’s first yellow: was that not Prunty who committed the foul?

Mastermcgrath · 02-03-2020 12:23am

Won the second half against the AI champions on their home turf with a man short. And I’m sure Cahill would rather see us hit 16 wides than not creating the chances at all, at least he knows what they need to work on.

deiseindublin · 02-03-2020 12:24am

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Aussie’s first yellow: was that not Prunty who committed the foul?

I thought the same but wasn't shown tonight.

Tiger Roll · 02-03-2020 12:24am

Mastermcgrath wrote:

Won the second half against the AI champions on their home turf with a man short. And Iâ€™m sure Cahill would rather see us hit 16 wides than not creating the chances at all, at least he knows what they need to work on.

Yes that's all correct but the standard of free taking today was very poor .

killbillvol2 · 02-03-2020 12:25am

Tramore84 wrote: »

Really enjoyed that performance today from the lads, no doubt we deserved to win it. Paudie M missed some rake of frees today, only downside.

It's a huge downside. We won't win a championship game without a reliable free taker.

Mastermcgrath · 02-03-2020 12:26am

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

Does that not tell you something ,how many times must you hear it , every dog has its day , and moran has had he's , regardless of the two lads I mentioned ,

You said those exact words about brick 3 years ago and he ended up winning an all star.

killbillvol2 · 02-03-2020 12:27am

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Aussie’s first yellow: was that not Prunty who committed the foul?

They showed it on TG4 at HT. It was Prunty so the first yellow was mistaken identity.

That said, he could have been given a straight red for the second foul.

Mastermcgrath · 02-03-2020 2:46am

killbillvol2 wrote: »

They showed it on TG4 at HT. It was Prunty so the first yellow was mistaken identity.

That said, he could have been given a straight red for the second foul.

Can they appeal it? I know its only the league etc but Aussie wont want another red card on his record if he has been wronged

windy shepard henderson · 02-03-2020 3:03am

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Can they appeal it? I know its only the league etc but Aussie wont want another red card on his record if he has been wronged

the o'l ccccccc should come in handy however i would say nothing about gleasons one as that could be upgraded to a red , moran did nothing he is far from a dirty player and should be downgraded to a yellow

Pogue eile · 02-03-2020 10:45am

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Aussie’s first yellow: was that not Prunty who committed the foul?

killbillvol2 wrote: »

They showed it on TG4 at HT. It was Prunty so the first yellow was mistaken identity.

That said, he could have been given a straight red for the second foul.

There is nothing to appeal, the first yellow was given for two fouls that Gleeson committed and the ref was playing advantage when Prunty committed the third foul. It was a little harsh but in no way appealable. The second was a straight red every day of the week and to appeal it would be foolish.

upthedeise16 · 02-03-2020 10:51am

Pogue eile wrote: »

There is nothing to appeal, the first yellow was given for two fouls that Gleeson committed and the ref was playing advantage when Prunty committed the third foul. It was a little harsh but in no way appealable. The second was a straight red every day of the week and to appeal it would be foolish.

There’s no suspension for 2 yellows so why would there even be an appeal

hurler on de ditch · 02-03-2020 11:01am

hardybuck wrote: »

I wouldn't be too worried about how Kevin Moran is playing in the 1st March. Tony Browne used not to start togging out until around April. He's probably tapering his conditioning to be ready to unload in May and June.

However, in the absence of Brick, and in the absence of proper brawn in the forwards, I wonder if he'll end up there before the year is out...

that in itself contributed to our own downfall in a way .if I remember right Jaime Nagle would be in the Jersey and then Tony would decide he's ready and the Jersey given back to him ..no coincidence that Niall mc Carthy was nominated for two all stars for his displays alone off Tony Browne , I find that you think that Moran will suddenly improve that much in the next few weeks and his opposition won't ,

upthedeise16 · 02-03-2020 11:09am

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

that in itself contributed to our own downfall in a way .if I remember right Jaime Nagle would be in the Jersey and then Tony would decide he's ready and the Jersey given back to him ..no coincidence that Niall mc Carthy was nominated for two all stars for his displays alone off Tony Browne , I find that you think that Moran will suddenly improve that much in the next few weeks and his opposition won't ,

Well Niall McCarthy played centre forward on Ken McGrath every year

Pogue eile · 02-03-2020 11:26am

upthedeise16 wrote: »

There’s no suspension for 2 yellows so why would there even be an appeal

Well firstly I was replying to the question of whether they could/should appeal, so I wan't for a second suggesting it.

