GE Exit Poll 10 pm

golfball37 · 21-02-2020 1:16pm

robwen wrote: »

Who voted for Martin for taoiseach apart from FF?

Sean Canney, Noel Grealish, Cathal Berry and Michael McNamara.

Loafing Oaf · 21-02-2020 1:38pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Sean Canney, Noel Grealish, Cathal Berry and Michael McNamara.

Maybe signalling their willingness to support an FG/FF government

efanton · 21-02-2020 8:36pm

limnam wrote: »

I thought there might be before yesterday

But that clash between the two yesterday is hard to come back from I'd say.

My thinking on this is that it was a deliberate ploy by Mehole Martin himself.

there are lots of FF TD's and party members who would contemplate a coalition with SF. By putting himself in a position where it would be almost possible for him to come back from, he has in effect stuck two fingers up to a section of the FF party by saying if you want a FF/SF coalition you will have to find a new party leader first.

Basically he has burned bridges that some of his party might have considered using, and mostly for personal gain. He knows this is his last chance to be Taoiseach and he is going make damn sure there can be no challenge to his leadership or a potential coalition with FG. In order for FF to now consider any coalition with SF they will first have to replace their leader, and he knows this is the worst possible time for the FF party to consider such an action

The man that claims to be the biggest democrat in Ireland has in effect stifled democratic choice within his own party. Hypocrisy at its best.

flutered · 21-02-2020 9:26pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Ciara Kelly wrote an excellent article in the Sindo last week about this. FF are now playing with their very existence.

FF were once the party of everyone and every man. The party of the farmer, the working class Dub, the builder, and the small business owner. That sort of populism won't wash these days as SF have temporarily taken over that centre left posture that the electorate find attractive.

FG are the party who are elected when populism results in making the country bankrupt. Happened under Lynch, Haughey and Ahern lead governments. People tut and moan, and vote in FG to sort it out. I wouldn't even blame FF that much. They do good stuff when in government. Populism always catches up with you though. It's unsustainable. You cannot keep everyone happy.

FG can easily pivot back to a centre-right position. That's what their core vote wants tbh.

So now we have SF preaching populism on the left, and FG going back into opposition to preach the virtues of fiscal conservatism. Where is FF in all this? Floundering around in the middle liked a beached whale.

That's why FF want another election. The dealer has offered them another card.

can ff, or fg for that matter afford another election

Idbatterim · 21-02-2020 9:33pm

limnam wrote: »

Cancelling kids chemo.

That's indefensible.

Cracking job Simon Harris.

Why was it cancelled ?

maccored · 21-02-2020 9:55pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do you believe that every intelligence infiltration of an enemy force essentially means they are “fighting themselves”?

In a society where access to libraries is free, such ignorance is inexcusable.

Maybe you should check the library yourself. look up 'naive' or 'gullible' while you're there

limnam · 21-02-2020 11:01pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Why was it cancelled ?

Bed shortages.

criminal.

McMurphy · 22-02-2020 12:26pm

Soc Dems officially rule themselves out from any FFG coalition.

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1231165426211659776?s=19

GE2020 .2 is essentially a cert at this stage.

KrustyUCC · 22-02-2020 12:33pm

Still think it will be a FF/FG/Greens government formed

charlie14 · 22-02-2020 1:33pm

McMurphy wrote: »

Soc Dems officially rule themselves out from any FFG coalition.

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1231165426211659776?s=19

GE2020 .2 is essentially a cert at this stage.

Makes you wonder why the SD`s didn`t vote for Mary Lou as Taoiseach as she is the only other alternative.

Looking like Labour, the SD`s are sitting this one out.

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 1:37pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Makes you wonder why the SD`s didn`t vote for Mary Lou as Taoiseach as she is the only other alternative.

Looking like Labour, the SD`s are sitting this one out.

So the state of play is four political groupings parties still in opposition, three permanently. SF only have friends on the left, The Greens are open to making new friends and nobody else will talk to each other. Good hunting ground for a government!

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 1:55pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Makes you wonder why the SD`s didn`t vote for Mary Lou as Taoiseach as she is the only other alternative.

Looking like Labour, the SD`s are sitting this one out.

Want to hang on to the wedge and sling the mud while pocketing the taxpayers dollauh

efanton · 22-02-2020 2:19pm

McMurphy wrote: »

Soc Dems officially rule themselves out from any FFG coalition.

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1231165426211659776?s=19

GE2020 .2 is essentially a cert at this stage.

Well fair play to Catherine Murphy. Have always liked her, straight talking no nonsense sort of person that actually puts a lot of time and effort into her work.

Lets hope Eamonn Ryan has a bit of a backbone too.
Claims to be a republican and very much to the left of centre, will he turn the Greens into the new Labour. I hope not. I dont agree with all the Greens policies but it good that we have a party that keeps climate change issues and policies out front and in the open so that no government can conveniently forget about those issues.

So the worst possible outcome is the last resort.
FF/FG/and a whole load of independents.
In my opinion this is the worst possible combination. The independents have shown themselves to be mostly totally incompetent, FG will not want any massive spending on homes, and FF will go on a popularity spending splurge that will achieve very little in the long run as they have no real targets or goals.

