School using point system for punishment

Wombatman · 25-02-2020 5:34pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Absolutely, for things as OP says, getting 10 points for the likes of having a pen end in their mouth, getting something from their bag, dropping something. I, and any reasonable person, would see this as a gross exaggeration and an abuse of the points system.
Since it is taking place on a sustained and repeated basis, it a very convincing argument could be made that it is malicious, victimizing and bullying behaviour on the part of an experienced professional teacher who really ought to know better and exercise greater self control than their students, all being effectively endorsed by the principal by their willingness to knowingly allowing it to continue despite being made plainly aware that it is having a negative impact on the student's state of mind and mental well being.

If i were a principal faced with these arguments across my desk, I would find it extremely challenging to mount a any sort of reasonably credible rebuttal.

You are really jumping to conclusions and then blowing those conclusions right out of proportion.

Might it be that little Jonny\Joanie is taking the piss and is fully deserving censure?

The school should be providing the parents with details on what led to the detention for sure. They have rightly requested a meeting. The rest of your post is just hysterical speculation.

School can be tough on kids sometimes. Hopefully this child can get back into the swing of things without any lasting damage. Escalating things as you do, with very little information, doesn't help anyone get to this point.

Ave Sodalis · 25-02-2020 5:38pm

Raisins wrote:

Points system seems sensible at a departmental conference but challenging parents will bring a end to it fairly quickly. Just let the teacher do his / her job - itâ€™s not a criminal summons - unless thereâ€™s multiple detentions or incidents I canâ€™t see how a parent can consider those demands reasonable. Btw Iâ€™m not a teacher.

To be entirely fair, in secondary school, I was a good student. I got continuous As and Bs. I was quiet as I have/had bad social anxiety and never spoke out of turn. I had to grow up pretty fast so I skipped what would normally come with teenage years. No teacher ever had a problem with me (in fact, my English teacher pushed really hard to get me into an advanced creative writing course for adults, but they refused as I was 13 at the time), except one. For some reason, she took a notion against me. She sat me up the front of the class, she was always nitpicking about stuff. One day I didn't have my homework. Believe or not, the dog actually tore it up as it was sitting on the sofa at home and he started zooming around the place. My mother wasn't home to get a note from, so I went in empty handed and I didn't want to annoy the babysitter. Straight away, I got detention. My mother rang to find out what the problem actually is, the teacher denied there even being a problem. The detention got reversed and the teacher was nice as pie to me after that.
It was a really bizarre experience. I believe that if my mother had not rang, the teacher would have continued to pick on me. If I had retaliated, it would have justified the teacher's actions. So whilst many student do deserve to get detention, it wouldn't surprise me to hear a teacher was abusing the points system too.

CrabRevolution · 25-02-2020 5:40pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

On the contrary, you know what? It will stand to them if they are ever in situations where one party, be it an employer or a competing opponent in some shere, is trying to get one over on them if they can get away with it. The will see that a well thought out rebuttal, backed up by a reasonable knowledge of rights and law, can challenge the opponent successfully and get a positive outcome.

Might be as good a days learning as they will ever have school if they were at that meeting and this was threshed out across the principal's desk.

It's not really teaching anything other than: "Don't be responsible or accountable for your own actions, and if you're ever called out on them, just get your mam to argue"

Effects · 25-02-2020 5:58pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Believe or not, the dog actually tore it up as it was sitting on the sofa at home and he started zooming around the place.

So why not just bring in the torn homework as proof. Even if it was true, you should have known the teacher wouldn't have believed it.

TheBoyConor · 25-02-2020 6:06pm

It's not really teaching anything other than: "Don't be responsible or accountable for your own actions, and if you're ever called out on them, just get your mam to argue

As for the idea of refusing to sit detention..... Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. If students don’t learn discipline now, what will they do when they get to the real world?! They can’t get mammy to fight their battles if they make it to third level, and they can’t use mammy to get them out of trouble in work. Resilience is seriously lacking in current generation, and they don’t like having to deal with the consequences of their actions.

Well I am working on the basis of the information the OP has given, and that is that the student is a good, well mannered student who is excelling academically. We take that at face value. No defence lawyer is ever going to paint their client in a bad light, they will keep reinforcing the positives and turn the good side out.
As I said before, I would think for the student to be involved in refuting the arguments being made by the school is an absolutely excellent real world lesson in resilience and not taking things lying down just because, you know "teacher says".

