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How are people not good with money?

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    #152
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,119 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Don’t know what the LOL is about.....

    Junior sales person will walk in door in my office on 40k+ basic with a 55/45 sales plan so 72k if they hit target and they are right out of college

    Do software development and your pushing close to 100k starting.....

    Maybe five years, graduates starting with a Dublin city centre software firm started on 23k.


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    #153
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    LOL! What planet are you on? This must be a p1ss take, surely.

    Absolutely nobody is anywhere near 100k starting, not even in software development. I know developers with 10-15 years' experience who are not even on that. We have talented junior devs coming from college starting on 35-40k, and that is still very decent compared to most industries.

    You are totally out of touch with reality.


    Best you tell these software developers they should have a look around.....


    Companies in Ireland are going around the World and paying for people to move to Ireland so they will work in software dev labs. Moving their families, paying for visas etc

    Senior software dev people would be well over 100k


    Even look on irishjobs and Limerick for software dev is 50-60k. Sligo is 35-45k. Only job in Dublin with wages listed is 65-75k



    Go to the big American companies and you can add 20-30k



    Anyone working for 35-40k as a software developer is getting the pi** taken out of them by their employer


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    #154
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    beejee wrote: »
    I know a couple of people in the general area of IT. Essentially, they got it to the field because of all the "big salaries".

    Now that theyve been in it a few years they say it's a very small handful of people that make anything near 100k, never mind "easily more than 100k".
    I would say the problem there is "general area of IT". Anyone and everyone can "work in IT". A porter in a hospital works in the medical field, but is hardly comparable to a consultant surgeon.

    As a whole, mainstream professional IT roles such as Software/DB/Systems/Cloud Engineer/Architect etc, automated testing or IT Management are good careers that pay decent money.

    However, the below is not true...
    kenmm wrote: »
    Anyone with a few years experience in IT in Dublin right now that isn't on at least 110 equivalent is doing it wrong.

    Practically nobody "a few years experience in IT" is on a six figure salary. For most, they hit it around the 10-15 year mark. Some will get there earlier; a tiny few will get there after 5 years.

    Of course, once you hit a certain salary, there is a lot more to a job than money, and many choose to earn 80K in an enjoyable role than 120K in a horrible one.
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Best you tell these software developers they should have a look around.....

    Companies in Ireland are going around the World and paying for people to move to Ireland so they will work in software dev labs. Moving their families, paying for visas etc

    Senior software dev people would be well over 100k

    Even look on irishjobs and Limerick for software dev is 50-60k. Sligo is 35-45k. Only job in Dublin with wages listed is 65-75k

    Go to the big American companies and you can add 20-30k

    Anyone working for 35-40k as a software developer is getting the pi** taken out of them by their employer

    Firstly, most of the "hiring abroad" is that they can hire for far lower wages. Sure, the cost of the visa and a plane ticket is nothing when they can pay them far less than an Irish employee and treat them like dirt. Once the person has completed their 2 years' residency, they start asking for a Irish salary and are told to f-off and the company goes out to try and recruit more offshore. All the consultancy firms do this as well as some of the large IT players. Not only does it flood the country with developers (many with poor/mediocre skills), but it is a terrible, unethical practice. Rule of thumb is - never work for a company where the majority (or even a large minority) of the staff are not Irish.

    Despite all the talk, there is no shortage of "IT people" in Ireland. There is, however, a massive shortage of companies that know how to attract, manage and retain IT staff.

    As per your own research in to Irishjobs, none are even close to 100K. That is not to say they don't exist - they do!, but are not the standard. In terms of "american" companies, if you are referring to Facebook/Google/Amazon, then yes, these guys pay a great salary. But that is why they stand out amongst the hundreds of other employers.


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    #155
    Titclamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭Titclamp


    Because the government wasn't good with it.


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    #156
    feelthepower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭feelthepower


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Best you tell these software developers they should have a look around.....


    Companies in Ireland are going around the World and paying for people to move to Ireland so they will work in software dev labs. Moving their families, paying for visas etc

    Senior software dev people would be well over 100k


    Even look on irishjobs and Limerick for software dev is 50-60k. Sligo is 35-45k. Only job in Dublin with wages listed is 65-75k



    Go to the big American companies and you can add 20-30k



    Anyone working for 35-40k as a software developer is getting the pi** taken out of them by their employer

    I agree with you with people that have 10 years experience should be hitting 75K-100K and graduates with a fantastic final year project could be starting 55K plus. My friends brother started on 50K with Amazon fresh out of college at 22 years of age.

    I'm not a programmer but a system administrator and changed jobs four times in the last 10 years and hitting 70K with bonuses. I'm not even that great at my job and it's not in Dublin or Cork or Galway.