Loafing Oaf · 22-02-2020 2:28pm

efanton wrote: »

So the worst possible outcome is the last resort.
FF/FG/and a whole load of independents.
In my opinion this is the worst possible combination. The independents have shown themselves to be mostly totally incompetent, FG will not want any massive spending on homes, and FF will go on a popularity spending splurge that will achieve very little in the long run as they have no real targets or goals.

quite possible if there was a deal with independents there wouldn't be any of them actually sitting in cabinet; they'd just be propping up the government in return for a few goodies for their constituencies.
I'm sure at the very least there will be serious efforts to woo the independents, so the Greens won't be thinking they have FF/FG over a barrel and all their demands will have to be met.

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 2:29pm

efanton wrote: »

Well fair play to Catherine Murphy. Have always liked her, straight talking no nonsense sort of person that actually puts a lot of time and effort into her work.

Lets hope Eamonn Ryan has a bit of a backbone too.
Claims to be a republican and very much to the left of centre, will he turn the Greens into the new Labour. I hope not. I dont agree with all the Greens policies but it good that we have a party that keeps climate change issues and policies out front and in the open so that no government can conveniently forget about those issues.

So the worst possible outcome is the last resort.
FF/FG/and a whole load of independents.
In my opinion this is the worst possible combination. The independents have shown themselves to be mostly totally incompetent, FG will not want any massive spending on homes, and FF will go on a popularity spending splurge that will achieve very little in the long run as they have no real targets or goals.

Murphy knows very well how to sidestep the real issues.

Sit on the sidelines and toss out enough populist mantra to ensure the wedge keeps coming.

Just be careful not to make any unpopular decisions which are for the good of the state.

Past masters at that skill......;)

efanton · 22-02-2020 2:52pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Murphy knows very well how to sidestep the real issues.

Sit on the sidelines and toss out enough populist mantra to ensure the wedge keeps coming.

Just be careful not to make any unpopular decisions which are for the good of the state.

Past masters at that skill......;)

It seems the only people that have any talent at all are not liked by FF and FG.

This nonsense about unpopular decision being good, is exactly why you are such a bad judge of character. An unpopular decision is almost invariable a bad decision.
Leo was tweeting every day of the week for the last 5 years trying to be popular, maybe that was a big mistake. A party leader having to wait for 5 counts to get elected must be embarrassing. I'm sure he will enjoy his Taoiseach's pension in the not too distant future

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 2:59pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Murphy knows very well how to sidestep the real issues.

Sit on the sidelines and toss out enough populist mantra to ensure the wedge keeps coming.

Just be careful not to make any unpopular decisions which are for the good of the state.

Past masters at that skill......;)

The parties that have made a mockery of coalition are FF FG.

No surprise a small party does not want to be yet another mudguard as FG FF pretend to present a government of change.

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 3:04pm

efanton wrote: »

It seems the only people that have any talent at all are not liked by FF and FG.

This nonsense about unpopular decision being good, is exactly why you are such a bad judge of character. An unpopular decision is almost invariable a bad decision.
Leo was tweeting every day of the week for the last 5 years trying to be popular, maybe that was a big mistake. A party leader having to wait for 5 counts to get elected must be embarrassing. I'm sure he will enjoy his Taoiseach's pension in the not too distant future

Talent... how do you evaluate that I’d be interested to know.

How do you evaluate your theory that “an unpopular decision is almost a
invariably a bad decision’

Sounds very strange to my way of thinking.

A party leader who has to wait for 5 counts must be embarrassing!!

My friend, if you judge a manager on popularity stakes , I have to laugh, you got a dude who is weak and populist.

Think the Bert.....:D...... Problem in Health Mr A.... Jaysus.. what do they want .... ehhh... give it to them

Ooooh roll on 2008........B ooooooo M

Get off the stage horse

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 3:09pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The parties that have made a mockery of coalition are FF FG.

No surprise a small party does not want to be yet another mudguard as FG FF pretend to present a government of change.

Correct Francie, they know keeping a nice tight rein on things duddn’t butther any parsnips.

They just sit on the sidelines and collect the taxpayers wedge, roaring and shouting about ‘change’ but making sure not to annoy the electorate with anything that might advance the general good outlook of the state.

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 3:13pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Correct Francie, they know keeping a nice tight rein on things duddn’t butther any parsnips.

They just sit on the sidelines and collect the taxpayers wedge, roaring and shouting about ‘change’ but making sure not to annoy the electorate with anything that might advance the general good outlook of the state.

or, that by not becoming the fall guy/gal, they might have extra seats the next time, to offer a coalition that does want to change things.

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 3:21pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

or, that by not becoming the fall guy/gal, they might have extra seats the next time, to offer a coalition that does want to change things.

Possibly Francie, but they need to remember that one way or t’other to run things one always has to annoy some sectors of the electorate.

They will always need to hold the line at some stage, can’t always please everybody.

That’s what they seem to be afraid of.