Saying that they should just take their medicine, even when it may be excessive and disproportionate, what does that teach a person? It teaches compliance, that they should just do things ordered of them because "authority". That they should just take things on the chin lying down, even when they don't agree with it and are opposed to it. Is that a good lesson to have in life?

Critical thinking, challenging others' arguments and creating and delivering well thought out and backed up counter arguments is an absolutely excellent skill, far more important than the aul modh coinniollach, or Pieg Sayers, and what better way to learn it than in this live, real world example. The mammy doesn't have to do it all. They student can also put across their own arguments as part of the discussions. In fact, I would encourage it.
And besides winning the dispute through reason and wits, from a more cute hurr perspective of looking at it there is also the possibility that asking the school to justify their actions and demonstrate to you that their penalties are proportionate and applied consistently, and generally challenging the school very strongly in a manner to which they not accustomed may frustrate and fatigue their process and burden their time and minds so much to the point that they may decide to just decide to drop it and appease you and write off the detentions and penalties for the sake of what it's worth to them.

Hopefully this child can get back into the swing of things without any lasting damage. Escalating things as you do, with very little information, doesn't help anyone get to this point.

That is a rich statement! The school here is dishing out penalties without any clear information even being given! Points and detention doled out without any transparency, no reasons or explanations given, and a reluctance to give information even when challenged for it. Would you be happy to receive and pay a random fine with no reason given as to why you were fined?

I could be quite confident, that faced with a solid challenge and be nearly compelled to explain and justify their actions to avoid looking absolutely spineless, the teacher that is handing out points willy nilly will be very slow to ever issue points again if they think that this sort of headache is what results from it.

ChippingSodbury · 25-02-2020 6:37pm

Raisins wrote: »

Why are you so shocked that the breakdown mightn’t be available? This is a school setting : there’s literally hundreds of students in most secondary schools with multiple incidents happening every class that might or might not necessitate a point depending on the context. If speaking while a teacher is speaking or distracting the class gets a point (I don’t know if it would), does the teacher then: stop teaching, correct behaviour, note the point and then separately add it to a master record with an explanation so that’s a available in the even a parent wants to challenge? If a teacher has to hand out points to 3/4/5 students what happens to the lesson if that’s the process on each occasion. Correcting a student alone kills momentum before you even get into that bureaucracy.

Points system seems sensible at a departmental conference but challenging parents will bring a end to it fairly quickly. Just let the teacher do his / her job - it’s not a criminal summons - unless there’s multiple detentions or incidents I can’t see how a parent can consider those demands reasonable. Btw I’m not a teacher.

As far as I know, it works fairly well in my kid's school and there are close to 1,000 students (I'm only going on what my kid tells me and what I hear from other parents). If there's an issue, the homework journal is requested and it's left on the teacher's desk until the end of class when the "bureaucracy" is handled which takes approx. 2 minutes to note in the homework journal and the demerits system. It doesn't stop the flow of the class no more than the bad behaviour.

Kids, like ourselves, are human beings and more often than not, if they're treated as young adults, they'll respond as young adults. An objective list of points/ issues is fairly black and white and difficult for a student to argue with. As stated above by Sullivio, a talk with the parent is the way to defuse any situation: a list can only help back up a teacher's concerns in a discussion such as that.

gordongekko · 25-02-2020 7:03pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Agreed, teacher, principal, parents and child all at a meeting out in the open and go through all the issues like grown ups.

:D

25-02-2020 7:19pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That is all well and good as long as the parents and student consented to it and maintain their consent. However, a student could, depending on circumstance, withdraw that consent and wish to walk out of detention.
if they chose to walk out of detention the school or the staff have absolutely no legal right nor power to restrain, restrict the student from leaving, nor apprehend, or force them to return if they have left. The school policy is an agreement and it only has effect as long as the parties maintain their consent to the agreement. The law of the land would supercede any such agreement anyway.

Realistically, if a student walked out of detention, what could the school staff actually do about it? Lock the doors? physically restrain the student? send someone to apprehend them and return them to the school? Expel them despite the student excelling academically?
Obviously, any of those measures would be totally extreme and over the top.
The school have no legal power to detain anyone nor force anyone to do anything. It is all just subject to school, parent and student maintaining a mutual agreement on the policy.