    I think a lot of people's problem is that there staying with same company and not changing roles regularly to get on the higher pay scale. I'm not sure if it's because there afraid to change with a mortgage and kids to support.

    But yeah the money is definitely out there.


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    #157
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    Are you really asking this question?

    Thats like asking how does someone not know how to swim.

    Because they were never shown how to.

    Some people are bad with money due to their parents being bad with money and it was never a priority to sit them down and show them how to deal with money, how to save etc.

    And you just end up squandering money away on nothing and realising you don't have much left for the week.


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    #158
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    Sounds like a few people are not only bad at managing what they have, but suck at getting paid market rates as well..

    The market is completely bat sh!t crazy at the moment and anyone who is good in certain roles are getting paid very well for what they do..


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    #159
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    beejee wrote: »
    Very believable, all right :p

    I'd appreciate not being called out as a liar on a public forum, but I don't care that much tbh! I know for fact what people get paid and it is madness! 400 a day isn't a particularly good day rate in some fields and you don't need nearly as much experience as one would think..


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    #160
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    dotsman wrote: »
    Firstly, most of the "hiring abroad" is that they can hire for far lower wages. Sure, the cost of the visa and a plane ticket is nothing when they can pay them far less than an Irish employee and treat them like dirt. Once the person has completed their 2 years' residency, they start asking for a Irish salary and are told to f-off and the company goes out to try and recruit more offshore. All the consultancy firms do this as well as some of the large IT players. Not only does it flood the country with developers (many with poor/mediocre skills), but it is a terrible, unethical practice. Rule of thumb is - never work for a company where the majority (or even a large minority) of the staff are not Irish.

    Ok I will pick up on this, do you honestly think a person with a degree and is very intelligent will move to Ireland and not work for the going rate? As soon as he/she arrives they will quickly work it out, the company can try pin them to a contract but they would be able to break it straight away via the courts.



    People hire overseas and leave people overseas if they want to reduce the wages as the cost of living is a lot less.



    Rule of thumb you havent a breeze what you are talking about, I never heard such a load of nonsense before



    dotsman wrote: »
    Despite all the talk, there is no shortage of "IT people" in Ireland. There is, however, a massive shortage of companies that know how to attract, manage and retain IT staff.


    Again you show you haven't a clue or you dont understand the IT market. Ireland has a huge shortage of people. Not just in high paying jobs but across the whole IT market


    dotsman wrote: »
    As per your own research in to Irishjobs, none are even close to 100K. That is not to say they don't exist - they do!, but are not the standard. In terms of "american" companies, if you are referring to Facebook/Google/Amazon, then yes, these guys pay a great salary. But that is why they stand out amongst the hundreds of other employers.


    Do you realize how many american companies are in Ireland? last count it was circa 1,000.


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    #161
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    feelthepower wrote: »
    I agree with you with people that have 10 years experience should be hitting 75K-100K and graduates with a fantastic final year project could be starting 55K plus. My friends brother started on 50K with Amazon fresh out of college at 22 years of age.

    I'm not a programmer but a system administrator and changed jobs four times in the last 10 years and hitting 70K with bonuses. I'm not even that great at my job and it's not in Dublin or Cork or Galway.

    I think a lot of people's problem is that there staying with same company and not changing roles regularly to get on the higher pay scale. I'm not sure if it's because there afraid to change with a mortgage and kids to support.

    But yeah the money is definitely out there.


    System admin used to be the big bucks, its harder to drive the big wages


    If you are walking out of uni now with Security or software dev then you are hitting the market at the right time.......


    Staying with the same company can have advantages as well if you can drive your salary increase on a yearly basis, with the IT market been volatile swapping often can also be a disadvantage. Companies are now wise to people working for 2 years, getting trained up and then f**king off.



    It depends of course on skills but the early 2000's with people working for 12-18 month per company is decreasing


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    #162
    feelthepower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭feelthepower


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    System admin used to be the big bucks, its harder to drive the big wages


    If you are walking out of uni now with Security or software dev then you are hitting the market at the right time.......


    Staying with the same company can have advantages as well if you can drive your salary increase on a yearly basis, with the IT market been volatile swapping often can also be a disadvantage. Companies are now wise to people working for 2 years, getting trained up and then f**king off.



    It depends of course on skills but the early 2000's with people working for 12-18 month per company is decreasing

    Yea Sys admin work minus cloud computing is starting to quieten down a bit, a lot of the processes are not as complex as they used to be and wages arn't great.

    A lot of companies now are just hiring external companies to migrate their systems to the cloud and paying a yearly rate for monitoring and maintenance.

    Started my Azure and AWS certs as that's the way things are going.


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    #163
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    feelthepower wrote: »
    Yea Sys admin work minus cloud computing is starting to quieten down a bit, a lot of the processes are not as complex as they used to be and wages arn't great.