Yurt2 · 22-02-2020 3:22pm

Hard to credit that FG and the clever boys and girls are still trotting out the hurlers on the ditch stuff when they are running away from any scintilla of responsibility and drawing red lines everywhere.

They must be tripping on a bad batch of mushrooms to come up with a communications strategy so bad. This will be a case study for PR and communications gurus for decades to come.

How to lose an election and destroy a political party in a few short sneers.

efanton · 22-02-2020 3:22pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Talent... how do you evaluate that I’d be interested to know.

How do you evaluate your theory that “an unpopular decision is almost a
invariably a bad decision’

Sounds very strange to my way of thinking.

A party leader who has to wait for 5 counts must be embarrassing!!

My friend, if you judge a manager on popularity stakes , I have to laugh, you got a dude who is weak and populist.

Think the Bert.....:D...... Problem in Health Mr A.... Jaysus.. what do they want .... ehhh... give it to them

Ooooh roll on 2008........B ooooooo M

Get off the stage horse

Do you somehow think that I would ever be foolish enough to support FF?

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 3:25pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Possibly Francie, but they need to remember that one way or t’other to run things one always has to annoy some sectors of the electorate.

They will always need to hold the line at some stage, can’t always please everybody.

That’s what they seem to be afraid of.

Well they certainly annoyed Cowen today. He was vitriolic in conversation with Roisin Shortall who simply give her reasons (not trusting of FF and FG) so much so that he had to clarify to the presenter that it wasn't personal abuse.

efanton · 22-02-2020 3:28pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Hard to credit that FG and the clever boys and girls are still trotting out the hurlers on the ditch stuff when they are running away from any scintilla of responsibility and drawing red lines everywhere.

They must be tripping on a bad batch of mushrooms to come up with a communications strategy so bad. This will be a case study for PR and communications gurus for decades to come.

How to lose an election and destroy a political party in a few short sneers.

Not their fault that someone took Leo's Strategic Communications Unit away from him. Now Leo has to think for himself, and to be fair that must be challenging for him. Ask him a question and you get a prerecorded message that probably has nothing to do with the question, I swear that lad has a tape machine stuck up his behind

Brendan Bendar · 22-02-2020 4:04pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well they certainly annoyed Cowen today. He was vitriolic in conversation with Roisin Shortall who simply give her reasons (not trusting of FF and FG) so much so that he had to clarify to the presenter that it wasn't personal abuse.

Listening myself and while I wouldn’t have a great grá for Cowen, he was dead right in his assertion on Shorthall.

Stand up and be counted, these tools are scared shhidtless about what happened to Labour who took the hit from the entitlement brigade for putting the State first.

Brave decision but of course the entitlement brigade paid no heed to the big picture.

‘What’s in it for me’ was the main concern.

And the SDs are afraid to annoy anyone........

charlie14 · 22-02-2020 4:33pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well they certainly annoyed Cowen today. He was vitriolic in conversation with Roisin Shortall who simply give her reasons (not trusting of FF and FG) so much so that he had to clarify to the presenter that it wasn't personal abuse.

If it is okay for the SD`s not to wish to form a coalition with FF or FG because they do not trust them, then is that not also a good reason for FG and FF not to enter coalition with SF ?

efanton · 22-02-2020 4:34pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Listening myself and while I wouldn’t have a great grá for Cowen, he was dead right in his assertion on Shorthall.

Stand up and be counted, these tools are scared shhidtless about what happened to Labour who took the hit from the entitlement brigade for putting the State first.

Brave decision but of course the entitlement brigade paid no heed to the big picture.

‘What’s in it for me’ was the main concern.

And the SDs are afraid to annoy anyone........

Are you suggesting that if the tables were turned FF and FG wouldn't also be looking out for their own interests?

That's exactly what they are trying to do at the moment with this Drew Harris stunt and it looks like it going to spectacularly back fire on them.
Surely someone told them that trying to tar SF during the election was an own goal and they haemorrhaged votes because of it.

What ever chance they might have had of forming a FF/FG government is rapidly going up in smoke. probably the same smoke they use in their smoke and mirrors tricks. Very little substance or evidence of what they claim to be true when the smoke clears and a good objective look is taken.

Will the Greens be foolish enough to entertain them after this debacle? not likely in my opinion.

So time for Leo and Mehole to round up what independents they can buy off, but we know how unreliable and incompetent some of them can be.
How about Danny Healy-Rae as transport minister? They can replace the fool they currently have with yet another fool, but there will be CHANGE, he will want to issue permits to actually drink and drive.

Plumbthedepths · 22-02-2020 4:44pm

Catherine Murphy spent much of the 2011/2016 Dail holding the behaviour of FG up to the light , Siteserv anyone? Can't say I blame the Soc Dems for not trusting them . FF deserves no trust from anyone, history itself is enough.
GE 2.0 , the traditional big two will get no thanks from the electorate if it' becomes a reality.

Galwayguy35 · 22-02-2020 4:54pm

I wonder how many new SF voters even know what their policies are, I suspect most voted for them as a kind of protest vote and no other reason.

We only have to look to the other side of the border to see they are no great shapes in government at all.

GE Exit Poll 10 pm

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