And secondly if Gleeson was to be sent off later in the year, a strong possibility to be fair, then this red would be taken into account and any suspension would be doubled.

Rebelside · 02-03-2020 11:41am

killbillvol2 wrote: »

They showed it on TG4 at HT. It was Prunty so the first yellow was mistaken identity.

That said, he could have been given a straight red for the second foul.

They showed it at ht on TG4 & stated that Gleeson got the yellow for 2 whips at McGrath & that the ref was correct

hardybuck · 02-03-2020 12:05pm

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

that in itself contributed to our own downfall in a way .if I remember right Jaime Nagle would be in the Jersey and then Tony would decide he's ready and the Jersey given back to him ..no coincidence that Niall mc Carthy was nominated for two all stars for his displays alone off Tony Browne , I find that you think that Moran will suddenly improve that much in the next few weeks and his opposition won't ,

If I recall correctly, Tony Browne was an absolute warrior in those years. The 2010 Munster final stands out in memory, scoring the equaliser and playing a stormer in extra time.

You can't expect to train every player in your squad the same way. I think that's acknowledged in professional sports, as they have strength and conditioning teams who tend to remain in place for a number of years and don't get chopped and changed as much as managers do.

The problem you have in GAA is a new manager coming in every two years. No continuity of management teams and coaches, and the new manager making everyone do the same thing for fear of offering 'special treatment' to any individuals. This results in lads retiring before they hit 30.

killbillvol2 · 02-03-2020 12:13pm

Rebelside wrote: »

They showed it at ht on TG4 & stated that Gleeson got the yellow for 2 whips at McGrath & that the ref was correct

Didn't hear the second part of the discussion. Hard to get people to stay quiet in a bar in Spain for TG4!

In any case I wasn't defending him. As I said, the second incident could have easily been a straight red.

blueflame · 02-03-2020 12:31pm

I like the vast majority at the game yesterday thought Prunty had been booked (which in it self i thought was harsh because he completely went to play the ball) , but having watched a recording of the match it appears the Aussie got booked to a tap on the Tip Players ankle, which in the context of the amount of contact involved in any hurling match is ludicrous. That being said Aussies second tackle was reckless, needless, petulant and could in itself have been a red card. Unfortunately this tendency to pull reckless strokes has earned him a reputation with refs, and he is fast becoming a liability. There is absolutely no doubting his incredible ability but no team can afford to be walking this tight rope every game.

Moran I thought was very unfortunate as was Barrett, and if there is any justice both red cards and the attaching suspensions should be over turned.

On the game itself, I was really impressed with Waterford, particularly considering how short a time Cahill is in the job. I thought throughout the field everyone worked their socks off. particular mention for Barron who looked reborn, but we do continue to make some poor choices and if we can improve on these i believe we can compete with anyone. We created several goal chances yesterday in addition to the two we scored and that is a good sign. What I really like about Cahill is he is not making excuses and he is all the time looking for improvement. As he said today, we continue to give away too many scores with unforced errors and these have to be reduced.

For me yesterdays performance was just what the doctor order, winning in those conditions yesterday have resulted in the usual overhype ,but fighting as we did to the end says a lot of work done, a lot more work to do but certainly going in the right direction.

One final comment for me has to be for Stephen Bennett, this guy is a model for any kid, he worked his socks of, he combines attitude, skill and aggression in abundance. If tall the team showed this lads desire to win, we will not be far away come August.

hurler on de ditch · 02-03-2020 2:53pm

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Well Niall McCarthy played centre forward on Ken McGrath every year

Actually he didn't

whiteandblue · 02-03-2020 3:50pm

Yesterday was one of the more positive outlooks I had after a Waterford defeat. Playing a man down for 40 minutes, Waterford should have the match, but for missed opportunities.

Last year in championship, Waterford were also reduced to a man less against Tipp and fell apart but the games were heading in different directions. Last year, Waterford were really struggling, and the sending off of Conor Gleeson told in the last 25 minutes despite a revival before and after half-time but even if there hadn't been a sending off, I think Tipp would have won handy. Yesterday was totally different, Waterford were against a strong breeze and in a strong position before the sending off of Austin Gleeson and I think they would have went on to win the game had both teams had the same amount of players. (I won't comment on the other 2 sendings off and they were unjustified and they evened each other out)