Real world, a secondary school student could get up and walk out of detention any moment and walk out the front door. And there would be nothing teachers nor principal could do about it only look out the window at him. Quite frankly, what are they going to do about it?

This is total and utter sh1t stirring. Teacher need to have control over students, it’s getting harder and harder from them to do so but it’s attitudes like yours that are making things even more difficult.

Any child that walks out of determinism is a sh1t and if a parent Pulls the crap you suggest they are the type that teachers think are absolute clowns. Also walking out of detention will get you suspended etc you are very naive. It does kids absolutely no favours either in the long run having their parents coming in sorting out he crap they get themselves involved in.

Also why is this in the Galway city forum.

rob316 · 25-02-2020 7:23pm

It's detention, you sit there do your homework and head home it's not worth getting worked up over. We all done it did us no harm.

Walking out on detention, that's a fine way to teach respect to authority. Sigh

Points effecting the mental well being of the child? I actually dispare when I think of this generation.

Wombatman · 25-02-2020 7:27pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I could be quite confident, that faced with a solid challenge and be nearly compelled to explain and justify their actions to avoid looking absolutely spineless, the teacher that is handing out points willy nilly will be very slow to ever issue points again if they think that this sort of headache is what results from it.

Unfortunately your aggressive approach will give the teachers who are justified in handing out cards the same headache. If they are very slow to issue deserved points, as you say, order will break down in the school, which benefits nobody.

I said the parents were right to seek a meeting to soft out the facts. Until then everybody should cool their jets.

?Cee?view · 25-02-2020 7:58pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Well I am working on the basis of the information the OP has given, and that is that the student is a good, well mannered student who is excelling academically. We take that at face value. No defence lawyer is ever going to paint their client in a bad light, they will keep reinforcing the positives and turn the good side out.
As I said before, I would think for the student to be involved in refuting the arguments being made by the school is an absolutely excellent real world lesson in resilience and not taking things lying down just because, you know "teacher says".

Saying that they should just take their medicine, even when it may be excessive and disproportionate, what does that teach a person? It teaches compliance, that they should just do things ordered of them because "authority". That they should just take things on the chin lying down, even when they don't agree with it and are opposed to it. Is that a good lesson to have in life?

Critical thinking, challenging others' arguments and creating and delivering well thought out and backed up counter arguments is an absolutely excellent skill, far more important than the aul modh coinniollach, or Pieg Sayers, and what better way to learn it than in this live, real world example. The mammy doesn't have to do it all. They student can also put across their own arguments as part of the discussions. In fact, I would encourage it.
And besides winning the dispute through reason and wits, from a more cute hurr perspective of looking at it there is also the possibility that asking the school to justify their actions and demonstrate to you that their penalties are proportionate and applied consistently, and generally challenging the school very strongly in a manner to which they not accustomed may frustrate and fatigue their process and burden their time and minds so much to the point that they may decide to just decide to drop it and appease you and write off the detentions and penalties for the sake of what it's worth to them.

That is a rich statement! The school here is dishing out penalties without any clear information even being given! Points and detention doled out without any transparency, no reasons or explanations given, and a reluctance to give information even when challenged for it. Would you be happy to receive and pay a random fine with no reason given as to why you were fined?

I could be quite confident, that faced with a solid challenge and be nearly compelled to explain and justify their actions to avoid looking absolutely spineless, the teacher that is handing out points willy nilly will be very slow to ever issue points again if they think that this sort of headache is what results from it.

What’s a “defence lawyer” and an adversarial approach going to add to this situation that will benefit the parents, the teachers or the child.

Any half decent lawyer (defence or otherwise), will tell you to pick your arguments and think of the wider picture, not just stir **** for the sake of it.

rgace · 25-02-2020 8:07pm

happyoutish wrote: »

Yes, not all but some, it is my best friends child. So I have been listening to a very frustrated mother and father for some weeks now

one day there was 10 points given for having a pen in their mouth and they were then told that they were defiant. Another day it was because they were getting something from their bag and another day for something dropping off their desk.

It is a while since I was a teenager but this sounds like the kind of ridiculous stuff teenagers come out with, I would be very surprised if there was not a lot more to it than the above.

rob316 · 25-02-2020 8:39pm

I'd tell your friend to teach their child school is absolutely unfair, some teachers aren't fit for purpose, they can take a dislike you. And you know what that's just life, how else will we ever prepare them for life ahead?