    A lot of companies now are just hiring external companies to migrate their systems to the cloud and paying a yearly rate for monitoring and maintenance.

    Started my Azure and AWS certs as that's the way things are going.

    Arkphire just bought Trilogy, get in with companies like that which will run private clouds for companies is the only way forward...give it 5 years and no companies or very few will run day to day IT themselves


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    #164
    feelthepower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭feelthepower


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Arkphire just bought Trilogy, get in with companies like that which will run private clouds for companies is the only way forward...give it 5 years and no companies or very few will run day to day IT themselves

    I don't think even if my salary doubled to 140K I would go back to Dublin even though I would love to be working for one of the big tech companies up there.

    Houses in my area are 150K to 200K. There a fortune in Dublin for something decent


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    #165
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Project drivers such as BAs and PMs are easily pulling in 100k.

    I worked with a PM not so long ago whose rate was 1100 a day. No degree, just experience and certificates.


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    #166
    Fireball81
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    Boards (or at least this thread) must have a higher percentage of people in IT reading and replying on it than say lower paid retail and hospitality sectors etc based on the salary numbers at the start of careers being bandied around here.


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    #167
    feelthepower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭feelthepower


    Fireball81 wrote: »
    Boards (or at least this thread) must have a higher percentage of people in IT reading and replying on it than say lower paid retail and hospitality sectors etc based on the salary numbers at the start of careers being bandied around here.

    If you don't know, now you know


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    #168
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Fireball81 wrote: »
    Boards (or at least this thread) must have a higher percentage of people in IT reading and replying on it than say lower paid retail and hospitality sectors etc based on the salary numbers at the start of careers being bandied around here.

    Who do you think is buying up all the houses around Dublin?


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    #169
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Ok I will pick up on this, do you honestly think a person with a degree and is very intelligent
    Who said they were intellignet? Some are, some aren't very.
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    will move to Ireland and not work for the going rate? As soon as he/she arrives they will quickly work it out, the company can try pin them to a contract but they would be able to break it straight away via the courts.
    It's not about contracts, nor would it go to court???

    You need to understand how visas, work permits and residency works in Ireland.

    After they achieve their 2 year's residency, they ask for a better salary and told no, there is a queue of people behind them waiting to come to Ireland. And so they leave and another is brought over.
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    People hire overseas and leave people overseas if they want to reduce the wages as the cost of living is a lot less.
    Many (badly-run) companies do that as well.

    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Rule of thumb you havent a breeze what you are talking about, I never heard such a load of nonsense before

    Again you show you haven't a clue or you dont understand the IT market. Ireland has a huge shortage of people. Not just in high paying jobs but across the whole IT market

    As someone with 15 years industry experience, worked in many organisations, hired more people than I can remember, interviewed many times that, mentored and managed countless people, highly respected amongst those who I have worked with and discussed this topic over and over again with a vast array of people working across the industry with a variety of experiences, I believe I have more than "a breeze".
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Do you realize how many american companies are in Ireland? last count it was circa 1,000.
    Which is my point. While Google, Facebook, Amazon and a few others are at the higher end of the salary spectrum, they are far from the normality of most "american" companies in terms of salaries.


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    #170
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    kenmm wrote: »
    I'd appreciate not being called out as a liar on a public forum, but I don't care that much tbh! I know for fact what people get paid and it is madness! 400 a day isn't a particularly good day rate in some fields and you don't need nearly as much experience as one would think..

    I apologise for the insinuation, but I didn't directly mean YOU are a liar.

    Mores that I've heard these tales multiple times. One time, in particular, I was in a room with a lot of people in IT, some students also.

    Heard the usual "massive money, I heard of a bloke..." sort of thing. I interjected and asked all of them do they KNOW anyone making 100 and 200 grand, or was it all just hearsay.

    Not one of them, a decent cross section I think, actually knew anyone in IT making a ton of money. All second and third hand rumours, basically.

    I'm sceptical of this unicorn until I actually see it myself, or someone I believe can verify it.

    Someone above gave a more believable rundown, that after 15+ years experience and yardda yardda, yeah it can be true.

    I think it does a serious disservice to people, especially those considering going to college, to paint "easy money". Not YOU, just in general.


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    #171
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    beejee wrote: »
    I think it does a serious disservice to people, especially those considering going to college, to paint "easy money". Not YOU, just in general.

    ye and sorry - not actually saying its easy money.

    But it is such a messed u p market and there is such a wide range.

    I know 2-3 year "experienced devs on between 350 and 450 a day. I know 12 year experiences devs that are on not much more.. and a lot on way less!