On Gleeson's sending off, and having watched it back, he should not have received the first yellow as it was Prunty who had committed the foul but this is irrelevant. Any player that has been booked, from under 14 level to junior C level, whether unjustified or not, has to have the cop on that if they foul again, they could be in danger of getting sent off.
Austin Gleeson is a magnificent talent and this is not a slight at the man, but he should have been smart enough to stay out of trouble and not get an utterly pointless second yellow. The ball was going to be knocked down by D'arcy out of the sideline and there was no immediate danger, why even bother challenging when he clearly had no chance of winning that ball? If it was a goal chance and you are on a yellow, maybe commit the foul as a last resort but otherwise, keep your head and don't give the referee any excuse to send you off.
It also seems that the foul and hitting the head was deliberate as he looked at the opposition player before striking him and in my view, it should have been a straight red card. It's very disappointing as we would have seen Gleeson in his preferred position of centre-back and while he seemed rusty with his distribution, he needs time at centre-back to establish himself in that position if he is to play there come championship. Early on, he didn't seem to know whether to follow his man on puckouts or sit deep (which he did) and allowed Callanan an easy score. This is probably down to communication with his midfielders to drop deep and something they would learn from but the only thing we learned from the sending off is that Gleeson can be a liability if he cannot control his tackling. I hope he learns from it.

In terms of others, SOK hit a puckout over the sideline but in general, I would say they hit their target areas. His shot stopping was excellent and although he is under pressure from Nolan, I SOK showed his ability as a top shot stopper yesterday. McNulty and Prunty played well once again but Kieran Power was possibly played out of position and is more of a halfback than corner back. Conor Gleeson had his best game in some time and was excellent on John McGrath when he went centre back but had been good at midfield and him and Barron were on top there in the 1st half. Barron was back to his best and led by example in his work ethic and passing into the forwards with excellent ball played in. Fagan won ball and was unfortunate to have 2 wides in the 2nd half while Kearney looked dangerous when he got on the ball. Mahony had an off day from frees but I thought showed well in general play. Peter Hogan again typified the hard work we seen all over the pitch and got on ball around the middle third in the 2nd half. Dessie worked hard inside and got one great score but he was fighting a losing battle against 2 men inside in the 2nd half but he never gave up. Stephen Bennett was excellent throughout and worked his socks off while Montgomery got a great score and Callum Lyons played well when introduced.

Overall, as I mentioned with individual players, the workrate and fitness were the most pleasing aspects of yesterday and the refusal to give in which is a sharp contrast to 2019. We can start to see a pattern to our play which is to work the ball to midfield and get it in down the line or diagonal to our forwards with ball that favours them but Cahill and Bevans's major input has been the work ethic.

upthedeise16 · 02-03-2020 4:04pm

whiteandblue wrote: »

Yesterday was one of the more positive outlooks I had after a Waterford defeat. Playing a man down for 40 minutes, Waterford should have the match, but for missed opportunities.

Last year in championship, Waterford were also reduced to a man less against Tipp and fell apart but the games were heading in different directions. Last year, Waterford were really struggling, and the sending off of Conor Gleeson told in the last 25 minutes despite a revival before and after half-time but even if there hadn't been a sending off, I think Tipp would have won handy. Yesterday was totally different, Waterford were against a strong breeze and in a strong position before the sending off of Austin Gleeson and I think they would have went on to win the game had both teams had the same amount of players. (I won't comment on the other 2 sendings off and they were unjustified and they evened each other out)

On Gleeson's sending off, and having watched it back, he should not have received the first yellow as it was Prunty who had committed the foul but this is irrelevant. Any player that has been booked, from under 14 level to junior C level, whether unjustified or not, has to have the cop on that if they foul again, they could be in danger of getting sent off.
Austin Gleeson is a magnificent talent and this is not a slight at the man, but he should have been smart enough to stay out of trouble and not get an utterly pointless second yellow. The ball was going to be knocked down by D'arcy out of the sideline and there was no immediate danger, why even bother challenging when he clearly had no chance of winning that ball? If it was a goal chance and you are on a yellow, maybe commit the foul as a last resort but otherwise, keep your head and don't give the referee any excuse to send you off.
It also seems that the foul and hitting the head was deliberate as he looked at the opposition player before striking him and in my view, it should have been a straight red card. It's very disappointing as we would have seen Gleeson in his preferred position of centre-back and while he seemed rusty with his distribution, he needs time at centre-back to establish himself in that position if he is to play there come championship. Early on, he didn't seem to know whether to follow his man on puckouts or sit deep (which he did) and allowed Callanan an easy score. This is probably down to communication with his midfielders to drop deep and something they would learn from but the only thing we learned from the sending off is that Gleeson can be a liability if he cannot control his tackling. I hope he learns from it.