I was a bollox in school and every single hour I spent in detention was warranted. When my mam asked me why I got it I'd say "teacher doesn't like me" or "nothing". See what I'm getting at?

fed_u · 25-02-2020 9:11pm

rgace wrote: »

It is a while since I was a teenager but this sounds like the kind of ridiculous stuff teenagers come out with, I would be very surprised if there was not a lot more to it than the above.

These minor matters could be part of a bigger issue like trying to get attention or distracting others.. I had a student loose their pen, get up walk around their chair giggling a few times, get the attention of the rest of the class and then feign surprise when it's under their book. Que hysterics from the rest of the class..
While it's nothing major it's a disruption and warrants the student being written up!
Are the points online or taillied by a year head? - I would send the child to dentention and advise them to keep their head down in class etc. Parents can then quietly deal with the school / request points are recorded in journal etc and look for explanations and examples of the child's behaviour

sullivlo · 25-02-2020 9:30pm

fed_u wrote: »

These minor matters could be part of a bigger issue like trying to get attention or distracting others.. I had a student loose their pen, get up walk around their chair giggling a few times, get the attention of the rest of the class and then feign surprise when it's under their book. Que hysterics from the rest of the class..
While it's nothing major it's a disruption and warrants the student being written up!
Are the points online or taillied by a year head? - I would send the child to dentention and advise them to keep their head down in class etc. Parents can then quietly deal with the school / request points are recorded in journal etc and look for explanations and examples of the child's behaviour

I had a student bump into every desk on her way back from the bin today in an attempt to distract her classmates. They push the boundaries daily, and seemingly innocuous things could be part of a pattern in behaviour.

As for the issues mentioned in the OP:

Pen in mouth? Could be in a Science lab where chemicals are frequently used, meaning it is a safety risk. It could be a common event and the teacher gave behaviour points to discourage student from doing it again.

Getting something from a bag? Could be a copy, 20 minutes after class began and 15 minutes after you told them to write something in to said copy/read something on a particular page. Shows student could be inattentive. There’s nothing worse than saying “page 24, question 6” three times, writing it on the board and then a few minutes into the task having a hand go up saying “what page are we on?”

Dropping something from a desk? During a quiet time in class or a time where attention is needed and students are not writing or needing to do anything beyond read what is in front of them, someone knocking a maths set onto the floor and the ensuing distractions, could be a thing.

Ave Sodalis · 26-02-2020 12:16am

Effects wrote:

So why not just bring in the torn homework as proof. Even if it was true, you should have known the teacher wouldn't have believed it.

Because it was shredded and she would likely have given me detention for being cheeky when I handed her pieces of paper. No matter what I told her, she wouldn't have believed it so I was honest and told the truth.

Squeeonline · 26-02-2020 6:45am

You had better hope those points don't make it on to their !!!permanent record!!!. They'll never get a good job otherwise.

/s

weldoninhio · 26-02-2020 7:51am

happyoutish wrote: »

Well i can tell you this is not the case. Does very well in tests, class assessments etc. this child does want to work, and wants to go to college and knows the work that has to be put in to get there.

Thanks for your input

Ah you never mentioned you attended his classes.

weldoninhio · 26-02-2020 7:53am

Raisins wrote: »

Imagine getting detention as a teenager, coming home to tell your parents it wasn’t your fault (as every teenager has since time began), and your parents demand a full breakdown of your points and go to the department of education.

Talk about a massive escalation, parents must have no understanding of school.

Sounds very much like little Timothy can do no wrong.

happyoutish · 26-02-2020 8:13am

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ah you never mentioned you attended his classes.

Really? ðŸ™„ from the past 3 years record has been very good along with class tests etc.. never any problems.

Reading through this and while I appreciate everyone's opinion I didnt come on here to start anything I was simply looking for opinions to help some friends.. and it seems to have taken a different course..

Theses parents are not looking for a way out of detention .. you can understand that if your child has never been any trouble then all of a sudden has detention with little or no information given as to why.. you would be frustrated too.. if the child is being so disruptive in class why weren't they informed before hand so they could have addressed it... they have requested the information from the school and haven't received it because they will not give it. They are now awaiting to hear back from them after they have requested a meeting.

I was simply looking for opinions on what people think of the use of the points system...and any experience they may have had.. there doesnt seem to be guidelines for the teachers and they are quiet happy to throw points out as they please...