    I am trying to say its true and I know people that don't bullsh!t. The ones that don't seem to get paid as well are the ones that go to IT in general because they heard it was good $$... they guys making the money tend to be a combination of people interested in the field and good at negotiation...


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    #172
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    kenmm wrote: »
    IT contracting would easily take you over 100k as a salary. And plenty of savy junior devs would get decent rates in specialised fields..

    Yes, and contracting pays well specifically because you need a specialised skillset and lots of experience, which are very rarely found in people who have just left college.


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    #173
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Best you tell these software developers they should have a look around.....


    Companies in Ireland are going around the World and paying for people to move to Ireland so they will work in software dev labs. Moving their families, paying for visas etc

    Senior software dev people would be well over 100k


    Even look on irishjobs and Limerick for software dev is 50-60k. Sligo is 35-45k. Only job in Dublin with wages listed is 65-75k



    Go to the big American companies and you can add 20-30k



    Anyone working for 35-40k as a software developer is getting the pi** taken out of them by their employer

    How are you not getting that there's a massive difference between an experienced developer and someone right out of college? People pay the big bucks for people who can come in and be productive and add lots of value right away, not someone who has absolutely no real world work experience at all. A lot of the time for the juniors is spent on training and learning and development.

    Nobody is paying 100K to move a 22-year-old junior developer to Ireland.


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    #174
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Yes, and contracting pays well specifically because you need a specialised skillset and lots of experience

    That is often the misconception, yes (understandably).

    I don't mean straight from college - these days 2-3 years will get you a few hundred a day as a specialist (and I agree this is not a specialist..)

    The best ones are the big consultancy firms that will take grads on low salaries and bill clients for ~1k per day!


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    #175
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    How are you not getting that there's a massive difference between an experienced developer and someone right out of college? People pay the big bucks for people who can come in and be productive and add lots of value right away, not someone who has absolutely no real world work experience at all. A lot of the time for the juniors is spent on training and learning and development.

    Nobody is paying 100K to move a 22-year-old junior developer to Ireland.

    Did you read the thread or just quote my post?

    I was replying to a person who seemingly hires and fires, mentors and manages as well...excellent person, they said a person with 10-15 years experience is not even close to 100k

    Then you quote me saying I am wrong but an experienced software developer would be getting paid well?

    I never said someone straight out of college would be on 100k, I said they wouldn’t be on 35k which is what the other poster said....

    So I’m confused, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?


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    #176
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    antimatterx wrote: »
    I was watching the show on RTE "How to be good with money" and it struck me for the first time that some people are absolutely stupid with money.

    How can people enjoy just throwing their money away? You spend a lot of time working hard to earn it, and you waste it.

    I don't exactly make a lot of money (24, making 32K), but the first thing I do when I get paid is save as much as possible.

    Because people like to live.


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    #177
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Yes, and contracting pays well specifically because you need a specialised skillset and lots of experience, which are very rarely found in people who have just left college.

    I don’t think you understand the world of IT contracting


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    #178
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,527 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    I've come to the conclusion that social
    media in all it's forms in not good for your self esteem. I now feel like a dirty smelly and poor, political dissident degenerate after reading the threads on here.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #179
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Montage of Feck wrote: »
    I've come to the conclusion that social
    media in all it's forms in not good for your self esteem. I now feel like a dirty smelly and poor, political dissident degenerate after reading the threads on here.

    Pinch of salt with any of the opinions here, I could post that I save this and that and I'm unreal at saving plus I thought myself to budget perfectly and have a chunk of savings but I don't haha see how easy it is, don't fret :D


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    #180
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Did you read the thread or just quote my post?

    I was replying to a person who seemingly hires and fires, mentors and manages as well...excellent person, they said a person with 10-15 years experience is not even close to 100k

    Then you quote me saying I am wrong but an experienced software developer would be getting paid well?

    I never said someone straight out of college would be on 100k, I said they wouldn’t be on 35k which is what the other poster said....

    So I’m confused, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

    You seem to be constantly comparing apples and oranges.

    There's nothing at all weird about a 35K salary for a junior developer who is still being trained and learning on the job. There's also nothing unusual at all for someone with 15 years' experience not to be hitting 100K. Do people make that? Yes, especially contracting. Is it typical? I wouldn't say so. I know lots of people on 70-80Kish who are happy enough with that because they don't want stress and overtime.

    You're also forgetting that contracting pays well specifically because you don't get any of the employee benefits like pensions, sick pay, paid holidays, etc. They are also worth a lot in monetary terms.


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    #181
    Fireball81
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    Montage of Feck wrote: »
    I've come to the conclusion that social
    media in all it's forms in not good for your self esteem. I now feel like a dirty smelly and poor, political dissident degenerate after reading the threads on here.

    Just because it's on social media doesn't mean it's true...


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