In terms of others, SOK hit a puckout over the sideline but in general, I would say they hit their target areas. His shot stopping was excellent and although he is under pressure from Nolan, I SOK showed his ability as a top shot stopper yesterday. McNulty and Prunty played well once again but Kieran Power was possibly played out of position and is more of a halfback than corner back. Conor Gleeson had his best game in some time and was excellent on John McGrath when he went centre back but had been good at midfield and him and Barron were on top there in the 1st half. Barron was back to his best and led by example in his work ethic and passing into the forwards with excellent ball played in. Fagan won ball and was unfortunate to have 2 wides in the 2nd half while Kearney looked dangerous when he got on the ball. Mahony had an off day from frees but I thought showed well in general play. Peter Hogan again typified the hard work we seen all over the pitch and got on ball around the middle third in the 2nd half. Dessie worked hard inside and got one great score but he was fighting a losing battle against 2 men inside in the 2nd half but he never gave up. Stephen Bennett was excellent throughout and worked his socks off while Montgomery got a great score and Callum Lyons played well when introduced.

Overall, as I mentioned with individual players, the workrate and fitness were the most pleasing aspects of yesterday and the refusal to give in which is a sharp contrast to 2019. We can start to see a pattern to our play which is to work the ball to midfield and get it in down the line or diagonal to our forwards with ball that favours them but Cahill and Bevans's major input has been the work ethic.

Austin Gleeson was lucky in 2017 to not miss the final after the helmet incident, it’s as if he gets rushes of blood to the head. If the only thing that comes out of yesterday is Austin Gleeson learning a lesson and not making that same silly mistake again come championship, it’s a positive!

TheScoringGoal · 02-03-2020 5:33pm

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Austin Gleeson was lucky in 2017 to not miss the final after the helmet incident, it’s as if he gets rushes of blood to the head. If the only thing that comes out of yesterday is Austin Gleeson learning a lesson and not making that same silly mistake again come championship, it’s a positive!

Am I correct in saying that yesterday was the first time he has ever been sent off for Waterford?

Mastermcgrath · 02-03-2020 10:33pm

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Austin Gleeson was lucky in 2017 to not miss the final after the helmet incident, it’s as if he gets rushes of blood to the head. If the only thing that comes out of yesterday is Austin Gleeson learning a lesson and not making that same silly mistake again come championship, it’s a positive!

It was shocking lack of discipline out of him yesterday given everyone knows how fussy referees are these days. Id say Cahill must be rightly p****d off with him. Interesting to see if Gleeson is in the team next week.

lim4ev · 03-03-2020 12:17am

Was really impressed with Waterford yesterday lads result didn't matter twas the performance am so looking forward to the Gaelic grounds Saturday night ( I know it's not yer happy hunting grounds of late) limerick will be expecting a huge match. I think ye have one of the best young managers in the game but he needs the players and I've been very impressed as I said already with ye. One thing though A Gleeson is he a liability for ye now? Great hurler and all that he is/was

Fred C Dobbs · 03-03-2020 11:44am

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that yesterday was the first time he has ever been sent off for Waterford?

You could be right but he walks a tight line between being aggressive and reckless.

Hasn't recaptured the majestic form of 2016 apart from some sporadic flashes of genius, although has been hampered with injuries. Hope to God he doesn't become one of those great but squandered talents.

Cahill has a reputation of preferring attitude over anything else so interesting to see what happens next.

blueflame · 03-03-2020 2:58pm

I could be wrong but i think it is his first time being sent off, but simple facts are he walks a tight line all the time and could or indeed should have been shown the line on at least three occasions previously in my memory. Maybe the fact that he had escaped up to this gave him a false sense of security and he might just learn from it.

I have no problem with lads playing on the edge, it often makes them the player they are, but Aussies indiscretions are generally stupid and childish and he has earned himself a reputation among referees. so they are now watching him like a hawk. His infamous helmet pulling incident was in an All Ireland Semi final in front of a dozen cameras two weeks after the TDB controversy was ludicrous, and he should have missed an All Ireland Final over it.

If he did not learn from his miracle escape that that day, then I don't know what has to happen for him to learn. Last Sunday proved to me that he has not yet learned his lesson.

Lets face it, Aussie has the potential to be by far the most influential player waterford have had over the last 6 decades, but he has equally the potential to be Waterford's greatest waste of talent ever. He has the opportunity to be remembered as a hero or a villain, but one thing is for sure, tHe ball is entirely in his court, but time is running out fast.

Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

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