And this thread is in Galway city because it's a city school ðŸ™‚

I appreciate everyone's input...

Thank you ðŸ˜Š

weldoninhio · 26-02-2020 8:16am

happyoutish wrote: »

Really? ðŸ™„ from the past 3 years record has been very good along with class tests etc.. never any problems.

Reading through this and while I appreciate everyone's opinion I didnt come on here to start anything I was simply looking for opinions to help some friends.. and it seems to have taken a different course..

Theses parents are not looking for a way out of detention .. you can understand that if your child has never been any trouble then all of a sudden has detention with little or no information given as to why.. you would be frustrated too.. if the child is being so disruptive in class why weren't they informed before hand so they could have addressed it... they have requested the information from the school and haven't received it because they will not give it. They are now awaiting to hear back from them after they have requested a meeting.

I was simply looking for opinions on what people think of the use of the points system...and any experience they may have had.. there doesnt seem to be guidelines for the teachers and they are quiet happy to throw points out as they please...

And this thread is in Galway city because it's a city school ðŸ™‚

I appreciate everyone's input...

Thank you ðŸ˜Š

You were looking for opinions that the kid was an angel and that the school are at fault. You’ve railed against anyone that didn’t toe that line.

cj maxx · 26-02-2020 8:22am

I would have been close to the top of the chart if I had a points system at school. I actually would have aimed at that.

GreeBo · 26-02-2020 8:26am

I'd have no issue with the points system or the fact that it leads to detention, but I'd have a problem if the points are not being shared/communicated with the pupil or parents.
How are you supposed to do anything about it if they are not sharing the information?
Its like prison, is the purpose punishment or rehab?

riffmongous · 26-02-2020 8:52am

happyoutish wrote: »

Really? &#55357;&#56900; from the past 3 years record has been very good along with class tests etc.. never any problems.

Reading through this and while I appreciate everyone's opinion I didnt come on here to start anything I was simply looking for opinions to help some friends.. and it seems to have taken a different course..

Theses parents are not looking for a way out of detention .. you can understand that if your child has never been any trouble then all of a sudden has detention with little or no information given as to why.. you would be frustrated too.. if the child is being so disruptive in class why weren't they informed before hand so they could have addressed it... they have requested the information from the school and haven't received it because they will not give it. They are now awaiting to hear back from them after they have requested a meeting.

I was simply looking for opinions on what people think of the use of the points system...and any experience they may have had.. there doesnt seem to be guidelines for the teachers and they are quiet happy to throw points out as they please...

And this thread is in Galway city because it's a city school &#55357;&#56898;

I appreciate everyone's input...

Thank you &#55357;&#56842;

Boards isn't the place to ask in fairness, it's always automatically blame the young people/ more to the story bla bla bla

ChippingSodbury · 26-02-2020 9:05am

weldoninhio wrote: »

You were looking for opinions that the kid was an angel and that the school are at fault. You’ve railed against anyone that didn’t toe that line.

The OP didn't ask for opinions regarding the kid's behaviour, they asked for opinions regarding or experience of a points system. They also asked should evidence of how the kid received the points be available to a parent if it's sought.

You haven't offered opinions on any of the above.

SteM · 26-02-2020 9:05am

happyoutish wrote: »

Really? &#55357;&#56900; from the past 3 years record has been very good along with class tests etc.. never any problems.

Reading through this and while I appreciate everyone's opinion I didnt come on here to start anything I was simply looking for opinions to help some friends.. and it seems to have taken a different course..

Theses parents are not looking for a way out of detention .. you can understand that if your child has never been any trouble then all of a sudden has detention with little or no information given as to why.. you would be frustrated too.. if the child is being so disruptive in class why weren't they informed before hand so they could have addressed it... they have requested the information from the school and haven't received it because they will not give it. They are now awaiting to hear back from them after they have requested a meeting.

I was simply looking for opinions on what people think of the use of the points system...and any experience they may have had.. there doesnt seem to be guidelines for the teachers and they are quiet happy to throw points out as they please...

And this thread is in Galway city because it's a city school &#55357;&#56898;

I appreciate everyone's input...

Thank you &#55357;&#56842;

What age is the lad? Even when I was in school I saw good students go change when they reached a certain point in their life. He could be easily playing up in class to impress people, just because he was good in the past doesn’t mean that he's not bowing to peer pressure now.

Keyzer · 26-02-2020 9:12am

happyoutish wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering does anyone have a son/daughter attend a secondary school were there is a point system used as punishment and if so what are your thoughts on it?

I have a close friend whose child is going through a really rough time at school right now because of these points, two teachers in particular seem to be throwing out points willy nilly and it has really started to affect the young persons confidence and they have become really withdrawn. The school are refusing to give a list of the points to the parents as requested and they have now issued detention for the young person without providing the information requested.

Anyone have any experience or advice on these point systems in school? Thanks.

My advice is to tell your friend to tell their child to behave them self.

We used to get the heads boxed off us in school, for nothing. Some teachers were sound, some complete knobs. You knew where you stood with them and which ones you could push a bit.

I'm not saying we should revert to corporal punishment but kids need to understand that life aint a box of chocolates - they need to change their behavior if its causing problems, build up resilience and think for themselves instead of expecting mammy/daddy swooping in and saving them.

mc25 · 26-02-2020 9:12am

My school introduced a points system after I left (so I only heard about it from younger siblings) but it always seemed unfair to me that you could only be punished for bad behaviour and there was no counter balancing to reward for good.

JustAThought · 26-02-2020 9:14am

if the child is getting a lot of points perhaps their parent should do a bit of that - parenting. Discuss what lead up to them getting the point, what they were doing, how this compared to what others in the class were doing who did not get points, how they can adjust their behaviour or attitude in class to ensure they comply with the standard behaviour and do not acquire more points.

If teachers are intolerant of bad behaviour it is usually indicitive of bad behaviour.

weldoninhio · 26-02-2020 9:18am

mc25 wrote: »

My school introduced a points system after I left (so I only heard about it from younger siblings) but it always seemed unfair to me that you could only be punished for bad behaviour and there was no counter balancing to reward for good.

Good behaviour should be a given.

happyoutish · 26-02-2020 9:55am

weldoninhio wrote: »

You were looking for opinions that the kid was an angel and that the school are at fault. You’ve railed against anyone that didn’t toe that line.

I most certainly have not! Don't assume I'm this naive person who thinks the child is an angel, everyone has their flaws and most certainly not everyone is perfect. Some people on here have jumped to the conclusion that this child is misbehaving...I'm going on what i know of the child, 3rd year student, has never failed a test, has always had good report cards and good behavior until allegedly now. The parents are looking for answers, they can only go by what the child has told them and the school are not being responsive at all in giving them an explanation, its totally out of character for this child. as i said in a previous post they parent on "do the crime do the time" so they are not taking this lightly. and again, i was only looking for peoples opinion/experience if any on the point system. I wasn't asking people to be judge and jury and jumping to the conclusion that just because they got detention they HAD to have been disruptive etc. in class. lots of people jumping the gun here and assuming that!

But yeah, thanks for your input!

cj maxx · 26-02-2020 10:02am

Nosnon wrote: »

Mod-Absolutely no idea why this was dumped in AH. Its either a Galway or education issue. Back to whence you came from.

And I was just going to reply to the post about the kid getting detention but getting good grades. I was a fcucking Messer at school. A fair few detentions, principals office a few times every week. I scored 10/* in mocks as I didn't give a hoot.
But come the real exams I'd out do many studious kids. I wasn't bad, I was good craic though I deserved every punishment

Raisins · 26-02-2020 10:21am

happyoutish wrote: »

I most certainly have not! Don't assume I'm this naive person who thinks the child is an angel, everyone has their flaws and most certainly not everyone is perfect. Some people on here have jumped to the conclusion that this child is misbehaving...I'm going on what i know of the child, 3rd year student, has never failed a test, has always had good report cards and good behavior until allegedly now. The parents are looking for answers, they can only go by what the child has told them and the school are not being responsive at all in giving them an explanation, its totally out of character for this child. as i said in a previous post they parent on "do the crime do the time" so they are not taking this lightly. and again, i was only looking for peoples opinion/experience if any on the point system. I wasn't asking people to be judge and jury and jumping to the conclusion that just because they got detention they HAD to have been disruptive etc. in class. lots of people jumping the gun here and assuming that!

But yeah, thanks for your input!

What was the students explanation? You haven’t answered that...you know their report cards were good etc but you don’t what incident led to the points?

I’ve heard teachers make the universal home truth that you often can’t figure out a student until you meet the parents, then you go “right this makes sense”. They’d literally sigh and roll eyes in a meeting the same way their child does at school.

Ave Sodalis · 26-02-2020 10:32am

JustAThought wrote:

if the child is getting a lot of points perhaps their parent should do a bit of that - parenting. Discuss what lead up to them getting the point, what they were doing, how this compared to what others in the class were doing who did not get points, how they can adjust their behaviour or attitude in class to ensure they comply with the standard behaviour and do not acquire more points.

By the sounds of it, that's what the parents are attempting to do via the teachers, but they are not engaging.

JustAThought · 26-02-2020 10:42am

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

By the sounds of it, that's what the parents are attempting to do via the teachers, but they are not engaging.[/quote

As a parent you parent your child -stop blaming everyone and asking your ‘friend’s why your child is being punished for their bad behaviour -the answer is with the childs who sounds like they are being enabled and facilitated at every turn in their disruptive behaviour by their patents and their parents ‘friend’.

they should create sin bin for these kids outside the classroom and put them in it and require their parents to livestream them from their work and have to supervise them.Why should behaving children have their education disrupted by interruption and antics by spoilt badly behaved children and their parents who refuse to man up to their responsibilities and parent. Been going on for decades.

pure.conya · 26-02-2020 11:18am

witchgirl26 wrote: »

GDPR can't be used for everything. It relates to 2 personally identifying pieces of information. Points and what they relate to wouldn't necessarily fall under this.

An FOI request might get all the info the school has on the kid

pure.conya · 26-02-2020 11:24am

Wombatman wrote: »

This is a load of rubbish really. Stop acting the maggot and the points will stop most likely.

Detention is designed to affect ones mental well being BTW.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/attendance_and_discipline_in_schools/school_discipline.html

wow, please tell me you don't work at a school or have much to do with kids

pure.conya · 26-02-2020 11:27am

Raisins wrote: »

Imagine getting detention as a teenager, coming home to tell your parents it wasn’t your fault (as every teenager has since time began), and your parents demand a full breakdown of your points and go to the department of education.

Talk about a massive escalation, parents must have no understanding of school.

how did you get that from the OP, the kid maintains a certain teacher or group are firing the points out willy nilly. even if they weren't, if i wanted a list of the points accrued by my daughter and held by the school, but they wouldn't furnish them to me her legal guardian then I'd be fuming

pure.conya · 26-02-2020 11:35am

?Cee?view wrote: »

What chance has any child got in the real world if they learn from their parents that this is considered by them to be an appropriate reaction?

so parents should be teaching their kids that if they're being victimised by a teacher or teachers, they should just accept their fate and be subservient to their masters, kinda like it was decades ago in Ireland, just look how that worked out

pure.conya · 26-02-2020 11:36am

Wombatman wrote: »

What have we come to, that we have gone from a few disciplinary points and one detention, to lawsuits and court action in a couple of posts.

Common sense would suggest the parents call in to the school and have a chat.

they did and the principal told the parents that they will not hand over the list of points accrued

pure.conya · 26-02-2020 11:43am

Raisins wrote: »

Why are you so shocked that the breakdown mightn’t be available? This is a school setting : there’s literally hundreds of students in most secondary schools with multiple incidents happening every class that might or might not necessitate a point depending on the context. If speaking while a teacher is speaking or distracting the class gets a point (I don’t know if it would), does the teacher then: stop teaching, correct behaviour, note the point and then separately add it to a master record with an explanation so that’s a available in the even a parent wants to challenge? If a teacher has to hand out points to 3/4/5 students what happens to the lesson if that’s the process on each occasion. Correcting a student alone kills momentum before you even get into that bureaucracy.

Points system seems sensible at a departmental conference but challenging parents will bring a end to it fairly quickly. Just let the teacher do his / her job - it’s not a criminal summons - unless there’s multiple detentions or incidents I can’t see how a parent can consider those demands reasonable. Btw I’m not a teacher.

if a teacher gives out a point then it should be mandatory that they write up a small report, a few lines explaining the reason behind it, that will reduce the chances of the system being abused by horrible human beings, which some teachers are

Ave Sodalis · 26-02-2020 12:28pm

JustAThought wrote: »

As a parent you parent your child -stop blaming everyone and asking your ‘friend’s why your child is being punished for their bad behaviour -the answer is with the childs who sounds like they are being enabled and facilitated at every turn in their disruptive behaviour by their patents and their parents ‘friend’.

they should create sin bin for these kids outside the classroom and put them in it and require their parents to livestream them from their work and have to supervise them.Why should behaving children have their education disrupted by interruption and antics by spoilt badly behaved children and their parents who refuse to man up to their responsibilities and parent. Been going on for decades.

And how are they supposed to do that if they don't know what they're disciplining their child for? Regardless of how you feel about whether the child was in the wrong or not, there needs to be open lines of communication between the school and the parents and by the sounds of it, that's not happening. How are parents expected to help if they don't know what it is they're helping with?

TheBoyConor · 26-02-2020 12:32pm

JustAThought wrote: »

they should create sin bin for these kids outside the classroom and put them in it and require their parents to livestream them from their work and have to supervise them.

I'm sorry, but that is just a stupid idea. Videoing a live streaming children on the internet and require parents to login and look at them.

Any idea how much that would cost to set up and maintain?
Parents have better things to be doing than remotely watching their kids sitting in
a sin bin.
And schools have better things to be doing than messing about with all this IT related crap and all the GDPR and privacy mayhem that goes along with it.

Ridiculous idea.

It is also a form of institutional bullying aimed at humiliating the child. That is not acceptable.

Antares35 · 26-02-2020 12:37pm

pure.conya wrote: »

so parents should be teaching their kids that if they're being victimised by a teacher or teachers, they should just accept their fate and be subservient to their masters, kinda like it was decades ago in Ireland, just look how that worked out

Kind of extreme isn't it? Surely they need to accept that there are consequences to their actions. Doesn't mean they are subservient to "masters". I am pretty sure there is a large breadth of middle ground between institutional child abuse and parents having a conniption and considering legal action because their child was disciplined.

26-02-2020 1:11pm

People always look for someone to blame when the truth is staring them in the face. If a child is racking up points and detentions maybe the root cause is poor parenting.

26-02-2020 1:52pm

pure.conya wrote: »

if a teacher gives out a point then it should be mandatory that they write up a small report, a few lines explaining the reason behind it, that will reduce the chances of the system being abused by horrible human beings, which some teachers are

There is a lot more idiot parents than horrible teachers.

It's generally the most vocal parents on these matters that have the cheekiest pups of kids too. Teachers don't "pick" on kids they reprimand ones who misbehave but too many parents don't want to believe their little "angel" wold ever get in trouble.

pure.conya · 26-02-2020 2:55pm

Antares35 wrote: »

Kind of extreme isn't it? Surely they need to accept that there are consequences to their actions. Doesn't mean they are subservient to "masters". I am pretty sure there is a large breadth of middle ground between institutional child abuse and parents having a conniption and considering legal action because their child was disciplined.

the parents aren't considering legal action though, that was suggested on here alright, I'm sure the parents would just like to see the details of the points for their child, simple enough request really

Electric Sheep · 26-02-2020 5:14pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Parents have better things to be doing than remotely watching their kids sitting in
a sin bin.

Apparently they have better things to do than teach their kids how to behave as well.

happyoutish · 27-02-2020 3:58pm

This thread has just gone off on one really.

so here's an update....

My friend, (and yes it is about a friend, for those thinking this is about me, it actually is not, not that i should have to explain myself to anyone!!) got a call this morning from the school secretary and they are attending the school next week for a meeting.

As i have said before, they are not trying to get ANYONE out of detention, they just want to understand firstly how the points where assigned, why they were assigned and how many points their child has received. And if their child has become so disruptive (as some of you think), then why weren't they called since the child had no previous bad behavior issues in the school, it would be so out of character, you would assume that such a turn would warrant a phone call to the parents.

Thank you for all your input, it is appreciated even if some of you think that I was only looking for one answer... I wasn't, i was looking for some advice and people's experience. I respect everyone's opinion, some i felt were quite judgemental when none of you know this child, you jumped to the conclusion that this child was being disruptive or presenting bad behavior just because they had received points and perhaps you are right, but as i said before, going on previous behavior and knowing the child, it would be so out of character.

I will give an update when I get one. Thanks.

crossman47 · 27-02-2020 4:09pm

pure.conya wrote: »

if a teacher gives out a point then it should be mandatory that they write up a small report, a few lines explaining the reason behind it, that will reduce the chances of the system being abused by horrible human beings, which some teachers are

More paperwork to get in the way of teaching.

School using point system for punishment

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